Back again

[Blackknight]

This is true. I don't get the sense she's being treated poorly in this case, however. By her own admission, he treats her great when they're together. And it sounds like she's inititiating most of the time. He may be most guilty of not cutting her off and indvertantly getting her hopes up. But I think this is more about how Sofie's dealing with the new dynamic than her exH.

 

That is why I think if she can't take the nsa sex anymore she should be honest with her ex. And not just lie or not tell him why she can't do it anymore. Either he is completely clueless or doesn't care (or both). If he doesn't care that he is hurting the mother of his children and putting her emotional and mental wellbeing at risk, then he is a selfish man who needs a swift kick in the butt. But it is very likely he doesn't know and really hasn't thought aboit the ramifications of using the mother of his children for sex only all the while knowing she wants him back.

[Blackknight]

This isn't your call to make, is it? this is Sofie's call. She knows what she wants, and what it is worth to her. she isn't a child.

 

Oh, I thought sophie asked a question and wanted other opinions. My bad, I didn't realize she only wanted the opinions of people who LOVE to remind her she cheated and she should take whatever he gives her even if it is crushing her.

[goodyblue]

This is true. I don't get the sense she's being treated poorly in this case, however. By her own admission, he treats her great when they're together. And it sounds like she's inititiating most of the time. He may be most guilty of not cutting her off and indvertantly getting her hopes up. But I think this is more about how Sofie's dealing with the new dynamic than her exH.

 

This is possible. But I do have a difficult time believing that he thinks she is 'fine' with how things are. I truly believe that he divorced her and they should both move on to parents better suited to them. Obviously this was not the case when they were married. And it does feel like she is hanging on to any.scraps he will throw her way. So, I go back to what people in this forum always say about that: You deserve better. Don't wait around for scraps. Find someone who is emotionally and physically available.

[Blackknight]

It is perfectly OK for Sofie to have boundaries, but it is NOT OK for her to presume to set HIS personal boundaries. To be frank, it is a little late in the game for her to assume the role of the victim. She and her ex are divorced, so they are both free agents, and IF she wants her EX back, she will have to woo HIM, not the other way around. Because she is the one who broke it, she HAS to be the one to fix it.

 

Where did I say set his boundaries? For f sakes. As was suggested you can woo someone without spreading your legs. Sex isn't love and it most certainly isn't for a dude who is possibly banging three or four women at once. Honestly, i think people should know how many active partners someone has for health reasons but I realize that would be taken wrong. I just hope sophie is insisting on protection. Doubtful though as she is willing to whatever he wants.

 

Her personal boundary is she can't have the man she loves banging her while banging other women. His boundary was the same. She can tell him that she can't handle that without being demanding about it. Of course you want her to feel like crap forever.

[goodyblue]

Not parents, partners. Sorry. Auto correct.

[Blackknight]

Nobody is saying she has to be a "whore". You really like to project, don't you. Because she cheated, she has to be BETTER than before, in every way, Why should he accept anything less, or why should he accept the status quo?. That is the bottom line. She can expect that she needs to do the heavy lifting and should be OK with it, if she has any true remorse at all. Her posts are complaining about how he doesn't woo her as much as the other women, and how it makes her feel, and it is still all about Sofie, when it should be all about her EX.

 

I have yet to project. I am pretty sure you don't know what that means. I stated earlier our situaions are light years apart. Te obly thing similar is we both cheated. And she doesn't have to ignore how she feels for her EX HUSBAND. OMG, do you get that? She shouldn't have to sell herseld short for anyone on the off chance he decides to take her back. And for what? And unbalanced relationship that apparently divorce didn't even balance it out some. Besides, how is cutting of non committal sex so terrible for her ex? He shouldn't be finding healing in his penis anyways. And as to the betrayal part. I already clarified for those that can't read... I said he did not lie and betray her like she did him. But IF he was no one would say she should just accept it and shut up. Except maybe you and your obvious dismissal of her feelings and wellbeing.

 

Sophie lost her family an everything because she cheated. She recieved the full consequences of her actions. Unlike you I think she has paid and is paying enough without more swallowing her wants and needs. And any man who wants to keep her foot on her head and requires her to just keep her mouth shut is no man she should fight for. I AM NOT saying her husband is this pigheaded. Hust some of the posters who want her to shut up and take what she can.

[Oberfeldwebel]

I’m scared to talk to him about this I know he would be ok with leaving things the way they are and he wouldn’t really care if I decided to end it. The fact is I want him more than he does me.

 

Here is the whole thing in a nutshell. But the real problem is not how he feels about you, it is the way that you feel about you. You made a mistake and you paid with your marriage, but he doesn't get to treat you as just a booty-call. I suggest that you start dating other men. Since your relationship is not exclusive, you owe him nothing. You need to tell yourself, you are a person of value and deserve happiness. You need to value yourself, even if he does not. Hold up your head Hester, take off that A, and don't be afraid to live life to the fullest.

[lovinDKT3]

Blackknight, how dire you judge me for the decisions I made to win my guy back? I don't need to prove myself to you. During that time I did what I wanted to do and DKT never took advantage of me. Unlike me or you or any of us that cheated, he was always honest with me about the other woman.

 

Believe me, I know his views can be hard to take, he truly is a black and white man when it comes to love and respect.

 

Sophie, you have to do what you feel is best for you. Many of the posters can't get past the sex in this situation, even when you say that isn't the issue, so they comment accordingly but totally miss the point. Do what your comfortable with you are the one that has to live with the decision you make. As far as you ex goes, you know him better then any of us so you know what buttons to push. Just focus on working on your stuff its the only thing you can control. You can accept whatever role he will allow you to have in his life at this point or you can close the door on that chapter and move on.

 

Like you, I was told by people that it was over, he didn't love me he was using me and so on. I was there, I saw the look in his eyes. Even when he tried to hide it I felt loved by him. Not all the time, but enough to keep me going. Your there, if he treats you well then focus on that. It doesn't mean you do anything your uncomfortable with.

 

Take care of yourself and boys first.

[JustJoe]

Sophie has an affair. It is disastrous. They divorce bit continue sexual relations. She is heart broken over her ex having other women. All that is said. But where is it written that she should become a non entity? That she should be endlessly punished? That sge deserves no better than this? You? How can you say it is not Black Knight's call to make, then make it YOUR call?

 

Sophie. Nobody should be treated like they do not matter. We, those involved in the affair, did do that to others at that time, but being punished forever, having our esteem and self worth ripped out cannot repair that. It takes TWO working in tandem to fix a broken relationship. Not a parent child relationship where one doles out the punishment and the other just takes it.

 

I will tell you if it were me i would walk. But only you can decide for yourself. I hope you see the value in who you are and realize there can be happy relationships without games and misery. I wish some sense of peace for you and hope you can come to a place where you will do what is best for you.

This is about selfish behavior. Sofie , herself admits that her ex treats her fine, and that she initiates the encounters and also that she enjoys the FWB relationship. So....where do you get that she is being punished? This is another example of posters projecting their own feelings into a post where NONE of it is present. You are not dealing with Sofie's situation, you are creating one of your own.

[JustJoe]

I have yet to project. I am pretty sure you don't know what that means. I stated earlier our situaions are light years apart. Te obly thing similar is we both cheated. And she doesn't have to ignore how she feels for her EX HUSBAND. OMG, do you get that? She shouldn't have to sell herseld short for anyone on the off chance he decides to take her back. And for what? And unbalanced relationship that apparently divorce didn't even balance it out some. Besides, how is cutting of non committal sex so terrible for her ex? He shouldn't be finding healing in his penis anyways. And as to the betrayal part. I already clarified for those that can't read... I said he did not lie and betray her like she did him. But IF he was no one would say she should just accept it and shut up. Except maybe you and your obvious dismissal of her feelings and wellbeing.

 

Sophie lost her family an everything because she cheated. She recieved the full consequences of her actions. Unlike you I think she has paid and is paying enough without more swallowing her wants and needs. And any man who wants to keep her foot on her head and requires her to just keep her mouth shut is no man she should fight for. I AM NOT saying her husband is this pigheaded. Hust some of the posters who want her to shut up and take what she can.

Sofie has said NONE of this. You live in a dream world of your own creation. Sofie clearly says that her EX treats her great, she initiates the dating and then you come and tell her to act according to YOUR take on her situation , which even you admit isn't the case at all. You really don't have anything useful to say that is based on FACT, do you?

[stillafool]

Sophie please don't let this man have the upper hand anymore. Make him work to get you back. Yes you were wrong to cheat on him and betray your marriage. The debt you paid for cheating was the divorce. Now that he's divorced you the debt is paid. At this point if you two want to start a relationship it should be on even ground starting with forgiveness on his part. If he is having problems forgiving you then he should not have sex with you but move on with his life. Stop blaming yourself Sofie. Now you have to forgive yourself and move on.

[goodyblue]

This is about selfish behavior. Sofie , herself admits that her ex treats her fine, and that she initiates the encounters and also that she enjoys the FWB relationship. So....where do you get that she is being punished? This is another example of posters projecting their own feelings into a post where NONE of it is present. You are not dealing with Sofie's situation, you are creating one of your own.

 

She is sleeping with him and wants a relationship. He is just screwing her. Do you think he is daft? Does not know it hurts her?

 

I am not projecting anything. She says it hurts her. My feeling is he knows it. That is punishment. It is even possible she is punishing herself by taking scraps. Neither of these scenarios help anyone heal and move on.

[velvette]

velvette and others.

 

 

Lots of fancy word and ideals. At this time they mean nothing to him.

The problem with the history is she cheated on him. The hurt and pain of that will take at least a year and most likely a lot longer to begin to soften

I do not have the words to describe how deeply I loved my ExW. Nor do I have the words to describe how deeply the pain the humiliation she inflicted upon my soul.

I would count my lucky stars that he is able to have sex with you. This was not a ONS, but and on going affair.

My ExW would have done anything to get me to reconcile. But there was no way I could ever kiss, hold or make love to her again. I took me a good year before I could get the images of her doing another man out of my head so that I could have normal loving sex again. How can you kiss the lips of your lover knowing she was giving BJ's to the OM?

"Let him come to you or not". She already knows the answer will be Not.

 

It has been over a year since Sophie's A. Obviously, her ex is not having the same issues you describe or he wouldn't be having sex with her.

 

I agree if she forces the issue the answer may be he doesn't come to her. But, there's a lot of middle ground between forcing the issue and being his call girl. She could take a step back and see what he does.

[velvette]

The time we spend together is great and the sex has always been amazing. We have always had great sexual chemistry. He still treats me great when we are together. The fact that he is seeing other does bother me a lot. I do feel like he does treat us differently although that’s where the feeling of being cheap or worthless really comes in. With the other women I know he tries to pull all of the stops and ‘m lucky to get a cup of coffee. What make it worse is hearing about the place he takes them to by your friends. But I don’t really blame him now that I think about. I kind made myself to easy and willing he doesn’t really need to put the effort in with me compared to the other ones he’s seeing.

 

Now I feel like Sh*t .

 

Not to make you feel worse than you do, but yes. Don't make yourself so easy. Require more for yourself.

[velvette]

Sophie,

 

You said you guys started talking and then started seeing each other.

 

Whats not clear to me is did you talk about what your interactions with each other were going to look like or did you just fall into this arrangement?

 

The reason I ask, is that it has seemed to me that communication of the real and important sort is sorely lacking in this R.

 

You ex is a lawyer so I assume he communicates well for a living. Why is it that you two cant have honest communication over whats going on?

[violet1]

Sophie please don't let this man have the upper hand anymore. Make him work to get you back. Yes you were wrong to cheat on him and betray your marriage. The debt you paid for cheating was the divorce. Now that he's divorced you the debt is paid. At this point if you two want to start a relationship it should be on even ground starting with forgiveness on his part. If he is having problems forgiving you then he should not have sex with you but move on with his life. Stop blaming yourself Sofie. Now you have to forgive yourself and move on.

I completely agree. I have a feeling you're going to get hurt Sofie. In my personal opinion, DKT's situation is rare. Every couple I've known to continue having sex after a divorce never gets back together. One person ends up getting hurt. It's obvious you're still madly in love with him. Please don't continue the FWB relationship with him if you think this will bring him back home. You guys have been together a long time so there's comfort there. Unfortunately, him having sex with you doesn't mean he's still *in* love with you. It's familiar and some people are better at separating sex from love than others. Forgive yourself and guard your heart. It's time to move on. You certainly do have the right to demand that the sexual relationship is exclusive or you're done. Your *past* decision to cheat doesn't change that.

[velvette]

In what way is her exH lying and betraying Sofie? BK, you are projecting. Her ex has done nothing wrong, and is well within his rights to date anybody he chooses. We are only trying to help Sofie find a way to define her relationship with him and preserve her self-esteem, without doing what you are by vilifying her EX. As another poster said this isn't about who is right or wrong, it is about making this relationship work.

 

He's not really lying or betraying Sophie.

 

However, he also cheated on her before they were married if I recall(ok different than cheating when M, but still).

 

And, he seems from her description to be acting a bit of the player. Do we really believe he's telling these other women he's still sleeping with his ex?

 

I am not trying to vilify him, but pointing out he has some issues himself imo.

 

Not to mention, they both seem to have a big problem with communication and conflict avoidance which imo would have to be addressed before they could ever have a successful M.

 

What they are doing now just perpetuates what they were doing before that didn't work.

[twosadthings]

Sophie,

 

I won't comment on other poster's responses, never do. I will ask you if you still feel the same way you did last year. Your threads last year were all about doing whatever it took, swallowing your pride, wanting your marriage because you loved and needed your husband in your life. If you still feel the same way use the contact you have to rebuild his connection to you.

 

You have the advantage over any of those other women if you can show your love and true remorse. You have your twins, you have a more complete knowledge of your ex - husband (what he likes and dislikes, turns him on, moves him emotionally, ect.) and you have the motivation. If he has the opportunity to have sex with others why does he keep coming when you call? If he didn't want an intimate relationship with you he would only connect through your children.

 

I'm not saying you have to be willing to make the current situation permanent. You need to let him know, and find out from him, what you could't last year when he was working long hours and you were being unfaithful.

 

Good luck,

 

Twosadthings

[Spectre]

Sofie, next time he calls you for a bootie call tell him you can't that night, you have a date but maybe the following week will work. Don't allow him to use you, by being available all the time the value he puts on you goes down. The harder you become to get to the greater the value of the treasure. Your worth the effort.

 

This is awesome advice. This woman cheated on and betrayed her husband. So what do you tell her to do? Lie to him some more! Yep. Either you meant her to lie or you meant her to actually specifically go on a date with someone else JUST to mess with the ex, which is all kinds of healthy. Obviously what this relationship needs is even more games played, right?

 

She is sleeping with him and wants a relationship. He is just screwing her. Do you think he is daft? Does not know it hurts her?

 

I am not projecting anything. She says it hurts her. My feeling is he knows it. That is punishment. It is even possible she is punishing herself by taking scraps. Neither of these scenarios help anyone heal and move on.

 

Nobody is forcing her to sleep with her ex, is the major thing that needs to be pointed out.

 

If he is screwing the OP and also getting with other women it means he has NO interest whatsoever in getting back together with the OP. That I can be 100% sure of. So I guess my advice to the OP would be the advice I always gave her in her other threads: just plain find someone else and this time do not betray him. The relationship is not healthy, you know it, the OP seems to know it, etc. So, move on is my advice. You are beating a dead horse.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Spectre

[SawtoothMars]

Sofie may or may not be in a position to make demands of her ex. However she is still perfectly entitled to be in a healthy relationship and to be respected by whoever she is in a relationship with, just exactly as her ex is. If this relationship is not working then I fail to see how the advice she has been given is so bad, unless people just want to see her continue to suffer.

 

Either she wants her marriage back or she doesn't. Her ex was NOT in healthy relationship where he was respected and loved... instead he was, emotionally abused and disrespected. That crap doesn't fix itself overnight! I think your advice borders on tone deaf and self centered.

 

"If you love someone let them go and if they come back then they are yours."

 

Ok thanks for all the comments. I have read them all and I’m more confused on then before. I have no idea what I’m going to now. Part feels like maybe I should be grateful he even wants to talk to me let alone still see me. I knowing how much how pain and how much I have hurt I know I should. And I’m grateful I just hate what it does to me. I used to be his number one and alone one. Now I don’t even know if I’m his second, third or even forth. I don’t what I’m done anymore. Maybe I should just give it more time to see what happens it’s only been going on for a few months.

I also don’t plan on making him choose between me and other women his seeing. I never planned on demanding make a choice either. I know that would put stop to any chance I have of ever getting him back. As for making myself less available since I broke it off the first time he’s only really asked to see me once all the other times where me asking him.

Those who compared my current station it to an affair. I never thought about like that but it kind of does feel like that at times. It might be a little more intense then my affair ever was the feeling I get when I’m around him is indescribable but when I leave him I fall so much harder knowing he’s going to share that with someone else kills me. Then I start to wonder if their prettier, better, younger. It makes me feels worthless.

Thanks again for all the comments they do help

 

I know this situation sucks, but you have to decide soon whether you want him back or not. If you play hard to get.... then he might just drop you completely or it might spur his interest.

 

As a guy who has kinda been through this... the affair probably destroyed his self esteem. I went though a period of dating women just to rebuild my confidence. By that point my xWife and I were so embroiled in a bitter divorce that you could not have paid me to go back. Had she been more like you... I can honestly say I would have had a tough choice.

[JustJoe]

Sophie please don't let this man have the upper hand anymore. Make him work to get you back. Yes you were wrong to cheat on him and betray your marriage. The debt you paid for cheating was the divorce. Now that he's divorced you the debt is paid. At this point if you two want to start a relationship it should be on even ground starting with forgiveness on his part. If he is having problems forgiving you then he should not have sex with you but move on with his life. Stop blaming yourself Sofie. Now you have to forgive yourself and move on.

Start on even ground, but the BS has to forgive, first. How is that even? Sofie cheated, so she needs to make the extra effort, and be willing to be the vulnerable one.

[JustJoe]

She is sleeping with him and wants a relationship. He is just screwing her. Do you think he is daft? Does not know it hurts her?

 

I am not projecting anything. She says it hurts her. My feeling is he knows it. That is punishment. It is even possible she is punishing herself by taking scraps. Neither of these scenarios help anyone heal and move on.

You are indeed , projecting, by saying that it is YOUR feeling, and not through any PROOF of his actual feelings. In short, you are making this up as you go.

[ChasingCars]

Hi Sophie,

 

I spent the last 4 evenings reading your threads and to me it seems it is time to discontinue being so easy.

 

My take on it is that he was already questioning his feelings about the relationship and distanced before the affair. He was looking for confirmation one way or the other as how to proceed with his feelings as they were distanced already. (I don't think this should be so easily overlooked.)

The affair next gave him a confirmation of sorts and you have had tremendous input on all of that and have acted top notch about it all from the beginning here.

There is nothing else you can do, that I can see, about what has been done and gone on until he himself decides to take a different course of action.

I feel after reading everything fresh, you should now focus not on "making up for the affair" but focus on moving on- which could possibly cause him to realize that the past is moving on to the past unless he wants to join you in the present and work on today which then includes the past- if he wants to work on a relationship with you.

I wouldn't count on a relationship with him- but move on, set boundaries and reclaim yourself.

Even if the affair never happened- he already had a foot at the door and was waiting to see what happened. Even if the affair never happened- there was THAT issue of "how to rekindle the spark" or what have you.

Everything you said he originally chased you for- including the fact that you were hard to get- don't forget those things.

I'm not saying to play games with him or anything that will likely be said by some who respond to well meaning posts with a knee jerk but keep in mind that being easy for him and sleeping with him at his beck and call wasn't what he wanted in the first place and acting like that with this recent past and while knowing he is with others probably isn't his highest caliber forte now. (Wife material)

I think if there is any chance at all for reconciliation it will be in the next phase- this all has to end for the new chapter to get written.

Whether that includes him or not, we don't know.

 

I'm wishing you the best possible outcome.

[violet1]

Start on even ground, but the BS has to forgive, first. How is that even? Sofie cheated, so she needs to make the extra effort, and be willing to be the vulnerable one.

They are divorced, her ex is dating other women while having sex with her. There is absolutely no reason for her to make herself vulnerable to someone who may not want her back. That's like telling her to jump in a fire and not expect to get burned.

 

I personally can't support a FWB situation if both parties are not on the same page. She's having sex with him in hopes of winning him back. If he felt the same he wouldn't be seeing and possibly sleeping with other women. The other issue is that Sofie is worried about discussing the situation with her ex. Without communication this is going to end badly. I'd hate to see Sofie have to start the healing process over again from square one.

[Blackknight]

You are indeed , projecting, by saying that it is YOUR feeling, and not through any PROOF of his actual feelings. In short, you are making this up as you go.

 

Oh and your not? You seem to think despite skipping where the Op feels cheap after the sex and hearing about the dating (these friends should really keep their mouths shut) she is okay with this situation. This is about the sex. It is about her feeling cheap because she feels like a booty call in the aftermath of everythif.

 

 

So tell me, how come you think only your opinion matters and why do you simply pick on people who oppose yournfew that you geel morally superiour too? And do you really think the OP should shut her mouth and spread her legs for some momentary gratification instead of protecing her heart and well being?

 

He divorced her. Their relationship is over except for as co parents. She doesn't owe him sex to "help him heal".