An 'Ugly Woman's' Response to Being Mistreated

[Maleficent]

It only really works if you see each sex as a monolithic hive-minded entity devoid of personal preference and incapable of change.

 

Then, anything one member of the hive says applies to the entire collective.

 

Confusion sets in one member makes a statement contradictory to what another has previously stated.

 

It almost leads one to conclude that women are individuals.

 

That was kind of a rhetorical question but thanks

[SpiralOut]

I am wondering if the guys realized this girl was part of the group of friends? No it's not mean to not pay for someone's club entrance, but if you see a group of girls, know that they are all friends, and you pay for ALL of them except for one, yeah that kinda is mean.

 

 

I hope this won't stop her from dressing up again in the future.

[OwMyEyeball]

That was kind of a rhetorical question but thanks

Any time, good sir!

[HopelessRomantic76]

It's unfortunate but it's life.

 

Even when I was married I was nicer to good looking men as opposed to unattractive men and it wasn't necessarily a conscious decision it's science

 

Being around good looking people make us feel good even babies are nicer to good looking people.

[FitChick]

Being around good looking people make us feel good even babies are nicer to good looking people.

So how do babies treat ugly people? Pee on them?

[Maleficent]

Any time, good sir!

 

I'm a woman.

[Natsu21]

I'm a woman.

 

Lol. That's funny.

[Natsu21]

I have a few issues with this woman. One of them was that she views herself as ugly. She screams low self-esteem. Looks are purely subjective to public opinion, even if that public opinion has a common preference.

 

So for a low self-esteem chick to walk into a club, thinking that somehow, an extremely shallow setting like that would up her self-esteem, kinda was asking for a bad night. She felt entitled to being noticed like all the other girls around there. I'm a guy who has been rejected more times than I can remember. If a bad night at the club makes you want to cry out in shame, then she wouldn't survive a day in my shoes.

 

Truth of the matter is, it hurts when people reject you, but it's not necessarily a MEAN thing, unless your friends left you hanging out in the club, or ditched you to get with the hot guys, or called you a tub of lard. THOSE ARE mean. She just wasn't the center of attention and views it as a personal crime.

 

I don't feel sorry for what happened to her. I feel sorry that she felt she deserved more attention than other girls in a CLUB...where everything is based on appearance and status. No one goes there for fair treatment, it's a hook-up and get free drinks kinda deal. Maybe a better idea would have been not to go

 

Truth is that some people are seen by more people as more physically attractive than others, and that's something that everyone has to accept. That doesn't mean you aren't attractive. It doesn't mean you are repulsive. But you have to live with yourself, so treat yourself better, don't you think?

Edited October 26, 2014 by Natsu21

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I hope you aren't referring to me personally, because I've never expected that sort of thing. I do think it's unfair of them to decide to pay for her friends, but leave her out in the cold.

 

I don't care about third-wave feminism. I'm referring to kindness. These guys offered to pay - I don't think that they asked them to, did they?

 

Any "you" in my post was in general.

 

Nevertheless, while it's definitely a kind thing to pay for someone's entry into a club, not doing so is certainly not unkind IMO. We're not talking a single mom being a couple bucks short at the grocery store checkstand; this is a dance club. No one was obligated to pay her way, I don't care how many other girls they paid for. She was literally upset that someone didn't fork over money for her good time, just because they did it for her friends.

 

I can understand not buying a woman a drink or dancing with her as "street dismissal", but cat-calling? Cat-calling isn't really dismissing the girl. There is some kind of attention and acknowledgment of her existence when cat-calling.

 

Well no, they're saying not being cat-called is equally "dismissive".

[isisisweeping]

So how do babies treat ugly people? Pee on them?

 

They actually did do research that showed babies are more drawn towards conventionally attractive (symmetrical) faces.

They don't show weight bias until age 3 but the basic "beauty" thing shows up in infants.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, there's really little point in complaining. Short of surgery and loads of money, you are who you are and those of us who aren't beautiful won't be treated quite as well as beautiful people, and that's just how it is... all you can do is keep living your life.

[Cristo]

Who buys ANY woman entrance to a club? I used to go to clubs all the time and never even thought to do that.

 

Also, most clubs let women get in free anyway....

 

I'm thinking that the events in this article may not have actually happened (outside of that poster's head, at least).

[Toodaloo]

To be honest I switched off when I read that they didn't take much cash with them and were allowing random guys to pay for them...

 

If that had been me I wouldn't have stood around I would have gone to the cash point got the money and paid. Simples.

 

When I was young and going out I would always keep £50 stuffed in my bra for taxi and emergency... Do women these days just expect a free ride because they put on a dress and make up...

 

Gah. What a load of utter balls.

[Els]

I'm not denying that some people can be total and complete arseholes to women, but that reddit article was really a piss poor example of that point. I mean, really, you go for a night out without enough cash to pay your own cover and are expecting strangers to front it? That just blows my mind.

 

Plus I think it's pretty well-known that people who frequent nightclubs are more likely to be superficial. Plenty of people avoid nightclubs for this reason and I don't see anything wrong with that - it's not like it's something that's vital to your survival. It would have been more credible if the experience was in a more neutral situation, e.g. a job interview or cafe.

[Anela]

I'm just stuck on the idea that it's okay to exclude someone, because of the way they look. I've been there - not at a club, because I've never been to one, and I was younger, so I was hoping that it was just a kid thing. It just reinforces what I used to feel, and why I didn't try to get over the issues I had at the time. Why would I put myself out there for more of that? They didn't try to set fire to her hair, but their attitudes suck just as much as hers might.

[Taramere]

There were plenty of times in my teens and twenties that I was overlooked for prettier friends. In my teens and early twenties, occasionally I'd encounter a douchebag who would make much of the fact that my friends were prettier. That's clubs for you. They're full of drunks, and drunks aren't especially great people to be around. I don't think I'm that bad looking, but in the cut throat teens and twenties, guys will tend to focus their attention only the prettiest ones of the group. So even if you're dressed and made up and looking quite nice, you'll be treated like the plain Jane if you're out with prettier friends. You start to feel ugly, even if you're in decent shape and have an okay face.

 

One time I was in a club with two beautiful friends. Guys came over quickly, and one guy went to buy drinks for his friends and my two friends. He left me out of the equation. I went to the loo and looked at myself in the mirror. I thought "well, I don't look ugly - perhaps the issue is more my body language. Perhaps I'm projecting hostility as a result of expecting to be overlooked." So I left the loo, bought myself a drink at the bar and returned to the group walking taller and giving them all a big smile even though I really didn't feel like smiling. Mr "Bought everybody but me a drink" immediately apologised for not having bought me a drink. I told him I didn't really expect strangers to buy me drinks so that was okay. Suddenly they were all flocking round me, being attentive in a way I was not used to - to the point where I could see my friends' faces giving off "WTF? How did that happen?" expressions.

 

I realised that night that you can spend your life luxuriating in self pity about not being the cream of the crop, or you can make the best of what you have, and learn to give insulting treatment the brush off in a smiling way...which will often make people rethink their poor behaviour and try to make amends for it as those guys did.

 

A girl I met when I was travelling opened my eyes to how cold and unkind life can be if you fall way short of the standard men consider "acceptable" in women. She had a severely deformed face and how my eyes were opened. As we hung out together, I began to realise the extent to which being overlooked for prettier girls in clubs is absolutely nothing. That I might have to try that bit harder and make more use of personality to avoid being ignored, but generally when I'm out and about people will be quite civil to me unless they're drunk/have some sort of personal issue that they're looking to vent on others. People were not nice to this girl. Men weren't. Women were kinder and would manage to speak to her without looking appalled - but men couldn't do it. Any time she had to speak to a guy (in a bank, in a shop) she'd get a dour, slightly appalled look. The hostel owner told me off for going out late on my own. "It is not a good area. You could be attacked and raped. It is different for your friend. She is unlucky to have that face, but at least she will be safe when she's out." Thankfully she wasn't around when he said that.

 

We encountered the dispiriting, negative reaction to the sight of her face everywhere except for in a spaghetti place where the handsome, friendly waiter was equally nice to both of us,seemed totally unphased by her face - and was generally a "beautiful inside and out" sort of a guy. It's something I've noticed sufficiently, over the years, to think that it's the rule rather than the exception; that good looking guys often are nicer people to even quite plain women. Possibly it's down to them feeling relatively attractive and secure around women. They don't feel a need to lower a woman's self esteem so that she feels badly about herself and therefore gets a taste of feeling how he feels (as though it's a rare event for Mesdames Average to be overlooked or insulted for not being "pretty enough")

 

The worst of it, in my experience, occurs in clubs - where lots of fragile egos combine with drink to result in the ugliest of defence mechanisms being employed. Where in some cases only the most attractive people will be able to end the night feeling a little more attractive than a sack of second rate spuds. We can mock this woman for feeling sad about being treated as a second class citizen because she's not as pretty as her friends, or we can accept that both genders encounter their share of crushing behaviour in the cattle market of clubland - and accept that she has as much right to express her feelings about being treated as a second rate human as men do.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Taramere

[Phoe]

 

Also, most clubs let women get in free anyway....

 

I'm thinking that the events in this article may not have actually happened (outside of that poster's head, at least).

 

There were times in Santa Barbara that women were charged. Like the fiesta days or halloween time, or new years. I remember $30 being the usual fee I was asked.

[Els]

I'm just stuck on the idea that it's okay to exclude someone, because of the way they look. I've been there - not at a club, because I've never been to one, and I was younger, so I was hoping that it was just a kid thing. It just reinforces what I used to feel, and why I didn't try to get over the issues I had at the time. Why would I put myself out there for more of that? They didn't try to set fire to her hair, but their attitudes suck just as much as hers might.

 

I think that there are absolutely people who have legitimate bad experiences with being mistreated due to other people's perception of their appearance. Their appearance might not even be all that awful, just that some people have very narrow expectations of what a woman should look like. I've experienced it myself, unfortunately.

 

I just think this woman's example missed the point by a mile. In fact, I think her article hurts the cause more than helping it, because it'd lead to a whole slew of "well if you women weren't so entitled..." comments, which actually do have a point in her particular case.

 

Some of the people posting in the comments section provided much better examples of the point.

[Thegreatestthing]

She's silly to worry about men's opinions,time erodes all beauty she should invest in herself.

[ptp]

I know this is going to come of insensitive, but as a guy I have experienced similar things from women.

 

It is actually worse for me because I never expect someone to pay my cover or buy me drinks.

 

In fact, one reason why a woman might talk to me at a club is to get me to pay for her cover or drinks.

 

If you think about, that is actually even worse than anything this woman has written.

Edited October 27, 2014 by ptp

[OwMyEyeball]

I know this is going to come of insensitive, but as a guy I have experienced similar things from women.

 

It is actually worse for me because I never expect someone to pay my cover or buy me drinks.

 

In fact, one reason why a woman might talk to me at a club is to get me to pay for her cover or drinks.

You can ask for either pity or respect. Rarely will you get both.

[Purepony]

I was at 3 clubs a month ago and even the chubby girls got action

[writergal]

I read the ugly girl's post on Reddit that you linked, Frank. Since she never posted a photo, I think her post is more reflective of a young woman with low self esteem, who is caught up in the glamour and shallow culture of nightclubs which is common among the 20-something crowd (especially the scenesters).

 

Her post makes me think of that Good Charlotte song,

. She's too caught up in what society defines as pretty, rather than what she thinks of herself.

[ptp]

Well no, they're saying not being cat-called is equally "dismissive".

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[Anela]

I am wondering if the guys realized this girl was part of the group of friends? No it's not mean to not pay for someone's club entrance, but if you see a group of girls, know that they are all friends, and you pay for ALL of them except for one, yeah that kinda is mean.

 

 

Thank you! That was my point. I would have left, rather than be covered by a guy I didn't know, but they offered to pay for the others, so why not her?