Emotional Timeline

[beach]

Why not find out more truth? Either have your W take a polygraph or ask her OM.

 

Since your wife doesn't go to extremes to make you feel special and as her top priority - is it really worth staying with her for a "lukewarm" marriage?

 

 

In retrospect I don't think your wife felt uncomfortable enough - or enough consequences - from her cheating. She still seems entitled and self centered. That sucks sorry to say.

 

And the obvious is she may still be cheating but hiding it better.

[jm2013]

Why not find out more truth? Either have your W take a polygraph or ask her OM.

 

Since your wife doesn't go to extremes to make you feel special and as her top priority - is it really worth staying with her for a "lukewarm" marriage?

 

It depends on what you consider extremes. She tries to do everything for me. I know she's putting forth a lot of efforts on her part. Most of this is my own mental stuff I'm dealing with.

 

 

In retrospect I don't think your wife felt uncomfortable enough - or enough consequences - from her cheating. She still seems entitled and self centered. That sucks sorry to say.

 

 

 

And the obvious is she may still be cheating but hiding it better.

 

I have thought about this a bit to be honest. I was the one who moved out. I created a very uncertain environment for her. She had gotten notices in the mail of a pending divorce and my representation. She did not speak a word of receiving this material. She acted like it never reached her. I finally had asked her about it and she said she just tossed it in the trash. But really, there wasn't much of a consequence so to speak. I am the one who left. Though she knows about another woman who I was briefly with. Which really, wasn't anything. That may have stung a little. She seemed pretty upset about it and said she caused it. I'm really trying to see through her. At times it seems like she catches who she used to be and just stops. If she's really suppressing an old her would that old her reappear out of nowhere in the near future?

 

I don't think she's currently cheating. She literally would have no time. Her work time would have to be engulfed in the affair and hidden at a half hour lunch. Unless of course she was taking days off I did not know about to be with him. This all would not make sense though with the effort she's putting in to restore our marriage. We have lots of sex too so if she was with him I don't think that would be as much.

[Man Mountain Makino]

So I was at my wife's work last week and went into her office. I couldn't help but notice she has our daughter displayed all over her office and only one family picture of all of us. I don't know if I'm over analyzing this but the thought crossed my mind.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion from the photo. I have worked for three major law firms over a decade, and pictures of children in offices are common but pictures of spouses/families are relatively rare. I can't say why, but I don't think any reasonable interpretation supports your conclusion. It's just the way it is.

 

Also, men will now and then have a picture of their pretty wife, but women will seldom have a picture of their husband. It's doubt it is because they're cruising the hallways for dates.

 

To be fair, adultery is not uncommon in any of the firms. That's a function of people spending most of their time here with the people here. The photos aren't a big deal.

 

I feel for you, but stay cool, bro.

[Sub]

At times it seems like she catches who she used to be and just stops. If she's really suppressing an old her would that old her reappear out of nowhere in the near future?

 

Do you mean "old her" as in how she was during the A? Or prior to that? I guess there's the fear/possibility that the A version of a WW is closer to reality than their spouse would think. That there's more to them that we don't know or in denial about. It depends on how close the two people were before the A. In my friends case, I think it was easy for his W to do it. Even before they were married, they were both the type to do their own thing and sacrifice family time for their careers. I was shocked that she'd be the type to actually do it, but not shocked that it was happening. If that makes sense.

[jm2013]

Do you mean "old her" as in how she was during the A? Or prior to that? I guess there's the fear/possibility that the A version of a WW is closer to reality than their spouse would think. That there's more to them that we don't know or in denial about. It depends on how close the two people were before the A. In my friends case, I think it was easy for his W to do it. Even before they were married, they were both the type to do their own thing and sacrifice family time for their careers. I was shocked that she'd be the type to actually do it, but not shocked that it was happening. If that makes sense.

 

Well, not how she was during the affair. The more I take a step back and analyze her behavior during the affair it makes me sick. This part doesn't make sense of who the woman is in front of me now to who this woman was when she was having an affair. They were completely two different people. For instance. Before I uncovered her affair I tried so hard to change for her. I was totally diluted to the fact she was engaged in an affair. I was working out daily, paying more attention and not arguing with her as much.

 

Through this time of a couple months of me putting forth 100% effort it was like she was completely oblivious to it. Then one day I brought back roses, a horse excursion and passes to an amusement park for us to rekindle our marriage and spend one on one time together. When she received this stuff she broke down. That was allegedly one day she had just got done having sex with him. But her attitude was way off. She broke me down as a man. The things she would say were not good at all. At one point she even bargained sex for me. Saying if I worked out with her she'd have sex with me. Then I would work out with her and she wouldn't have sex with me. Like what the hell was she even thinking?

 

Anyways. This new woman in front of me now exhibits 0 of what that was all about. Like a light switch it all disappeared. I have a feeling they were still communicating all the way up to October/Novemberish of last year. I'm not sure what went down. But now she appears to be totally committed to our marriage. Has done many things. But there has been times I've seen snippets of the old her jump out. Like if we're downstairs on the computer doing something and we have a minor disagreement she gets snippy at me for a minute than catches herself and apologizes.

 

It's like she fears that if she does some of the old things she used to do she's walking on egg shells. And she knows now the dynamics of our relationship have changed a lot. I told her and the counselor that now if I ever get unhappy I'd just walk. I have no problem doing that now if I feel I need to. Before I found out about the affair I was in for the long haul even if we had arguments and disagreements. That was marriage and was correctable. Toss an affair in the middle of all that and it is no longer like that. The dynamics have changed considerably. I'm just trying to figure out if she has authentically changed or if she has caged that little animal up who might show again later on down the road.

[badkarma2013]

Originally Posted by jm2013 View Post

If she said - "I tried to be with him and he did not want any part of it. He did not want to leave his wife because that would destroy his family. So I figured I would give us a shot". That of course doesn't sound too good.

 

 

 

All WSs and BSs should read this...this all is very true

it's the little triggers, little stabs that will be there even 5 years from now, or 10, or 20.

 

It's the disbelief BS feels and will always feel, never quite understanding how WS could have done that.

But WS did.

 

WS may have said over and over that they have told the full truth and BS might have decided to believe them. But BS always knows that WS has told them as much truth as WS thought was necessary, not the 100% truth that BS thought was necessary. WS will NEVER reveal what they were really thinking at the time. BS will be left with nagging doubts FOREVER, powerless to do anything about it because BS wasn't there or wasn't inside WS's head.

That is the hardest thing to live with.

 

EA or PA. A month or a year. Sex once or a hundred times. One lie or fifty. It doesn't matter. All the damage was done in the moment that WS took that step. It destroyed what was, and what will never be the same again no matter what WS does.

That time is gone.

 

BS thought WS was someone they could trust with their life, their best friend in the world, their confidant, someone who would always stand by them.

That's what BS thought, and BS was wrong, so wrong.

 

BS sometimes remembers what it was like when there wasn't that little cloud overhead.

And feels a pang as they think of when the sky was blue.

 

BS would have never chosen this for themselves. Yet somehow they found themselves in it.

 

Now it's Plan B. And it will always be Plan B.

 

R is the Plan B version of marriage.

 

It might be a strange thing to say, but so grievous is the wound of betrayal that had WS died, the pain would be easier. The sadness would be a different kind of sadness.

A more tolerable kind of sadness.

 

 

I could not nor would i EVER forget what my WW did.....i filed for D...I think had I stayed and tried to R ...I truly think this would have been my future!

[revelations]

Wow, what a bleak outlook on life and M. This is so incorrect on so many levels. I for one love my FWH totally and I am happy to be his W even though he made the huge error in judgement by cheating six years ago. I also never felt like my DH second choice. I know now and always have known that I am his first choice, his lover and his W. And I have been faithful to him since I met him and will NEVER be unfaithful. If he happens to cheat again, I can happily divorce him and move on with my life. But I am so glad every day to have him in my life.

 

My outlook may seem bleak however it is fact on all levels. You may not feel like your husband's second choice. I was told by my ex that I was her second choice. I am glad that I was able to walk away from her and stay away from other women like her. Truthfully it is not worth my time and resources anymore. I have a lot more peace in my life today being single. Getting laid is easy, that is what escorts are for. If I am ever lacking for companionship then I will adopt a dog. However my friends cat has seem to adopted me for some reason (never was a cat person). So I was a second choice to my ex, however I was my own first choice. I found out just how cruel a lot of women actually are, usually to the ones they claim to love the most. I am no longer fooled by that.

[beach]

I don't care if you say she doesn't have time. I'd assume she is still communicating with her OM somehow and seeing him sometimes.

 

Is he at her work? Does she have a burner phone? Have you placed a voice activated recorder in her car and office?

 

If she's not all in and willing to give you 200% effort after cheating - then she's probably giving that effort to someone else but pretending with you so you don't divorce her.

 

Her sense of entitlement is strong. You have to get willing to make her afraid it's over.

 

Why didn't SHE move when SHE cheated? You've given her very few consequences... Which makes it easier for her to continue cheating and justify carrying on further by tearing you as less than.

 

That would never work for me.

 

There's a reason you don't feel important to your wife - it's because she's not making effort!

[badkarma2013]

My outlook may seem bleak however it is fact on all levels. You may not feel like your husband's second choice. I was told by my ex that I was her second choice. I am glad that I was able to walk away from her and stay away from other women like her. Truthfully it is not worth my time and resources anymore. I have a lot more peace in my life today being single. Getting laid is easy, that is what escorts are for. If I am ever lacking for companionship then I will adopt a dog. However my friends cat has seem to adopted me for some reason (never was a cat person). So I was a second choice to my ex, however I was my own first choice. I found out just how cruel a lot of women actually are, usually to the ones they claim to love the most. I am no longer fooled by that.

 

 

 

...

 

Could not agree more...again some case of R work for some people...however the LIES ,DECEIT and DEPTHS OF BETRAYAL that come to light after D-DAY and the upcoming weeks and months ( If the WS is honest) ....WILL NEVER LEAVE THE BS....EVER..

 

Ive spoken to a couple on another site...who the wife confessed an ongoing affair to her husband over 25years ago...at that time they...he decide to R....HE STILL AFTER 25 YEARS DEALING WITH ISSUES FROM THIS EVENT.......25 YEARS , GRANTED NOT AS SEVERE BUT THERE NONE THE LESS.

 

WHY?

[drifter777]

I don't think she's currently cheating. She literally would have no time. Her work time would have to be engulfed in the affair and hidden at a half hour lunch. Unless of course she was taking days off I did not know about to be with him. This all would not make sense though with the effort she's putting in to restore our marriage. We have lots of sex too so if she was with him I don't think that would be as much.

You are probably right, but none of the reasons you list here support your belief that she's not cheating. If she wants it then she'll find a way. Think about how well she hid it before d-day.

 

jm,

When you make the choice to reconcile you have to do it with full awareness that you are exposing yourself to the very real risk of being betrayed again in the future and the risk of the reconciliation simply not working out. And despite the possibility of facing excruciating pain and heart-break again in the future, you need to dive head first into the reconciliation and give it everything you've got. In other words, put your heart back out there on a platter. It's a high risk / high reward situation. If you're holding some of yourself back to protect yourself or simply can't fully invest in the reconciliation, you shouldn't even bother trying.

There are some good points in here, but in no way would I ever advise someone to put their heart back out there on "a silver platter". If you've learned anything through all of this its that trusting your wife unconditionally was a bad idea. Trusting anyone unconditionally is probably something none of us should ever do. As for a WS - at best people say "trust but verify". Blind trust is never warranted. I also think you need to reassess your progress or lack there of from time to time - like you are doing now. If you feel like things are stagnating - emotionally - then you might have made as much progress as you ever will. I think once a man get's to this state things actually start to get worse as he begins to realize he's just not going to be able to accept her cheating.

 

I don't know the percentage of reconciliations that work or that fail. I do know from my personal experience and research I have done that it is a real crap-shoot as to whether a man will reach forgiveness with his WW. I've said it many times here - a lot depends on the individual man and his fundamental belief's about sex and fidelity. If your one of those people for whom "sex is just sex" then you have a leg up on those of us for whom sex within our marriage is sacred. Where would you put yourself when it comes to the sexual component of your wife's affair?

[merrmeade]

For myself, I've read here and tried to synthesize. What stands out for me is that the happiest people, whether they tried to reconcile or they divorced, are the ones who decided their happiness depended on themselves. That's one thing.

 

The other thing is even that does not solve the basic fallout from d-Day, the trauma and shock of the discovery of betrayal, the loss of innocence and trust, the realization that you'd been tricked and lied to and didn't share most of what you thought you shared. I still don't know what to do with that. Getting away from d-Day just clarifies it. I'm going for IC as soon as possible.

 

Apart from that, I do feel and see that my spouse is committed, wants to make us work, has learned from his mistakes, is a changed person, has told me everything I've asked and is doing the best he can. However. However. There are too many howevers.

• The "best he can" just may not be enough any more.
  
• What he's told me, what I've asked still isn't everything, and the fact that he can't figure out what else I need to hear from him and know is also a 'however' problem.
  
• He isn't changed enough. His mistakes were just so many, involving character, ideology and moral consistency that we haven't even begun to address. (I don't feel comfortable or qualified to have this discussion at this time. It would be too destructive, a dialogue that he/we wouldn't come back from. I do have my integrity and destroying his psyche is not one of my goals - and it would. This conversation requires a specialist.)
  

And I suppose all this takes time. Meanwhile, I have slowly slid down into hopelessness faster than "we" are recovering hope. So at the moment, I think I'll put my few remaining eggs of hope into the IC basket and focus on me.

 

Hope this relates appropriately to the thread and your situation. I tried.

Edited October 28, 2014 by merrmeade

[jnel921]

I hate to say this but I don't have any pics of my kids or H in my work area. I have a screensaver of my dogs.

 

It doesn't mean I love them any less. I just don't need the prying eyes at my desk.

 

I try not to talk a whole lot about my family at work, it just no one's business. I am a manager and there is only but so much I want my team to know about me and my life.

[merrmeade]

Summary intended earlier:

Regardless of anything, hope means finding happiness, strength, clarity, purpose, growth, satisfaction with or without a partner.

 

But should also add that whatever happens, I'm not sorry I stayed because I got most of what I wanted to know and that would NOT have happened if I'd left. I'm 100% sure I'd still be eaten up by not knowing.

 

So, OP, I'm sure you need that much. Finding out the truth is the beginning of the end, whatever the end needs to be for you, your wife and your marriage.

Edited October 28, 2014 by merrmeade

[beach]

This may be as good as it gets- it may be all she intends to offer to the marriage.

 

Is that enough for you to stay married to her?

[Friskyone4u]

JM2013

 

You need to get this polygraph asap and you need to out a VAR in her car. If she is lying and still in contact it will certainly be on cell or burner phone in car when she thinks you are clueless. If you trust her now you are asking for more heartache:

And screw her outrage at polygraph , if she refuses there is a reason and you know what it is. Make the appointment, tell her, and you may just get a confession since she will be scared of the results.

If you do not protect yourself no one else can help you

[Sub]

Whoah. Did I miss where jm said there were any indications she was in contact with her AP again? Two years after D-day and he should have her take a polygraph and track her? What am I missing?

[merrmeade]

Whoah. Did I miss where jm said there were any indications she was in contact with her AP again? Two years after D-day and he should have her take a polygraph and track her? What am I missing?

See post #27.

[Sub]

See post #27.

He's not presenting reason to speculate whether or not she's lying to him again in that post. There aren't any specific instances of curious behavior on her part. In fact, he's kind of saying the opposite. All he's conceding is: "anything's possible, but...."

[SawtoothMars]

I could have written that post almost word for word. And yeah, I think this is just how it is after an affair. It's funny too, because if you really think about it, an affair partner is JUST another boyfriend. She probably had a few before she met you, and I'm sure none of the thoughts about those guys turn your stomach like this latest one. 5 years later, I can tell you that my wife's OM, to me, has been filed away with all the other boyfriends that I don't give a rat's ass about. In fact, if I had to rank him, he'd be near the bottom of the pile. Se could have done much better..

 

No.... you are very wrong here. An affair is NOT the same as dating someone. An affair is like doing cocaine and ecstasy together. The emotions are completely different and the level of addiction is off the charts!

 

So... maybe to you he is just another boyfriend in the past... but I really doubt she sees it the same way.

[jm2013]

As of right now I don't have any reason that she'd be still engaged in an affair right now. Of course I do not know if she isn't definitively. After living through all of this so far nothing would surprise me. With that being said, the reason that I've been more blah lately is cause there are bits and pieces that surface that are new to me. A couple of weeks ago I got to listen about how my wife gave this guy a tug one day. It's obvious she was concerned about his sexual well being. I wouldn't doubt she has done much more either. I am pretty sure she's still lying about things but of course I am not definitive. I will be letting her know after the holidays that I want her to take a lie detector test. I really want this to be a surprise to her as well. I do not want her to have any time to try and prepare for it to beat the system if you know what I mean.

 

I know some may ask what will that help to know there's been a lot more. I say this.. If she still feels the need to keep things closed then there's no need for us to continue. If she feels the need to still lie to me then we have no future. No trust can or will ever be built. It would be surprising because I have had to re-iterate this about a million times with her. Even our counselor has asked a few times - "If there's more get it out now so if something resurfaces in the future it doesn't restart everything or destroy any progress you two have made".

Edited October 30, 2014 by jm2013

[jm2013]

I forgot to mention something. This was a big turn off. The other night we were downstairs and I was getting tax information together. Anyways, I stumbled on some papers where we opened a merchant account for processing which was dated at right around the same time she started her affair. I think I said something like "I can't believe you did that when we had this new business and you were doing that.". She said something like "Yes, I had an affair" then left to go upstairs. I think when I was sitting there looking and basically mumbling to myself a few things. It's a bit agitating looking over at things that were done knowing your spouse was running around with somebody else. It is down right disturbing. Instead of any comfort, sorry or anything she just said that and left. I don't know if I'm over analyzing that but it seemed pretty you know what if you know what I mean.

[Sub]

So the polygraph would be to find out about things that happened during the A? Are these things that you've already asked her and you think she's lying about?

[jm2013]

So the polygraph would be to find out about things that happened during the A? Are these things that you've already asked her and you think she's lying about?

 

About the affair and about contact. I've asked her many things. But things leak out here and there. I have had that weird gut feeling that there is a lot she hasn't told me about. I used to think I was in the 90% range but I am now starting to question what I had thought. I know some people may not think it's relevant to try and verify everything. But it is important to me. If she's still lying to me about things what is the point? IT would validate she's still a liar and very much capable to continue on with an affair in the future and have no problem lying to me about it.

Edited October 30, 2014 by jm2013

[Sub]

I think if your goal is to know every single element of the A, every word said, every act done....I don't see the point of continuing, to be honest. I'm not saying it's not your right, or you're being irrational. I totally get the desire to have all the info. I just don't see a surprise polygraph after the holidays doing anything positive for your M. It may give you what you want, for now. But look at what you're saying here: you're looking to validate your W as a liar. If you're suspicions are true, end of M. And if they're not, can you say with any certainty that it will ease your mind in the slightest?

[jm2013]

I think if your goal is to know every single element of the A, every word said, every act done....I don't see the point of continuing, to be honest. I'm not saying it's not your right, or you're being irrational. I totally get the desire to have all the info. I just don't see a surprise polygraph after the holidays doing anything positive for your M. It may give you what you want, for now. But look at what you're saying here: you're looking to validate your W as a liar. If you're suspicions are true, end of M. And if they're not, can you say with any certainty that it will ease your mind in the slightest?

 

I don't want to know every word. I want to know how many times. If it was at our house. If she sucked his you know what and if she loves or really did love him. I also want to know if she had continued contact with him after our R while at work or wherever. Last but not least I would want to know if he did not want to be with her which is why she wants to make it work for me. Or if she is telling the truth that he pursued her etc. I don't know guys. Maybe some people are right here. There may be some people who can stomach it and move on. I have tried to think about how I would feel even a year out from now. The one time I posted my wife and I had experienced things we haven't had before or haven't done in a long time. While that is all great and all I started to accumulate other feelings of just blah with her lately. That's why I asked about an emotional timeline to see if this is normal in a process or recovery or what.

 

The one thread BH replied to struck me. I think he said something along the lines of 80% of BS's move on after a couple years after D-Day. It's like after it has all sunk in you look at everything and the emotional trauma you've gone through and have this person in front of you as a constant reminder of what happened. Then you always have that thought in the back of your head like what if he contacts her - not if but when. How will she handle it? Will it re-ignite her feelings for him? I don't have a clue. Has it already happened? I do not know. I know it wouldn't be hard for him to reach out to her just to simply see how she's doing to see if he may be able to pick things up again.