How should I pursue this girl?

[Anela]

If you want to hold my attention, I suggest not insulting me

 

That goes both ways.

 

The attractive trait that you can develop, involves hobbies, and not placing all of your happiness on a young girl, who is trying to get her own life started.

[clia]

My hope is that there is some quality or trait that a good number of women perceive as attractive that I can develop. Not something goofy like getting a goatee and a tattoo.

 

Try to put yourself into the shoes of the type of girls you want to date.

 

For example, you are 21 years old, attractive, a junior/senior in college, have a good personality, have a busy and full life, friends, maybe a part time job, certain hobbies, you eventually want to get married and have kids, etc.

 

What kind of man do you want to date?

[somedude81]

Try to put yourself into the shoes of the type of girls you want to date.

 

For example, you are 21 years old, attractive, a junior/senior in college, have a good personality, have a busy and full life, friends, maybe a part time job, certain hobbies, you eventually want to get married and have kids, etc.

 

What kind of man do you want to date?

 

A guy that is attractive to me, funny, easy to talk to and can have a good time with. He's looking for more than just sex. Is interested in the same things I am. Since he's in college he is on track to getting a good job.

[ThaWholigan]

If you want to hold my attention, I suggest not insulting me

Why not? I've tried everything else!

[somedude81]

Why not? I've tried everything else!

 

That was actually funny

[clia]

A guy that is attractive to me, funny, easy to talk to and can have a good time with. He's looking for more than just sex. Is interested in the same things I am. Since he's in college he is on track to getting a good job.

 

Okay. This is a fairly unspecific list. Do you think a lot of college guys out there might meet these basic, general requirements?

[GemmaUK]

I totally agree that as others have said you must must must leave busy girl alone from now on.

 

If anyone ever says a gentle no as in 'I'm too busy to date' again then please just walk away and don't wait around thinking that she will date you in a few weeks time.

Clearly she was aware initially that you were looking to date but having said she is too busy then no you are not 'expected' to switch any feelings you might have off but you are expected to take it as red that she should be struck off your wish list and you must respect her wishes and back off.

 

It bothers me that your plan is to quit a class due to her.

Is this anything to do with why you are still in college? Have you quit classes before because a woman isn't into you?

 

You are missing so many social cues SD, if you had experience of people - a group of friends for instance you would learn social cues so much more quickly.

I honestly think something like a meet up group or maybe a hiking group would be a good thing for you to join.

Dancing is fine but ..well...I went once..only the once as itfelt like a meat market to me and I was the fresh meat being new.

It was actually worse than any single's event I have been to and I have both hosted pof events (300+ in attendance) and much smaller meets (4 of us from a much smaller and UK based site went hiking for a day) - these were both vastly different and both great fun!

The dancing...not so much! Just because I felt cornered by regulars there. I didn't go back.

 

As for women 'knowing' that a guy likes them for me it has been that sometimes I do get an idea but it is only an assumption - if he is not vocal about liking me I am not going to bring it up especially if I am not interested in him romantically.

More often I actually and honestly just figure they are only being friends.

 

One time I remember though I agreed to meet a friend of a friend (via a forum actually) but I clearly stated it was to be lunch as friends only.

I arrived and he greeted me, we got drinks and sat down. All seemed OK.

 

Things got a bit wierd when he asked me if I liked what he was wearing - it was just jeans and a sweat top etc. I said 'yes you look nice,nothing wrong with what you're wearing.

Then he told me that he had been into town the day before and spent £220 on new jeans,t-shirt, sweatshirt and shoes as well as new underwear (?) and socks too.

That converts to $355 for a lunch meeting with someone (me) who only wanted to meet as friends.....eek!

He had heard I dress well so wanted to make an impression.

The point is though that I never wanted to date him and I didn't then. I was also incredibly direct and clear for the following few weeks when he would not get the message and kept on about 'taking the relationship to the next level..

 

I had no clue what relationship he meant. There wasn't one...at all.

 

I had to block him eventually as he was so much hassle.

 

If you really have no will to make friends and learn social cues you need to learn body language and facial expressions - this kind of stuff is what you need for life and for work.

 

 

Most folk say that school days were the easiest of times - there was no real responsibility.

 

AI wonder whether you are still in that mindset with regard to people and how to deal with them.

You gotta learn this stuff now!

 

We all evolve and learn as we grow older, we take on other folks ideas and try them out, sometimes they work sometimes not but if you are not interested in listening to those who give you advice, breath in, out and give something new a go (or only arguewhy you can't/won't) you will never evolve.

 

Ya know, I used to be painfully and I mean PAINFULLY shy.

I was only just turned 18, my Mum had passed away 3 weeks before my 18th birthday following a long illness (from when I was aged 4).

I had school friends who were loved up or were off to university, not one of them was in my situation.

But I was shy, hated it.

 

So I went out, on my own 3 month deadline.

I had some great times and some bad times.

I learned a whole lot about 'people' and 'me'

 

I have never looked back from doing that.

None of it was about dating. It was about making new friends..and I did.

[somedude81]

Okay. This is a fairly unspecific list. Do you think a lot of college guys out there might meet these basic, general requirements?

 

Yup. Also I met everything I wrote about but I'm still unable to get any dates.

 

Is it a little clearer about why dating is confusing to me?

[normal person]

Yup. Also I met everything I wrote about but I'm still unable to get any dates.

 

Is it a little clearer about why dating is confusing to me?

 

Your problem is that you seem to assume that because this is all you want that that's all any girl wants. Which isn't true. Most want a lot more than that. Or at least more specified.

 

Step out of your own shoes and view yourself from someone else's perspective.

[ThaWholigan]

Yup. Also I met everything I wrote about but I'm still unable to get any dates.

 

Is it a little clearer about why dating is confusing to me?

BTW you asked, so you shall receive:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/499507-i-don-t-know-what-women-want

 

As for your list, you might meet the things in your list, but as Clia pointed out, it's a very unspecific list. As flighty as young women can be, they probably have a bit more of a specific idea of who they want. And much like your list, pretty much most guys already in college meet it. It's very glib, vague and ambiguous.

[clia]

Yup. Also I met everything I wrote about but I'm still unable to get any dates.

 

Is it a little clearer about why dating is confusing to me?

 

Well, you have no way of knowing if you were attractive to the four girls who you tried to ask out this semester. Or, for that matter, if they believed they could have a good time with you, or if they believed you were on track to a good job. You obviously didn't meet some item on their "wish list." I would also argue that most 21 year old girls have much more specific items on their "wish list." I know I did!

 

My point though, is that if that's the list, you have a lot of competition because those are fairly basic things. When you have that kind of competition, you really need to make yourself stand out.

[preraph]

That's exactly what I view love and having a girlfriend as. And I know it works because I was feeling great when I had a GF.

 

Yes, but then you'd have a debilitating fear of breaking up because you'd know you'd go right into depression, so that's going to be unhealthy, is likely to cause excessive jealousy and control issues and could even theoretically make you more apt to stay in an abusive or opportunistic relationship rather than leave it. I'm afraid the fear of the relationship failing would always hover over you and kind of ruin the pure love of it and that then that jealousy/control could actually be the thing that breaks the relationship.

 

So though I agree that being in love and having someone who cares is very soothing, not so much if you have all your eggs in that basket and know it could all go away in the snap of a finger. Better to fortify so you won't feel all is lost each time a relationship ends. That's where you're headed by doing all this work on yourself. You'll just be stronger, have tools to cope. I mean, you have so much drive and determination that in some ways you seem very resilient, able to withstand a lot, but then this one thing is your Kryptonite. You can't let something control you to your detriment.

[somedude81]

Well, you have no way of knowing if you were attractive to the four girls who you tried to ask out this semester. Or, for that matter, if they believed they could have a good time with you, or if they believed you were on track to a good job. You obviously didn't meet some item on their "wish list."

The girls I were most interested in knew that I was close to graduation with a business degree.

 

We've already been having a good time in class so it should go without saying that they know they can have a good time with me.

 

As for being attractive to them. I think I've already talked enough about looks and height

 

I would also argue that most 21 year old girls have much more specific items on their "wish list." I know I did!

 

Such as?

 

My point though, is that if that's the list, you have a lot of competition because those are fairly basic things. When you have that kind of competition, you really need to make yourself stand out.

 

Of course. I have a crap load of competition. That's why I've made so many posts and threads stating that every woman who wants to date has a boyfriend, how dating is so easy for women etc etc.

 

I don't know how to stand out because I don't know what women want.

 

ThaWholigan made a thread about what women wants but it's what he thinks women want. I want posts from actual women, regardless of how pretty he is in his avatar.

[xxoo]

I have had a large range of female acquaintances and some close female friends. I wasn't able to learn anything.

 

Just being friends with girls and observing them isn't enough.

 

What is the longest friendship you've had with a couple?

[ThaWholigan]

I don't know how to stand out because I don't know what women want.

 

ThaWholigan made a thread about what women wants but it's what he thinks women want. I want posts from actual women, regardless of how pretty he is in his avatar.

 

Well then I invite the women in this thread and throughout the forum to participate in my thread and tell me that I am wrong!

[somedude81]

Yes, but then you'd have a debilitating fear of breaking up because you'd know you'd go right into depression, so that's going to be unhealthy, is likely to cause excessive jealousy and control issues

 

Absolutely not.

 

I have never had the desire to control my ex. She was her own person and could do whatever she want as long as she respected me and the relationship.

 

When I know that a girl is loyal, jealousy is not an issue. My ex had guy friends and I didn't care if she saw them without me.

 

and could even theoretically make you more apt to stay in an abusive or opportunistic relationship rather than leave it.

 

I doubt I would stay in an abusive relationship. I would be in a relationship to be happy. If the relationship is bad and I'm not happy, when I would find another girl I can be happy with.

 

I'm afraid the fear of the relationship failing would always hover over you and kind of ruin the pure love of it

 

That I do agree with.

 

I was always afraid that my ex would dump me. I felt that it was too good to be true and that I would be screwed eventually. That's the primary reason why I never told her that I loved her. I didn't want to express how strong my feelings were because when the day came that she would leave me, it would be excruciating. Unfortunately even without telling her that I loved her, it was still extremely painful when I got dumped.

 

For my next relationship I am going to be very careful about not letting my feelings become too intense.

 

So though I agree that being in love and having someone who cares is very soothing, not so much if you have all your eggs in that basket and know it could all go away in the snap of a finger. Better to fortify so you won't feel all is lost each time a relationship ends.

 

Yes of course. Though easier said than done.

 

That's where you're headed by doing all this work on yourself. You'll just be stronger, have tools to cope. I mean, you have so much drive and determination that in some ways you seem very resilient, able to withstand a lot, but then this one thing is your Kryptonite. You can't let something control you to your detriment.

 

Thanks

 

These are all things I'm trying to work though in therapy.

 

I've just wanted a GF for so long, about half my life now, that I've convinced my self that it's the only thing that can make me happy.

[xxoo]

These were my dating requirements at that age:

 

I feel butterflies around this guy. I just want to be up next to him all the time.

 

After that, I looked hard at traits making him a suitable long term partner, such as:

 

mutual life goals regarding marriage, kids, lifestyle

good character

hard worker with a bright future/able to support me and babies when babies are young

no deal breakers (addictions, etc)

[somedude81]

What is the longest friendship you've had with a couple?

 

For whatever reason, I've only had male and female friends that were single.

 

Yes I have family members of both genders that are in relationships, but I never saw how those relationships formed and what the girls were looking for.

[somedude81]

These were my dating requirements at that age:

 

I feel butterflies around this guy. I just want to be up next to him all the time.

 

After that, I looked hard at traits making him a suitable long term partner, such as:

 

mutual life goals regarding marriage, kids, lifestyle

good character

hard worker with a bright future/able to support me and babies when babies are young

no deal breakers (addictions, etc)

 

That's just about as vague as the list I made.

 

The butterfly thing can't be defined.

 

Everything else you wrote can apply to me, and a million other guys.

[xxoo]

For whatever reason, I've only had male and female friends that were single.

 

Yes I have family members of both genders that are in relationships, but I never saw how those relationships formed and what the girls were looking for.

 

What do you think the reason is?

 

It's really a huge handicap for you!

 

Do you not enjoy connecting with others, outside a sexual relationship?

[clia]

The girls I were most interested in knew that I was close to graduation with a business degree.

 

So? There are plenty of people with business degrees out there who weren't able to land good jobs.

 

We've already been having a good time in class so it should go without saying that they know they can have a good time with me.

 

Being friendly with and talking to someone in class is not the same thing as having a good time with someone in other ways or places. I met plenty of guys who were fine to talk to in class but who I would not have wanted to hang out with at a bar, theme park, or shopping mall.

 

Such as?

 

Let's see...when I was 21 and in college what was I looking for in a guy? Attractive to me. Taller than me. I liked a guy who dressed preppyish and had short hair. I wanted to date a guy in a fraternity. I was motivated and ambitious, so I wanted a guy who was smart and motivated. I liked engineers best. I liked guys who had big dreams and goals for their lives. I liked guys who were extroverted and had a fun group of friends who were always doing things. I liked going to fraternity parties, sporting events, concerts, and dances, so I liked guys who liked those things. I liked guys who liked the same kinds of movies and music that I liked. I liked guys who acted like gentlemen, treated me with respect, who took me out on dates. I liked a guy who wore good shoes. I liked a guy who had at least some fashion sense. I liked a guy who had a goofy sense of humor. I liked a guy who had a car so he could pick me up for dates. I liked a guy who was kind, compassionate, considerate, and honest. Probably other stuff....

[xxoo]

That's just about as vague as the list I made.

 

The butterfly thing can't be defined.

 

Everything else you wrote can apply to me, and a million other guys.

 

Exactly. It's different for every girl, and it's RARE for every girl!

 

I get that feeling from protective behavior, but I didn't figure that out until I was older. I also liked skater boys, surfer boys, and grunge boys (this was in the 90s).

 

But I can tell you that I never felt it for a guy over 22 at that age. Not even once.

[GemmaUK]

BTW you asked, so you shall receive:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/499507-i-don-t-know-what-women-want

 

 

Wholigan, did you come up with that yourself?

 

You say in there that you are autistic but wow you have some insight!

I know a few autistic folk but mostly aspergers and they are not as clued - not in your league at all.

 

That opening post is brilliant!

 

My respect to you Mr W!

[GemmaUK]

A guy that is attractive to me, funny, easy to talk to and can have a good time with. He's looking for more than just sex. Is interested in the same things I am. Since he's in college he is on track to getting a good job.

 

 

These aren't things women want, they're things they expect. You have to be the guy they want before they even consider the things you mentioned.

 

OK....I am past 33..but I will tell you what I was after at 33.

 

A guy that is attractive to me - paramount - no one can date someone they find unattractive - we all know that.

Funny - yep - gotta have a sense of humour that matches mine. If he thinks farting is funny then sorry..it's lame. I like observational humour much more or...just about anything other than toilet humour as it's juvenile.

Intelligent humour is the best.

 

Easy to talk to - yep - tells me about his hobbies and life with no negs and comes over as happy.

 

Wanting more than sex is important but I want to know he is sexually interested in me..if I am in him.

 

I don't need someone into the same things as me. Open to initiation is my view. BUT...I would not want someone to attend something just because I like it

 

Being in college is fine.

At 33 I would expect college to be online or extra studies aside from their full time job though.

[Anela]

 

ThaWholigan made a thread about what women wants but it's what he thinks women want. I want posts from actual women, regardless of how pretty he is in his avatar.

 

Generally, when we say what we want, you don't listen to us. Wholigan listens, so he has a good idea of what will help you.