Never Trust An Addict - True or False?

[Divasu]

Thank you to all for the additional comments, your time and help. I'll respond to the last set of comments in this one post as I try to write out my thoughts on it.

 

When I left at 15, it was supposed to be temporary, because things at home weren't getting any better and I was, I guess you could say a "problem child" who just wasn't capable of being happy.

 

Up until that point, lots of anger, lots of confusion, and sadness. A mother who was emotionally suffocating and a father not emotionally present, rarely physically present either (except for when I was between ages of 5 and 9, his temper tantrums, yelling and the occasional threats of breaking my arm and then twisting it, or ramming my head against something). I wasn't allowed to cry or act up in front of him.

 

I was supposed to go back to living with Mom, but I met new friends and enjoyed where I was, going back kept getting pushed back and, I never returned. Though, I visited throughout and spent many hours on the phone listening to her stuff, so even with the distance, it was still always "about her".

 

Though today, it kind of still is, but through it all it has taught me a lot about myself. And, has taught me a lot about my parents, why my childhood was what it was.

 

There will come a day when she/my mom is no longer here, in this lifetime. So it's hard because it feels like we missed out on so much, all that time apart, yet my mother still feels "gone" from me, if that makes sense. It is hard for me, to just have turned my back on her, a time when she was in desperate need of help.

 

I know that it is truly and only up to her to overcome this, just as it is up to me to take care of myself. And, I'm trying to take the steps in order to do that.

 

Progress has been made, yes there was a relapse, and I was close to losing myself when I first started this thread. But I took the steps to get back on track. And I hope progress will continue to be made on her end. Therapy will help me continue to make strides, I'm seeing an Art Therapist and I hope that will prove helpful. And Mom will be on her own eventually, once again.

 

So that's bout it for now. Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving and took a moment to be, thankful for ourselves and others.

[beach]

Art therapy is awesome!

[Divasu]

Art therapy is awesome!

 

Yes, I'm looking forward to painting a bunch of shutfff. .

 

How have you been?

 

I''m still on vacation, my father left today and I cried like a weepy baby. I won't see him again for a while and I miss him already. So I've been a bit mopey. But it was nice spending time with him in between him watching football. We watched movies together, cooked food every night with everyone. It was nice.

 

But I wiped my tears away today and refocused on work, in between posting here and some other things. Spoke to mom briefly today, she seems to be doing well. I'll be back there soon and will be refocused on my stuff, and finalizing an exit plan for the Spring where I can have my house back to myself and Mom back out on her own. Hopefully for her, Xanax free.

[Divasu]

**bump**

 

Just thought I would post a quick update since all of you were so helpful...

 

Mom will be in California soon, I just had a relative pass away after a long battle with diabetes Type 2. (hence why I have been out of the loop).

 

Thank you to all those who have been there.

[beach]

Hi!

 

Sorry about the news of your relative.

 

Has your Mom been living on her own this year? Supporting herself? Staying sober/unaltered?

 

Is she coming to visit you? If so, for how long?

 

How are you doing this past year? Good I hope! Hugs!

[pureinheart]

Well, didn't see your thread until now and didn't read your entire thread. I am so sorry about your family member... wow.

 

Concerning addiction. It can be beat, the key is the person wanting help. If they don't want to quit, then I would see little hope. There was a show on tv called, 'intervention' (think that was the name) where family members said, 'no more, either you get it right or you are on your own'. Some are clean and sober and some went back.

 

I just hope you are well and hope to hear of a victorious update... Love ya D...

[Divasu]

Well, didn't see your thread until now and didn't read your entire thread. I am so sorry about your family member... wow.

 

Concerning addiction. It can be beat, the key is the person wanting help. If they don't want to quit, then I would see little hope. There was a show on tv called, 'intervention' (think that was the name) where family members said, 'no more, either you get it right or you are on your own'. Some are clean and sober and some went back.

 

I just hope you are well and hope to hear of a victorious update... Love ya D...

 

THANK YOU. Love yall too

 

PS. Beach, will reply to you when I'm feeling a bit more up to ut. I'm doing much better, just gotta keep trucking forward

[Divasu]

Hi!

 

Sorry about the news of your relative.

 

Has your Mom been living on her own this year? Supporting herself? Staying sober/unaltered?

 

Is she coming to visit you? If so, for how long?

 

How are you doing this past year? Good I hope! Hugs!

 

Thank you very much.

It's been very hard on all of us (relative was my aunt).

 

Without going into great detail, Mom is doing fine and we will be okay. She will be close but not close enough (if that makes sense), which is healthier for both of us.

 

Myself, I've had a very tough time as of recent but doing better each day and will post more as I believe to be more comfortable.

 

THANK YOU for your kind support, hope you have a wonderful holiday season and you are doing well too.

[Divasu]

Much has happened since I last updated this thread...

(thank you to those who contributed - it's been very helpful)

 

Good News: Mom has been drug-free (yay!)

Bad News: Mom was diagnosed with Cancer a few months ago.

 

In-Between and Current: I (along with siblings) still support her financially (from housing to transportation). And, I do not think that will change anytime soon. I suffered from a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized in the aftermath. And, we have argued constantly.

 

The theme has been, I try to set and enforce boundaries; she in turn deflects.

Her attitude towards me is I am: "Ungrateful; not thankful she took care of me as a child; my childhood caused her drug addiction later in life; I should be ashamed for having a good relationship with my father as an adult because he was a bad parent in childhood, her the savior; I owe her everything, etc.”.

 

She is the “victim”.

I am the “bad child”.

 

I feel mind-warped afterwards.

Am I the cause of my mother's distress; am I in the wrong?

 

I've reached points of hatred towards her outwardly, as though I have been hollowed out and all that remains is a shred of light and love towards her underneath. She now sees me as cold and uncaring.

 

The tipping point was an explosive argument that escalated to a physical one.

 

She came after me and attempted to strike me.

I was able to ward off the attack and restrain her.

Every inch of my being wanted to physically strike back out of anger for how she has treated me, but I didn't. I chose to physically restrain her instead.

 

It is just, SO TOXIC.

 

So, I have chosen to detach from her emotionally.

 

I chose to forgive her, at the same time, I said goodbye to the mother-daughter relationship I wish we had, for the mother that was there for me when I was younger, and grieved the mother that I will never have.

 

I limit my time and engagement with her to very little.

It has worked wonders.

 

Then the curve wrench.

Cancer.

 

It is Stage 0 (which I am told if you do get Cancer - Stage 0 is the "best stage" in terms of outcome).

 

How does one be there for a parent going through Cancer but remain detached as to not fall back into the deep abyss?

 

She won't be here one day and the guilt I already feel, will be tenfold.

[SpecialJ]

Having read your thread, what I can't help but wonder is, why do you think you feel guilty at this point? You've supported her and helped her fight her drug problem. Whether she appreciates it or not, it sounds like you know you've given her extra high quality of life time -- this is something to feel strength around, not guilt. You must know that the venom she has spewed at you is related to her issues, not to yours or anything you did to her.

 

I also am making the assumption that you still have a therapist or access to mental health providers for yourself after your nervous breakdown. If so, you should talk to them about the source of the guilt and about the cruel things she has said to you. Have you actually spoken to someone about the possibility that you are co-dependent and not just read books about it? And about how to reinforce the more recent boundaries you have put up to work in this situation? Is there more you could understand about people with your mom's mindset (it sounds like your mom has a LOT of difficultly taking responsibility for things in her life) so that you can become less affected by the things she says to you and then help her at arms length without giving up your sanity again? Or, alternatively, is there a way you can make peace with yourself if you don't actively help her through this health struggle because the cost is going to be too high for you to be there for her in any significant way? Those are questions you may want to explore with a professional.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this, and I'm glad you're strong enough to ask how you can do something for her to help with this new challenge without sacrificing yourself. That is a better place than you were once in while helping her stay sober. But I think it may be a better to use the board for venting/moral support and get professional help with making a plan for this next stage, because it is a complicated issue with no easy suggestion for remaining detached.

[stixx]

Do you believe this to be true?

 

Hello LS!

 

I have reached a pivotal point I am desperate for some support. My friends/family have so much on their plate right now and my siblings and myself are all pretty much going through the same thing.

 

Some time ago, I posted a thread regarding a family member’s addiction to Xanax. I’ll call her Lucy for the purpose of this thread.

 

Drastic measures were taken to help Lucy get/stay clean and she seemingly did well but has relapsed. After her first discharge (2 years ago) she was placed in an intensive outpatient program which tapered down to 1-2 days per week which brings us to today.

 

Throughout this time, her therapists prescribed Clonazepam to help wean her from Xanax and help her anxiety. They eventually tapered her off and no more was to be given.

 

Also during this timeframe, I scheduled for a General Practioner (“GP”) to oversee her medical and sent him her medical charts. During one of her appointments, Lucy managed to see a nurse practioner within his medical practice while he was away on vacation and unbenknown to me, Lucy asked for a Xanax prescription and it was given to her. This happened on 9/11/2014.

 

Now, the only reason I know this is because I confronted Lucy after an incident involving missing Xanax from her sister (whom she frequently visits). Nearly 150 Xanax pills are missing from her sister’s house (her sister takes Xanax but has no addiction like Lucy does).

 

I won’t outline all the details as to how I discovered the prescription being given by the nurse practioner but she and I have discussed it at length. Lucy vehemently denies any part of her sister’s missing Xanax and, sadly, I cannot for an absolute fact prove it was her.

 

Nonetheless, this does not negate the fact that she was not forth coming with being back on Xanax prior to this. Given I am overseeing her care, as well as supporting her financially, I think I have the right to know, yes? Lucy is not in good health. She is older, is now on insulin to control her Type 2 diabetes and has a host of other health ailments as is.

 

So, I am now in the process of placing her in an inpatient care center for a dual diagnosis program. She does not know this and when she finds out all hell is going to break loose. I fear her ability to cope once the cat is out of the bag (to which, all the medical professionals say “well you’ll just have to call 911”). I’ve already had countless trips to the ER with her, I’m afraid this 2nd time around is going to be more then she can handle.

 

And, I am struggling with handling this myself as I see the toll it is taking on my health - I am having difficulty sleeping (sleeping is typically not a problem for me), I have pain in my chest and sometimes feel like I’m going to collapse from exhaustion. I’m going to be seeing her psychiatrist with her this week (at which point I can get some support through group therapy).

 

I need to support Lucy fully. While I acknowledge addiction causes abusive behavior towards other people especially towards those who are close to Lucy, I can't accept it. Therein lies the struggle.

 

Quite honestly, I feel so close to popping a Xanax myself. But I won't. I did go so far as to crack open a wine cooler the other night but ended up taking 2-3 sips before I just wasn't into it. Gah.

 

Well, thanks for listening. Please feel free to comment and/or share your own struggles, group support is invaluable.

 

Out of college i started in mental health(hated it), and ended up working with addicts. I dont trust any addict.

 

My little cousin is an addict and who gets the first call asking for help since Im in the field? Me. I told my aunt I am sorry but I cant help her. Try a program and its not my problem....

 

For 20 years shes still a junkie and so is her child now. That kid is going to the best private high school in the area because she is a poor junkie and the kid gets busted with weed and still gets a free ride.

 

I never met the kid and I dont care.

 

I dont trust addicts! Addicts are nothing but pure chaos!

 

I havent worked the field for years now because I think its a revolving door of nonsense.

[coolheadal]

Substance abuse is really serious business. The woman I had love was totally doing it and that's why she was always feeling hot when I was feeling cold. She turned now the central AC to 70 F always. She was never feeling cold enough. Crack and Cocaine, smokes and drinks was really making her worst then the mental pills to keep her normal was way too much for me to stand. I am loyal and will to help but sometimes you just can't stay in the kitchen and hope the fire will be put out soon.

[stixx]

Never trust an addict in life....Even if they are in recovery... They only bring ppl down.

 

They are worse than vampires. They rob and cheat for anything......a small hit for 10 minutes of whatever they feel. Let them go and never look back. Even sober they dont know how to change those addict ways because they are child in thought.

 

I can deal with much crap and shrug it off, but I will never deal with an addict.

 

Once an addict always an addict.

 

Get away!

[Divasu]

Having read your thread, what I can't help but wonder is, why do you think you feel guilty at this point?

 

Thank you for reading.

 

I think you essentially nailed it.

 

I suppose I feel guilty because, my Mother was there for me as a Child when my Father was the Abusive Parent and I in turn during this time, checked out.

 

She was the Primary Caregiver both emotionally and physically during my childhood, so she feels I must submit to be a "grateful adult child".

 

I think, for the most part, I've identified "the cycle".

 

I.E. The "Parent" (past victim) turned Abuser.

 

Unfortunately, given recent past and present day, as it relates to this Thread, the answer is True.

 

I suspected all along, that I am a def Co-Dependent, I guess it was just too difficult to say the actual words and live by them.

 

Nonetheless, I need to refocus and work on a 3rd exit plan. I must cut back the strings, without my sibling(s) blacklisting me.

[S2B]

Well if/since she's still manipulating you and you feel badly about it all its time to tighten the boundary once again.

 

When do you "stop owing her?" I'd say why keep score?

 

She may have helped you as a child but what she has done in the recent years doesn't make the past or present ok.

 

She may be clean but it doesn't appear she has done the work in the program...? Are you sure she's not using again?

 

My recovery is based on helping others and also ha ding my loved ones peace of mind...

 

Although I have a sister who plays the mean girl role well - I currently don't have a thing to do with her because she's just plain mean to me. It's MY boundary to have her stay away from me. I also honor myself and I no longer allow others to be mean to me - if they do and it's not gonna change I don't engage anymore. That's part of not causing harm to myself and not causing harm to others. The first rule of engagement is "do not engage"! This is MY boundary FOR myself!

 

My sister tried hugging me to say hello at a gathering last week and I simply stated "no, please don't". I held my hand up like a stop sign. She got that message loud and clear...I can't risk the pretending and also as soon as I let her in she bites me... you get my drift.

 

And yes, abuse is in my childhood and adult life until ten years ago. I won't participate in it anymore! You shouldn't either. If your Mom and other family members don't understand then ok - who cares?

 

You need to care for yourself. Make a pact with yourself that you will no longer accept unacceptable behavior from ANYONE.

 

Implement that boundary now and practice self care.

 

 

...beach ?

[Divasu]

Well if/since she's still manipulating you and you feel badly about it all its time to tighten the boundary once again.

 

When do you "stop owing her?" I'd say why keep score?

 

She may have helped you as a child but what she has done in the recent years doesn't make the past or present ok.

 

She may be clean but it doesn't appear she has done the work in the program...? Are you sure she's not using again?

 

Thank you.

 

If I recall correctly, she came to live with me in 2011, and had been in individual therapy, followed by rehab, followed by partial care post discharge, followed by individual therapy through 2015.

 

Her Rehab was for Xanax & Hydrocodone in addition to 5-6 other prescription meds. She was cutting herself in-between.

 

I was seeing a therapist during this time as well in between my job, family/friends, personal life, pets, etc.

 

(FTR: Rehab was not her choosing, but she said she chose to go for "us").

 

My Aunt (her sister's home) had Xanax pills disappear on more than one occasion; cash from my Aunt's house went missing on more than one occasion (my mother had access to the home).

 

In 2015, I vehemently requested she leave, following the loss of an elder pet, an aunt, and her continued shoplifting.

 

She and my Sister asked if she could stay for a few more months, I said fine.

Finally, my Dad was called in.

 

My father wants me closer to my immediate family now, which I understand, but I am not happy here as my Mother is still living with me and we are taking care of her financially, and just as the way we were before.

 

I have found when cleaning the house, her advil on the floor, needles from her diabetic testing unit, rotted bananas, staples, you name it. My elder pet died and my 3 year old pup became sick, all unknown circumstances.

 

She used my credit card without permission to purchase items she said were for my Birthday, but when I saw the charges on my account, I contacted the creditor and they told me the list of charges, I confronted her with the help of my brother, and she denied it.

 

The only break from this is me leaving, again, thousands of miles away.

Now she has Cancer, my Dad is older, I'm sure you know the drill.

 

I am exactly where I started, funny how that works. Evidently.

[S2B]

Why do you have to leave? Who's home is it?

[Divasu]

Why do you have to leave? Who's home is it?

 

It is a rental unit, that I occupy and my mother is living in, paid for via myself and my sibling. I also have a separate property/mortgage to pay for too...

 

Prior to that, it was a separate rental unit that I was residing in, she came to live with me, and I paid for the rental unit for us, solely.

 

I want to leave the current rental unit we are residing in, she can stay in it, and I'll just continue paying for it with the help of my siblings. If not that, she can either go live with my Sister (which, I know her family will not approve of)... or, if it becomes available any time soon, senior housing.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Divasu

[S2B]

It is a rental unit, that I occupy and my mother is living in, paid for via myself and my sibling. I also have a separate property/mortgage to pay for too...

 

Prior to that, it was a separate rental unit that I was residing in, she came to live with me, and I paid for the rental unit for us, solely.

 

I want to leave the current rental unit we are residing in, she can stay in it, and I'll just continue paying for it with the help of my siblings. If not that, she can either go live with my Sister (which, I know her family will not approve of)... or, if it becomes available any time soon, senior housing.

 

Yes, is make arrangements to get out as soon as possible.

 

You have to care for your best interest first.

 

Being in a position of fragility and continuing to be in the presence of any person who's dragging you down is detrimental to your well being!

 

Do it soon. And please keep us updated.

 

Be strong - you can do this!

[S2B]

As a side note, based on the info you described, I doubt she's clean/sober.

[Divasu]

Yes, is make arrangements to get out as soon as possible.

 

You have to care for your best interest first.

 

Being in a position of fragility and continuing to be in the presence of any person who's dragging you down is detrimental to your well being!

 

Do it soon. And please keep us updated.

 

Be strong - you can do this!

 

Thank you again, for your help.

 

Yes, the current arrangements (which took effect several months ago) no longer seem to be working.

 

My brother had pitched in, thankfully, but at the same time while I began to distance myself from her physically and try to set/enforce my personal boundaries, we verbally fought constantly, and it intensified.

 

I called her a bad name, she came after me throwing fists.

 

Given what I've discovered post us moving closer to my brother, I no longer feel confident that my brother and I alone, are the solution.

 

I'm not sure about him, but with me, she still seems latched on to me, as a mother and an addict.

 

i.e. my credit card being used by her to pay for things not related to myself; my 2nd pet diagnosed with an unknown illness after falling extremely ill following my absence (left in her care); my personal belongings I found in her possession, almost hidden, after I was cleaning (makeup, skin care, etc.), and I discovered 20-30 diabetic needles when I moved her suitcase (she visited my sister), they fell like a pot of gold, and she NEVER tests her blood sugar...

 

Did I mention the rotted food left out for days, turned compost in the backyard where my dog goes to do potty? Grr...

 

The above referenced incidents alone on a financial level, is a couple thousand dollars.

 

While I don't believe that both pets (mysteriously) falling ill, following my absence (left in her care), is intentional, how many more incidents is considered still coincidental.

 

As a side note, based on the info you described, I doubt she's clean/sober.

 

You may be correct.

 

As mentioned, I've heard her mention "her current difficulty" with her MD in obtaining medications for her metal health medications.

 

She can make her own appointment and go from there.

 

I'll continue dealing with my own gobbly goop.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Divasu

[SammySammy]

You can always trust an addict ... to be an addict. To do the things an addict does.

 

What's most important when trying to help an addict is remembering to take care of yourself. Your own physical and mental wellbeing.

 

It's a difficult situation. Make sure you're not enabling her. Let her own the consequences of her actions.

 

And take care of yourself. I think you were on the right track when you started to disassociate yourself from her. Some of the things she says and does to you are simply abusive. You have to make sure those things don't harm you. Mentally or otherwise.

[Divasu]

You can always trust an addict ... to be an addict. To do the things an addict does.

 

What's most important when trying to help an addict is remembering to take care of yourself. Your own physical and mental wellbeing.

 

It's a difficult situation. Make sure you're not enabling her. Let her own the consequences of her actions.

 

And take care of yourself. I think you were on the right track when you started to disassociate yourself from her. Some of the things she says and does to you are simply abusive. You have to make sure those things don't harm you. Mentally or otherwise.

 

You are correct.

The environment has been harmful to my overall wellbeing.

 

I know my part and I know she has difficulty understanding it.

My need for space away from what I can only perceive as a toxic environment.

She cannot see her role in it, only my fathers, and that in and of itself, I think has been a source of friction for her and I.

 

I forgave my father years ago, and our relationship became stronger, I think she and I just had some unfinished mother/daughter business to work through.

 

I am sure we will have more as a family, to come.

 

Thank you (and everyone else), for your input.

It has been a tremendous help. In more ways than I can count.

[S2B]

As a gal that has sponsored more than 150 people who intended to get sober and clean - I can tell you that when people seriously work a program everything changes. That's the point isn't it?

 

And the ones who didn't get/stay sober/clean - things looked the same or got more ugly in every single case.

 

When everyone makes things easy for that person to continue doing what they do (drink/use) - they just continue using/drinking.

 

When friends and family have a boundary and stick to consequences it tends to send a message to the addict that they find that behavior completely unacceptable and you want nothing to do with them.

 

It looks like your family helps your Mom to stay sick. Your Mom can be left on her own to figure this out HERSELF! Then maybe she will get motivated to change something instead of using you all by having you pay her way.

 

Stop helping her - it's not helping!

 

Take care of yourself. You need self care and I hope you'll make it your top priority!

 

Tell your Mom you're done. She a grown woman and needs to take care of herself. Tell her you'll pray she does.

[Divasu]

As a gal that has sponsored more than 150 people who intended to get sober and clean - I can tell you that when people seriously work a program everything changes. That's the point isn't it?

 

And the ones who didn't get/stay sober/clean - things looked the same or got more ugly in every single case.

 

When everyone makes things easy for that person to continue doing what they do (drink/use) - they just continue using/drinking.

 

You may be right.

 

And, I do not know for certain whether she is, or not.

 

When friends and family have a boundary and stick to consequences it tends to send a message to the addict that they find that behavior completely unacceptable and you want nothing to do with them.

 

Pretty much.

 

It looks like your family helps your Mom to stay sick. Your Mom can be left on her own to figure this out HERSELF! Then maybe she will get motivated to change something instead of using you all by having you pay her way.

 

Stop helping her - it's not helping!

 

They did, for many years (it almost cost a family member a divorce).

That's when I came back into the picture.

 

Take care of yourself. You need self care and I hope you'll make it your top priority!

 

Tell your Mom you're done. She a grown woman and needs to take care of herself. Tell her you'll pray she does.

 

I think I made my intentions known to her based on our last argument.

 

Now when I feel that she is trying to reign me back in, in an unhealthy manner, (i.e. elder mother/adult child dynamic), I pull back.

 

It is so difficult to find the balance in terms of mother/daughter.

I've always struggled verbally.

I'm trying.

 

Thank you S2B.