Are you a feminist?

[jay1983]

Let's say, inflation aside, real wages for men had doubled. No feminism, women are at home.

 

Landlords, seeing that they could charge more, did.

 

Wouldn't this bother you? That a class of society sees it fit to take more of your money, despite having no increase in costs, while giving you nothing in return?

 

Yeah, but not a whole lot I can do about it. It's like modern day feminism, I don't like that, but there isn't a whole lot I can do about it.

[Woggle]

Reagan had more to do with economic realities than feminism did. I certainly have my issues with militant feminists but it was the fleecing the poor and middle class got in the 80s that screwed them over.

 

Another thing is that the feminists you see today on campuses and on blogs are not the same kind that were fighting for rights in the 60s and 70s. Even many veterans of that era don't like what it has turned into. I think some gender warriors won't be happy until men and women no longer have anything to do with each other.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

*snip*

 

Ufo, your post was one of the most blessed and magical things I have ever read on this forum. I'm not even a little ashamed to say I'm at least half in love with you at this point.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I agree it's not complete responsible for destroying families and I understand what you're saying, but what about the kids?

 

How is feminism responsible for the lack of fathers in the homes of folks who live in ghettos?

[lollipopspot]

As a general rule you need two incomes to buy or even rent within 10k of the city. This has nothing to do with feminism and EVERYTHING to do with global economic circumstances. We had a large ex-pat population who bought property in AUD but were earning pound or Euro. Then returning to Australia with lots and lots of money. This pushed prices up as people were able to pay more.

 

Then there was the GFC, which didn't really impact Australia as we were in a mining boom. It was this book that saw housing prices in Western Australia absolutley skyrocket for a fibro shack. Those clever feminists and their iron-ore mines pushing housing prices up.

 

Now we have plenty of investment of Asia, particularly the growing wealth in China investing in the property market and renting. Again, maintaining prices high. We also have tax incentives to buy property - negative gearing.

 

Reagan had more to do with economic realities than feminism did. I certainly have my issues with militant feminists but it was the fleecing the poor and middle class got in the 80s that screwed them over.

 

Yes. It's odd to me that "feminism" gets blamed for these large economic realities. If feminists had this kind of power, the ERA would have been passed, rape wouldn't be under-reported and under-prosecuted, porn wouldn't exist as it does today - ubiquitous, degrading, violent, etc. A fairly small group of people identify themselves as feminists, and their power is over-rated. I think it's just easy to level ire at this amorphous word than to study the larger economic and other realities that are affecting most of our lives.

 

The thing about any shift in power dynamic is where one gets more (the ability to work, control over fertility, the ability to leave a relationship etc) then it follows that the other must acceed some power, but that doesn't happen easily.

 

In the workplace I still observe men not wanting to share power with women. The tactics are very subtle and subversive but they are there. Of course, it is not recognised as a power shift. It is called women not wanting to work long hours or having meetings at times when anyone with child care responsibilities cannot attend (but mostly women). When in reality a cultural change can be more accommodating. If men took on more responsibilities for house and family then this change would happen really, really quickly.

 

Change is very hard for people. I think that's due to the nature of humans, most of us don't deal with change well and we feel threatened. Whether it's changing race relations, gender relations, animal relations, etc. Someone loses "power over," and someone gains a right that should have been theirs by birth.

[thefooloftheyear]

How is feminism responsible for the lack of fathers in the homes of folks who live in ghettos?

 

Women with strong feminist values dont know how to raise male children into proper men......Thats my opinion, and I'll stand by it..

 

TFY

[Rejected Rosebud]

And that's the intent....not to "liberate" women or people - but to create a dependence on government.

 

Sorry, you're wrong. Maybe if you would like to learn about feminism you could listen to some people who consider themselves to be feminists, after all, we live it!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Ok, then why is there a need to take the "Women's Movement" to the Presidency.

 

I think that if there had been no women's movement, no woman would be close to becoming President.

 

I thought women and girls in the US were no longer "repressed"?

 

Yes! That's what I think, too.

 

Then, she talks about women who need help internationally. Well, besides using this as a ploy to get votes, what has she actually done for women over the world?

 

Mother Teresa, Angelina Jolie and others have done more for women internationally than Hillary Clinton. And, they didn't need a office or job in politics to make it happen.

 

I don't know why you have become all enraged about Ms. Clinton. She is a politician looking for votes. Of course people interested in women's issues would be a good demographic for her to target. Every politician targets groups where they're likely to accrue votes.

 

Political behavior is not related to feminism.

[Woggle]

Feminism might not be directly responsible for lack of fathers but the more extreme kind made it cool to bash fathers and for wealthy white women to have fatherless kids and call themselves progressive.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Feminism "does" have a role in this because a woman who "choses" to stay home is ridiculed by the Feminist movement.

 

No they're not.

 

Shoot, even some of the responses to this tread confirm that's the beliefs of Feminists. Some responders to this thread said 'Feminism gave me more options than marrying and having kids, I could get a job'.

 

Right! That is great, isn't it? We have more options than staying home, married with kids. That is not the life for everybody with ovaries.

 

Do you mind my asking, are you a stay at home mom yourself?

[todreaminblue]

You may not believe in feminism, but what you wrote is part of what feminism is. Being able to be what you want do what you want, whether it's wearing heels or combat boots. I'm a feminist and I'm quite feminine, on any given day you will find me wearing heels and red lipstick. Feminism does not equal "masculine".

 

As for having a job shooting someone in the head or cutting someone's throat;

I don't believe that is a job suited for anyone, man or woman. Why do so many men develop PTSD, night terrors and flashbacks if they were built to be killers. I think it's a disservice to men to say that's a job suited for them. I don't think anyone man or woman is psychologically built to endure a job like that(unless they're sociopaths)

 

 

i don't believe what i wrote equates to feminism at all......i don't believe what i wrote needs to have a label to it....unfortunately there are wars...and terrorists and real sociopaths...... and men will always need to be executioners it would be preferable that no one had to do it......but seeing as there will be wars and terrorists and real sociopaths till the end of days......i am glad that good hearted men step forward to protect hearts and homes in every country that needs them too, and dont in any way shape or form, regard defence as a disservice..i have the utmost respect for men........respect rather that they serve with courage and dignity and do those awful ptsd inducing chores that protect the rights and lives of others.............

 

back in the day feminism had a purpose ....it fulfilled the role it was meant to.....its out of hand in many ways now, in most cases and gone hardcore..misandrists instead of misoygnists... and often does not seem to honor a mans rights or have respect for the many roles and responsibilities a man takes on that a woman just cant do...for that reason i feel feminism is outdated antiquated and self serving towards women and not equal at all............its become lopsided and doesnt fare for equality ie being more about demands for respect than entreating equality and respect for all humanity...male or female.....deb.....

Edited October 28, 2014 by todreaminblue

[Rejected Rosebud]

Rosebud, may I ask who you follow?

 

I am not sure what you mean but as far as feminism goes I don't follow anyone. My parents raised me to know that I can choose the path of my own life and I always have, so have my sisters. One of them is a stay at home mom, it's a choice she is happy with.

 

Honestly this thread surprises me, my friends and family don't have any problems with feminism.

[fortyninethousand322]

I won't speak for anyone else, but every mainstream feminist organization happens to be extremely left wing. To the point where I really wonder if you have to be on the left in order to be a feminist.

[camillalev]

I Don?t Support Feminism If It Means Murdering All Men | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Woggle]

Doesn't the Scum Manifesto actually advocate exterminating men?

[camillalev]

Doesn't the Scum Manifesto actually advocate exterminating men?

 

I have no idea what the 'scum manifesto' is, but if it's what it sounds like, I would not bother reading such a thing. There a few extreme people in this world, that's just a fact. I mean some firmly believe the earth is flat, I don't read all their manifestos and get worked up because I believe the earth is round. In the civil rights movement a few extremists believed tha African Americans were not only equal but superior to Caucasians. I don't use that information to dismiss the civil rights movement altogether. Those few extremists will always exist.

[todreaminblue]

I have no idea what the 'scum manifesto' is, but if it's what it sounds like, I would not bother reading such a thing. There a few extreme people in this world, that's just a fact. I mean some firmly believe the earth is flat, I don't read all their manifestos and get worked up because I believe the earth is round. In the civil rights movement a few extremists believed tha African Americans were not only equal but superior to Caucasians. I don't use that information to dismiss the civil rights movement altogether. Those few extremists will always exist.

 

to have a movement there has to be a point where a movement can be still and rest to have reached a purpose and recognise the journey...some movements are meant to be retired to have progression in other areas..like a united family"ism" striving to make it in a world where family staying together....is unlikely........

 

and i have no idea either what scum manifesto is.....

 

deb

[ufo8mycat]

I won't speak for anyone else, but every mainstream feminist organization happens to be extremely left wing. To the point where I really wonder if you have to be on the left in order to be a feminist.

 

This is an interesting point so I did a google search on "right wing" and conservative feminism. It appears that you can be both. The critical difference that I could see in my small bit of research is the focus on the collective (left) v the individual (right). There are common issues but different ideologies and solutions.

 

So no, you don't need to be a flag waving leftie to be a feminist.

[gaius]

I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world for housing prices - both renting and buying and have lived here since it went totally gangbusters price wise in the late 1990's.

 

As a general rule you need two incomes to buy or even rent within 10k of the city. This has nothing to do with feminism and EVERYTHING to do with global economic circumstances. We had a large ex-pat population who bought property in AUD but were earning pound or Euro. Then returning to Australia with lots and lots of money. This pushed prices up as people were able to pay more.

 

Then there was the GFC, which didn't really impact Australia as we were in a mining boom. It was this book that saw housing prices in Western Australia absolutley skyrocket for a fibro shack. Those clever feminists and their iron-ore mines pushing housing prices up.

 

Now we have plenty of investment of Asia, particularly the growing wealth in China investing in the property market and renting. Again, maintaining prices high. We also have tax incentives to buy property - negative gearing. Those on two incomes are able to make better use of this.

 

Maybe the US is different though where feminists have more power than the economy.

 

I am a feminist and I know plenty of other feminists. Men, women, mums who stay at home and mums who work.

 

We talk about about choice and for many women choice was very limited until the late 60's. Particularly in terms of education, work and family. I don't think many feminists take issue with mums who choose to stay at home but it needs to be acknowledged that this is a choice that must be enabled by a partner with the support and means to allow this.

 

Not everyone has this.

 

As a feminist, I would also like to see men have the opportunity to exercise a choice to spend more time with their families; and for women to support this. I believe parents are good for kids and women are not the gatekeepers to parenting beyond the first few months.

 

I also don't believe it is reasonable to expect feminists to represent every group in terms of achieving equality. For example, not all feminists support transgender women. Men need to have their own voice and arguments rather than stamping an obnoxious foot going "what are the feminists doing about <insert my issue here>.

 

The thing about any shift in power dynamic is where one gets more (the ability to work, control over fertility, the ability to leave a relationship etc) then it follows that the other must acceed some power, but that doesn't happen easily.

 

In the workplace I still observe men not wanting to share power with women. The tactics are very subtle and subversive but they are there. Of course, it is not recognised as a power shift. It is called women not wanting to work long hours or having meetings at times when anyone with child care responsibilities cannot attend (but mostly women). When in reality a cultural change can be more accommodating. If men took on more responsibilities for house and family then this change would happen really, really quickly.

Just for kicks I peeked at some data from the last Sydney census and apparently 40% of all households only include one person. So assuming half of those are women you're looking at a pretty significant demand decrease if women couldn't support themselves and had to live with their parents/husbands instead. I don't know on what planet you can pretend all that extra demand isn't at least partially responsible for higher prices.

 

It's really not a knock on feminism to admit to some pretty obvious economic realities.

[ufo8mycat]

Just for kicks I peeked at some data from the last Sydney census and apparently 40% of all households only include one person. So assuming half of those are women you're looking at a pretty significant demand decrease if women couldn't support themselves and had to live with their parents/husbands instead. I don't know on what planet you can pretend all that extra demand isn't at least partially responsible for higher prices.

 

It's really not a knock on feminism to admit to some pretty obvious economic realities.

 

Of course demand is related to higher prices and single person households are on the increase - for many different reasons. Not just "feminism". You need to look at who is living on their own, and why. For many I believe it is because they (or their parents for international students) can afford it and there is no economic driver to live at home or share.

 

I wouldn't draw a conclusion so far as to say half are women though. Do you have a link to the data?

[angie2443]

I read several definitions of feminism and they all basically said the same thing- feminism is the belief, ideology, ect. that says women should have the same rights that men have. That's it. Nothing else to it. By this definition, I am a feminist. At the same time, I'll never refer to myself as a feminist again. The word has become so twisted and has been given so many definitions by various people that it has almost become meaningless.

 

I will say a couple of things in defense feminism (I'm going by it's basic dictionary definition). It did not, is not, and will not destroy families. It can't. It is only a simple belief system. Plenty of men abandoned their families long before feminism was born. That is nothing new. To think that a belief in equality is going to destroy families all over the place is really very silly.

 

Maybe off topic. This is dirrected to the people in this thread who seem to be looking down at stay at home moms. Stay at home moms are no exception. Having said that, plenty of stay at home moms work their @$$es off taking very good care of their kids. I was a stay at home mom for years untill my kids were all at school. It was a never ending job. I'm glad I was able to stay home because it was best for my family at the time. Having said that, I work full time now and it is way less exhausting than taking care of the kids from morning till night on a daily basis.

[boilingpoint]

My feelings towards feminism are perfectly described by Roxane Gay in her essay "Bad Feminist"... I strongly recommend all of you to google for the pdf and read it.

 

Imo, I believe feminism should be about equal rights for both sexes, and the ability of women and all other genders (if you know what I mean) to do what they want, whether that be traditional, ambitious, both of these things etc. I think it's supposed to create some freedom for ANYBODY who felt under pressure by a (come on we cannot deny this is the truth:) male-dominated world.

 

The problem is that as long as it is called 'feminism' it will be be 99% about female issues from the female perspective.

 

If it's about true equality it's called egalitarianism.

[amaysngrace]

A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.

 

I'm all for equal rights. But only equal. I'm not for preferential treatment however.

 

Towards anyone.

 

Except maybe Veterans...and Senior Citizens...Seniors should definitely get 15% off a movie...I'm good with that...

[angie2443]

Doesn't the Scum Manifesto actually advocate exterminating men?

 

Are you really equating this with feminism?? The Scum Manifesto is simply a book written by a very angry, hateful, crazy woman. That's all. It has nothing to do with feminism and link it to feminism is, IMO, kind of ignorant. There are extremist everywhere. Every group, from Christians to atheists has their extremists. This doesn't mean we should identify the group they chose to latch onto as extreme also.

[Taramere]

The problem is that as long as it is called 'feminism' it will be be 99% about female issues from the female perspective.

 

If it's about true equality it's called egalitarianism.

 

If female issues involve both rights and personal responsibilities (responsibility to ourselves, and responsibility towards others/respect for their rights) then that seems like a good step towards egalitarianism to me.

 

Anti-feminists will always insist on perceiving feminism as something that is concerned purely with female entitlement and our sense of our own rights. There's nothing to be done about that. People are entitled to perceive things however they want. Just don't expect the people or philosophies you've decided to adopt a particular perception of to define themselves in accordance with your terms.