I Just Have To Get This Off My Chest

[simsim]

Ok. I read everything you wrote. And pretty much agree with it.

 

I'd describe myself as laid-back, social, able to get along with anyone, cute in a tomboy way, super low maintenance. Late twenties, maybe not as established in my career as I could have been if it wasn't for being distracted by music festivals with my friends, road trips, and an admitted general lack of focus when it comes to work. Basically, building a great career means less to me right now than having fun. Just letting you know how I am...I'm aware not all women like you describe are underachievers like me, but maybe this colors how I choose mates...

 

I dated a guy earlier this year who was sculpted by the gods. He was 6'3, athletic, dressed well, had an adorable cheeky smile, and made BANK as a geologist. Same age as me. He was super nice and accommodating, played the music he knows I like, became BFFs with my dog, showed interest in my hobbies, and made time for me any day of the week I wanted/was free. I lost interest in him after a few weeks, honestly. Our conversations never flowed, he was painfully awkward with physical affection, could never look me in the eye, and never disagreed or challenged anything I said. He also never left his apartment...which was palatial, by the way. But he would just stay at home in his expensive ass robe listening to music and working...if we ever went out, he would have 1 or 2 drinks at most and keep quietly to himself. He never said a word during sex, and also seemed to always have a difficult time getting off and would often stop before doing so. Which made me feel...weird and uncomfortable. I love watching a guy's face when he comes. That never happened. He also would repeat verbatim things I'd text him. "Hahah that chinese place was weird, but at least the food was good :D"-me, a couple seconds later I get "Hahah it WAS weird, but the food was really good :D" complete with same spelling and emoticon. I understand it's tough when you don't have much experience, but I assumed surely a 28 year old man knows a woman wants someone who is their own person?

 

Right now, I'm 3 months into dating a guy who all my friends think is wayyy below me in looks. He's an inch shorter than me, has a belly, wears dumb t-shirts and cargo shorts all the time, and is also a underachiever career-wise. I'm CRAZY for him. He's witty and confident and has tons of friends. He is passionate about his hobbies and is always willing to take risks for the sake of adventure. He makes friends easily wherever he goes. Unlike with my exes, I'm not afraid of inviting him to an event where he doesn't know many people, because I don't have to babysit him, he can just...TALK to people. Sometimes I see him across the room laughing with one of my friends he introduced himself to, and it makes me heart flutter. It makes me want to tear his clothes off afterwards. Well, that and he knows how to talk to a woman in bed (which is a super underrated skill). Truly, he is amazing in bed, and it's not like he has the biggest equipment or even the most crazy skills in general...he's just great at teasing and foreplay and making me FEEL desired and sexual. He is also very honest about his shortcomings and draws clear boundaries for himself. He never lets me walk all over him. We are at times brutally mean with our teasing of each other...which makes our chemistry even more explosive. The things I've teased him about...if I were to have said those things to the geologist, he may have broken down in tears or reacted quietly and sadly. My man now just smacks my ass and dishes it back more. He has completely enraptured me because I find his confidence and cheekiness magnetic. He's still sweet, considerate and is emotionally *there* for me, he just seems like much more of a complete, happy person than the others I've dated.

 

I know you don't want to hear "learn confidence", but I am being completely honest here...I would find the prospect of a relationship with you terrifying. So many expectations, so much bitterness, so much seriousness. Maybe that makes me a crap person or your typical "woman" - I can only be honest about what is a turn on and what is not.

[oldshirt]

Ok. I read everything you wrote. And pretty much agree with it.

 

I'd describe myself as laid-back, social, able to get along with anyone, cute in a tomboy way, super low maintenance. Late twenties, maybe not as established in my career as I could have been if it wasn't for being distracted by music festivals with my friends, road trips, and an admitted general lack of focus when it comes to work. Basically, building a great career means less to me right now than having fun. Just letting you know how I am...I'm aware not all women like you describe are underachievers like me, but maybe this colors how I choose mates...

 

I dated a guy earlier this year who was sculpted by the gods. He was 6'3, athletic, dressed well, had an adorable cheeky smile, and made BANK as a geologist. Same age as me. He was super nice and accommodating, played the music he knows I like, became BFFs with my dog, showed interest in my hobbies, and made time for me any day of the week I wanted/was free. I lost interest in him after a few weeks, honestly. Our conversations never flowed, he was painfully awkward with physical affection, could never look me in the eye, and never disagreed or challenged anything I said. He also never left his apartment...which was palatial, by the way. But he would just stay at home in his expensive ass robe listening to music and working...if we ever went out, he would have 1 or 2 drinks at most and keep quietly to himself. He never said a word during sex, and also seemed to always have a difficult time getting off and would often stop before doing so. Which made me feel...weird and uncomfortable. I love watching a guy's face when he comes. That never happened. He also would repeat verbatim things I'd text him. "Hahah that chinese place was weird, but at least the food was good :D"-me, a couple seconds later I get "Hahah it WAS weird, but the food was really good :D" complete with same spelling and emoticon. I understand it's tough when you don't have much experience, but I assumed surely a 28 year old man knows a woman wants someone who is their own person?

 

Right now, I'm 3 months into dating a guy who all my friends think is wayyy below me in looks. He's an inch shorter than me, has a belly, wears dumb t-shirts and cargo shorts all the time, and is also a underachiever career-wise. I'm CRAZY for him. He's witty and confident and has tons of friends. He is passionate about his hobbies and is always willing to take risks for the sake of adventure. He makes friends easily wherever he goes. Unlike with my exes, I'm not afraid of inviting him to an event where he doesn't know many people, because I don't have to babysit him, he can just...TALK to people. Sometimes I see him across the room laughing with one of my friends he introduced himself to, and it makes me heart flutter. It makes me want to tear his clothes off afterwards. Well, that and he knows how to talk to a woman in bed (which is a super underrated skill). Truly, he is amazing in bed, and it's not like he has the biggest equipment or even the most crazy skills in general...he's just great at teasing and foreplay and making me FEEL desired and sexual. He is also very honest about his shortcomings and draws clear boundaries for himself. He never lets me walk all over him. We are at times brutally mean with our teasing of each other...which makes our chemistry even more explosive. The things I've teased him about...if I were to have said those things to the geologist, he may have broken down in tears or reacted quietly and sadly. My man now just smacks my ass and dishes it back more. He has completely enraptured me because I find his confidence and cheekiness magnetic. He's still sweet, considerate and is emotionally *there* for me, he just seems like much more of a complete, happy person than the others I've dated.

 

I know you don't want to hear "learn confidence", but I am being completely honest here...I would find the prospect of a relationship with you terrifying. So many expectations, so much bitterness, so much seriousness. Maybe that makes me a crap person or your typical "woman" - I can only be honest about what is a turn on and what is not.

 

 

You heard it right from the horses mouth.

 

 

(I will reference this post again shortly)

[MissBee]

I'm gonna be honest and say that when a man places his lack of success in dating on ALL women or when women do the same on all men, my ears close and my eyes roll and I don't bother to listen. Reason being is that it's not true. Point blank period. And there are tons of cases to prove opposite.

 

The idea that only players and jerks get dates or only rich, famous or very good looking men get women is ridiculous.

 

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by blaming women for your dating failures, as it seems by blaming women you'll just be resentful towards them which will show and only make things worse for you.

 

If you can't get a date with ANYONE then the problem must be you. It seems illogical that it's a fault with every single woman you've met. What do your female friends think? Perhaps you can tell them your issue and see if they have any feedback since they know you offline. Are they dating jerks too?

[oldshirt]

For those who say I'm arrogant; I'm REALLY not. If I were, I honestly think I'd actually have more luck....

 

 

 

yes you probably would

 

 

 

I've approached dating with a sense of hope and naive optimism whenever it's been so much as a glint on the horizon.

Like I said, I wasn't always this bitter and sobered. I've just been a non-entity in the dating world, who has been walked all over too many times.

 

theres never an excuse to get walked all over. The irony is once set a hard boundary and not let anyone walk on you, you opportunities invariably increase.

 

But your scars and pain from the past are real. As this is affecting your well being and ability to function as a normal healthy person, some therapy may be very beneficial to you.

 

 

When I was describing how I look, dress etc, I was only clarifying that I'm otherwise a completely normal guy. I'm not one of those guys you can smell at twenty paces, or wears clothes that are more hole than fabric, or has a face that resembles a potato. It was only to spell out that there's nothing ridiculously undateable about me.

 

 

actually you sound like a very good guy and a worthy partner. You are missing one key ingredient that some others have mentioned. I will highlight that in another post and tie it back in to SimSim's post above.

 

The real rub here is the smelly potato heads with the tattered clothes and missing teeth, have girlfriends and wives etc. it's just they have that piece you are missing.

 

You can all hate on me all you like, but I just had to vent my frustration and bitterness on an anonymous medium since I would never share such bold or honest opinions in reality for the fear of offending anyone I know.

 

no one is hating you at all. We all understand where you are coming from and have felt the same way ourselves at various times. We have just been able to get through to the other side and see it for the false reality that it is. You just haven't got there yet and are falling for the false realities and delusions.

 

 

 

 

I really appreciate the constructive thoughts on letting go of the past, but I've simply missed the train on all this.

 

there is no train. There is only life and life begins again with each new day.

 

 

Any girl above the age of eighteen is expecting someone with more experience than I have, so I'd rather save myself the further embarrassment.

 

that's another delusion and false reality. Women have no clue how much experience you have or haven't had. And they couldn't care less even if they did know. They only know how you make them feel. If you don't make a woman feel sexy and desired, you won't get anywhere with her no matter how much experience you've had in the past. Conversely if you do make her feel right, you stand a chance, regardless of how little experience you've had.

 

I've just reached a point where I can't afford to invest anymore.

 

 

"investment" is the right word to use here because it's very applicable. You have some great investments that have potential for great returns ie education, nice clothes, healthy body, music, hobbies, social skills, good career etc etc.

 

However you are missing some key pieces of the equation that are required to make the jump and bridge the gap from a friend or colleague or woman you meet on the street to a potential date or lover or girlfriend etc.

 

By adjusting the portfolio to address those objectives, your rate of return in the love department can be much greater.

 

More on that in next post.

 

 

See responses in bold above

[oldshirt]

Women are attracted to men who express desire for them. These other men do that. You restrain your desire for them and they cant feel sexual around you much less desired in any way.

 

 

You don't seduce with rational self pride. You seduce with emotions and aggressive desire for 'her'. Let yourself go, relax and be the man that makes you comfortable in your own skin and you'll have a woman in no time.

 

Ok now here is what I think is the missing piece of the puzzle here. Read the statements above.

 

The thing that separates our "special someone" from all the other friends, family, coworkers, fishing buddies etc in our lives and makes them 'special' is romance/sexuality.

 

A person that respects and admires your work and education and accomplishments but for which there is no sexual chemistry or banter or flirtation is called a colleague. Someone that has those things but also has a romantic/sexual relationship to go along with it is called a girlfriend. Someone who those things but has formalized the relationship and committed to making last both spiritually and legally is called a wife.

 

With romance/sexuality, there can be no romance or sexuality. Without romance/sexuality there can be no attraction or desire and with attraction and desire there can be no romance or sexuality.

 

What makes a man a man is his desire and ability to assert himself sexually. A woman cannot typically feel attraction or desire for a man unless he can make her feel sexy and desirable ABOUT HERSELF.

 

A mans ability to do that is called "Responsive Desire". Look it up. In a nutshell a woman's desire is stimulated and initiated by his attention and his desire for her. A guy could be the richest, handsomest man in the world but if he shows zero desire for her, she won't be able to desire him. And is he can't make her feel sexy and wanted and appreciated and desired, her desire for him will fail to launch.

 

(Now she may want his money and his status etc, but that is a different topic. My point is she won't feel any true desire for him.).

 

Things like education, career, money, clothes, music, hobbies, friends etc etc make you a healthy, well-rounded person, but they don't stimulate attraction, desire or arousal in and of themselves.

 

The "X-Factor" that separates the common man from the man that makes a woman's heart go litter pat and what ultimately makes her panties hit the floor is very often Responsive Desire. This is why the smelly, toothless potato head can still get a girl. And why the clean, educated, responsible, nice guy can not.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, you are very rigid and very reserved and "contained" in your sexuality and there for by default your are suppressed in your masculinity.

 

Guys that get lots of chicks wear their sexuality on their sleeves. They don't hide nor suppress nor deny their sexual nature. They don't apologize for being horny and sexually assertive. They don't try to mask their attraction and desire for women by hiding behind facades of indifference or of asexuality. They don't fear rejection and they don't fear being thought of as "creepy."

 

They may freak out and turn off a lot of women and make a lot of women uncomfortable (and a lot of men uncomfortable too) but they also bang a lot of other chicks too.

 

Your bitterness and your resentment and your fear of rejection and being judged has hamstrung you into hiding and suppressing your nature desire for love and sexuality.

 

By hiding your sexuality you have taken away that one thing thing that stimulates sexual attraction and desire the most. In terms of 'investment' you have taken the resource that has the highest return in sexuality and divvied those resources up into other things that really don't generate attraction.

 

Now, go back and read SimSim's post again and hear her tell that to you in her own words and from her own personal experience.

 

The shields you are putting up to protect your own heart and ego are what is blocking you from sending out the signals that often matter most.

[WWDD]

Don’t take this as hating on you… But maybe you don’t want to date or find a mate.

 

Would I really be here if that were true?

 

This has resulted in a very rigid format in your mind of what "works" vs "what doesn't work". You are much like the character of Sheldon on the TV show ' The Big Bang Theory.' He is very rigid and absolutist in his beliefs do to his knowledge of how things have played out in the distant past.

 

I have visions of you being slighted or rejected by a 15 year old girl at the big dance in March of 2005 in favor of the boisterous jock. Those memories are still fresh in your mind and the dynamics and algorithms of how the events came to pass are well imbedded in your memories.

 

The problem is it is now 2014, you are now and educated, gainfully employed adult male with clear skin as the acne cleared up in 2008 and that self-centered, entitled 15 year drama queen is now also an educated and socialized adult who has learned humility and has learned to recognize and appreciated the qualities in other people.

 

I'm nothing like Sheldon. TRUST ME.

If I had to choose a fictional character to compare myself to, I would have to say I'm like a slightly MORE sociable (and obviously non-murderous) Dexter Morgan. I make an effort to be normal, sociable and accepted (I like to think that I do a better job of it than he does), but keep a lot to myself.

 

No, I never went to the 'Big Dance'. Wouldn't have found anyone to go with me. And no, I never had acne, my complexion was always okay.

 

Pray tell, what are we really? Because I read his first post and nothing in there described anything remotely recognizable to me as a woman.

 

Like I preempted, no women seem to recognize it in themselves.It's in the psyche.

 

But you could definitely be a very rare and refreshing woman. I never said that no woman ever breaks through it, just that it's the programming women naturally have, just like the vast majority of men are programmed to automatically gravitate towards the most physically attractive women (which I also think is unfair). In the case of both men and women, it's a rare and refreshing thing when this innate programming is broken through. Personally, superficiality was never an option for me.

 

I would find the prospect of a relationship with you terrifying. So many expectations, so much bitterness, so much seriousness. Maybe that makes me a crap person or your typical "woman" - I can only be honest about what is a turn on and what is not.

 

Like I said, I don't convey this in person. At least, I don't think I do, and none of my friends seem to think think so either (even my female friends).

 

The idea that only players and jerks get dates or only rich, famous or very good looking men get women is ridiculous.

 

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by blaming women for your dating failures, as it seems by blaming women you'll just be resentful towards them which will show and only make things worse for you.

 

If you can't get a date with ANYONE then the problem must be you. It seems illogical that it's a fault with every single woman you've met. What do your female friends think? Perhaps you can tell them your issue and see if they have any feedback since they know you offline. Are they dating jerks too?

 

I never said ONLY players and jerks get dates. I just mentioned that it does a lot for one's chances.

 

And for the third time, I'm not blaming woman, simply saying that it is the way it is. I even said this in my OP.

What frustrates me is that I've never had a chance in the first place. I aspire to getting far enough to 'fail'. I have already admitted that a lot of it is me, but it annoys me how such a small hangup in this way can have such a negative impact, when there are WAY worse hangups that women are seemingly happy to accept.

Edited October 22, 2014 by WWDD

[LostOnes05]

I can definitely sympathize with you WWDD

[LostOnes05]

Dumbass phone...anyway I understand where you are coming from, as I have felt the same way lately. When I am trying to get to know someone (and apparently this is a bad thing nowadays) I actually invest my time in getting to know them. Because of this I too have been played, led on, and any other adjective you could use. I've only been in one relationship and if I could have that time back(5yrs), knowing what I know about her now I'd treat her like the gum my friend stepped in today...but I digress. I too have been told the same thing as you..."how do you not have a girlfriend? " and the list goes on. I think oldshirt gave some really sound advice. I take ownership of being bitter sometimes about it because I've interacted with women who have been beaten, lied to, cheated on by genuinely crappy guys but they love them. In some cases, have even married them. I've even had numerous girls I tried to date say that I was perfect, which ticked me off because if that was the case why not date me?

 

I agree that women don't really know what they want (at least the ones I've come across). They tend to say one thing and do the complete opposite. I got to the point after being led on the last two times that I ended up deleting my OLD profile. I decided to rededicate my time to myself and put women on the backburner for now. However, I too desire to have that part of my life fulfilled by woman who can have those deep, meaningful conversations, a sense of humor, and actually mean what they say. But again some really great advice in this thread.

[heartshaped]

I actually read all that and typically, I don't read long posts.

 

I disagree with everyone. I don't think your attitude is your problem at all. Yes, you feel this way, but I doubt you go around telling women this (which you confirmed you don't) and unless this just pours out of every romantic interaction with you (which again I doubt it does) this isn't your problem.

 

Your problem is you're Mr. Nice Guy. Honestly, I could smell it on you even before you said it.

 

Listen, there's being nice and then there's being Mr. Nice Guy. Every woman wants a man that treats her well, but women don't want Mr. Nice Guy. If the first quality a woman comes up with to describe you is "nice" then you have no hope of a romantic relationship with said woman. Nice is for relatives, old people, and friends. Nice is not for people you have sex with or date.

 

All this friendly, shy, nice guy crap? You might as well shoot yourself in the foot.

 

By the time women get to know you and how great you are they've already friendzoned you. Some may try to then develop feelings for you after becoming aware of your interest or maybe simply because you're a great catch, but in their minds that can't get past the roadblock where they see you as just a friend.

 

People, men and women, get friendzoned all the time, but you are living in the friendzone. Living in it.

 

Am I saying you shouldn't be yourself? No, not at all. But you have to be more forward and more flirtatious. Women aren't obsessed with sex, but they want/need to know that your interest in them is romantic. It's simple things- maintaining eye contact, light physical contact, flirting, etc. These things also need to escalate over time.

 

Online dating would be wonderful for you as long as you keep it short. You need more confidence and charisma than I believe you have to do the cold approach. The cold approach is rough. You never know what mindset the woman is in, whether she is in a relationship, etc.

 

What I mean by keeping things short online is don't message a woman a million times before asking for her phone number. Chat with her a bit initially, ask for her phone number, call her do not text, and ask her out on something that is explicitly a date. Use the word date if you have to.

 

Once you get that first date, at least, you have the attempt to fail or succeed and you've gotten yourself out of this friend box you keep conveniently putting yourself in.

 

Oh and stop being so down about this all. I seriously doubt you'll be alone forever.

[WWDD]

Thanks for the constructive comments, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, they only confirm my fears.

 

 

Women have no clue how much experience you have or haven't had. And they couldn't care less even if they did know. They only know how you make them feel. If you don't make a woman feel sexy and desired, you won't get anywhere with her no matter how much experience you've had in the past. Conversely if you do make her feel right, you stand a chance, regardless of how little experience you've had.

 

But they do know, and they DEFINITELY care. I even said in my OP that they seem to be able to sniff it on me, I might as well be carrying a leper bell.

 

Your problem is you're Mr. Nice Guy. Honestly, I could smell it on you even before you said it.

 

......See what I mean? It's like living in Japan while trying to hide the fact that you can't speak a word of Japanese.

 

I've read on forums where women have unanimously agreed that they would never date a virgin because there must be something wrong with them. Honestly, I can't fault their logic.

 

It's that same knee-jerk reaction on the face every time someone finds out the truth about me that is so soul destroying. It's just a small reaction in the eyes that they cover up well, but you can tell that for a split second their mind is doing this:

 

 

Like the first girl I ever asked out (officially). She was enthusiastic to going out with me but asked me politely if I would like to go as friends. When we went out I mentioned that she was the first girl I'd ever properly asked out (I didn't just blurt that out to her, it was totally in context to the conversation), and she gave that very same subtle but involuntary reaction. She might as well have started retching.

 

By hiding your sexuality you have taken away that one thing thing that stimulates sexual attraction and desire the most. In terms of 'investment' you have taken the resource that has the highest return in sexuality and divvied those resources up into other things that really don't generate attraction.

The shields you are putting up to protect your own heart and ego are what is blocking you from sending out the signals that often matter most.

Am I saying you shouldn't be yourself? No, not at all. But you have to be more forward and more flirtatious. Women aren't obsessed with sex, but they want/need to know that your interest in them is romantic. It's simple things- maintaining eye contact, light physical contact, flirting, etc. These things also need to escalate over time.

 

And this is exactly why I'm screwed. I never had a chance to learn how to flirt and certainly never will now. It's just something you have to learn at a time when everybody else is in the same boat. At a certain point flirting and experience become a necessity for each other, and you can't have one without already having the other.

 

Oh and stop being so down about this all. I seriously doubt you'll be alone forever.

 

I haven't even started the marathon and everybody else is already three hours ahead. No one's going to want to run back for me.

 

All this friendly, shy, nice guy crap? You might as well shoot yourself in the foot.

 

I'd prefer the head.

Edited October 22, 2014 by WWDD

[smackie9]

I'll chime in in regards to virginity and inexperience. When you have reached your twenties, and you have like barely kissed a girl or touched a vigina, women see that as being a coward. Like what was mentioned, you fear to show sexual desire. Being a man, is expressing horniness (not being a perv) but shown it by friendly banter, flirting, forwardness, and confidence. If rejected, a man with confidence doesn't stomp off, and becomes bitter, or gets his hate on, he takes it as a challenge or he smiles and lets it roll off his back, moves on.

 

Girls don't lead you on, they just lost interest because something turned them off. This happens to everyone. I have dated a lot, and I remember those times being very interested in someone, we go out have a great time, etc, but then there was not enough chemistry or their feelings were too strong. I have been honest as to why I was ending it, but it didn't really matter, I would get accused of leading them on, when all I was doing was getting to know them and see if there was a connection. So I can see why these girls lied and backed out. Too avoid that confrontation.

[WWDD]

When you have reached your twenties, and you have like barely kissed a girl or touched a vigina, women see that as being a coward. Like what was mentioned, you fear to show sexual desire.

 

I hope you're not saying you think that's fair. It's just another vicious circle.

 

When guys like me never got a chance to build up any romantic confidence at an age when it's okay to be learning, where else are we supposed to do it if women won't come near us for that very reason? Like I said, a guy's confidence is expected to just be on tap. Are those of us who aren't infallible robots not worth the chance?

If men were as presumptuous of women as women are of men, no one would ever date.

 

I would never consider myself a coward. I've needed the bravery to overcome things in my life that would make most people crumble. Scarred is a better description.

When it comes to women, I don't have a fear of rejection; I'm used to that. I don't have a fear of response, as I'm prepared to turn the tables on a little princess if she's unfairly rude to me.

What I have a fear of is showing any of my cards, as I know exactly what happens every time I do.

 

If I were to have met even a single woman who had the patience to give me a chance to catch up in this respect, I'd be an entirely different person.

 

Girls don't lead you on, they just lost interest because something turned them off.

 

No woman ever thinks they lead guys on. You probably don't, but your comment is not generally true. I know this for a FACT.

 

I know one friend who went for a meal with a girl who told him at the end of the night that she just wanted to be friends. Fair enough right? It would have been if she hadn't held that back until the moment he paid her bill.......

 

My most recent experience is a case of REALLY being messed around and lead on. To explain it would need another wall of text like my first post, so I'm not going to go into it, but if I wasn't lead on then I must have been talking to two different girls who shared the same phone number.

Edited October 23, 2014 by WWDD

[smackie9]

 

 

No woman ever thinks they lead guys on. You probably don't, but your comment is not generally true. I know this for a FACT.

 

I know one friend who went for a meal with a girl who told him at the end of the night that she just wanted to be friends. Fair enough right? It would have been if she hadn't held that back until the moment he paid her bill.......

 

.

 

This is your problem right here. How can a girl know she even likes you if she doesn't go out on a date with you to get to know you. Would you prefer her to not give you a chance? And just judge you before you even have a chance to ask her out? Obviously your friend was attractive enough for her to say yes to a date. During that date, she discovered there wasn't a connection. As a rule of dating, one who asks for the date, pays. Offering to pay for half is to one's discretion. I have taken guys out on dates and paid. If they were not interested in taking things further I would still insist on paying.

In the dating game, I perfer honesty, rather than be told, that they would go out with me again, but only to be avoided when that time came. Danmed if women say no, say yes, say not interested, maybe, I might, not sure, possibly, etc. You and your friend just don't get it. A paid date doesn't guarantee or grant you a relationship. That my dear is just the way it is. If you don't like it then dating isn't for you, you may as well give it up.

[WWDD]

This is your problem right here. How can a girl know she even likes you if she doesn't go out on a date with you to get to know you. Would you prefer her to not give you a chance? And just judge you before you even have a chance to ask her out? Obviously your friend was attractive enough for her to say yes to a date. During that date, she discovered there wasn't a connection. As a rule of dating, one who asks for the date, pays. Offering to pay for half is to one's discretion. I have taken guys out on dates and paid. If they were not interested in taking things further I would still insist on paying.

 

I'll repeat for a third time that it was her exact timing that was suspect. It just wouldn't be rightly acceptable if it was the other way round.

Besides, since it's the guy who has to sort the date 99.9% of the time, does that mean the man has to pay for the woman 99.9% of the time?

 

A lot of people say that if there's no spark, it's only fair that each pay their own. Not necessarily my opinion, just theories I've heard.

Personally, I wouldn't feel right letting a girl pay for me, even if SHE asked ME out. In fact, I'd probably pay for her anyway, but I suppose that just makes me presumptuous. I tend to be too quick to pay for other people as well as myself.

 

But it doesn't matter, because you've taken the topic into an area that's purely theoretical to me. Never had a date.

 

In the dating game, I perfer honesty, rather than be told, that they would go out with me again, but only to be avoided when that time came.

 

That's exactly what a girl did to me. When I asked her out, she only wanted to go out as friends and let me buy her a drink (which I'm fine with as I insisted). She gave me the whole 'not looking for a relationship right now' bit, which is fair enough. But she was always up for seeing me again, would suggest doing romantic things like just the two of us going skating, or going to the cinema alone. She would initiate hugs (and she wasn't a generally touchy-feely girl). She'd text me out of blue about really random and insignificant stuff as if it was only to start a conversation. When I'd make plans with her, she'd be all up for it and we'd plan an activity on a day. But when it came to sorting the time she'd go vague and make things uneasy, but when I backed off she would insist she wanted to see me, and then she'd go all vague and difficult again. I don't know what her game was, but honesty would have saved me a lot of trouble, hurt feelings and even more lost confidence.

 

And yes, I've already given up with the idea of dating, I guess you didn't read my OP either. It's obvious I'm not worthy of love so I'm going to stop causing such inconvenience to women.

Edited October 23, 2014 by WWDD

[smackie9]

Your attitude stinks, it's no wonder.

[smackie9]

BTW if a girl wants to just be friends, and she gets all affectionate, there is nothing stopping you from setting boundaries, and letting her know, it's not acceptable unless you are dating each other. Simple as that. It's your own damn fault for letting her keep doing it. And if they get flaky on you, there is nothing stopping you from telling them to go away or stop contact.

[WWDD]

Your attitude stinks, it's no wonder.

 

Thanks. I don't know what it was in my last post that gave you this impression, it was quite objective. Anybody who knows me in person would say my problem is too far the opposite, but thanks for putting my life into perspective.

 

I mean do you really expect me to be polite to someone as rude as yourself? I think you should read post #41 and interpret it as if I was directing it to you.

 

BTW if a girl wants to just be friends, and she gets all affectionate, there is nothing stopping you from setting boundaries, and letting her know, it's not acceptable unless you are dating each other. Simple as that. It's your own damn fault for letting her keep doing it. And if they get flaky on you, there is nothing stopping you from telling them to go away or stop contact.

 

So, it's my fault for having an attitude that 'stinks', but it's also my fault completely for allowing a girl to immorally fuc|< me about? Classic female mentality right there. My fault no matter who does what. Doesn't the simple fact that I've allowed someone to do that to me imply that maybe my attitude isn't as bad as you seem to think?

 

I don't know you, but from what you've contributed, you are just an awful, awful person.

 

I come on here, driven to frustration, just wanting someone to share time with, angry that I only get either ignored or played, left knowing it's too late in life for me to even begin to know what love might be like, and someone like you comes in and makes me the bad guy. Like I said, I just can't bring myself to try anymore.

Edited October 23, 2014 by WWDD

[smackie9]

If you let them when they clearly stated "just friends" then yes it is your fault.

[smackie9]

I have a lot of experience, you don't. That doesn't make me an awuful person when I am telling you the honest truth.

[WWDD]

If you let them when they clearly stated "just friends" then yes it is your fault.

Wow. What a flippant and self-entitled presumption. Glad I never dated you.

Besides, I wanted something to develop, so why the hell would I put up boundaries?

 

I bet you didn't feel that way when someone did that to you. Or was that always your job?

 

I have a lot of experience, you don't. That doesn't make me an awuful person when I am telling you the honest truth.

So I'm the ******* for being inexperienced? Tell me something new.

 

Did you read post #41? I think there's something you can take from it.

Edited October 23, 2014 by WWDD

[WWDD]

I already know that I could never be loved. The positive and negative comments have all confirmed what I really knew from the start; I've missed the boat and am left without another opportunity. A mix between really bad luck and insecurity has left me lonely, frustrated, bitter and even more unlovable.

 

You've all clued me in to the one and only remaining thing that I'm able to do to ensure that I avoid a long lonely life, so thank you all.

 

Signing out.

[HereNorThere]

First - Have you ever been tested for any kind of developmental disorder like aspergers? Your super logical way of looking at this, along with the fact that you said you were an engineer, is kind of a give away that you have some sort of social issues.

 

Second - No one has to know you're a virgin. Till this day, the woman who took my virginity has no idea.

 

Third - Here's your issue, sexuality is not a logical thing. You're trying to logic something that's emotional. You're saying I have this, this and this, so logically I should have this and I don't. That's simply not how sexuality works. You need to put the right vibe and make someone feel a certain way. You have to learn how to make someone feel that way about you.

 

My suggestion is to read some advice on how to make people feel a certain way and put off a certain vibe. It sounds like could make a really good online dating profile. Online dating profiles are just a picture and a checklist, period. Make the profile, go on many, many dates and figure out how to make someone feel a certain way. Once you do that, the rest is history.

 

Good luck and it is possible man. I get jaded like you do when I'm in a slump sometimes, but I go back out there and try again. You gotta keep trying, without forcing it. Have a good time and put out a good vibe!

 

*and I don't think the pick-up artist community is really that health especially the with the way it's going now, but I do think you should read Neil Strauss's book - The Game. I'm not saying to go out and "sarge" but pick up the concepts, see what they are really doing. Once you're out there, you'll start noticing what they call IOI's (indicators of interests) and you'll you'll have a better understanding who is attracted to you and for what reasons. It's crazy because some girls that SHOULD be attracted to me sometimes aren't, but sometimes someone who I would never think in a million years actually is. If you don't know what to look for, you'll never know. These things are said through body language and actions, not words.

Edited October 23, 2014 by HereNorThere

[smackie9]

As soon they say "lets be friends" nothing will develop. This is a cowards way of trying to gain attraction.... it has never worked for you now has it? You just go off about being led on. They told you friends, and you need to take their word for it.

 

Anyways I have coached guy worse than you. And what you say is nothing I haven't heard before. They learned from my instructions, worked with them, and they have GFs now or at least getting laid. All it was, was a change in perspective, and bam it worked.

[MissTrudy]

I already know that I could never be loved. The positive and negative comments have all confirmed what I really knew from the start; I've missed the boat and am left without another opportunity. A mix between really bad luck and insecurity has left me lonely, frustrated, bitter and even more unlovable.

 

You've all clued me in to the one and only remaining thing that I'm able to do to ensure that I avoid a long lonely life, so thank you all.

 

Signing out.

 

With this type of attitude you are going to end up never finding love. before you seek love and affirmation from others (especially complete strangers on an internet forum) you need to learn to love yourself and give yourself positive affirmations for your existence. There's nothing wrong with you except your mindset, and fortunately that can be changed. but if you don't change it you're going to continue being miserable.

 

A lot of these posts were extremely long so I didn't read absolutely everything but I think I have a general idea. I am going to suggest that you be more proactive and stop whining.

 

You've never been on a date. have you tried approaching women? how do you go about it? Have you tried OLD? Have you asked friends to introduce you to single mutual friends? What have you done besides complain to remedy the situation?

 

I know so many inexperienced guys and girls in their mid-20s who used OLD and it worked wonders. My bf was actually very inexperienced before we started dating; he had gone on a few dates with girls he had met online but nothing came of those dates, and I was his first everything. But he got me because he didn't give up, and he wasn't bitter about or towards women. He never made a big deal about being inexperienced and I only found out about it after we had a talk about safe sex. If he went on and on about how he constantly felt rejected by women I would've stopped seeing him because I don't have time to hear about that...especially being a woman showing interest in him.

 

I have a female friend who had never been on a date before signing up for OKC (and actually, our friends made a profile for her in a drunken haze because she wasn't going to do it) and she's in an awesome relationship with a guy she met there, they've been together for over a year now.

 

Most of the guys I've dated I've met online. I dated three guys I met through friends or at parties, but the grand majority (two serious boyfriends, 6 guys I've dated casually). I'm also a late bloomer too, I didn't go on my first date until I was 21, which is like ancient for a girl! I used to think something was wrong with me because I didn't date at all in college, and guys only started showing interest in me during my senior year, but I realized it wasn't me, it was the community I was living in, which had a huge hookup culture that I wasn't buying into and also wasn't very ethnically diverse (I'm not white). But by that point I had a degree from a prestigious institution, I was starting a graduate degree at another prestigious institution in a new diverse city, and I saw in myself that I was a catch and it was only a matter of time before I found a guy who also saw that. You need to develop that type of mindset and recognize your own value, and what you'd bring to a relationship. Right now you just bring resentment, and nobody has time for that!

 

I suggest you sign up for OLD and start going on dates. Message people who seem interesting to you, that you

I already know that I could never be loved. The positive and negative comments have all confirmed what I really knew from the start; I've missed the boat and am left without another opportunity. A mix between really bad luck and insecurity has left me lonely, frustrated, bitter and even more unlovable.

 

You've all clued me in to the one and only remaining thing that I'm able to do to ensure that I avoid a long lonely life, so thank you all.

 

Signing out.

 

With this type of attitude you are going to end up never finding love. before you seek love and affirmation from others (especially complete strangers on an internet forum) you need to learn to love yourself and give yourself positive affirmations for your existence. There's nothing wrong with you except your mindset, and fortunately that can be changed. but if you don't change it you're going to continue being miserable.

 

A lot of these posts were extremely long so I didn't read absolutely everything but I think I have a general idea. I am going to suggest that you be more proactive and stop whining.

 

You've never been on a date. have you tried approaching women? how do you go about it? Have you tried OLD? Have you asked friends to introduce you to single mutual friends? What have you done besides complain to remedy the situation?

 

I know so many inexperienced guys and girls in their mid-20s who used OLD and it worked wonders. My bf was actually very inexperienced before we started dating; he had gone on a few dates with girls he had met online but nothing came of those dates, and I was his first everything. But he got me because he didn't give up, and he wasn't bitter about or towards women. He never made a big deal about being inexperienced and I only found out about it after we had a talk about safe sex. If he went on and on about how he constantly felt rejected by women I would've stopped seeing him because I don't have time to hear about that...especially being a woman showing interest in him.

 

I have a female friend who had never been on a date before signing up for OKC (and actually, our friends made a profile for her in a drunken haze because she wasn't going to do it) and she's in an awesome relationship with a guy she met there, they've been together for over a year now.

 

Most of the guys I've dated I've met online. I dated three guys I met through friends or at parties, but the grand majority (two serious boyfriends, 6 guys I've dated casually). I'm also a late bloomer too, I didn't go on my first date until I was 21, which is like ancient for a girl! I used to think something was wrong with me because I didn't date at all in college, and guys only started showing interest in me during my senior year, but I realized it wasn't me, it was the community I was living in, which had a huge hookup culture that I wasn't buying into and also wasn't very ethnically diverse (I'm not white). But by that point I had a degree from a prestigious institution, I was starting a graduate degree at another prestigious institution in a new diverse city, and I saw in myself that I was a catch and it was only a matter of time before I found a guy who also saw that. You need to develop that type of mindset and recognize your own value, and what you'd bring to a relationship. Right now you just bring resentment, and nobody has time for that!

 

I suggest you sign up for OLD and start going on dates. Message people who seem interesting to you, that you think you would get along with as a partner or friend. I know you're not trying to meet new friends, but you need to go on dates with an open mind. Even if they aren't successful (most won't be; I never asked my bf how many he went on before we started dating, but I know it was a decent amount). You need to put yourself out there to meet new women and be a little vulnerable. Dont be surprised if you get rejected a few times. Don't go into it looking to meet the love of your life. You may get lucky and you may not. But I think you need to start forming positive relationships with women who aren't your family, co-workers, or friends. think you would get along with as a partner or friend. I know you're not trying to meet new friends, but you need to go on dates with an open mind. Even if they aren't successful, you need to start forming positive relationships with women who aren't your family, co-workers, or friends.

 

In sum, you need to be a bit more proactive before you resign yourself. You should never resign yourself either. It could take years to find a good partner. but you'll appreciate her all the more once you get her, then. And she'll appreciate you if you are mentally present in the relationship and not worried about whether you are suitable/worthy. Good luck and dont give up

[maysj18]

I didn't read the other responses but I just had to tell you that you sound exactly like someone I know. He is actually an absolute charmer BUT in situations where something could happen, he gets soo weird. I know it's because he's nervous but as a normal woman, I'm nervous too. Those things are off putting because it comes off as though he doesn't want it.

 

Now, I also dated a guy who was a virgin by choice but he was so confident and dominating (in a good way) that his inexperience wasn't even noticeable. It was crazy. While we never had sex, that spark was enough to keep the fire lit.

 

For me, feeling desired and wanted by someone I'm dating is the biggest turn on. You don't have to be the most confident guy in the world, just be confident in what you want. I don't care how attractive or successful someone is, that X factor has to be there.