Never Trust An Addict - True or False?

[Divasu]

Oh... I was referring to her specific plan if/when she started using again = relapse.

 

There's usually a plan outlining what is to take place if/when it happens... An agreement the user makes when/while they are more clear minded = discharging from inpatient care.

 

A plan of sorts that's set up ahead of time "just in case".

 

So did another scan, no actual "relapse instructions" outlined.

 

And I see so many contradictions in your last paragraph! I don't even know what to say! The idea if rehab is to get a person sober (unaltered).

 

Which paragraph?

Edited November 5, 2014 by Divasu

[beach]

So did another scan, no actual "relapse instructions" outlined.

 

 

 

Which paragraph?

 

Darn - I wish she had written out her plan for what would happen if needed.

 

 

That last paragraph that shows "initial recovery plan" but then refers to medicine she is to take. Then is simply marked confidential when the user is supposed to be working a program of honesty. Nothing mapping out if she were to attend meetings and/or certain ones and times she committed to, nothing about getting a sponsor etc. :-(

[Divasu]

Darn - I wish she had written out her plan for what would happen if needed.

 

 

That last paragraph that shows "initial recovery plan" but then refers to medicine she is to take. Then is simply marked confidential when the user is supposed to be working a program of honesty. Nothing mapping out if she were to attend meetings and/or certain ones and times she committed to, nothing about getting a sponsor etc. :-(

 

Hi Beach. Sorry I did not respond to this sooner, I kind of needed a "mental break" from it for a bit.

 

To clarify, she did write out a list of goals, which I can in fact see (when I said "confidential", I was merely respecting her rights that that information is private as opposed to posting it on here).

 

I can tell you that she did not get a sponsor after she was discharged from detox/rehab, but, she was in ongoing outpatient therapy the entire time after she was discharged and up until this very day. So, I know she is very capable of "doing the work", but, I guess somewhere along the way she lost her footing.

 

I want to personally thank you for the time you've devoted to this thread. While I don't know you personally, I am proud of all your accomplishments and you (all of the people who have responded too) have been a great source of support.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Divasu

[beach]

Awww - I'm glad I could be helpful ;-)

 

And now it's time for you to state your boundaries. What do you plan (specifically) to DO to take care of you/yourself moving forward?

 

Do you have creative outlets? Are you prepared to tell her she's not moving back in with you? Are you ready to tell her that her recovery is HER responsibility that she must manage (and you will cheer her progress on from the sidelines)?

 

What is YOUR plan now that the chaos has subsided for the time being?

[Divasu]

Awww - I'm glad I could be helpful ;-)

 

And now it's time for you to state your boundaries. What do you plan (specifically) to DO to take care of you/yourself moving forward?

 

Do you have creative outlets? Are you prepared to tell her she's not moving back in with you? Are you ready to tell her that her recovery is HER responsibility that she must manage (and you will cheer her progress on from the sidelines)?

 

What is YOUR plan now that the chaos has subsided for the time being?

 

You have very much been so.

 

What do you plan (specifically) to DO to take care of you/yourself moving forward? Do you have creative outlets?

 

I am now working with a therapist to help me cope and manage my stress. In between, I spend time with friends, run my own business, participate in issues that are important (I have/continue to do volunteer work). I've done lots of things like acting classes, dance classes, etc., and will continue to pursue those things. I've maintained being a Pescetarian so I no longer eat red meat, pork, etc.

 

Are you prepared to tell her she's not moving back in with you? Are you ready to tell her that her recovery is HER responsibility that she must manage (and you will cheer her progress on from the sidelines)?

 

I've essentially told her that there will be no Xanax under our family's involvement and her choices are, get help, leave, or we will get the authorities involved. She appears to be taking baby steps towards seeking additional professional help to address the relapse. I've made a deadline in my mind for her to make appointments on her own and get in to see an Addiction Psychiatrist (which the inpatient facility recommended at this point).

 

What is YOUR plan now that the chaos has subsided for the time being?

 

To focus on myself and relax.

[beach]

Does this indicate she is still living with you now?

[Divasu]

Does this indicate she is still living with you now?

 

Yes. But the goal is, she won't come early next year.

 

She can either go to live with her son across the country, or, she will be in a senior housing type setting. It's really up to her where she wants to go, but, it can't be with me that's for sure.

[beach]

So you say there will be no Xanax under your involvement but she's still there and still taking the Xanax?

[Divasu]

So you say there will be no Xanax under your involvement but she's still there and still taking the Xanax?

 

She relapsed under my involvement, yes. After a period of not being on Xanax for 2.5 years.

 

Maybe with the taper of Klonopin prior to that, and, her knowing she is going to be leaving my "care" in the next few months, sent her over the edge. Who knows.

 

I can only handle/manage the here and now, right now, and moving forward.

 

Does that make sense?

[beach]

She relapsed under my involvement, yes. After a period of not being on Xanax for 2.5 years.

 

Maybe with the taper of Klonopin prior to that, and, her knowing she is going to be leaving my "care" in the next few months, sent her over the edge. Who knows.

 

I can only handle/manage the here and now, right now, and moving forward.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Honey, I asked a question and you seemed to take responsibility for her "relapse under your involvement".

 

My suggestion is have her leave TODAY!!! Detox now!

 

You've stated you don't want a user in your house that takes Xanax. But she's using and she's in YOUR house! Have her leave now.

 

This is YOUR BOUNDARY and YOU must stick to it.

 

You can simply pack her one bag and drop her off at the emergency room.

 

That's it! It is HERS to handle from there!!! And the hospital will line up care/a treatment plan for her while she's there.

 

Let go and let god! Let it go now knowing it isn't YOUR responsibility and you can't make her do it.

 

But I promise - when you stop giving her the options and delaying action - she WILL get more open to considering getting help!

 

The time isn't later - the time is NOW!

 

Drop her off and say "I love you - hope you get well Mom"

 

 

Since you've stated that is YOUR boundary - I'd love to see you abide by that guideline for yourself!

Edited November 6, 2014 by beach

[Divasu]

Beach, I understand your POV, I do.

 

I'm sorry but my mindset right now, with regard to my mother's relapse, is to not kick her when she is down.

 

She is going to do that to herself, because, the Xanax she managed to retrieve is almost gone and her body will begin to go into withdrawl, like it did the first time and landed her in detox/rehab. She got better, but sadly, took two steps back.

 

She can avoid this, if SHE chooses to. But, I will not rush the process along for her. She is going to own this, one way or the other.

[beach]

Ok - I see that your boundary has been eliminated for now.

 

Ok - let us know how it goes.

 

Have you been to any al anon meetings?

 

 

 

And I hope you know YOU aren't kicking her when she's down - it's what she is doing that's responsible for that.

[Tayla]

Beach, I understand your POV, I do.

 

I'm sorry but my mindset right now, with regard to my mother's relapse, is to not kick her when she is down.

 

She is going to do that to herself, because, the Xanax she managed to retrieve is almost gone and her body will begin to go into withdrawl, like it did the first time and landed her in detox/rehab. She got better, but sadly, took two steps back.

 

She can avoid this, if SHE chooses to. But, I will not rush the process along for her. She is going to own this, one way or the other.

 

Divasu, you are handling this just fine. Been on the other end of it and you are doing what is right for the scenario. Setting a time frame and seeking advisal. I think you are wise .

[Divasu]

Ok - I see that your boundary has been eliminated for now.

 

Ok - let us know how it goes.

 

Have you been to any al anon meetings?

 

 

 

And I hope you know YOU aren't kicking her when she's down - it's what she is doing that's responsible for that.

 

Thanks Beach:). I admit, your comments started to piss me off , and made me feel bad about myself for a bit, but, I "get" it...

 

Yes, I've been to al anon before, but that was years ago I had a best friend at the time who ran into a bit of trouble, but, after a bit we parted ways. I haven't spoken with her for decades.

 

In any event, you'll be happy to know that I recently downloaded the Codependent No More Book and I am on Part II. And, have an appointment next week with Therapist I've been speaking with. That appointment is for ME.

 

As for Mom, she has begun calling Addiction Psychiatrists and she has agreed to have an appointment scheduled by the end of next week.

 

I am not going to post in this thread for a bit, when there are more updates/progress I will post back.

 

Divasu, you are handling this just fine. Been on the other end of it and you are doing what is right for the scenario. Setting a time frame and seeking advisal. I think you are wise .

 

Thank you Tayla. Your words are comforting. Yes, I am trying my best. I don't necessarily know if there is a "right" or "wrong" way with situations like this and I'm just trying to take it day by day.

 

Blessings to you both.

[Divasu]

So thought I'd provide a quick update (and thoughts).

 

Myself and my mother, have separate appointments with therapists this week. I'm on Chapter 9 of the Codependent No More Book.

 

I will also most likely be traveling to Florida over the next few weeks with my Father for some "father-daughter" time. I miss my Father a lot. I've longed for that relationship so long in my life with him, and now I have it and I can tell you, it is such a good feeling to have.

 

It's funny how parental roles shift through the years. My mother, who was once, my mother, my everything, no longer is. My father, who was once not a father, now is. Life is strange.

 

I've been more sleepy lately, whereas before I felt like I was running mechanically. I guess it all caught up with me. But, I'm feeling positive, and, I'm trying to learn how to "detach" in a healthier way. I'm not completely there yet. I'm trying to let God take over more in my life and trust that he knows what's right.

 

That's it for now, thank you again to everyone for lending your ears and your thoughtful advice.

[beach]

Hi Diva-

 

Checking in to see if you are taking care of yourself.

 

Hope things are changing for the better!

 

Any updates? Hugs

[Divasu]

Hi Diva-

 

Checking in to see if you are taking care of yourself.

 

Hope things are changing for the better!

 

Any updates? Hugs

 

Hi Beach,

 

Thanks for checking in. Well I'm in Florida on a much needed vacation. I'm in therapy for support/my stuff have a 2nd appointment when I return to my residence.

 

Have been doing a lot of reading in between on codependent topics and doing the written exercises. It's been very helpful.

 

Mom is off of Xanax, from what I know, she was a bit sick right before I left I think from withdrawals perhaps. She's continuing outpatient therapy and made an appointment with a addiction psychiatrist. My brother is with her while I'm away, I'll know more when I return home. The inpatient residence has all her paperwork and knows what to do, if her withdrawals become to much, and my brother will take her there.

 

For now I am enjoying time with my friends and family in Florida as I have relatives/friends here. Handling my work/job remotely in between.

 

And, come spring next year, I hope to help Mom relocate and on her own.

 

Thanks again I hope you're doing something nice and relaxing for Thanksgiving.

[beach]

Hi Beach,

 

Thanks for checking in. Well I'm in Florida on a much needed vacation. I'm in therapy for support/my stuff have a 2nd appointment when I return to my residence.

 

Have been doing a lot of reading in between on codependent topics and doing the written exercises. It's been very helpful.

 

Mom is off of Xanax, from what I know, she was a bit sick right before I left I think from withdrawals perhaps. She's continuing outpatient therapy and made an appointment with a addiction psychiatrist. My brother is with her while I'm away, I'll know more when I return home. The inpatient residence has all her paperwork and knows what to do, if her withdrawals become to much, and my brother will take her there.

 

For now I am enjoying time with my friends and family in Florida as I have relatives/friends here. Handling my work/job remotely in between.

 

And, come spring next year, I hope to help Mom relocate and on her own.

 

Thanks again I hope you're doing something nice and relaxing for Thanksgiving.

 

Thanks, I'm planning to have a great Thanksgiving! Hope you do too.

 

 

A few weeks ago you stated that for your sanity you thought you'd consider moving her by Jan but now you state spring... Why did you move that healthy boundary for yourself?

 

 

 

Glad Mom is doing better but this is a program of change. If everything for her changed that would be a very good thing!

 

Things stay the same if you don't change them... And it's best that they don't look like her past/history.

 

 

Providing her a place to stay isn't your responsibility. She's a grown woman and can ask her dr to help her figure out a new plan.

 

It's time you get YOUR life back and enjoy your own personal space.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

Never Trust An Addict - True or False?

 

Do you believe this to be true?

 

 

 

Without reading any of the context here at all, I think a better stance might be akin to the "Possession Arrow" used in basketball.

 

 

While it does make sense that one can (and even should ?) evolve to potentially trust an addict {or any such "recovering" addict - "once an addict, always an addict" - NO exceptions}, it makes more sense to have something akin to the possession arrow, which indicates firmly/clearly that upon the next transgression/relapse by the addict, you are (what is usually out the door, away from the addict for good).

 

It could even be said that you owe it to such addicts to keep firm consequences facing them so as to help motivate them toward the recovery which you both want for them.

 

 

... and then, when it happens, you just GO... it's OVER... you're DONE... and you never look back!!! (you're not the addict in the equation - by then it's time to prove it and GTFO!! )

[writergal]

Divasu how is Florida treating you? I hope the sunshine is helping and that you're having fun with your friends and family. Everything you've described that you're doing for yourself and for your mom sounds very constructive. Take care of you! Have a great Thanksgiving!

[beach]

Is moving a possibility for you?

 

Maybe a new place would be a fresh start for you...?

 

If it's a viable option would you consider it? That could be awesome for you!!

[Divasu]

Thanks, I'm planning to have a great Thanksgiving! Hope you do too.

 

 

A few weeks ago you stated that for your sanity you thought you'd consider moving her by Jan but now you state spring... Why did you move that healthy boundary for yourself?

 

 

 

Glad Mom is doing better but this is a program of change. If everything for her changed that would be a very good thing!

 

Things stay the same if you don't change them... And it's best that they don't look like her past/history.

 

 

Providing her a place to stay isn't your responsibility. She's a grown woman and can ask her dr to help her figure out a new plan.

 

It's time you get YOUR life back and enjoy your own personal space.

 

I am getting my life back, day by day. It's already decided where she's going to live come next year, just waiting on the housing to come through.

 

 

Without reading any of the context here at all, I think a better stance might be akin to the "Possession Arrow" used in basketball.

 

 

While it does make sense that one can (and even should ?) evolve to potentially trust an addict {or any such "recovering" addict - "once an addict, always an addict" - NO exceptions}, it makes more sense to have something akin to the possession arrow, which indicates firmly/clearly that upon the next transgression/relapse by the addict, you are (what is usually out the door, away from the addict for good).

 

It could even be said that you owe it to such addicts to keep firm consequences facing them so as to help motivate them toward the recovery which you both want for them.

 

 

... and then, when it happens, you just GO... it's OVER... you're DONE... and you never look back!!! (you're not the addict in the equation - by then it's time to prove it and GTFO!! )

 

Thanks. This whole thing, her living with me, is temporary. Nonetheless,

It's a horrible feeling not being able to trust a parent and having to become the parent, like this. Her coming to live with me was more so at the direction of my sister, so part of me felt like it was something I had to do, not just for my mother but the whole family. I left when I was 15 so I really wasn't around when all this stuff was going down.

 

Divasu how is Florida treating you? I hope the sunshine is helping and that you're having fun with your friends and family. Everything you've described that you're doing for yourself and for your mom sounds very constructive. Take care of you! Have a great Thanksgiving!

 

It is. . Thanks. Though today was a bit rainy. Thank you for the support it means a lot. I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving writergal, my song bird.

 

Is moving a possibility for you?

 

Maybe a new place would be a fresh start for you...?

 

If it's a viable option would you consider it? That could be awesome for you!!

 

I've considered eventually moving to Florida one day. We'll see. Thanks again, will try to update more as things progress, for now I'm putting it out of my mind and enjoying time away.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Wow,

 

I'd not until this moment known any of the context of this at all.

 

 

While I still feel (accurate - is perhaps the right word) about the possession arrow reference, to now add to the typical scenario one which would have an offspring needing to parent their parent, gives cause for contemplation.

 

While it is somewhat (comforting, almost) that you left at 15, and missed most of (whatever you've described earlier)... in that it makes you slightly less emotionally/personally invested... it also might make it a touch 'easier' for you to return and apply firmer parenting techniques than you might have done if additionally impacted by having lived through all of what went on, and been more personally impacted.

 

 

IF ONLY the unpredictability that is life with an addict could be predictable, just so you could know in advance...

[beach]

When she's progressing in her recovery - it will look different than now.

 

Amends would mean she becomes capable of taking care of HERSELF and allows you peace of mind by her being predictable and responsible.

 

No recovery ever looks happy until the one recovering becomes proud of the hard things they accomplish/overcome. And that something no one can do FOR THEM!

 

When family tries to DO that FOR them - they are essentially sending the message to the one recovering: I don't believe in you/ that you can do this/I must do this for you because I know you won't. See? It sets up for failure.

 

 

It is ONLY for HER to DO. When she BECOMES proud of HERSELF she is making progress. She can't become proud of HERSELF if someone else is checking up on her/ making her appointments/asking her Dr if she's doing what's right.

 

She may not do it perfectly according to others - but if she's making progress to become proud of herself then she's in the right direction.

 

She needs room to grow. Space. And an open mind to consider suggestions from a professional that's guiding her sobriety.

 

It's hard, yes! But it is possible - and likely to happen when everyone gets out of her way so she can find a way that works for HER.

 

I hope you are all doing well! Have you read a neat book by Don Miguel Ruiz (actually two books by him are very good) the Four Agreements and the Mastery of Love. They may be very helpful especially given that you left the family early and have these "assigned meanings" about the family dynamics.

 

Seems all the siblings are deciding who's turn is next to care for Mom - and that's backwards. No one says you HAVE to. In fact, it's probably better if you don't (by just saying NO).

 

Hope all is well. Hope you read those books - I found them MORE useful than CoDependent No More!

[BC1980]

I've read this thread, and there is some good advice here. I wanted to chime in from the point of view of one who is an addict. The posters are correct when they say you shouldn't coerce your mom in to treatment. The best thing to do would be to draw the boundaries you will enforce if she continues to engage in addictive behavior. You will still love her and will be there to support her is she chooses recovery, but, until the time in which she chooses to remain sober, there will be certain boundaries drawn. It will then be up to her to decide if she is willing to engage in the addiction at the costs presented.

 

Truly, that is all you can do for her. Recovery is tremendously difficult and a daily battle. Some will never take that step, and it's their choice. They don't want to hurt you, but the power of addiction is so great. I can't describe it to you.

 

Your initial question was "Can You Trust an Addict?" You can trust an addict as much as you can trust any other person, which has to be assessed based on your experience with the person. Can you trust an addict never to relapse? The answer to that is NO. You can never trust any addict not to relapse. It's a day to day thing.