Girlfriend of 5 years...Cheated.

[ascendotum]

My God, just reading that was horrible enough, I could only imagine how you feel actually going through that. You should look at the bright side of things though, you dodged a bullet with this girl. Imagine marrying & having a kid with this girl? Your life would have been a living hell. She sounds like she has anti-social personality disorder. In time you'll find a great girl who will treat you right, not this woman who will never have a good relationship with anyone.

 

Agree it was bit a wtf type situation where there was zero remorse and he got downgraded below her FWB guy in status. That old laptop of his - a treasure trove of evidence but also an emotional landmine. I wonder what would have happened if he had not found it. Could easily have married her and she (I've got no conscience girl) would be a sure thing for cheating on him during the marriage. Though before he visited her this txt-> “then find someone who can remember your birthday, god!” was a BIG heads up that she's not the girl for him even if he had not found the nudies + love videos to the other guy/s.

[SycamoreCircle]

"We could've had it all."

 

That's not true. The way you describe the relationship in its final chapter is not indicative of having it all. Quite the contrary.

 

"We could've had it all" is your romantic projection. You're going to have to let go of that. It is not real.

 

What you went through is terrible. But there's a saying, something like "You experience pain the first 12 seconds of a break up, the remainder of the time the pain is self-inflicted." I think there's some truth to that. This is the hardest time for you. And as I listen to you, I hear myself 6-7 months ago.

 

Do not paint this girl black. You think 5 years ago she planned all of this? She was intent on destroying you inside? That girl doesn't know what she's going to do in the next 5 minutes. She's a cruel, immature, egotistical and naive fool. She hurt you the way she did because it was convenient, because she's insecure and has no idea who she is and because she is a coward.

 

Who is she with now? Release George Clooney from the Roman gates to swoon and melt her. Whoever she is with now will be turned to dust. This is a growing phase for her(hopefully). Otherwise, lock your doors at night. We have a new Hillside Strangler.

 

My friend, stop watching these disgusting videos. Portrait of a Hormone. Delete that garbage. There is nothing new they will impart to you. Start filling your life with positive, enlivening things. Go for a walk and speak to a stranger. Find out something about the world you didn't know.

 

You are worth so much. You are ABLE to love. You are ABLE to open yourself to other people. You are ABLE to make yourself vulnerable to someone. Some people will never have that.

[Niko 2021]

Agree it was bit a wtf type situation where there was zero remorse and he got downgraded below her FWB guy in status. That old laptop of his - a treasure trove of evidence but also an emotional landmine. I wonder what would have happened if he had not found it. Could easily have married her and she (I've got no conscience girl) would be a sure thing for cheating on him during the marriage. Though before he visited her this txt-> “then find someone who can remember your birthday, god!” was a BIG heads up that she's not the girl for him even if he had not found the nudies + love videos to the other guy/s.

When she texted me "go find someone who can remember your birthday, god" I was at work. I had to go to the restroom, because immediate my eyes started to water. I was her fool. For the past year, she had me like this. She knew she could get away with it, because she knew i didn't want to lose her. She had the upper hand, I lost all leverage in the relationship once she cheated, but I only wished that I had known that. I was stupid to believe her when she said she's not cheating on me.

[Niko 2021]

"We could've had it all."

 

That's not true. The way you describe the relationship in its final chapter is not indicative of having it all. Quite the contrary.

 

"We could've had it all" is your romantic projection. You're going to have to let go of that. It is not real.

 

What you went through is terrible. But there's a saying, something like "You experience pain the first 12 seconds of a break up, the remainder of the time the pain is self-inflicted." I think there's some truth to that. This is the hardest time for you. And as I listen to you, I hear myself 6-7 months ago.

 

Do not paint this girl black. You think 5 years ago she planned all of this? She was intent on destroying you inside? That girl doesn't know what she's going to do in the next 5 minutes. She's a cruel, immature, egotistical and naive fool. She hurt you the way she did because it was convenient, because she's insecure and has no idea who she is and because she is a coward.

 

Who is she with now? Release George Clooney from the Roman gates to swoon and melt her. Whoever she is with now will be turned to dust. This is a growing phase for her(hopefully). Otherwise, lock your doors at night. We have a new Hillside Strangler.

 

My friend, stop watching these disgusting videos. Portrait of a Hormone. Delete that garbage. There is nothing new they will impart to you. Start filling your life with positive, enlivening things. Go for a walk and speak to a stranger. Find out something about the world you didn't know.

 

You are worth so much. You are ABLE to love. You are ABLE to open yourself to other people. You are ABLE to make yourself vulnerable to someone. Some people will never have that.

Honestly, everything you type, it actually helps me. You know her almost as good as I do. How did you know she had trouble opening up to people? I never mentioned that on here. She has trouble opening up to people all the time, even to me, and even to the guy she cheated on me with, she even mentioned it in the video to him.

 

Everyday I try not to sink. Everyday I try to look up. Sometimes I don't even know how I'm even supposed to feel. Sometimes I forget what exactly she did to me, then I'm quickly reminded. Every time I listen to the radio, I can't listen to promiscuous songs, I can't even talk or hear conversions about sex on the radio, tv, or internet, because it'll remind me of what they did. I'm trying, I really am. I started running again, I was always an avid runner, but stopped after what happened. I don't drink alcohol as much to cope, instead I read, drink tea, and try to go to bed with a sense of reconciliation. Waking up is hard, somehow everything just comes back in the morning. I wished we could've just ended on good terms, just saying bye, giving each other a hug, and me turning my back to walk towards my gate at the airport. Instead, I get a horrible car ride to the airport, with my last word to her being "no" when she asks if she should walk me in. I didn't look back, even to see her drive off. What a horrible way to end a relationship. Someone I was with for 5 years, that 'll never see again. I am worth so much, you're right. I work hard, I'm healthy, I'm athletic. I will stop watching the videos, I'm done parsing though everything. I loaded all the contents my old laptop that she used on a flash drive. Out of a bit of rage, I did break the laptop (she wasn't quite happy when she found out). Now I just delete the everything from the flash drive. I can't hold on anymore. I never even wanted her back to be honest. I only wanted what we had years ago. I wanted someone who did not exist anymore...

[Downtown]

On my previous threads I even said I hate self diagnosing people, but that I believed she was bipolar or had BPD.

Niko, none of us on this forum is able to diagnose your exGF because that would require a determination of whether her traits are so severe and persistent that she "has full blown BPD." There is a world of difference, however, between diagnosing a disorder and simply spotting strong warning signs of it.

 

Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. Likewise, you could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without knowing whether they had full-blown Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD.

 

Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits whenever they occur in a woman you've been dating for five years. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to avoid seeing the strong BPD traits. There is nothing subtle about behavioral traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you).

 

Hence, if you conclude that your exGF exhibits most BPD warning signs at a strong level, you should not be apologetic or shy about saying "She exhibits strong BPD traits" or "She seems to be on the upper end of the BPD spectrum." It also is correct to say "I suspect she has BPD." NONE of those expressions indicate you are pretending to be able to render a diagnosis. The reason is that you are not claiming you have determined her traits to be so severe and persistent that they satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for "having BPD."

 

Significantly, if you look at posts in the popular medical forums, you will find a thousand members describing their medical symptoms all day long -- and nobody attacks them for "trying to self diagnose" or for being "armchair doctors." They all know the difference between diagnosing and spotting symptoms. They all understand that, by learning to spot the symptoms, they are far more likely to seek professional help when they have a serious disease -- and are more likely to seek that help sooner, when the doctors still have time to fix it. Of course, when they do decide to seek help, the very first thing the doctor will ask is "What symptoms have you been seeing?"

 

You're spot on about her emotional immaturity.... I guess emotional immaturity is all I'll have to justify this mess by.

No, STH and Sycamore have provided you with far more insights than the term "emotional immaturity" implies. Generally, our society uses that term to describe an 19-year-old behaving like he is only 16. Yet, when Sycamore suggested "emotional immaturity" as a likely explanation for your exGF's BPD-like traits, he was not talking about a 25-year-old woman behaving like she is 21.

 

Rather, Sycamore was talking about a woman who experienced such neglect or abuse in childhood that her emotional development froze when she was only 3 or 4 years old. This is what happens to people exhibiting strong BPD traits. Because they have the emotional maturity of a four-year-old, they never learned the emotional coping skills the rest of us learned in childhood. They therefore are fully dependent on the primitive ego defenses that are available to very young children. These skills include denial (lying), projection, black-white thinking (splitting), and magical thinking.

 

There are many emotional skills that the BPDers never learned: how to do self soothing and manage one's own emotions; how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating ambiguities and mixed feelings; how to love in a mature way; how to trust others; and how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts." I mention all this to explain why, if you start thinking of your exGF as a woman behaving like a four-year-old, you likely will start understanding why so many of her selfish, childish behaviors occurred.

 

I mean who does these things? I never thought anyone could do the things that she's done.

The behaviors you describe are exactly what should be expected from a woman exhibiting strong traits of a "Cluster B" personality disorder. I therefore agree with STH, Sycamore, and you that you seem to be describing classic warning signs for ASPD (Sociopathy), NPD (Narcissistic PD), and -- perhaps to a lesser extent -- BPD.

 

Such a combination would not be unusual because most people suffering from one PD also have one or two others as well. For example, 40% of female narcissists -- and about 30% of female sociopaths -- also have co-occurring BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

I remain skeptical about the BPD warning signs for several reasons. One is that emotional instability is the key feature for BPD and it is unclear in your posts whether your exGF actually exhibited strong instability. You made some vague references to "lots of fighting" but never said that you've seen rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing every few weeks. Granted, your statement that you suspect "bipolar disorder" clearly indicates that you believe she is unstable. I'm only saying, then, that you've given few examples of unstable behavior occurring (or perhaps you did but I've forgotten them).

 

Another reason for skepticism is that, whereas BPDers are capable of intense (albeit immature) love like young children, you conclude that your exGF never loved you and is incapable of loving anyone -- a key characteristic of narcissists and sociopaths, not BPDers. A third reason is that, whereas BPDers are incapable of trusting you and thus have a great fear of abandonment, you don't describe her as having such a fear. You don't describe any situation, for example, where she exhibited irrational jealousy -- which would suggest a strong fear of abandonment. Moreover, you don't describe her as being clingy but, rather, as being fiercely independent.

 

Finally, a fourth reason is that, whereas BPDers typically lack impulse control, your GF is described as coolly calculating and manipulative -- something that would be very difficult to do if she were highly reactive (as BPDers are) to whatever event is occurring that very moment. That said, I nonetheless would agree that, if you really did see both strong instability and impulsiveness, then the BPD warning signs likely are as strong as those for ASPD and NPD.

[SycamoreCircle]

Brother, it is exactly the same with me. I want the person I started the relationship with, not the incarnation I was left with in the end.

 

Yes, mornings were the worst. There's that split second between waking and cognizance where you think it's all a bad dream. Then reality settles.

 

I promise it will get better. When time and new events, new people begin to unfold between that terrible end and the continuation of your life, the pain will start to fade.

 

Yes, why wouldn't a person want an honest, noble end to a 5 year investment of time, emotion and money? Why?

 

Let me relate a story that I think is relevant. When I was a teenager in middle-school I hung around a lot of black dudes. There was this one guy, Demetrius who I became friends with. He always tended to make cracks on me around the other guys but be cool when it was just the two of us. I weathered the bad for his friendship. I thought he was a smart and cool guy. A little cruel, yes. But we liked similar things. Well, my first week of high-school, new people new surroundings, I saw him at lunch and approached him in a friendly way. "Get away from me, weak b----." I tried hanging out with him consecutive days to the same sort of treatment. He didn't want to be seen with me---a white, unpopular, no-status freshman. Our friendship dissolved. I just let it go.

 

About 10 years later, I received a message through my Myspace account(ha!). I was in my early twenties and living in NYC as a struggling actor. It was Demetrius. He'd found me and wanted to know what I was doing. I told him a little about my life. What he said to me I'll never forget, he said "My wife is divorcing me, I'm completely lost." Just out of the blue. I tried to offer him some words of encouragement. He wanted to know what it was like living in NYC. We exchanged a few more e-mails and that was the last I heard of him.

 

The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

 

I'm not saying your ex will contact you 10 years from now. But trust me, one day she will fall. And when she hits the bottom, she's going to remember all the people that once cared about her and she's going to remember all the people she s*&^ on to get to where she is. Brother, your name is going to be on the top of the list.

[Niko 2021]

All I can say is, thank god you didn't put a ring on someone like that.

 

I am so sorry for your pain. I can't imagine what that would be like after the time and energy invested, the growth you experienced while with her, the memories...

 

But, for the long term. Just imagine how much more you would have suffered, had you enmeshed your life with her even further. For many more years.

 

I spent way too much time in a dead relationship once (4 years), and the one thing I took home from it (besides myself and the clothes on my back... yep... that was it!) was that I know absolutely never what to do again.

 

Logically understanding things like that won't help the pain--though time, healthy emotional outlets and compassion for yourself will help. Just be grateful someone that cold and invalidating will not be your life partner. No one deserves to be treated like that.

You're correct. I stayed in the relationship after it died for about a year. It was all on me. She gave me crumbs. She said she loved me, that she wants us to work, that we have a future if we tried, that she'll get mental help for us. All while she was cheating. Yeah it could've been worse, we could've been married, had kids, had a house and other assets. But this is damn near close to being the worst. I was once the "alpha male" in the relationship. After she cheated, she no longer saw me as that. That's why for a year after that, I lost all my pride and just tried my best keep someone who probably no longer wanted me. I was just her last choice at the time.

[Niko 2021]

Niko, none of us on this forum is able to diagnose your exGF because that would require a determination of whether her traits are so severe and persistent that she "has full blown BPD." There is a world of difference, however, between diagnosing a disorder and simply spotting strong warning signs of it.

 

Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. Likewise, you could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without knowing whether they had full-blown Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD.

 

Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits whenever they occur in a woman you've been dating for five years. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to avoid seeing the strong BPD traits. There is nothing subtle about behavioral traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you).

 

Hence, if you conclude that your exGF exhibits most BPD warning signs at a strong level, you should not be apologetic or shy about saying "She exhibits strong BPD traits" or "She seems to be on the upper end of the BPD spectrum." It also is correct to say "I suspect she has BPD." NONE of those expressions indicate you are pretending to be able to render a diagnosis. The reason is that you are not claiming you have determined her traits to be so severe and persistent that they satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for "having BPD."

 

Significantly, if you look at posts in the popular medical forums, you will find a thousand members describing their medical symptoms all day long -- and nobody attacks them for "trying to self diagnose" or for being "armchair doctors." They all know the difference between diagnosing and spotting symptoms. They all understand that, by learning to spot the symptoms, they are far more likely to seek professional help when they have a serious disease -- and are more likely to seek that help sooner, when the doctors still have time to fix it. Of course, when they do decide to seek help, the very first thing the doctor will ask is "What symptoms have you been seeing?"

 

No, STH and Sycamore have provided you with far more insights than the term "emotional immaturity" implies. Generally, our society uses that term to describe an 19-year-old behaving like he is only 16. Yet, when Sycamore suggested "emotional immaturity" as a likely explanation for your exGF's BPD-like traits, he was not talking about a 25-year-old woman behaving like she is 21.

 

Rather, Sycamore was talking about a woman who experienced such neglect or abuse in childhood that her emotional development froze when she was only 3 or 4 years old. This is what happens to people exhibiting strong BPD traits. Because they have the emotional maturity of a four-year-old, they never learned the emotional coping skills the rest of us learned in childhood. They therefore are fully dependent on the primitive ego defenses that are available to very young children. These skills include denial (lying), projection, black-white thinking (splitting), and magical thinking.

 

There are many emotional skills that the BPDers never learned: how to do self soothing and manage one's own emotions; how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating ambiguities and mixed feelings; how to love in a mature way; how to trust others; and how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts." I mention all this to explain why, if you start thinking of your exGF as a woman behaving like a four-year-old, you likely will start understanding why so many of her selfish, childish behaviors occurred.

 

The behaviors you describe are exactly what should be expected from a woman exhibiting strong traits of a "Cluster B" personality disorder. I therefore agree with STH, Sycamore, and you that you seem to be describing classic warning signs for ASPD (Sociopathy), NPD (Narcissistic PD), and -- perhaps to a lesser extent -- BPD.

 

Such a combination would not be unusual because most people suffering from one PD also have one or two others as well. For example, 40% of female narcissists -- and about 30% of female sociopaths -- also have co-occurring BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

I remain skeptical about the BPD warning signs for several reasons. One is that emotional instability is the key feature for BPD and it is unclear in your posts whether your exGF actually exhibited strong instability. You made some vague references to "lots of fighting" but never said that you've seen rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing every few weeks. Granted, your statement that you suspect "bipolar disorder" clearly indicates that you believe she is unstable. I'm only saying, then, that you've given few examples of unstable behavior occurring (or perhaps you did but I've forgotten them).

 

Another reason for skepticism is that, whereas BPDers are capable of intense (albeit immature) love like young children, you conclude that your exGF never loved you and is incapable of loving anyone -- a key characteristic of narcissists and sociopaths, not BPDers. A third reason is that, whereas BPDers are incapable of trusting you and thus have a great fear of abandonment, you don't describe her as having such a fear. You don't describe any situation, for example, where she exhibited irrational jealousy -- which would suggest a strong fear of abandonment. Moreover, you don't describe her as being clingy but, rather, as being fiercely independent.

 

Finally, a fourth reason is that, whereas BPDers typically lack impulse control, your GF is described as coolly calculating and manipulative -- something that would be very difficult to do if she were highly reactive (as BPDers are) to whatever event is occurring that very moment. That said, I nonetheless would agree that, if you really did see both strong instability and impulsiveness, then the BPD warning signs likely are as strong as those for ASPD and NPD.

Thanks for your reply. I never knew someone could be fully functional and still have the emotional capacity of a 4 year old. Maybe it explains how she can never feel (which she said all the time), how she can't sympathize when even her family members die. Yes, she was fiercely independent, but in the beginning of the relationship she was super clingy. I mentioned how she said she loved me a few weeks after meeting me, didn't' even see my face yet. She came on very strong, I was immature, but amazed how at the time someone could fall in love with me so quickly (I should've known better). I mentioned to sycamore how she dropped down to the ground and wrapped her arms and legs around my leg and started crying when I wanted out of the relationship. I mentioned how she would cry at night because she didn't grow up with her dad, how she never had her dad go to her recitals, or graduation, or anything like that. So yeah, she does have abandonment issues to me. I remember a few years ago, when her dad got remarried, she said she wouldn't attend the wedding "just to drive the knife a little deeper into him" Metaphorically speaking, she wanted to get back at him. I can't believe I'm remembering all of this. This is really making me doubt we had a relationship to begin with. Regardless, she has emotional issues, I don't know if I need to pinpoint what exactly at this point. I tried that a year ago, when I tried to get her to go to the doctor. She said she will for us, but never followed through. I stopped bringing it up because she would lash out at me for doing so.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Niko 2021

[Niko 2021]

Brother, it is exactly the same with me. I want the person I started the relationship with, not the incarnation I was left with in the end.

 

Yes, mornings were the worst. There's that split second between waking and cognizance where you think it's all a bad dream. Then reality settles.

 

I promise it will get better. When time and new events, new people begin to unfold between that terrible end and the continuation of your life, the pain will start to fade.

 

Yes, why wouldn't a person want an honest, noble end to a 5 year investment of time, emotion and money? Why?

 

Let me relate a story that I think is relevant. When I was a teenager in middle-school I hung around a lot of black dudes. There was this one guy, Demetrius who I became friends with. He always tended to make cracks on me around the other guys but be cool when it was just the two of us. I weathered the bad for his friendship. I thought he was a smart and cool guy. A little cruel, yes. But we liked similar things. Well, my first week of high-school, new people new surroundings, I saw him at lunch and approached him in a friendly way. "Get away from me, weak b----." I tried hanging out with him consecutive days to the same sort of treatment. He didn't want to be seen with me---a white, unpopular, no-status freshman. Our friendship dissolved. I just let it go.

 

About 10 years later, I received a message through my Myspace account(ha!). I was in my early twenties and living in NYC as a struggling actor. It was Demetrius. He'd found me and wanted to know what I was doing. I told him a little about my life. What he said to me I'll never forget, he said "My wife is divorcing me, I'm completely lost." Just out of the blue. I tried to offer him some words of encouragement. He wanted to know what it was like living in NYC. We exchanged a few more e-mails and that was the last I heard of him.

 

The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

 

I'm not saying your ex will contact you 10 years from now. But trust me, one day she will fall. And when she hits the bottom, she's going to remember all the people that once cared about her and she's going to remember all the people she s*&^ on to get to where she is. Brother, your name is going to be on the top of the list.

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me over these few days. Your words really speak to me. I don't know if I should take comfort in the fact that I'll be on a pedestal a few years from now, but I guess it shows that it's not me. I wasn't great in the relationship, I was your average "guy." Tough, dominating, controlling, tried not to express too much emotion, but she knew I wanted to marry her. She knew I would've proposed immediate at our graduation (that was the plan), I just couldn't afford the ring. And good thing too, looking back now. I doubt if I was any better, it wouldn't have changed her mind about cheating. She would've taken any guy what seemed "better" than me. She always said how she's the girl that no one pays attention to, the girl that no one remembers her name, who she is, or even acknowledges her existence. And yes, that was true. I loved her anyway. Once someone came along that showed her a little attention, she quickly pursued him, and cheated on me. I know that's exactly what happened, because…5 years ago, i was that guy who pursued her. Things only make sense when I type them out on here and read everyones responses. But when I sleep, or am at work, it just falls apart.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Niko 2021

[SycamoreCircle]

Rather, Sycamore was talking about a woman who experienced such neglect or abuse in childhood that her emotional development froze when she was only 3 or 4 years old. This is what happens to people exhibiting strong BPD traits. Because they have the emotional maturity of a four-year-old, they never learned the emotional coping skills the rest of us learned in childhood. They therefore are fully dependent on the primitive ego defenses that are available to very young children. These skills include denial (lying), projection, black-white thinking (splitting), and magical thinking.

 

Whenever my ex related stories of her past they always seemed carefully edited and archived and she would often repeat them. One such story was of how for one of her birthdays, her father gave her nothing but a piece of wood. Some time later a cold draught was blowing through the house and her parents took away this piece of wood to construct some barrier to the wind.

 

Now, my ex told this in a joking way. But what I know of her inner life now along with a better understanding of her father and his emotional unavailability leads me to believe that this and other events in her life have made a tremendously damaging impact on her emotional development.

 

One of the last things she said to me when we were saying goodbye to each other was "I'm very good at compartmentalizing."

 

Compartmentalizing. That is a strong word. It explains to me why her past sounded archived. Because these sort of people carefully choose what events in their life make up their life.

 

Yes, I think events in your girlfriend's upbringing had some real and damaging effect on her development.

Edited October 30, 2014 by SycamoreCircle

[SycamoreCircle]

Was that her being vulnerable or her being narcissistic? You decide. Because saying "No one notices me" is the same as saying "I'm better than every one." Me Me Me.

 

Once you start to feel whole again, my challenge to you is to meet a woman who is NOT perfect and who is NOT perfectly worthless.

 

It sounds like you've identified some traits in yourself that you'd like to improve upon. Good for you! I believe you will work on them.

[Niko 2021]

Was that her being vulnerable or her being narcissistic? You decide. Because saying "No one notices me" is the same as saying "I'm better than every one." Me Me Me.

 

Once you start to feel whole again, my challenge to you is to meet a woman who is NOT perfect and who is NOT perfectly worthless.

 

It sounds like you've identified some traits in yourself that you'd like to improve upon. Good for you! I believe you will work on them.

Thank you, I'll try, in time. I was never good at dating, and now 5 years out of the game, it'll be a challenge. But, what is worrying me, I don't know if i've truly grieved over what happened. Yes I did when it initially happened, I do get random anger phases. But even though this betrayal is hurting me so much and feels like my heart is ripped apart, I have not truly expressed my emotions. I have not cried, or become overly emotional. I don't know if its necessary, but I don't want to have me completely break down in a few weeks or later on. Yeah I'm in pain, and though I feel ok right now, I'll feel horrible soon, but I am proud of myself of going a week of NC. I never thought I could ever do that.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Niko 2021

[SoThatHappened]

Regardless, she has emotional issues, I don't know if I need to pinpoint what exactly at this point. I tried that a year ago, when I tried to get her to go to the doctor.

You're exactly right. You don't need to know or pinpoint exactly what issues she has. She's likely not going to get herself diagnosed or helped anytime soon anyway.

 

At first when I found out about BPD and that my ex hit all but one characteristic (to a very high degree), it was an "AHA!" moment for me.

 

It's not my fault the relationship ended! it's because she's nuts, right?!

 

That helped me for a while, knowing I wasn't the reason (and I truly wasn't. I can't imagine a guy being better to a woman in any way without being a pushover/doormat). She was over-the-top in love with me! Then she was fooling around behind my back in less than 24 hours. Whatever "that" is, it's not normal.

 

I wanted to PROVE to her that it was her. I wanted to PROVE it to myself that it's what's wrong with HER that made the relationship fail.

 

Then... I just decided it didn't matter anymore. It did help that there was a disorder that could possibly explain her actions, but I decided it wasn't going to make a difference. As much as my heart hurt, I didn't need to prove it was this or it was that.

 

Her instability and immaturity (along with a host of other issues) were the reason we ended. I didn't need to put a label on it anymore. I knew why it ended.

 

It was freeing to say, "I don't care what 'it' is that's wrong with her." It was also somewhat liberating to know that her traits aren't normal, even if they weren't able to be diagnosed.

 

I will add that I truly believe she has BPD. It was nuts being with her. But, I don't need it to be BPD, narcissism, bi-polar, etc.

 

All I know is I dodged a bullet, and so have you. We're in an elite club. Can you imagine what would've happened if you'd gotten married to her and had children?

 

Being thankful that didn't happen has helped me move on, look at things logically, and knock her @ss off of that pedestal.

[SycamoreCircle]

If you think you have it bad, read justanaverageguy's story. I mean, there's a guy who got chewed up and spit out and he sounds like he's doing better than all of us.

Edited October 30, 2014 by SycamoreCircle

[changchewsoon]

Man, I am really sorry you are going through this, it sounds really brutal and the fact that you are able to keep your sanity and post your story here with us, it shows that you are a lot more tougher than some of the people I know.

 

After reading your story, here are my thoughts.

 

The reason why she felt so "connected" to that guy is because that guy ended things with her first, and people always want what they can't have.

 

And you were always there for her no matter what, you were here safety net so she put you on the back burner. The reliable guy she knows she can fall back on any time she needs.

 

Just think about it, imagine your role and that guy has been reversed. She was with that guy for 5 years, and you only just got to know her very recently.

 

She is going to be her usual self, come on top of you very strong in the beginning and then you guys are going to hook up like crazy.

 

Then, before anything happens, *bam* you dump her ass! She's going to do the same thing by confessing her love for you, turning on the waterworks and telling you that you were her best f**k because you were the one who got away!

 

Can see you that now? That guy probably knows what kind of girl she is, so he didn't stay for too long and when he thinks that he has enough he decided to move on.

 

You were probably right about her cheating on her bf when she was with you, she probably just didn't expect you to stick around for a much longer time compared to all the men she used to date.

 

So there you go, you my dear friend you have dodged a missile. Yes it hurts now, and it will probably go on for a short while. That's okay, you are tougher than you think, so you are going to heal and you are going to pick yourself up knowing you had not put a ring on a cheating b*tch and make her your wife.

 

Then you are going to start preparing yourself for the next girl that is coming into your life, and you better start doing so because when you looked back one day while holding the hand of your future girlfriend/wife, you know whatever that has just happened actually wasn't such a big deal at all because your ex would still be in the same cycle while you have elevated to a different stage of life.

 

So who has the last laugh now huh?

Edited October 30, 2014 by changchewsoon

[Niko 2021]

I know I dodged a bullet, but it's hard to actualize/realize it. She was my first serious long term girlfriend. I was/am a bit possessive of her.

[Niko 2021]

If you think you have it bad, read justanaverageguy's story. I mean, there's a guy who got chewed up and spit out and he sounds like he's doing better than all of us.

This is why it pains to much that she cheated…July 2013, I have a message saved (I know I shouldn't have gone back, you can stop reading if you'd like, but I really need to vent this) She was short on cash, we both just graduated, no jobs, but I had a little money. Sometimes when she couldn't afford food, I would order her delivery even though I was in CA, she was across the country. This is after she told me not to come back, to wait till she gets better emotionally, and also while she was cheating. Here's the message word for word.

 

Her - Thank you baby, I really appreciate it.

Me- Just one thing, you haven't been cheating on me, flirting, or inviting guys to our apartment right?

Her- No baby I promise you. No guy but you and dad, and the maintenance guy if you count him, have been in this apartment. I wouldn't cheat on you and no I'm not flirting with anyone.

Me- Alright babe, enjoy your pizza.

Her - Mwah thank you again baby.

 

Now, it is beyond belief that someone can lie like that. Knowing the timeline, this was after she first cheated, and most likely he was probably there with her. Am I naive to think that even the worst possible human being in this world won't even lie so blatantly like that? I guess she was right, so has no damn conscience. And around that time, I have millions of examples saved of how lovingly she treated me. I'm such an idiot. Even while I was there a few weeks ago, a day before I found out she was cheating, we spent the whole day with her dad. Her dad really likes me, I've known the guy for 5 years, great guy. I even gave him a hug for the first time, all while she was standing by watching this, knowing she cheated on me. What a cold hearted B.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Niko 2021

[Niko 2021]

Man, I am really sorry you are going through this, it sounds really brutal and the fact that you are able to keep your sanity and post your story here with us, it shows that you are a lot more tougher than some of the people I know.

 

After reading your story, here are my thoughts.

 

The reason why she felt so "connected" to that guy is because that guy ended things with her first, and people always want what they can't have.

 

And you were always there for her no matter what, you were here safety net so she put you on the back burner. The reliable guy she knows she can fall back on any time she needs.

 

Just think about it, imagine your role and that guy has been reversed. She was with that guy for 5 years, and you only just got to know her very recently.

 

She is going to be her usual self, come on top of you very strong in the beginning and then you guys are going to hook up like crazy.

 

Then, before anything happens, *bam* you dump her ass! She's going to do the same thing by confessing her love for you, turning on the waterworks and telling you that you were her best f**k because you were the one who got away!

 

Can see you that now? That guy probably knows what kind of girl she is, so he didn't stay for too long and when he thinks that he has enough he decided to move on.

 

You were probably right about her cheating on her bf when she was with you, she probably just didn't expect you to stick around for a much longer time compared to all the men she used to date.

 

So there you go, you my dear friend you have dodged a missile. Yes it hurts now, and it will probably go on for a short while. That's okay, you are tougher than you think, so you are going to heal and you are going to pick yourself up knowing you had not put a ring on a cheating b*tch and make her your wife.

 

Then you are going to start preparing yourself for the next girl that is coming into your life, and you better start doing so because when you looked back one day while holding the hand of your future girlfriend/wife, you know whatever that has just happened actually wasn't such a big deal at all because your ex would still be in the same cycle while you have elevated to a different stage of life.

 

So who has the last laugh now huh?

I remember in her confession videos, her last one to him. After their months together as FWB, she obviously wanted a relationship, he didn't. In her video, she said how she felt betrayed that he got another girlfriend, and how in time that she wants to be friends with him…How the hell can she say that she felt betrayed…All the while we were still together. I don't understand this at all. She feels betrayed, while betraying me. THis hurts. I can't believe the person I was in love with could do that to me. All while stringing me along, all while telling me she was in love with me, while she was with another guy. I just can't even begin to comprehend how I should feel. Should I be mad she cheated? Or even more mad because she was so cold and heartless afterwards, or should I be even more mad that she hid it for over a year, while still wanting to be with me. I just don't know.

 

Yeah, she will never have a normal relationship, or a relationship that lasts at all. I dodged a bullet, yeah, but the pain is all consuming right now. She's like a damned black widow. Just going around playing guys and breaking hearts, making a mess of love. This is how all her relationships ended, I'm sure of it. Of her just cheating while having another on the back burner.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Niko 2021

[SycamoreCircle]

My advice to you for the future---if you have to ask "are you cheating on me?", it is not a healthy relationship.

 

If a girlfriend asked this of me, I would become furious. The fact that she acted casual about your asking that is suspicious behavior. Yes, you were foolish for being in a situation where you were asking such questions and believing her answers.

 

But OP, forgive me for saying so---it's almost starting to sound like YOU KNEW she was cheating, you didn't want to believe it. And now some of your venting seems directed at yourself. Am I right?

 

It sounds as though you had a hand in this. You enabled it, in a sense, by believing so whole-heartedly in her. If that's the case, you're going to have to accept PART, not all, PART of the blame and move on. Forgive yourself and move on.

 

Love, memories, time, commitment, expectations, emotional investment, intimacy---these ingredients combine with the physical world--- touch, smell, sound, taste to form a very potent cocktail, a hard-to-shake apothecary. You're coming off of your high.

[Niko 2021]

My advice to you for the future---if you have to ask "are you cheating on me?", it is not a healthy relationship.

 

If a girlfriend asked this of me, I would become furious. The fact that she acted casual about your asking that is suspicious behavior. Yes, you were foolish for being in a situation where you were asking such questions and believing her answers.

 

But OP, forgive me for saying so---it's almost starting to sound like YOU KNEW she was cheating, you didn't want to believe it. And now some of your venting seems directed at yourself. Am I right?

 

It sounds as though you had a hand in this. You enabled it, in a sense, by believing so whole-heartedly in her. If that's the case, you're going to have to accept PART, not all, PART of the blame and move on. Forgive yourself and move on.

 

Love, memories, time, commitment, expectations, emotional investment, intimacy---these ingredients combine with the physical world--- touch, smell, sound, taste to form a very potent cocktail, a hard-to-shake apothecary. You're coming off of your high.

You're 100% right. Maybe someone should've slapped me in the face, with a chair, because I had been suspicious immediately after I left on my vacation back home. She changed immediately, barely any contact, outward aggression towards me, and yeah I stayed. I trusted her, but I enabled her, I lost all my confidence when she stopped caring, and lost my backbone. Maybe that's a lesson learned, but I always found ways that would convince me she wasn't cheating. On my 4 trips there after I left, she paid half of the ticket fare, she must really love me. She saved a lot of money for us to do things, and planned things on our vacation, there's no way she could be cheating. She tells me how she's a "hermit that doesn't go outside or talk to anyone" and how she's working on getting herself better (no progress) and how still doesn't want to lose me, she's not cheating after all, it must be that i'm paranoid and untrusting of her. Yeah well, she cheated…And you're right, some of the blame has to be mine. I agree. I was in denial, and for gods sake I hope i'm still not. This relationship was never a healthy relationship looking back honestly. It was built on on both of us controlling each other, both of us making unnecessary compromises.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Niko 2021

[SycamoreCircle]

It's good that you're seeing these things. Let go of the illusion. You related that 7 months in she wrapped her arms around your legs whining "Don't leave me." Not healthy, major red flag.

 

If there was a lot of controlling and manipulation between the two of you, then maybe you can see where some of her coldness and aggression comes from. I'm not saying that it justifies her behavior---it's downright immature---but maybe you can start to understand where these emotions originate.

 

I want you to start envisioning a relationship where two people trust each other. There's no checking up. There's no suspicion. There's stewardship and sharing. There's giving and emotional openness. When one of the persons feels dissatisfied about something, they openly communicate that through talking about their feelings. Realizations and concessions are made. You enlighten to each others flaws. You find things to make each others lives healthier, easier and happier. And all along the way there is fun.

[lil hoodlum]

You're 100% right. Maybe someone should've slapped me in the face, with a chair, because I had been suspicious immediately after I left on my vacation back home. She changed immediately, barely any contact, outward aggression towards me, and yeah I stayed. I trusted her, but I enabled her, I lost all my confidence when she stopped caring, and lost my backbone. Maybe that's a lesson learned, but I always found ways that would convince me she wasn't cheating. On my 4 trips there after I left, she paid half of the ticket fare, she must really love me. She saved a lot of money for us to do things, and planned things on our vacation, there's no way she could be cheating. She tells me how she's a "hermit that doesn't go outside or talk to anyone" and how she's working on getting herself better (no progress) and how still doesn't want to lose me, she's not cheating after all, it must be that i'm paranoid and untrusting of her. Yeah well, she cheated…And you're right, some of the blame has to be mine. I agree. I was in denial, and for gods sake I hope i'm still not. This relationship was never a healthy relationship looking back honestly. It was built on on both of us controlling each other, both of us making unnecessary compromises.

 

 

Bull*****. Some of the blame for her cheating is not yours.

 

Like what, are you supposed to be a freakin' mindreader? Oh, she was so unhappy right? Funny she never said anything about her unhappiness, right?

[Niko 2021]

It's good that you're seeing these things. Let go of the illusion. You related that 7 months in she wrapped her arms around your legs whining "Don't leave me." Not healthy, major red flag.

 

If there was a lot of controlling and manipulation between the two of you, then maybe you can see where some of her coldness and aggression comes from. I'm not saying that it justifies her behavior---it's downright immature---but maybe you can start to understand where these emotions originate.

 

I want you to start envisioning a relationship where two people trust each other. There's no checking up. There's no suspicion. There's stewardship and sharing. There's giving and emotional openness. When one of the persons feels dissatisfied about something, they openly communicate that through talking about their feelings. Realizations and concessions are made. You enlighten to each others flaws. You find things to make each others lives healthier, easier and happier. And all along the way there is fun.

I can't honestly say I truly 100% ever trusted her. On the first time we physically met, 4 months after we met online. We had a great time, but I remember…punching her dresser, because she had an ex boyfriend call her, and she answered. Man I can't believe I'm remembering this. I guess the only thing I can do is take solace in the fact that what if I never opened my old laptop. The wifi was working fine for my macbook all weekend, and then the last day it didn't want to connect, it seems a little odd. If I had never found out she cheated, would I have been happy now? Hell no, I have been depressed for over a year for the way that she has treated me. Would I still want to be with her? I'd drop everything and everyone in a heartbeat to move back. Would it change the fact that she cheated on me? No, I may have never found out, or worse, found out after I moved. Even if I moved back, never found out she cheated, would I be happy? I don't think so. It's amazing how I can only see this when I type. Yeah, I'm hurt, i'm devastated, this is the worst time in my life, but I guess only up from here. Yeah I'm going to still have depressed stages, I will regress at least once a day and break down, but I'm ready to do better.

[Niko 2021]

Bull*****. Some of the blame for her cheating is not yours.

 

Like what, are you supposed to be a freakin' mindreader? Oh, she was so unhappy right? Funny she never said anything about her unhappiness, right?

She's to blame to cheating, there's no justification for it, no matter what. She should've just left, said she didn't want me, or said there was someone else, whatever it is. But I should've left after she started treating me like crap. That's what I should blame myself for. I let her toy with my emotions, and string me along for over a year just lusting over the thought of the day I could finally see her again. That's all on me. I should've been stronger, but she broke me down. I can't still cope with the fact that someone has been intimate with my once future wife…It rips me apart. I really hope no one else has to go through what I did. I'm sure there are worse stories, and yeah infidelity is everywhere. But man, the way she treated me after I caught her, that's going to leave a mark forever.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Niko 2021

[SycamoreCircle]

My point in saying that you are partly responsible is(and I think you understand), if I think I'm dealing with a crook and I continue to give the crook my money, I can't totally blame him when he runs off with my money. Should I expect a crook to be honest and tell me he's a crook?