How to deal with arseh*le siblings?

[dragonfire13]

Apologies for the long-winded rant here.

 

The members of my immediate family do not get along - however, when our brothers got married and started having kids, my sister and I have made an effort to go round regularly and have a developed a relationship with their wives and kids, to the point where the wives have confided in us and we've lended an ear and vice versa, as close women do.

 

Anyway, recently my sister in law did something to offend my sister and I. She eventually reached out so we went round, but I dont think she thought we would call her out on the behaviour. But when we did try to discuss, in a calm manner (because how do you expect to resolve issues if you don't discuss things with someone you're meant to be close to), her husband (our brother) starts getting involved, essentially with the attitude saying who gives a f*ck that you took offense, no-one cares if you come round etc.

 

Now I'm not saying we're god's gift, or that our company is great, but his wife does actually like us to come round because she doesn't have a lot of friends, and my sister and I have always made the effort to see their kids and also looked out for her and backed her corner (she came here as an immigrant and my mother, her mother-in-law, gave her hell due to a lot of cultural rubbish and we just set our mum straight)

 

I don't even know why he was getting involved, it's not like we were ganging up on his wife or shouting/abusing her, we actually just played with their kids and wasn't even talking to her that much but then when she asked why we were being "weird" and not our usual chatty selves, we brought up the problem.

 

His own wife was telling him to shut up as he didn't get what we were talking about. But we ended up getting into a full blown row with him after that, and being the pathetic loser he is, he started insulting both my sister and I on a personal level, with narrow-minded cultural rubbish that I'm pretty sure is recycled from my dopey-arse mother (just because we're unmarried and go out with our friends, we are automatically whores who go out drinking with men...erm ok)

 

Trust me, I could have so insulted him back on a low, petty level because their family lifestyle would lead many to judge, but I ended up just laughing because the insults were so petty coming from a grown man. Especially when he was trying to convince me his insults were correct when I asked what the f-ck he was on about (I think I would know if I spent my time drinking or whoring around with men)..he was like "I KNOW what you do!".

 

After that, my sister and I don't really want much more to do with them as it just feels like a slap in the face. With family, you want to let bygones be bygones and not hold a grudge, but what my sister in law initially did proved there was little value in our efforts, and if you can't discuss issues without being insulted, it's time to cut them out.

 

Is that reasonable?

Edited October 10, 2014 by dragonfire13

[Dontfindme]

Your brother sounds like he has issues. Can you guys resolve whatever seems to be underneath the surface? Or is he normally a dick?

I'm not sure what your SIL did to insult you, but based off your story it seems like she is somewhat reasonable.

 

I don't see why you guys need to drop your SIL and her kids- just invite them over if possible, and meet up when your judgmental brother isn't around.

[amaysngrace]

Life's too short to hold a grudge. I wouldn't go around there for a while though, at least until you get over what he said to you and are willing to let bygones be bygones yourself.

[evanescentworld]

Something needs resolving, because with Christmas coming (and I realise we may be talking different cultural habits here) it's still a universal time for Peace on Earth, Joy to the World and Love for all Mankind' and all that...

 

Could you write his wife (your SiL) a letter?

How would she take a peace-offering in writing?

 

And when I say 'peace offering' I'm suggesting that you say you really didn't want everything to blow up that way, you're sorry it had that result, and

surely as women and "sisters under the skin" you ladies at least, are mature and adult enough to deal with this on a sensible level...?

"Could we put all this behind us, and get on , and see if we can't find some common ground?" kind of thing....

 

I must admit, I have a sibling with whom I don't get on, but I must accept some part of responsibility for the discord. However, without going into any great detail, my misdemeanour was governed by circumstances and not deliberately orchestrated, therefore my sibling's hostile attitude and simmering resentment means I just don't talk any more, as far as is possible.

[Ronni_W]

With family, you want to let bygones be bygones and not hold a grudge, but what my sister in law initially did proved there was little value in our efforts, and if you can't discuss issues without being insulted, it's time to cut them out.

 

Is that reasonable?

No, it's not reasonable. Your brother was unreasonable. From what I can tell, your sis-in-law was willing to have the calm, open, honest discussion that would have helped to mend the rift between you, her and your sister. To cut-out her and your nieces/nephews because your brother is unreasonable and has under-developed and/or unexamined beliefs/stereotypes in his head, does not seem reasonable to me.

 

When it comes to family celebrations and get-togethers, I don't know the best solution; but, for other times, perhaps plan on visits when he is not around, or invite her/them to your home where you at least have more authority and autonomy than "under his roof" so to speak. It would be reasonable to cut HIM out, as far as possible...but not to lump the rest of them in with that action.

 

Best of luck.

[Tayla]

Disassociation. Are these children not your nephews and nieces? Odd that you refer to them as "their" or "His" kids. Sounds like you refrain from acknowledging you are the aunts.

Try this next time. "Hi , I am the aunt to (insert child/ren name), and since they reside here, lets be civil and think how this chat is coming off as unpleasant. The Children need to hear adults disagree and not adult ranting. "

In reading this post, it seems that you were put in a tough spot in being hospitable to the SIL and trying to keep your brother at bay. Do you and Your brother have unresolved issues? Perhaps you and He can go out away (from the house) and discuss it or at the minimum come to an agreement of when visiting, what the rules can be. There is room for compromise, yet it is his abode, so as a guest, its important to regard that environment.

[dragonfire13]

Thank you for your responses. I do have an extremely close relationship with my nieces and nephews, and for a while their mothers - it's my brothers who act like their wives/children are their possessions so anytime you have a disagreement with him, you're told not to associate with their entire family.

 

We just don't get along as siblings, that is very clear, but being the trashy individuals that they are, they just take it to another level. It's not just my brother, my mother is the same. You cannot reason with them, it's like talking to a child. Their narrow minded views turn a discussion into a full-blown jerry springer style slagging match. Sure, I'm human so I retaliate when I'm being insulted, but I don't take it to their petty level and their insults are often irrelevant to what was probably a minor issue in the first place.

 

That is the situation with my sibling. In regards to my sister in law, there is little effort on her part - most attempts to see her and my nieces/nephews have been down to us going round to their house. This has now led to arguments that escalate with my brother on a few occasions now, and since it's not healthy to be arguing in front of children, I'm more than happy to keep my distance.

 

I will miss my nieces and nephews dearly, and when we don't go round we are told they ask for us, which would give you an indication of our relationship with them. I do also worry about my SIL because I can imagine she will be increasingly lonely now...I did find an English class for her to join to hopefully make new friends so perhaps she will take my advice.

 

The thing is, I'm constantly going out of my way to do things like that for her, as you do for those you care about....yet looking back, it's rarely reciprocated. That's mine and my sister's issue with her, after a recent incident where her lack of consideration was really surprising given how close we thought we were. But as mentioned, we've now realised our efforts really aren't appreciated.

 

In retrospect, I think perhaps my brother's attitude was jealousy/possessiveness manifesting itself because we seem to have a close bond with what he classes as "his" family - that's why he felt a need to butt-in and talk for his wife, when we were just talking amongst ourselves as women.

 

It seems a shame to disassociate from the entire family, but I can't continue to make the effort with people who don't really care. My SIL may not outright insult us the way her husband does, but her indifference says it all, which was the issue in the first place.

 

Perhaps this is anger speaking, but I feel stupid thinking that we were a lot closer than we actually were, and for having made the effort to consistently see them having now been told to get lost.

 

My SIL is more reasonable than my brother, but I feel stupid chasing after people in an effort to maintain a relationship, when it feels one-sided. Also, this effort has put me in a situation where I'm either walking on eggshells or I'm open to being insulted. I just can't do it anymore.

Edited October 11, 2014 by dragonfire13

[Ronni_W]

Their narrow minded views turn a discussion into a full-blown jerry springer style slagging match. Sure, I'm human so I retaliate when I'm being insulted

No, retaliating when you're insulted does NOT make you human...it only makes you the kind of human who retaliates when insulted. As a human, you have the free will to choose to NOT be that kind of human.

In regards to my sister in law, there is little effort on her part

I do not know - but you will have a good sense of it - but it's possible that given what I am interpreting as "right and proper and appropriate" for her culture, she may just feel helpless and disempowered in the situation. It may be accurate or it may be just her distorted perception that there really isn't anything else that she can do; no other way for her to act or react. She may think or know that if she does put in effort, it'll piss-off her husband and make her life otherwise untenable.

I will miss my nieces and nephews dearly, and when we don't go round we are told they ask for us, which would give you an indication of our relationship with them. I do also worry about my SIL because I can imagine she will be increasingly lonely now...I did find an English class for her to join to hopefully make new friends so perhaps she will take my advice.

It is nice of you to have gone above and beyond, but her loneliness is not your appropriate concern or business. It is okay to just leave her to her own adult devices, decisions, choices and the consequences of those.

 

I am in a similar situation with my step-grandchildren. Whenever they visit they ask for a sleep-over. It breaks my heart (and my b/f's, their grandpa's heart). But it is out of our control because we are not their parents. We just have to suck-up our own thoughts, feelings, opinions and desires including about the kind of relationship we'd *love* to have with our grandchildren...and, apparently, they wouldn't mind having with us.

The thing is, I'm constantly going out of my way to do things like that for her, as you do for those you care about....yet looking back, it's rarely reciprocated.

Yeah...you have to stop going out of your way. I don't think that it's necessarily not appreciated. In fact, it may be more appreciated than you will ever know, or than she may ever feel free and comfortable enough to express. But, if you're doing things that actually just generate, sustain and/or exacerbate your own feelings of resentment at being unappreciated, then you're not being good or kind to yourself or to your sis-in-law.

, after a recent incident where her lack of consideration was really surprising given how close we thought we were.

How close you (and your sister) FELT to her is how close you (and your sister) were. Period. Nothing stupid about your feelings or how you perceived and felt about the relationship. The degree of feelings may not have been reciprocated...SHE may not have felt as close...but, that could have been because YOU are more independent and autonomous and have freedom over your feelings...freedom that she does not have or, at minimum, thinks-believes or perceives she does not have.

, but I can't continue to make the effort with people who don't really care.

Well...you CAN...but it might not be the wisest, most self-loving or self-protecting thing to do, especially if your doing it only builds your own anger, resentment, negative opinion of self or your sis-in-law.

Perhaps this is anger speaking, but I feel stupid thinking that we were a lot closer than we actually were, and for having made the effort to consistently see them having now been told to get lost.

It doesn't actually come across as anger. Disappointment and loss and sadness, maybe.

It's like...sometimes I want to get pissed-off at our grand-children's parents. But at the end of it, I get that the situation just is what it is. And, even though it is more in my 'wheel house' to admit to anger than sadness...doesn't change that I'm just sad about it. The stupidity and loss of relationships and good stuff of which the children (and their grown-ups) are being deprived.

 

I wish that grown-ups could be more adult...if only for the sake of the children.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ronni_W
spelling and assorted other garbage

[dragonfire13]

Thank you Ronni_W for taking the time to respond in such detail - definitely food for thought and some wise words there, and I do hope the situation with your step-grand children improves - it seems like you are caught in a similar position between wanting a relationship with the children whilst not having the best relationship with their parents.

 

No, retaliating when you're insulted does NOT make you human...it only makes you the kind of human who retaliates when insulted. As a human, you have the free will to choose to NOT be that kind of human.

 

I generally haven't been retaliating to the insults by insulting back, my retaliation has been trying to get my point across. This tends to make the situation worse however, because I'm dealing with people with a limited understanding about things. So I feel like maybe the best thing would have been to keep my mouth shut and let things go. But why should I have to? Just because they don't have the maturity to have a discussion without resorting to insults? It's like I'm being censored! I have a right to voice my opinion, and it doesn't warrant being insulted on a personal level.

 

Whether that's a right view or not I don't know, but it's how I feel.

 

It's like say, for example, you have relatives who are racist and you don't agree, and they come out with the most ignorant comment going. (I'm not saying this is what has happened, I'm using it as an example). Do you call them out on it, or do you keep your mouth shut to keep the peace? If I'm going to have to walk on eggshells when people say/do stupid things, I'd rather just not have a relationship with people like that. It's sad that I may not be able to see their kids as a consequence, but I have to think about my own happiness. Plus, at one point, along with the abuse hurled at me sister and I, and being told to get out of the house, he tried to shove us as well, until his wife intervened and pushed him back. My brother is just a childish trashy loser with narrow minded views that are irritating to witness.

 

I would like to thank you and the other posters however, as due to your explanations, I feel like I have a better understanding of the position my sister in law is and I'd really like to thank you all for that - I was fully willing to no longer have anything to do with her due to what I felt was indifference, but I feel like perhaps in the future this is one relationship that can be salvaged, though how to go about that without having anything to do with my brother remains to be seen.

Edited October 14, 2014 by dragonfire13