How should I pursue this girl?

[organizedchaos]

But don't you see? When she left it all came back. She WAS the bandaid ThaWholigan is saying, not the cure.

 

Your issues did not GO AWAY. You were just distracted. And it was the core reason Your ex GF left you. You liked her more than she liked you. You needed her to be normal.

 

.....So if all you need is a GF to make all your issues go away, and your check list is cute and nice, why don't you just get a mail-order bride?

 

Drug addicts have the same problems. Need the drug to keep their high. Take it away and they go in to withdrawals, depression, desperation. Not a very healthy way to live and not sustainable.

 

Sound familiar?

[organizedchaos]

It's because you don't have boobs.

 

Big boobs. To be more specific.

[Million.to.1]

Drug addicts have the same problems. Need the drug to keep their high. Take it away and they go in to withdrawals, depression, desperation. Not a very healthy way to live and not sustainable.

 

Sound familiar?

 

 

I hear ya.

 

I tend to think that LS is a terrible addiction for SD. It's like a placebo for real interactions.

I don't think he has any friends he could talk to about the things he shares on here. Regular posters on LS know more about SD than any RLF "friend" in his actual reality.

 

On the internet he can ignore who he likes, not care if people desert him and can always find new attention from new people.

Having posts that have thousands of views must be a good boast for the ego. Doesn't help with anything though.

 

 

The best thing SD could do IMO is take a huge break from loveshack. Spend the time he spends on here making REAL LIFE friends and working on his social skills.

 

This is holding him back from the deep end he needs to dive into if he wants to get the life he thinks he deserves. No more pretend safety net.

[MissBee]

No, I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

 

It just doesn't seem realistic that a woman would be a completely different person than from what my impression of her that's been building for a couple months.

It seems completely illogical that you think an IMPRESSION of someone is the same as KNOWING them intimately. I don't understand how you don't see the difference between an impression and being someone's close friend or bf or husband and how different things might be living with them or dating them versus seeing them in class.

 

It's almost as if you are saying that once I get to know them, they will turn out to be horrible people.

 

That's not what I'm saying. The point isn't about if they are good or bad people or that they will turn into bad people which I already said. It's that you already act like you know them so well when you don't. Your IMPRESSION is based on seeing only parts of them in very LIMITED settings, in a class...that is not the sum of a person. How I am in class is certainly not the entirety of who I am and won't reflect how it is to DATE me.

 

 

I just said that I have more factors that I consider than cute and nice. I feel as if nobody is trying to listen to what I'm saying.

You keep saying it but still have not mentioned ONE...not even one, which would be easy enough. I'm not gonna listen to you saying you have something yet you can't even provide one example. You totally IGNORED the questions of what you would look for in a wife or gf...if you can provide between 1 and 3 more qualities besides cute and nice I'll listen but simply saying you allegedly have more yet avoid actually saying what they are leads me to believe you really don't....or it's a struggle for you to even comprise any kind of more extensive criteria.

 

 

There are a lot of girls in one dance class. Probably around 20 if not more. Busy girl was the only girl that I actually felt compatible with. To me, there was something about how our personalities meshed that just worked. There were many things that I liked about her. The more I got to know her, the more things I liked about her. And of course there were a couple things that I didn't like so much.

 

Well that meshing wasn't a two way street obviously, so liking how personalities mesh isn't a critera necessarily, but more of an intangible thing. No matter my "list" I have to feel good and natural and click with a man, that to me is the meshing, which neither of us can control. But outside of that element of chemistry, I still have tangible qualities I look for. Example: emotionally mature, ambitious, similar worldviews, gets on with his family to name a few.

 

 

That should go without saying. If a woman doesn't think we are compatible, she won't go on a date with me.

 

Huh??? I am not talking about going a date...I'm talking about maintaining a relationship. Which is the point I was making that compatibility can be an illusion when you don't know someone. You seem to have this naive sort of idea that your impression of someone is ultimate reality and that alone can tell you if you are compatible. I and others are saying that you can SEEM like you are compatible with someone based on superficial interactions so agree to go out with them and then it's after getting to know them in other contexts and more deeply beyond casual encounters that you realize you aren't

 

 

There are several reasons why I'd break up with a woman. Not being able to find time to spend with me would be a primary reason. Low interest in sex, cheating, game playing etc.

And what is the criteria for looking for a wife, you still haven't answered.

 

Of course not.

 

I feel that If a girl thinks I'm cute and nice, she should at least go on one date with me. Then she can get to know me better and see if we are compatible or not.

 

For some people that's not enough. And the point I'm making is how you think things SHOULD work based on how you think isn't how every other person thinks, so it's best to understand that than simply keep wishing people would think like you. Some women are more adept at figuring out based on other things if they would like to date you or not and even if you are cute and nice may not see you as someone they want to date. While some others might find it enough to give you a shot. For me, it depends. Cute and nice as I said are very GENERIC qualities. Nice can mean anything. Some men are "nice" but very dull or awkward or don't turn me on sexually where I can't fathom being with them so even though I may think they are cute or nice I'm not interested, while others are cute and nice but exhibit other qualities: witty, intelligent, dress well, smell nice, funny, so I give them a chance. Cute and nice have to be nuanced...it's the specific kind of cute and nice and how it appeals to me not just any kind of cute or nice.

 

Unfortunately many girls are far more picky than that. They seem to have ridiculous requirements to even get the first date. You'd think I was asking them to have my kids.

 

 

It's hard to express and something that I would just know.

 

My ex girlfriend just had something about her that at the first date I knew that I wanted to be in a serious relationship with her. The fact that we were acquaintances for 5 months before our first date probably helped.

 

For some reason, there have been a very small number of girls that I wanted to skip the whole dating thing and go straight away into a relationship. The majority of other girls I wanted to go on dates with to find out who they are and if we can get along. I can't really explain why I feel differently.

 

Again...I think most of us at one time or other can feel chemistry with someone which is not tangible but most of us still can articulate the necessary qualities we look for in an exclusive relationship. So the fact that yours are strictly built on a "feeling" or cute and nice but you have no other tangible criteria is strange esp for someone your age. It reads more like a 14 year old describing a crush than a grown man who can articulate real qualities he desires in a woman.

 

 

I've only been in one relationship and she turned out to be somebody who I felt to be extremely compatible with and only had a couple of minor issues that didn't really affect anything, for example she never initiated sex, which was a con, but she was always up for it which was a plus, and overwrote the con.

 

She was the only woman that I actually had a third date with, so I can't really relate to short term relationships not working out.

 

Yes you can relate, didn't you date for 6 months (that's short term btw) and it didn't work out??? So how can you not relate then? And you thought you were compatible but she didn't and ended things so you definitely can relate to being with someone and them deciding you aren't compatible and ending things even though at some point earlier in the 6 months she obviously liked you. This is the way of many relationships, the person obviously likes you at some point and sometimes it's based on limited info but after being together they can come to realize you aren't quite what they want. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

After how much time should I know if somebody is compatible with me or not? How much compatibility should exist before a relationship forms?

 

Huh? There is no magic formula. Didn't you read what I said....you figure out compatibility when you date. An IMPRESSION doesn't equate to genuine compatibility. An impression means there is romantic INTEREST...however an interest and sustainable compatibility are not the same and usually it is with getting to know them intimately: dates, hanging with them and their friends, talking in depth about various topics etc. that you gather more data and can make a more accurate assessment outside of casual impression. I am still befuddled that you don't see how an impression made through casual contact does not give you a full picture...like I'm truly trying to understand what isn't common sense about that. I think Jesse Williams the actor amd I would be a great match based on his Instagram and what I see of his interviews and the ideas and things he expresses...however, all that data I have gathered are impressions and not formed in any kind of intimate and deeply personal way. Yes I can identify certain points of commonality but it's also a two way street and because I like him doesn't mean he would like me and also what I know of him casually (even if he was someone I saw in class) and what I know of him if we were to date are two different things: one is limited the other paints a fuller picture. Chemistry also plays a role, that and attraction, and if those exist someone is likely to want to be around you and to get to know you more and see how things go whereas if they don't exist they may decide rather quickly that you aren't compatible.

 

Compatibility is a two way street more importantly. Whether or not you THINK you and these women are compatible based on limited data means nothing if they don't feel the same. And like I pointed out, it is common in dating that you are attracted to someone, infatuated, it's hot and heavy and it feels like you are compatible so form a relationship and then when things cool and different scenarios and issues come up is when you begin to realize you in fact don't see eye to eye on important stuff and then you become dissatisfied and it falls apart.

 

Responses are in bold.

[somedude81]

MissBee, apparently you are talking about things on a far different level than I'm able to understand.

 

I've only been in one relationship, that lasted only six months. How can I possibly talk about what I'm looking for in a wife?

 

This entire thread is about nothing more than getting a couple of dates with girls. Anything beyond that is a bridge I'll cross when I get to it.

[CrystalCastles]

I hear ya.

 

I tend to think that LS is a terrible addiction for SD. It's like a placebo for real interactions.

I don't think he has any friends he could talk to about the things he shares on here. Regular posters on LS know more about SD than any RLF "friend" in his actual reality.

 

On the internet he can ignore who he likes, not care if people desert him and can always find new attention from new people.

Having posts that have thousands of views must be a good boast for the ego. Doesn't help with anything though.

 

 

The best thing SD could do IMO is take a huge break from loveshack. Spend the time he spends on here making REAL LIFE friends and working on his social skills.

 

This is holding him back from the deep end he needs to dive into if he wants to get the life he thinks he deserves. No more pretend safety net.

 

This is actually a good point. Personally I find that LS can be a pretty depressing place. Many people on here have very extreme and bitter views when it comes to dating. In a PM, SD brought up the point that he believes women have a much easier time dating, and I've seen this concept all over LS from other men. Women do not have an easier time dating, this I know from all my female friends who had somewhat lengthy periods of being single, despite them being great catches.

 

False concepts like these are poisonous because they can actually hurt a man's confidence and courage to approach a girl because he'll believe that the girl he intends to ask out is being hounded by a zillion other men and therefore he has to compete, so it increases the chances he'll get rejected. There are other such concepts floating around that aren't at all a good idea to adopt. Such things could actually be skewing SD's perception of the real world and women IRL.

 

Also, I think Internet people are a poor replacement for real-life people. SD, are there any guys in your salsa class who you can talk to? I mean you do have a common interest there: salsa. I know you mentioned you had bad luck making male friends, but I seem to recall you only giving two examples. Surely not all men you've met are bad? Are you just having trouble establishing something to talk about?

[Teknoe]

I live about 30 minutes from SD. A few months ago I offered to drive down and just hang out, grab a beer, and talk. Gave him my number. Never took me up on it.

 

I seem to recall a couple years back a poster actually offered to meet up with SD. I remember he wrote something like "I absolutely need someone to talk to about this right now." Someone in his area reached out. And he declined. So, what I've sensed from him is a lot of talk but lacking the action to back it up.

 

 

I tend to think that LS is a terrible addiction for SD. It's like a placebo for real interactions.

I don't think he has any friends he could talk to about the things he shares on here. Regular posters on LS know more about SD than any RLF "friend" in his actual reality.

 

On the internet he can ignore who he likes, not care if people desert him and can always find new attention from new people.

Having posts that have thousands of views must be a good boast for the ego. Doesn't help with anything though.

 

The best thing SD could do IMO is take a huge break from loveshack. Spend the time he spends on here making REAL LIFE friends and working on his social skills.

 

This is holding him back from the deep end he needs to dive into if he wants to get the life he thinks he deserves. No more pretend safety net.

 

100% agree with this, and I've suggested as much to him before. It obviously went ignored. It must be nice to see his own threads explode in popularity. I think he's allowed it to become some sort of dangerous loop. He'll post his play by plays, a mass flood of people will respond, he gets to read through the responses and respond to the ones he wants to, while ignoring all of the perfectly sound advice he's given. It's too easy to filter through, reveal just enough of your situation yet still remain firmly anonymous.

 

I agree that the best thing he can do is stop posting his play by plays and stop asking for help on EVERY little female interaction. I think LS is a great tool if used properly. The way he's using it and has been using it hasn't seemed to help him much.

 

 

This is actually a good point. Personally I find that LS can be a pretty depressing place. Many people on here have very extreme and bitter views when it comes to dating. In a PM, SD brought up the point that he believes women have a much easier time dating, and I've seen this concept all over LS from other men. Women do not have an easier time dating, this I know from all my female friends who had somewhat lengthy periods of being single, despite them being great catches.

 

False concepts like these are poisonous because they can actually hurt a man's confidence and courage to approach a girl because he'll believe that the girl he intends to ask out is being hounded by a zillion other men and therefore he has to compete, so it increases the chances he'll get rejected. There are other such concepts floating around that aren't at all a good idea to adopt. Such things could actually be skewing SD's perception of the real world and women IRL.

 

Also, I think Internet people are a poor replacement for real-life people. SD, are there any guys in your salsa class who you can talk to? I mean you do have a common interest there: salsa. I know you mentioned you had bad luck making male friends, but I seem to recall you only giving two examples. Surely not all men you've met are bad? Are you just having trouble establishing something to talk about?

 

Exactly. What troubles me most is when you (SD) say stuff like "I don't get it. Half the board says go to lunch with her. The other half says don't go. Which one is it?"

 

I feel sad for him when I read stuff like that. How about you make the decision yourself, and stop obsessing over it like it's life and death? And how about going with your gut rather than relying on strangers who cannot fully have a firm grasp on the dynamics of your situation?

 

It seems to me like he uses LS to fuel a lot of his world views. And that is very dangerous as you mentioned... opinions here tend to be on one extreme end or the other. I don't think it always represents reality... and bottom line, reality is where SD should try living in more of.

 

All these posts are just a form of distraction and replacement for real life social interactions. I just hope he's doing well in Calculus and working on his resume. It's November in what, 3 days!

[Million.to.1]

Totally agree Teknoe.

 

I know for a fact that I am on SD's ignore list, so he cannot see ANY post I make anyway. In the past I offered sage advice over and over till a point of absolute frustration... then I'd say something mean or pointed because he refused to see the point me and other posters were trying to make. .....and I'd get an infraction. All the infractions (3) I have ever received are from SD threads.

 

I still post in them because although i am classified as one of those "mean nasty posters that are just here to pick on me" - I actually do want SD to have more success in love. I just get frustrated that he ignores everything that that actually will and clings desperately to reasons why it wont apply to him.

 

Unfortunately though, the more we try to help, the more the cycle continues.

 

I admit, I'm a little addicted to the threads too. It amazes me that posters like you have kept their patience for so long.

 

we are doing more harm than good at this stage. We, by responding, are enabling more of the same.

 

 

.

[Million.to.1]

MissBee, apparently you are talking about things on a far different level than I'm able to understand.

 

I've only been in one relationship, that lasted only six months. How can I possibly talk about what I'm looking for in a wife?

 

This entire thread is about nothing more than getting a couple of dates with girls. Anything beyond that is a bridge I'll cross when I get to it.

 

deflect deflect deflect.

[somedude81]

Exactly. What troubles me most is when you (SD) say stuff like "I don't get it. Half the board says go to lunch with her. The other half says don't go. Which one is it?"

 

I feel sad for him when I read stuff like that. How about you make the decision yourself, and stop obsessing over it like it's life and death? And how about going with your gut rather than relying on strangers who cannot fully have a firm grasp on the dynamics of your situation?

 

Because I obviously don't know what I should do.

 

I don't post threads to get attention, I post threads to get advice on how to proceed with women I'm interested in. I don't care about how "popular" I am here, I just want to go on dates with girls I like.

 

Going with my gut lands me in the friendzone. I ask for help so I can try something different that I may not have thought of.

[sillyanswer]

Because I obviously don't know what I should do.

 

I don't post threads to get attention, I post threads to get advice on how to proceed with women I'm interested in. I don't care about how "popular" I am here, I just want to go on dates with girls I like.

 

Going with my gut lands me in the friendzone. I ask for help so I can try something different that I may not have thought of.

 

Since you come here for advice, how much of it do you actually follow?

[xxoo]

I feel that If a girl thinks I'm cute and nice, she should at least go on one date with me. Then she can get to know me better and see if we are compatible or not.

 

This is a lesson girls learn in middle school or high school: going on a date with guy means he is going to want to touch you (hold hands, arm around you, hug) and probably try to kiss you.

 

If you (a girl) don't want him to do that, don't accept a date.

[somedude81]

Since you come here for advice, how much of it do you actually follow?

 

One piece of major advice I've received on this forum is to move much faster with women than I have been in the past. And that is something that I have started doing.

 

Another very relevant thing is to completely back off of lunch girl and leave every thing up to her. If I didn't ask for advice here, I would have continued to try to pursue her even when she most likely won't contact me before the end of the week.

[somedude81]

This is a lesson girls learn in middle school or high school: going on a date with guy means he is going to want to touch you (hold hands, arm around you, hug) and probably try to kiss you.

 

If you (a girl) don't want him to do that, don't accept a date.

 

And here's the other reason I post here, to learn stuff about women that I would never guess.

 

Yeah, that can explain why I'm not even getting a first date.

 

Though since I've met these girls in dance class I've already held hands with them, put my arm around them and hugged them, but I haven't tried to kiss any body.

 

Outside of dancing, I've already put my arm around and hugged lunch girl a few times. Before things went south with busy girl I'm sure I could have hugged her if I tried, of course they would just be friendly hugs. For some reason I felt that lunch girl wanted to be more than friends with me when I hugged her. The only way to find out though is if she contacts me. If she doesn't, then I'll know I was mistaken.

[sillyanswer]

And here's the other reason I post here, to learn stuff about women that I would never guess.

 

If you spent time with platonic friends, of both sexes, you might pick up tips like that from them.

[thefooloftheyear]

And here's the other reason I post here, to learn stuff about women that I would never guess.

 

Yeah, that can explain why I'm not even getting a first date.

 

Though since I've met these girls in dance class I've already held hands with them, put my arm around them and hugged them, but I haven't tried to kiss any body.

 

Outside of dancing, I've already put my arm around and hugged lunch girl a few times. Before things went south with busy girl I'm sure I could have hugged her if I tried, of course they would just be friendly hugs. For some reason I felt that lunch girl wanted to be more than friends with me when I hugged her. The only way to find out though is if she contacts me. If she doesn't, then I'll know I was mistaken.

 

 

Id advise against ANY physical contact with these girls...You really dont know how they feel about it and its a good bet they dont want it, but feel uncomfortable telling you to keep your hands to yourself..

 

You really have to have a solid green light to get that close...You are probably scaring the hell out of them....Dont invade personal space that way..

 

TFY

[clia]

There are a lot of girls in one dance class. Probably around 20 if not more. Busy girl was the only girl that I actually felt compatible with. To me, there was something about how our personalities meshed that just worked. There were many things that I liked about her. The more I got to know her, the more things I liked about her. And of course there were a couple things that I didn't like so much.

 

So, out of 20 girls, you were only interested in one? That's 5%. That seems pretty picky to me. If the girls you are interested in are also only interested in 5% of the men they meet, can you see why dating is such a numbers game? Your 5% has to overlap with their 5%. It can be quite a challenge--for both men and women.

[Teknoe]

And here's the other reason I post here, to learn stuff about women that I would never guess.

 

 

Can you at least admit that if you had real life friends, they could help you do the same thing as LS does, perhaps even better?

 

Better because they would know you in real life, see your style, your tone, your facial expressions, your mannerisms and non verbal cues, and could help you more properly assess a situation.

 

A message board of strangers can only help you so much.

 

Real life friends would help you far greater, yet I have no idea why you refuse to work on this area of your life.

 

So is it just the anonymity of the internet you enjoy?

 

Or is it because you have difficulty connecting with people on a platonic level? Particularly guys?

 

Because one way to get better is to hang out with guys who are actually in relationships. You can get tips from them on what to do.

[normal person]

Each rejection is essentially a woman telling me that I'm not good enough. Constant rejection hurts. It is the reason for my poor self-esteem.

 

Maybe it'd help to look at rejections not as criticisms but as inspiration. Maybe you need to get good enough. Let's say you had something non-girl related to accomplish, achieve, take pride in, be passionate about, hang your hat on, etc.

 

Then you might be more interesting, have some self-esteem that isn't contingent on a woman's affection and therefore be more attractive.

[somedude81]

So, out of 20 girls, you were only interested in one? That's 5%. That seems pretty picky to me. If the girls you are interested in are also only interested in 5% of the men they meet, can you see why dating is such a numbers game? Your 5% has to overlap with their 5%. It can be quite a challenge--for both men and women.

 

Well, there were two other girls but they both had boyfriends so I quickly moved on.

 

If a random girl in the class who was halfway decent looking was interested in me I would have asked her out.

 

The main thing that determines my interest in a girl is how friendly or engaging she is, assuming she meets the bare minimum in looks. So in that class, many girls were cute enough, but only a few seemed to enjoy my company. There was also the very rare example of the girl who enjoyed my company but was just not attractive to me.

 

If it was easier for me to tell when woman are interested, I would have asked several more girls than I have already and spent less time with girls I had no chance with.

 

Id advise against ANY physical contact with these girls...You really dont know how they feel about it and its a good bet they dont want it, but feel uncomfortable telling you to keep your hands to yourself..

 

You really have to have a solid green light to get that close...You are probably scaring the hell out of them....Dont invade personal space that way..

 

TFY

 

LOL!

 

You have such the wrong idea.

[BlueIris]

Well, there were two other girls but they both had boyfriends so I quickly moved on.

 

If a random girl in the class who was halfway decent looking was interested in me I would have asked her out.

 

The main thing that determines my interest in a girl is how friendly or engaging she is, assuming she meets the bare minimum in looks. So in that class, many girls were cute enough, but only a few seemed to enjoy my company. There was also the very rare example of the girl who enjoyed my company but was just not attractive to me.

 

If it was easier for me to tell when woman are interested, I would have asked several more girls than I have already and spent less time with girls I had no chance with.

 

 

 

LOL!

 

You have such the wrong idea.

 

I agree with him, SD.

 

Would you welcome a man hugging you and putting his arm around you even if you were acquaintances or laughing and talking?

[somedude81]

I agree with him, SD.

 

Would you welcome a man hugging you and putting his arm around you even if you were acquaintances or laughing and talking?

 

I am never the first person to initiate a hug with a woman. In other words, they hug me first.

[BlueIris]

I am never the first person to initiate a hug with a woman.

 

Ah. Important clarification.

[clia]

It's dance class. He can hardly avoid some physical contact with these girls.

[somedude81]

Ah. Important clarification.

 

That's why I LOLed and said he had such the wrong idea.

 

It's dance class. He can hardly avoid some physical contact with these girls.

 

And that too.

 

It's why I've said that I've already held hands with these girls and put my hands around them. It was all part of dancing.

 

Though outside of dancing, I have hugged and put my arm around lunch girl after she initiated the first hug. I never assume that a girl wants me to hug her and always let her make the first move. That's why I've only hugged one girl in the entire year.