Trying to date a busy girl

[Robert]

****Moderators Note****

 

The topic is built loosely around "Trying to date a busy girl", let's keep this thread about that and not make this a gender war please, thanks

[sillyanswer]

Why did you think it would end any other way? When she said she was too busy to date, she meant it. In fact, it may have been her way of saying 'I'm too busy to date YOU'.

 

Yup. I pointed that out on page 2, and Keenly pointed it out on page 1 (the very first reply). Yet, here we are, 30 pages later!

 

But you kept on poking around, setting yourself up for the eventual disappointment. And now 'that's it' for her? I'm sure she's shattered.

 

Why do you do this to yourself?

 

Because I like her.

 

None of this is logical.

 

Somedude makes a good point here to your question, Midwest. But, Somedude, there comes a point where pursuing clearly isn't working. I think we've got to that point! You like her... she clearly isn't interested. That's just as true now as it was 10 days ago.

 

But, yes, it's not logical. Attraction isn't. Have a look at some of your other posts in the last couple of days; that's the answer to some of your own questions, too!

 

Why doesn't she like you back? because she doesn't. It's not logical. It doesn't have to be. I know some people (perhaps even me from time to time) have tried to give rational reasons or explanations why someone might not want to date you, and many of those you've dismissed or don't believe... but regardless of the truth or accuracy of those points, her lack of interest in you might be just as illogical as your continued interest in her. Or, at least, given that you aren't in her head and don't know her reasons, the appearance to you is that it might be illogical to the point where it's simply just unknowable.

 

Why doesn't she like you? Really, we have no idea. We've given ideas, but at the end of the day attraction (or lack of) isn't solvable with logic. It isn't a Calc problem where there's a definitive solution that you merely have to deduce in order to unlock getting that first date. She is not interested. Illogical or not, it happens to be true. Accept it.

[The Like Fairy]

 

Average looking women rock.

 

 

You are my new favorite poster

 

Great advice! Hot is in the eye of the beholder, isnt it?

 

Goes way beyond the outer physical looks alone..... whats inside is everything in the long run for both parties in a relationship.

 

Work on loving yourself Some dude. Lose the anger, gain the world my friend

[Teknoe]

Great article here:

 

Single, and Frustrated: 5 Things to Consider - eHarmony Advice

 

If you are single and frustrated, here are 5 reasons to consider WHY. I feel it's very relevant to you, SD, and it fits you to a tee. Look at the 5 and ask yourself how true does each statement ring for ya.

 

For your convenience I will also copy and paste below:

 

 

1. Your past is still your present.

 

You might have endured one or more toxic relationships, have a history of picking partners who do not treat you well or dealt with a heartbreaking breakup or divorce. These sorts of situations take tremendous strength to heal from, but it is possible with time and support. Your problem is that regardless of when one of these situations might have happened, it remains in the forefront of your life, contributing to how you feel about yourself, how you approach dating and how you perceive relationships. When the past is still the present, it has power over you and interferes with your ability to love now. It is important to consciously let go of these heavy burdens as parts of your past. What should be present now are the lessons you have learned and your growth as a person.

 

2. Your desperation to find love acts as a repellent to potential partners.

 

It is absolutely wonderful to know what you want, however wanting a partner, relationship or marriage is very different than NEEDING them. When you bring a needy or desperate vibe into dating, you are likely to rush the natural flow of forming a relationship, overlook red flags and most importantly, you are likely to turn off potential partners. You might engage in clingy behaviors, act out when someone you are newly dating doesn’t respond right away, etc. The key is to be empowered to go after what you want and be confident in achieving it, as opposed to making your entire existence about finding a relationship and feeling miserable until you have someone special in your life.

 

3. You are caught up in magical or distorted thinking (“My partner will just appear”).

 

In Disney movies, we’ve all watched prince charming rescue a damsel in distress — and then they live happily ever after. Although it can be fun and entertaining to romanticize relationships and fantasize about this happening to you, you have to actually put effort into finding love. Too often single individuals believe that they do not have to do much to attract a partner, which in actuality keeps them single. If you have an online dating profile, but do not respond to any messages or go out on any dates for long periods of time, spend all of your time at the office, say no to opportunities for your friends to set you up, these are clues that you are not doing much to go after love. Look for spaces in your life to go after your relationship goals and take risks for love.

 

4. You have spent too much time with the wrong partners.

 

You might have a pattern of overstaying in relationships that were not right for you, prolonged an inevitable breakup, or convinced yourself to stay with someone who exhibited many of your deal breakers. You might have overstayed to protect yourself from the fear of being alone or felt undeserving of a healthier relationship and happiness. Maybe you did not want to deal with the logistics of a breakup, especially if you were cohabiting or engaged. Regardless of your reasons, you were not available to the right partner by staying involved with someone else. Now is the time to make a commitment to only date people who you see long-term potential with and honoring yourself if the relationship no longer serves you well. It takes courage to leave a relationship, but it is so freeing to be open and available to a great partner.

 

5. You are so busy comparing yourself to others that you become disengaged in your own life.

 

You only have so much time and energy, so it is vital to your own health and happiness to be very mindful of how you are spending your energy. Worrying about what others think, comparing your lack of love to your ex’s new seemingly perfect relationship, feeling jealous of your friends in relationships are all energy-drainers. When you put your energy into external matters (that truly have nothing to do with you), you lose sight of your own goals, values, and priorities. When in comparison mode, you are likely to take on a victim mindset, a self-defeating internal dialogue and experience more sadness and anxiety. All of this gets in the way of healthy dating and growing as a person. It is only natural for your mind to compare, but it is crucial to shift your energy inward and focus on yourself. This is when it can be especially helpful to detach from social media and Facebook, which can be dangerous when you are not feeling good about yourself.

[somedude81]

OK, I now realize that I have absolutely no chance with her. That is the general consensus of everybody here right?

 

Then the best thing I can do is to stop going to that class so I won't see her anymore.

 

I hate giving up in situations like this, but I don't think I have any choice.

[thefooloftheyear]

OK, I now realize that I have absolutely no chance with her. That is the general consensus of everybody here right?

 

Then the best thing I can do is to stop going to that class so I won't see her anymore.

 

I hate giving up in situations like this, but I don't think I have any choice.

 

 

Why the hell would you let some girl take you away from what you like to do?

 

Dont give anyone(least not a stranger) that kind of power...

 

When you dont give a crap, then you will start to figure all this out...

 

TFY

[cerridwen]

OK, I now realize that I have absolutely no chance with her. That is the general consensus of everybody here right?

 

Then the best thing I can do is to stop going to that class so I won't see her anymore.

 

I hate giving up in situations like this, but I don't think I have any choice.

 

It would be growth, SD, for you to continue class and manage your feelings around the rejection.

Drop out and you remain stunted.

[somedude81]

Wait a min didn't you say something like that about the girl you feel is unattractive? im sorry but whats good for the goose is good for the gander no? men want to hold women up to cirtin standards come hell or high water but don't want to be told the same thing?

 

I don't even believe in the "class system" I think its a fine way to sort dates if your on the shallow side and looks are the ONLY thing you judge potential dates on but I do think its funny as heck when some men protest being judged the same way they will happily judge others on..

 

The only reason I'm not interested in the other girl is because I think she's not attractive at all. She is outside the norm. Very few girls that age who are not obese have a face that is not at all cute. She is one of them. Frankly there is only one other girl who comes to mind who meets those conditions.

 

Conversely, despite what I say on here, I know that I am not ugly. I've had people on this forum also say that I'm good looking and shouldn't have any problems dating; though I think they are just being nice.

 

Because of that, I feel that my looks do not turn off the girl I like. Unless a girl is a major heightest then nothing about my appearance should turn women off. My personality isn't rude or abrasive or needy either.

 

I'm just not turning women on.

[somedude81]

Why the hell would you let some girl take you away from what you like to do?

 

Dont give anyone(least not a stranger) that kind of power...

 

When you dont give a crap, then you will start to figure all this out...

 

TFY

 

It would be growth, SD, for you to continue class and manage your feelings around the rejection.

Drop out and you remain stunted.

 

My biggest reason for considering dropping that class that I know that I will pursue a girl till the very end and even then I'll try to go a bit beyond.

 

Though if I do manage to not give a crap and control my feelings of jealousy and rejection, I could be OK. There is also small chance things may work out with another girl, and I'd care about this girl less.

 

Still I was in a lot of emotional pain yesterday.

 

I have let myself get too attached to this girl.

[serial muse]

I don't expect a perfect girl at all. From what I know of this girl, she was very close to my ideal. Though things may change if I got to know her better. My ex was my ideal woman in so many areas, but sexually there was room for improvement.

 

If a girl is cute and has a fun personality, that is enough for me to be interested in her. At that point I'd want to talk to her more and see if we are compatible.

 

Women aren't like that and seem to require something "magical" to be interested in a guy. That's what is getting me so frustrated.

 

Ok, so, you're kind of contradicting yourself here. You're frustrated that women want something "magical" and/or are shallow. But you also note that a) you have boxes that are ticked off; b) that you picked the girl who fits those best; and c) that your opinion of someone might change when you get to know her better...which is another way of saying that you are going off of first impressions -- based on superficial (shallow) knowledge of another person!

 

Should I stop going to the class and give up on her entirely? Or keep going and just be friendly with her? Odds are that means I would have to compete with the other guy, even though she's made it clear she's picked him over me. It really hurt seeing her leave with him.

 

As I said before: You were not in competition with him. She didn't pick him over you. Even if he weren't in the picture you guys weren't going to get together. I really think it would help if you could find a way to accept this. Why is the presence of another guy the only thing that'll make you back off?

 

Sure, it would have been easier if she had just given you a firm "no, never going to happen, stop looking down my shirt, I'm seriously never ever ever going to be interested". But the fact is, most people won't do that, because we're socialized not to be blunt (this also goes for guys, by the way - oh yes, it really does. I mean, did you straight-up tell that girl who might like you that you're not interested? I'm guessing not.). And also - I have my doubts about whether you would have accepted that, either. If she continued to be friendly after saying "forget it forever" I think you'd still take that as a tentative maybe. Because you don't seem to understand what it means to really be friends with someone. Friendship isn't a waiting room. It's an end in itself.

 

Regardless, you just have to learn to accept that anything other than a yes is a no, SD. That is the lesson you could take away from this, the one that you've been arguing against this whole thread. I know you'll say that you think your only hope is to "work on" someone who isn't initially interested. Well, I disagree. I think your best hope is to "work on" you. You've gotten a lot of actually constructive advice in this and many other threads, but you deny that any of it would be useful because it just isn't how you like to going about doing things. Well, your way is not working.

Edited October 23, 2014 by serial muse

[clia]

OK, I now realize that I have absolutely no chance with her. That is the general consensus of everybody here right?

 

Then the best thing I can do is to stop going to that class so I won't see her anymore.

 

I hate giving up in situations like this, but I don't think I have any choice.

 

The very first line of your post 30+ pages ago said this:

 

Truth be told, I'm already starting to feel that she's a dead end.

 

I don't know why you do this to yourself. You knew you had been rejected, you knew this was a dead end, nearly everyone who posted agreed that you had been rejected, but for whatever reason you continued to try to pursue this girl. A girl shouldn't have to explicitly say "No, somedude, I do not want to date you" for you to get the picture.

 

It's also not about "giving up." It's about being smart and knowing when to cut your losses. Sometimes you have to do that -- in all facets of life. Focus on the new girl who you are going to dance with on Monday. Or make plans to go dancing on Friday, where maybe you can meet someone else.

[somedude81]

Ok, so, you're kind of contradicting yourself here. You're frustrated that women want something "magical" and/or are shallow. But you also note that a) you have boxes that are ticked off; b) that you picked the girl who fits those best; and c) that your opinion of someone might change when you get to know her better...which is another way of saying that you are going off of first impressions -- based on superficial (shallow) knowledge of another person!

 

When I said things may change, I meant they may change about her being my ideal.

 

On the surface, my ex was my ideal woman in everything. Perhaps perfect woman is a better phrase But deeper in I realized that she had a few traits that made her no longer perfect. Of course even with her being imperfect, I was still very much into my ex.

 

So for this girl, on the surface she is perfect though I that would most likely change as I got to know her better. From what I know of her right now, she's my ideal woman.

 

Just to be clear, I don't need a girl to fit the mold of my ideal to be interested in her. Just that when I do meet that type of girl, I tend to develop strong feelings very quickly. Then all other women tend to fade away.

 

 

As I said before: You were not in competition with him. She didn't pick him over you. Even if he weren't in the picture you guys weren't going to get together. I really think it would help if you could find a way to accept this. Why is the presence of another guy the only thing that'll make you back off?

 

Because if the guy wasn't in the picture, I'd be the one spending time with her. It's about a 10 minute walk to her car and I missed on doing that with her because of the other guy. To me, all time spent with a girl increases my chances of her liking me. To have another guy take my place was very painful.

 

Sure, it would have been easier if she had just given you a firm "no, never going to happen, stop looking down my shirt, I'm seriously never ever ever going to be interested". But the fact is, most people won't do that, because we're socialized not to be blunt

 

Most women who have rejected me have told me in no uncertain terms that they weren't interested in me. Some do it more firmly than others, but there is never any sort of confusion. Except for this girl.

 

When I texted her about lunch on Tuesday, I was hoping that she would not respond. That would have put her at two ignored texts in a row for invitations.

 

When it comes to women, I'm a bit dense and also stubborn. So I need a woman to tell me no, or ignore me.

 

(this also goes for guys, by the way - oh yes, it really does. I mean, did you straight-up tell that girl who might like you that you're not interested? I'm guessing not.).

 

There hasn't been a situation where telling the other girl that I'm not interested in would be appropriate. She hasn't been suggesting we do anything together.

 

And also - I have my doubts about whether you would have accepted that, either. If she continued to be friendly after saying "forget it forever" I think you'd still take that as a tentative maybe. Because you don't seem to understand what it means to really be friends with someone. Friendship isn't a waiting room. It's an end in itself.

 

Regardless, you just have to learn to accept that anything other than a yes is a no, SD. That is the lesson you could take away from this, the one that you've been arguing against this whole thread. I know you'll say that you think your only hope is to "work on" someone who isn't initially interested. Well, I disagree. I think your best hope is to "work on" you. You've gotten a lot of actually constructive advice in this thread, but you deny that any of it would be useful because it just isn't how you like to going about doing things. Well, your way is not working.

 

I don't expect to ever get a yes for when it really counts. So I lowered my threshold for what I consider a yes to be.

 

When a girl knows that I like her and she continues to spend time with me, I will interpret that as a maybe.

 

For example if the other girl invited me to have lunch with her I would decline in the nicest way I can think of without making an excuse.

[clia]

When it comes to women, I'm a bit dense and also stubborn. So I need a woman to tell me no, or ignore me.

 

Most women aren't going to do that because they don't want to hurt your feelings. You have to learn to read between the lines or you are going to continue running into these scenarios.

 

When a girl knows that I like her and she continues to spend time with me, I will interpret that as a maybe.

 

You really shouldn't interpret it that way, because odds are high she is not meaning it that way. If you've asked a girl out on a date and she hasn't actually gone out on a date with you, that's a no to dating/romance. You have to understand that most people have very different viewpoints than you do when it comes to making friends (and acquaintances.) If a girl does not want to date you, to her, that doesn't mean the two of you can't interact and be friends. For you to automatically interpret that as something more is just going to lead to heartbreak for you.

[carhill]

When a girl knows that I like her and she continues to spend time with me, I will interpret that as a maybe.

 

For example if the other girl invited me to have lunch with her I would decline in the nicest way I can think of without making an excuse.

 

 

Clia made a good point on this aspect which I'll add to: Men and women think differently about such matters, but not terribly differently.

 

If the lady continues to spend time with you, one quick way to determine the focus of that is to initiate a conversation on an interest of yours, like salsa dancing. For me it would be travel or racing or vintage cars. If I get the glazed eyes look, she's simply fishing for attention and has no interest in friendship and is simply spending time to hoover some attention and validation. In other words, she likes that I like her and will hoover that for all she can. Terminate. OTOH, if there's impassioned back and forth on interests, then perhaps a friendship could evolve. Dating, no, since she's decided I'm undateable, usually at first encounter, so I must accept that reality or I am poisoned by my own choices.

[xxoo]

When it comes to women, I'm a bit dense and also stubborn. So I need a woman to tell me no, or ignore me.

 

Don't be that guy. It's creepy to ignore the very clear signs of disinterest and put a woman in the uncomfortable position of ignoring you or explaining clearly that she isn't interested.

 

This is a woman you like with good social connections. You don't want her to tell her friends bad things about you.

[MissBee]

Why the hell would you let some girl take you away from what you like to do?

 

Dont give anyone(least not a stranger) that kind of power...

 

When you dont give a crap, then you will start to figure all this out...

 

TFY

 

Right!

 

If this is how you deal with rejection, from someone you never even dated, then life will be a hardd place for you, as even if you do date her she is free at any point to break up with you or just see you once and lose interest...then you'll not get over it like with your ex. I don't understand how you can make SO much ride on a woman you don't know very well to the point that you can't go to class because she doesn't want to date you...

 

If liking someone is a matter of life and death and angst all the time and you can't just allow it to be or not to be... you're in for a hard road... Or harder one anyway. But I guess that is the illogical logic of desperation: you claw at people like it's your last breath and if they pull away you really act like the world has collapsed. If it is always THAT serious it seems very emotionally stressful and tiring to even like people.

 

I get heartbreak after having been emotionally involved with someone and in a relationship but when it's just a crush.... It just seems completely unhealthy to get that attached to the point of utter devastation. I really feel for you. It just seems very tumultuous and I feel stressed out just reading it.

[GemmaUK]

Girls in college don't have a clue how old I am or guys for that matter.

 

I was in my math class talking to a guy and girl about how this is my very last class to graduate and that I've been at the school for several years. Then the girl asks how old I am and I say older than she is. Then the guys says, 23 I say no, then the girls asks 24.

 

As long as that happens, I'm just not going to accept that my age is a reason. Don't forget the fact that even when I was young I still wasn't dating girls. There is something else far more important than my age that is holding me back.

 

I'm reading back a bit here..it all took off again..

 

Your age thing..

 

They are guessing 23/24 because they 'expect' you to be that age simply because they are all in college.

 

It isn't down to how you look..really..but they are probably aware something doesn't sit right and is off. EG...your age and situation.

You may well look older but they assume you are collage age - same as them so it isn't 'quite' 'right' ya know?

 

Me, I'm way old compared to you..mid forties and honestly by about age 30 I expect a guy to be working full time have a house of his own (rented or mortgaged), interests, friends (men tend to have a bigger friend set than women do (women often have a smaller but closer friend set).

 

You don't seem to have a social circle aside from dancing classes and even then...where are your buddies?

[NJ123]

Right!

 

If this is how you deal with rejection, from someone you never even dated, then life will be a hardd place for you, as even if you do date her she is free at any point to break up with you or just see you once and lose interest...then you'll not get over it like with your ex. I don't understand how you can make SO much ride on a woman you don't know very well to the point that you can't go to class because she doesn't want to date you...

 

If liking someone is a matter of life and death and angst all the time and you can't just allow it to be or not to be... you're in for a hard road... Or harder one anyway. But I guess that is the illogical logic of desperation: you claw at people like it's your last breath and if they pull away you really act like the world has collapsed. If it is always THAT serious it seems very emotionally stressful and tiring to even like people.

 

I get heartbreak after having been emotionally involved with someone and in a relationship but when it's just a crush.... It just seems completely unhealthy to get that attached to the point of utter devastation. I really feel for you. It just seems very tumultuous and I feel stressed out just reading it.

 

I think the thing is though, the people who have the hardest time trying to get into a relationship are the ones who are the most desperate & take rejection the hardest. So it's going to affect them in a much different way than others whom been in a lot of relationships.

[GemmaUK]

If a girl is cute and has a fun personality, that is enough for me to be interested in her. At that point I'd want to talk to her more and see if we are compatible.

 

Women aren't like that and seem to require something "magical" to be interested in a guy. That's what is getting me so frustrated.

 

 

 

I like this girl as more than a space filler. That should be obvious from how I've been writing about her. I've been very drawn to her since our first real conversation. I like her so much that I'm most likely never going to go to that class again and stop doing something I really enjoy because I don't want to see her getting close to another guy.

 

1st para..who do you find attractive women wise (post pics).

And let us see you (face pic).

 

Third para.

You are quitting a study class because she perhaps likes someone else? Seriously? I'm stunned!

[Easyguy14]

So deflect with humor and don't be intense with her at all. Thanks

 

I am starting to get a bit frustrated with her. I only see her two days a week and only in class, which I can't even talk to that much. I actually only talk to her for 15 minutes each day. I really wanted to have lunch with her, where we can just talk. Hiking would have been good for that too.

 

Is there any way I can get her to be alone with me?

 

 

You're way too hung up on this girl and I have no clue as to why? Aren't there other girls at the university you can try to meet in the meantime? It would definitely shave off some of your desperation. I apologize if I'm not up to date but this thread is running longer than it should.

[somedude81]

Right!

 

If this is how you deal with rejection, from someone you never even dated, then life will be a hardd place for you, as even if you do date her she is free at any point to break up with you or just see you once and lose interest...then you'll not get over it like with your ex. I don't understand how you can make SO much ride on a woman you don't know very well to the point that you can't go to class because she doesn't want to date you...

 

If liking someone is a matter of life and death and angst all the time and you can't just allow it to be or not to be... you're in for a hard road... Or harder one anyway. But I guess that is the illogical logic of desperation: you claw at people like it's your last breath and if they pull away you really act like the world has collapsed. If it is always THAT serious it seems very emotionally stressful and tiring to even like people.

 

I get heartbreak after having been emotionally involved with someone and in a relationship but when it's just a crush.... It just seems completely unhealthy to get that attached to the point of utter devastation. I really feel for you. It just seems very tumultuous and I feel stressed out just reading it.

 

Yes it is very stressful. This is what I've dealt with since I was 16. Yes, life is hard and absolutely not fun, at least it's not fun when I'm single, which has been 99% of my life.

 

I like that saying, "the illogical logic of desperation." That describes it perfectly.

 

Basically I'm desperate for the perfect girlfriend. I found a girl who would fit into that mold, and of course she isn't into me, so I want to keep trying till there is absolutely no hope. I know I should have given up on her a while ago, but something is telling me to keep trying.

 

That's a big reason why I loath myself so much.

 

Still I hate how it's so difficult just to get a girlfriend. It's as if the world is treating it as if I'm asking that I win a billion dollars.

[xxoo]

The primary, long term problem is that you put far too much importance on having a girlfriend, which has directly impeded your growth in areas that would actually attract women.

[ThaWholigan]

The primary, long term problem is that you put far too much importance on having a girlfriend, which has directly impeded your growth in areas that would actually attract women.

Agreed and we've all been saying it for eons. It's why I've been urging SD for a long time to do other things, find something else he actually wants to do with his life and time, add more depth. And every time, it's the same "but girlfriend :(" reaction.

 

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. SD fits that to a tee - and so do we because we keep telling him all the time

[somedude81]

The primary, long term problem is that you put far too much importance on having a girlfriend, which has directly impeded your growth in areas that would actually attract women.

 

Or perhaps it's the other way around.

 

If I had a girlfriend in high school and my first couple of years of college, when I wasn't lacking in areas that girls cared about; I'd probably be much more advanced in life than I am now.

 

If I had a girlfriend back then, and was happy, I wouldn't have struggled nearly as much in school as I have been while single.

 

I would also probably have had friends of both genders as well because I wouldn't be focused on trying to find a GF, I'd already have one.

 

Though for whatever reason, I didn't get the early girlfriends when most people do, and it turned into something that I've had to struggle with.

[somedude81]

Agreed and we've all been saying it for eons. It's why I've been urging SD for a long time to do other things, find something else he actually wants to do with his life and time, add more depth. And every time, it's the same "but girlfriend :(" reaction.

 

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. SD fits that to a tee - and so do we because we keep telling him all the time

 

There is nothing I want more in life than to have a girlfriend. Until I can get that taken care of, basically nothing else matters. I can barely focus on anything else.