Robert Z Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I thought this point deserves its own thread. It had never occurred to me before. As soon as it did it made me laugh because in all of my years of religious exposure, no one ever made this observation. According to the bible, "God" isn't God's name. His name is YHWH. So using expressions like "god dammit" are not a violation of the 4th commandment. His name isn't "God". That is a title. Link to post Share on other sites
Darren2013 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It is not a violation of the 4th commandment because the 4th commandment has to do with the sabbath. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Maybe it's better interpreted as "calling upon God in vain." The idea as I understand it is that we shouldn't be slinging the power of the Almighty around wasting it on trivial things. From that perspective, it's not really important what name you use. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Maybe it's better interpreted as "calling upon God in vain." The idea as I understand it is that we shouldn't be slinging the power of the Almighty around wasting it on trivial things. From that perspective, it's not really important what name you use. So you think we should interpret it instead of taking the actual words into account. Sounds like religion to me! I guess God has a hard time saying what he means. 3rd commandment. I almost got it from memory! Edited October 12, 2014 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) So you think we should interpret it instead of taking the actual words into account. Sounds like religion to me! I guess God has a hard time saying what he means. 3rd commandment. I almost got it from memory! I guess it would be easier to get it right if the Bible was written in legalese. The way it is, it's too easy for believers and disputers both to find loopholes. But in case you're an atheist, you can consider yourself free to use "God", "Jehovah", and all other Almighty aliases in any way that satisfies you. There shall be no Holy retribution. In case you aren't, you certainly wouldn't want to irritate the Lord by wordsmithing Him. Edited October 12, 2014 by johan 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) According to the bible, "God" isn't God's name. His name is YHWH. So using expressions like "god dammit" are not a violation of the 4th commandment. His name isn't "God". That is a title. Yes, I see what you are saying. Originally, taking the Lord's name in vain meant you swore to do something by God, and then did not do so. You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. A lot of people in Jesus' time were coming up with technical ways to determine what exactly was and what was not the correct way to provide an oath. Jesus clarified this issue for us: “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. Jesus said, not to swear by anything at all, but let your yes be yes and your no be no. James further clarifies: But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation. Edited October 12, 2014 by TheFinalWord 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I guess it would be easier to get it right if the Bible was written in legalese. The way it is, it's too easy for believers and disputers both to find loopholes. But in case you're an atheist, you can consider yourself free to use "God", "Jehovah", and all other Almighty aliases in any way that satisfies you. There shall be no Holy retribution. In case you aren't, you certainly wouldn't want to irritate the Lord by wordsmithing Him. What you call wordsmithing I call taking it as it is said. You are using circular logic. You are assuming that the popular interpretation is the correct interpretation and then using that as your argument that it's correct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Yes, I see what you are saying. Originally, taking the Lord's name in vain meant you swore to do something by God, and then did not do so. You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. A lot of people in Jesus' time were coming up with technical ways to determine what exactly was and what was not the correct way to provide an oath. Jesus clarified this issue for us: “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. Jesus said, not to swear by anything at all, but let your yes be yes and your no be no. James further clarifies: But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation. This is talking about swearing, as in taking an oath. This does not refer to saying something because you smash your thumb with a hammer. As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with the discussion. How does this relate to using God's name, YHWH, as opposed to using the word "god" in an of itself. When I say Zeus was a greek god, is that blasphemy? Edited October 12, 2014 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) This is talking about swearing, as in taking an oath. This does not refer to saying something because you smash your thumb with a hammer. Yes, that was my point The original context of what taking the Lord's name in vain meant via the third commandment, was swearing an oath to the Lord and then not fulfilling it. Edited October 12, 2014 by TheFinalWord 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yes, that was my point The original context of what taking the Lord's name in vain meant via the third commandment, was swearing an oath to the Lord and then not fulfilling it. Oh! I didn't expect ANYONE to agree with me. My bad! It really throws me when that happens. LOL!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 What you call wordsmithing I call taking it as it is said. You are using circular logic. You are assuming that the popular interpretation is the correct interpretation and then using that as your argument that it's correct. Is it 1:40am where you are? If so, this is deeper than my mind delves after a long day and evening prior. I'm impressed* I feel weird about using God's name to condemn something/someone. Because what if he does?! ...and what if it was your only hammer you had Him damn? Or Finger?!!? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Is it 1:40am where you are? If so, this is deeper than my mind delves after a long day and evening prior. I'm impressed* It is my curse. According to my sb my mind never stops, not even when I'm sleeping. The fact is that I've done some of my best work at 3AM. I find that consciousness just gets in the way. BTW, no, not as late here. I'm far West of you. But I have sworn an oath to not reveal my precise location. I feel weird about using God's name to condemn something/someone. Because what if he does?! ...and what if it was your only hammer you had Him damn? Or Finger?!!? Ah, but "God" isn't his name! And I would bet he allows for tempers. Even Jesus got mad! Edited October 12, 2014 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It is my curse. According to my sb my mind never stops, not even when I'm sleeping. The fact is that I've done some of my best work at 3AM. I find that consciousness just gets in the way. Ah, but "God" isn't his name! And I would bet he allows for tempers. Even Jesus got mad! AHAHahaha! Well it's definitely passed my bedtime, I'm usually never awake this late... God may Not be His name but wouldn't you think He'd know your thinking of Him anyway? Because, he's God? And the above is what you get response wise from me after 1:00a.m. Night* 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 AHAHahaha! Well it's definitely passed my bedtime, I'm usually never awake this late... God may Not be His name but wouldn't you think He'd know your thinking of Him anyway? Because, he's God? And the above is what you get response wise from me after 1:00a.m. Night* Good night! I think the real point is, a God would know what you mean. Do you really mean for God to damn the hammer that just hit your thumb? Burn in hell you damned hammer!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 What you call wordsmithing I call taking it as it is said. You are using circular logic. You are assuming that the popular interpretation is the correct interpretation and then using that as your argument that it's correct. Actually, no one has ever told me what the popular interpretation is. I couldn't have assumed it is correct, because I never knew it. It would be interesting to finish this assumption contest with you, but instead I'm going to go swear myself to sleep. I'm too tired to try to overcome your shallow logic with my circular logic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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