My boyfriend is married.

[MuddyRock]

He works 20 hour days, spends his one day off with his mistess, and chooses to not sleep in the same room as his wife. I can't figure out why she would give up and be depressed. He sounds like a real catch.

[Lurkeraspect]

He manages to find plenty time with his kids in there somewhere, because pictures of this are on his facebook quite often. The kids appear pretty happy...but there is rarely, if ever, "family" pics that include both of them. I don't know when or how exactly, but its obvious that he and the kids are close, without me even having to ask about it. There has been pics of him teaching them how to ride bikes, going fishing together, swimming together, etc., no I'm not sure when/how he finds time for it all exactly, but its clear that he does as much as he can. He mostly works out of the home on weekends only, which is also when I see him, and the only time his kids don't see him. I also know he spends all of his Sundays with them, as well. But I'm assuming he gets more time with them in summer when there is no school, of course.

 

Please don't dwell on that fact as proof positive that MM has a horrible home life. I was married for decades and there were hardly any photos of all of us together, though we were always together. The reason she's not in the pics is probably because she's taking the picture. With 24 hours in a day and him working 20 of those, he cannot possibly have any quality time with his family. It's just not mathematically possible. Perhaps he's not quite as truthful to you as you'd like to believe. Just a thought.

[Quiet Storm]

This MM sounds like the typical passive aggressive MM that has resentment and feels neglected by his wife. He has all this pent up anger for perceived and/or legitimate grievances but instead of working on those issues, managing his household, asking for marriage counseling... he just complains about her and cheats on her. What you don't realize is that his affair is all about him & her, and not about you & him. He's punishing her and you are his tool to do that.

 

It sounds like you don't mind being used in this sick dysfunctional dance with his wife. Since he makes you feel better than any other guy, it seems like you are willing to accommodate anything. Your thought process towards him is "I will be the perfect OW. No demands. No expectations. I'm here and available for you and I will participate in this as long as possible because you are so awesome I can never find anyone better. I will respect you and believe you forever even though you lie and cheat." Do you expect your loyalty, devotion and blind trust to be appreciated and rewarded, instead of taken advantage of?

 

I think it's sad that you don't want more for yourself, that you are content and fulfilled with having a MM on Saturday nights. Do you really feel that hopeless about your ability to find someone that is available for a committed relationship? Is attention and romance so valuable to you that his agenda, or character traits don't matter?

 

In my opinion, you are twisting the circumstances and minimizing truth because you know deep down this isn't right. This is a common coping mechanism that people use when we really want to do something we know is wrong (it could either be morally wrong, as in you shouldn't participate in an affair, or wrong in the sense that you are letting yourself down by accepting so little). So in order to get around those "this isn't right" feelings that nag at you, your subconscious has to make this affair "OK". Which explains perfectly why you still have respect for him, think he is such a great guy, is trapped because he loves his kids, is neglected, etc. You NEED to feel that way- otherwise you can't justify this. You know you SHOULD feel that you deserve better than a cheater/liar... but you just can't make yourself feel you deserve more. You are happy with just this and the attention feels too good to give up.

 

So your mind falls into cognitive dissonance, and everything negative about his character gets explained away by the circumstances. This is OW's biggest mistake- I see it time & time again on here- you are blaming MM's dishonest & sneaky behavior on the circumstances, and not seeing it as part of his true character. Your are in the fog of feelings and high on your emotions, but it's going to really suck when you realize his actions are a reflection of his character and not his circumstances. Prepare yourself for not just him staying married, but for him to abandon you, talk bad about you, say mean things to you, etc. So I wouldn't be so quick to say you'll respect him forever, as many OW say & feel the same you and end up shocked and heartbroken when MM shows his true colors.

 

You take what he says at face value, but please consider that his wife's behavior may be a reaction to years of dealing with a liar, a cheater, a workaholic. Maybe she's depressed and that's why the house is a mess. He is not ONLY this way because of her and their situation. They are swimming in dysfunction and you are happy to jump right in. A marriage doesn't get like that and stay like that because of one person- they both contribute and both have serious character or emotional issues that you should seriously stay away from.

 

This is not a loving, hardworking, trapped and neglected perfect husband. This is a guy that avoids conflict, that punishes, that's passive aggressive, that lies, that cheats, etc. He has honest options where he can retain his integrity, but cheating & lying is how he choose to solve his problem. In his mind, cheating is better than honesty, and that's a character issue. Don't gloss over this. I can tell you believe him wholeheartedly, and justify his actions without question. I am not a betrayed wife so I have no agenda, except that I see a whole lot of heartache coming your way. I see the typical married workaholic resentful guy that is using you for entertainment and to punish his wife. Maybe something I said will ring true over the course of this affair and you will realize that he has an agenda for you, too. And that this guy isn't a great friend to be respected and admired, but a messed up guy that has the potential to really hurt you emotionally.

[MuddyRock]

So he only posts pictures on facebook of him with his kid, never all together.

 

You realize that is because SHE is the one holding the camara right?

 

Unfortunately that is a common problem with small families. Someone always gets left out of the picture because they have to hold the camara. I would say the amount of pictures I have of me my spouse and my child together are about as rare as river dolphins. That means nothing.

[LilySun]

Please don't dwell on that fact as proof positive that MM has a horrible home life. I was married for decades and there were hardly any photos of all of us together, though we were always together. The reason she's not in the pics is probably because she's taking the picture. With 24 hours in a day and him working 20 of those, he cannot possibly have any quality time with his family. It's just not mathematically possible. Perhaps he's not quite as truthful to you as you'd like to believe. Just a thought.

 

They do get some time together as a family, somehow, this is obvious, its clear he does stay involved with him as much as possible, but their relationship by itself is absent. I know they fight alot but I'm sure when it comes to family time they keep it as civil as they can. Or maybe they argue in front of the kids the whole time...I don't know and don't care. But its clear that he does put time into his kids, maybe not into her, but with them.

[MuddyRock]

He manages to find plenty time with his kids in there somewhere, because pictures of this are on his facebook quite often. The kids appear pretty happy...but there is rarely, if ever, "family" pics that include both of them. I don't know when or how exactly, but its obvious that he and the kids are close, without me even having to ask about it. There has been pics of him teaching them how to ride bikes, going fishing together, swimming together, etc., no I'm not sure when/how he finds time for it all exactly, but its clear that he does as much as he can. He mostly works out of the home on weekends only, which is also when I see him, and the only time his kids don't see him. I also know he spends all of his Sundays with them, as well. But I'm assuming he gets more time with them in summer when there is no school, of course.

 

 

This is really all starting to make sense. It sounds like he is actually quite present in his marriage and you my friend are the one being lied to the most. The evidence is everywhere.

I challenge you to tell his wife and see what happens to you. Afterall she told him she doesn't care.

[Sub]

So he only posts pictures on facebook of him with his kid, never all together.

 

You realize that is because SHE is the one holding the camara right?

 

Unfortunately that is a common problem with small families. Someone always gets left out of the picture because they have to hold the camara. I would say the amount of pictures I have of me my spouse and my child together are about as rare as river dolphins. That means nothing.

 

My god, this is dead on.

[ComingInHot]

He doesn't really. He is affectionate with me in front of his friends, even. And they know he is married. He has told her "I was out with LilySun last night"... when he spends nights with me, his phone is always near. The only time she called looking for him, I heard the whole conversation, she didn't even care that he was gone all night, she was just asking him for money. She doesn't give a crap what he's doing. But she doesn't want him to leave, either. I guess because she doesn't want to work, I don"t know.

 

well it sure is a good thing you two aren't bad mouthing her... cause that would just make you Both look bad. Ya know, cheating and all.

 

Have you told him to tell HIS WIFE that they are now in an Open Marriage?

Heck OP, then you could go into His Wife's house and help her clean it LOL* (UUm that last part about cleaning was joke *)

[LilySun]

I need tons of space. Have never been a person that wants to see people I Date daily. I get tired of people easily, unfortunately. If he were mine full time, I would likely get sick of him too. Sometimes I think the only reason I'm happy IS because he is married, will stay married, and I will never have to commit to him much more. I have always lived alone and like my space, so I have never done well with men that want to be with me constantly. Or need me to be a perfect girlfriend. No I have no expectations from him, nor does he from me, so we just like the whole stress-free part of it all. Call it insane, but to me and him this is a perfect world. If we were together for real, who knows, we might hate eachother as much as he and the wife do. Eventually this will end and we will still be friends and we will look back on it as quite a nice time. We were friends over 10 years ago, that will just never change. I don't even care about his marriage. He chose to tell me all these things on his own because we are friends. I am being very selfish and taking advantage of his situation and how he feels about me. So if anyone is the bad guy its me.

[MissBee]

Before judging me, well I don't really need advice as much as I just need to tell someone I am in love with a married guy, who is also my best friend, we have know eachother many years and our friendship has evolved into a relationship. And we are in love.

He has told me how much he cares about me and that he always has.

 

Years ago his wife got pregnant so their family pressured them into marrying. And he is very unhappy. He works very hard to support his family...she doesn't work and refuses to get a job...and their home is a gross mess because she is lazy and claims that she is too busy as a stay home mom. He took pictures of all the rooms in the house and I have never seen anything so gross. Every room in the house is disgusting to look at, including their bedroom, which he hasn't slept in in 6 years because she refuses to clean it up. He has set up his own space in the basement and sleeps there. It gets to the point where he has to end up cleaning because she doesn't, but even then he can only do so much because he spends a lot of time working.

 

He wants to leave her badly, but feels trapped because she won't work, and he doesn't want to abandon his kid. He finally told me how much he would love to move out and be with me, but can't bcause of her.

Yet here I am the happiest I have ever been with someone, and he says the same about me. Plus, we are best friends that would do anything for eachother. I am 38 years old, and I just now in the kind of relationship I have wanted my whole life. I have waited forever to be this happy, and I have had many relationships that were by far worse than loving a married guy.

 

People think it should be easy for me to end this and just find it somewhere else. No, not quite. Not all of us the perfect pretty picture of love....not all of us are that lucky. We just aren't. If I thought I could find happiness like this tomorrow, I would end it. But I know that isn't true. For some of us, the love of our lives turns out to be the least expected person in the least expected situation. I don't expect him to leave her for a very long time. And we have to hide our relationship from everyone. We both agreed this is not ideal, or even right, but we couldn't be happier.

 

In some situations, we just can't assume people like us are horrible, scum bag people. I have waited 38 years for true love, and I will not give it up. Thanks for listening.

 

You're not looking for advice as you said but just to defend your relationship, which I sort of understand.

 

At the same time though, I think it's contradictory to say this is the relationship you've always wanted while saying it's not ideal at the same time. You've always wanted to be in a secret affair with a man you love who can't be with you but has to live at home with his derelict wife?

 

I'm certainly not here to tell you to give it up. If you enjoy it and feel it fits what you want then okay, but I do think that sometimes when we feel the need to defend our relationship it's not always because of the scorn of others but our own insecurities about it. Likewise, having read here and been there myself and also having a good friend who is a years long OW, I think lots of time people get caught up rationalizing things to themselves and try to convince themselves they are happier than they really are...and it usually comes in the form of vehemently trying to defend your happiness even when no one is actually attacking it, instead of just being.

 

I definitely don't live in a cloud where I think relationships need to be "perfect" (I don't think most people believe in perfection) but I think "perfect" and "not complicated" are very different things and shouldn't be confused. I think I deserve a relationship that isn't unnecessarily complicated or a secret, that hasn't a thing to do with perfect though. I've never been in a perfect relationship and don't think that will ever happen, but there are certainly degrees of imperfection and complications that we can choose to opt out of if we want. The "no one is perfect" excuse has been used by people in all kinds of CRAZY dysfunctional scenarios where it's just this kind of salve that is said to defend the fact that their relationship is a mess. When you say nothing is perfect it seems to absolve people from any critical outlook or any acknowledgement that while nothing is indeed perfect there are definitely degrees of things and just because things aren't perfect doesn't mean ALL becomes acceptable or even desirable once you say "Well nothing's perfect..."

 

For me personally, love without the right circumstance is a hassle and I don't really believe that because I love someone I should have to put up with certain things. That's me. I was an OW, I loved him, to this day I think he was one of my best matches emotionally and how we connected BUT...even with all that I wouldn't have chosen to be with him forever in A or think this is the greatest life has to offer so I better stay instead of trying to find something else. I guess ultimately I don't believe in "one true love" so very much believe that if one person is giving me a situation that is full of drama or where we are hiding, I can find something else where I won't have that.But we all have to make choices about what we want to deal with. Maybe for you the feelings outweigh the logistical barriers and secrecy, whereas for some other people it wouldn't. At the end of the day, whether or not other people agree or disagree with your choice, you're the one who has to be sure you are being honest with yourself about things as you're the one living it.

Edited October 28, 2014 by MissBee

[MuddyRock]

When this is over you most likely will NOT be the friends forever that you think. If the wife finds out he is in an affair with you you will likely never see or hear from him again.

You may think back on it as fond, but he may very well be repulsed by the thought of you if his wife finds out. Often when the MM sees the despair an affair causes, they are literally sick by the thought of the OW.

 

Also the fact that you have been friends so long, might even be why his wife is acting the way she is. Married men that confide in female friends, talk to them all the time, ect, that IS an affair. Sex or not. So he has probably been pushing her away for a lot longer then you let on.

[MissBee]

I just read that you were abused in the past, which I am very sorry about. However, the whole nothing is perfect idea seems to be a common thing that women who are abused think where for them they are used to so much bad that their standards for what is good are very low or having what others would think are normal expectations for being treated well to them seem like some kind of fantasy or unreal thus "perfect" expectation.

 

Lots of OW have come here and some have revealed their history of abuse and then it all makes sense for some, where even when the MM isn't the greatest, why they love him so much as he seems worlds better than someone who hit or emotionally abused them. It's like an oasis in their minds compared to the dry deserts of their more overtly abusive situations. But really, when you've been abused it does affect your standards of what is good and acceptable and usually in healing from it women tend to move from one form of abuse to another, one which is often less obvious so seems like they hit the jackpot and in comparison to before is relatively great. I think your views of this relationship may be coming from a very skewed place where in some ways MM is "safe" and you don't have to be with him fully and can avoid the potential hurt you've experienced in other relationships, yet the irony is still that in some ways it's a major disservice to you to be in this position and going from abusive relationship to secret mistress, while it's not black and white, you can't help but see how the two could function as two sides of one coin.

[ComingInHot]

LilySun wrote; ". If we were together for real, who knows, we might hate eachother as much as he and the wife do.*"

 

Again with the Not Wife bashing... funny how to me it looks like what it is, bad mouthing HIS Wife.

Might try a comment without mentioning HIS Wife in your defense of why You Are doing what You're doing. It would give more credence because the reasons why he is doing shouldn't concern you as you are happy being a temp side piece.

Now that would have believable substance.

[Sub]

Have you told him to tell HIS WIFE that they are now in an Open Marriage?

What are the chances that they already have an open arrangement, and the MM isn't telling the OP for fear that she won't feel as "special" anymore?

[Mr. Lucky]

I am being very selfish and taking advantage of his situation and how he feels about me. So if anyone is the bad guy its me.

I'd gently remind you that you're taking advantage of his family's situation, more involved than just him. And while it may fit your "selfish" (your word) needs, it's at their expense. Not the best karma.

 

If you don't mind, how old are you two?

 

Mr. Lucky

[MissBee]

I need tons of space. Have never been a person that wants to see people I Date daily. I get tired of people easily, unfortunately. If he were mine full time, I would likely get sick of him too. Sometimes I think the only reason I'm happy IS because he is married, will stay married, and I will never have to commit to him much more. I have always lived alone and like my space, so I have never done well with men that want to be with me constantly. Or need me to be a perfect girlfriend. No I have no expectations from him, nor does he from me, so we just like the whole stress-free part of it all. Call it insane, but to me and him this is a perfect world. If we were together for real, who knows, we might hate eachother as much as he and the wife do. Eventually this will end and we will still be friends and we will look back on it as quite a nice time. We were friends over 10 years ago, that will just never change. I don't even care about his marriage. He chose to tell me all these things on his own because we are friends. I am being very selfish and taking advantage of his situation and how he feels about me. So if anyone is the bad guy its me.

 

This makes sense.

 

Some people get offended by the notion of "fantasy" but this is perfectly it. Where for some the affair can be a "perfect world" where you live in a bubble without the cares of what a "real" relationship entails. You enjoy the romance part of it which is the fun part of ALL relationships but not the work part, the conflict part, the disagreements, the stuff to work through, the responsibility etc. So at least you admit that much.

 

As for if your friendship will never change...don't be so sure. I'm not saying it to be mean but just reality: relationships often ruin friendships, especially affair relationships. Most times after dating people can no longer be friends. It's often a bridge that cannot be uncrossed once you go over it. Many people cannot go from friend to bf-gf to friends again. And worse, friend to affair partner to friends again. It's a secret now, but you don't know how he will behave if his wife finds out and for some OW 20 years of friendship goes down the drain because the MM goes into NC or throws them under the bus once discovered...and yes they too proclaimed "forever friendship" until it was not forever.

[Davey L]

Lilysun, I don think you are a bad person, or that you are "scum" as you put it, or that your situation is easy. I'm not trying to judge you. I'm really in no position to criticise you as I have also had an affair.

 

However I do think you should open your eyes a bit and accept that your married man might be distorting the truth a bit - or even a lot.

 

I commented here originally because I just hate to hear a man criticising his wife or a wife complaining about her husband, especially to an affair partner.

 

When my wife had her affair the most hurtful part of it was the badmouthing me to everybody that would listen and having my every character flaw, real or imagined, discussed with her OM. This affected me so much that I would never ever discuss any donestic personal matter between us with anyone else. And I certainly never had a bad word to say about my wife to my OW. Even though i was cheating I felt I owed her that level of respect at least.

 

So I urge you to carefully and objectively consider the character of this man, and whether he is being truly truthful and honest with you, and whether in reality he's abandoning a depressed wife to try to manage the children on her own and trying, but failing, to keep on top of the housework in an impossible situation while he goes out to enjoy himself with you.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Davey L
Typos fixed

[jellybean89]

But he does clean up...he is the only one who does, and works full time too, matter of fact he works 12-20 hour days, so there is only so much cleaning he can do. While he works she lets everything go, to the point where he can't keep up with it all. I didn't say I respect him for cheating, I respect him as my friend and as a hard working dad that doesn't want to leave his kid. He was a friend of mine 10 years before all this, and when friends go through a tough time, I don't judge them, I am here to listen, and he is no exception to that rule.That will never change, if he stays married or not. He doesn't try to promise me we will be together someday or any of that mumbo jumbo, if I told him we have to end our fling, he would totally respect that and we'd still be friends. He knows I'm not in this just to wait around for him...I'm in it because I love what we have and that's it...I'm aware its probably temporary, or maybe not, who knows...

 

Everyone judges people...just like you are judging his wife. We all judge every day!! Doesn't make people bad, just makes us human. I get so sick of the "don't judge" crud. It's so ridiculous.

 

FYI - he is not your boyfriend. He is a married man. He is your lover.

 

He doesn't really. He is affectionate with me in front of his friends, even. And they know he is married. He has told her "I was out with LilySun last night"... when he spends nights with me, his phone is always near. The only time she called looking for him, I heard the whole conversation, she didn't even care that he was gone all night, she was just asking him for money. She doesn't give a crap what he's doing. But she doesn't want him to leave, either. I guess because she doesn't want to work, I don"t know.

 

So he wants HER to get fed up and leave? Coward. How many kids have they had? Did family force them to have more?

 

So he spends the night with you, instead of at home with his kids? Nice. Must be awesome to be him...to be able to have kid free time 12-20 "working hours a day" plus the time he spends with his mistress.

 

He manages to find plenty time with his kids in there somewhere, because pictures of this are on his facebook quite often. The kids appear pretty happy...but there is rarely, if ever, "family" pics that include both of them. I don't know when or how exactly, but its obvious that he and the kids are close, without me even having to ask about it. There has been pics of him teaching them how to ride bikes, going fishing together, swimming together, etc., no I'm not sure when/how he finds time for it all exactly, but its clear that he does as much as he can. He mostly works out of the home on weekends only, which is also when I see him, and the only time his kids don't see him. I also know he spends all of his Sundays with them, as well. But I'm assuming he gets more time with them in summer when there is no school, of course.

 

So he works from home 12-20 hours a day? Guess what! His wife works from home 24 hours a day! You were not there when they CHOSE to have kids. Child care is incredibly expensive, maybe they chose to have her stay home? And to continue to say she is "too lazy" to work is a slap in the face of every stay at home mom. Do you know how hard and time consuming it is to raise children? You don't just stick them in front of a TV all day. Yet according to you, she is too lazy to work? Do you think he should get a medal for spending time on Sundays with his kids????? He is a PARENT, that's what he is supposed to do!!!!

[hello234]

I am curious OP, you say you couldn't be happier.. But how do you tolerate the fact that he expresses his love to you, yet goes home every night to her, and makes love and sleeps with another woman? DOes this not bother you?

How do u manage to be happy in such a relation where you know you will NEVER be the only woman for him, and definitely not the main woman? Are you happy living in his shadows ,as his secret?

 

No really, I want to know how you have found acceptance for this and still manage to be happy...

[herself]

Im so mad. Does his wife go to his work and judge his job?

Maybe she has postpartum depression.

Either way he LIVES in that filth...marriage is 50/50.

With these kind of problems with young ones living in an unfit home and a wife who may be depressed or have her partner help her....what is he doing with you?

Im upset your judging her and allowing him to belittle his own wife.

If my xap did that it would have been a deal breaker.

What a prince charming. Ugghhhh

[whichwayisup]

Im so mad. Does his wife go to his work and judge his job?

Maybe she has postpartum depression.

Either way he LIVES in that filth...marriage is 50/50.

With these kind of problems with young ones living in an unfit home and a wife who may be depressed or have her partner help her....what is he doing with you?

Im upset your judging her and allowing him to belittle his own wife.

If my xap did that it would have been a deal breaker.

What a prince charming. Ugghhhh

 

Exactly. And if his wife is having trouble staying on top the mess, then he should hire a cleaning lady to come once a week.

 

Hmm, ever think who is taking the pictures of his kids? Since she's not in them and he's in them with the kids, who do you think is holding the camera?

 

If he wanted to divorce, he would. He has two women meeting all this needs so why would give up one when he can have two. OP, think about that.

[Steen719]

UGH! If I had the time, I would tell you all of the lies my XH told his OW. Yep, I read them in black and white. Outrageous lies about how I treated him, what I done to him, etc. I just could not freaking believe it. He even told lies about other things that did not matter - he was paying for my son's college so he didn't have to take loans - NOT SO and I am the one who worked 2 jobs for the last 3 years to get him through with loans, too. I did have a chance later to tell the OW how he lied to her. I didn't actually care if she thought I was what he said, but I sure wanted her to know what he was - a stupid, unfaithful liar. Yuck! She could have him. I left his sorry a** and she stayed with her H.

 

Whatever makes you stay with a MM who is this situation is not healthy or good for your self esteem. I think you should see a counselor about why you would put up with this type of relationship or even want this kind of relationship (as you continue to say) and for goodness sake, take off those rose colored glasses. Plan a good future for yourself that is not with a MM who would behave as he does. Who wants a cheater for a mate? Look at his character, really look at it.

 

Good luck.

[beach]

They do get some time together as a family, somehow, this is obvious, its clear he does stay involved with him as much as possible, but their relationship by itself is absent. I know they fight alot but I'm sure when it comes to family time they keep it as civil as they can. Or maybe they argue in front of the kids the whole time...I don't know and don't care. But its clear that he does put time into his kids, maybe not into her, but with them.

 

Would you fight with your husband if he were working 20 hours a day, complaining when he's home and going out dancing with his OW on Saturday nights? Would you - if you were his wife?

 

Be careful dear, that might be you someday if you get your "prize".

[SunshineToday]

 

He has told another friend of ours that he doesn't sleep in that room, also. He has his own space set up downstairs, where is also where he sleeps, and works (if working from home, he works out of the home as well). He puts pics of this on Facebook, even. The whole world knows he lives and works in the basement of his house. Its no secret lie designed to make his wife look bad, its just always been that way. And its how he stays separated from her.

 

Show of hands here. How many of us have been involved in an Affair where the other person claims to be "living in the basement" or "sleeping on the couch"?

 

::::::raises hand.

 

It's the most common lie I see fed to OW on this forum. Don't believe this.

[LifesontheUp]

I remember finding out my xH who was having an affair told his gf I was controlling, never did anything around the house etc etc. Guess what she found out it was actually him that he was describing.

 

You see they tell you all sorts of cr@p to get your sympathy and to get in your bed

 

He's still married and if I were you I would avoid him like the plague until he is divorced. But my bet is he'll still be married in 5 yrs time and telling some female his woe is me spiel.