Indirect Suicide by Letting Oneself Go

[Darren2013]

I read something on here awhile back where one poster suspected that a family member was committing slow indirect suicide by letting themselves go physically.

 

Is that really a method of suicide that some depressed folks choose where they don't want to take charge and directly end their lives but rather just let themselves go and wait for a disease to do the job for them like heart disease or cancer?

 

If so isn't a slow indirect suicide worse and probably more selfish than a direct suicide? Yeah with a direct and quick suicide loved ones and friends will grieve for a time but eventually they recover and carry on with their lives and the burden isn't placed on them to take care of the person who committed suicide. With indirect slow suicide it is probably more selfish since if one decides to let themselves go and just be a vegetable waiting for a disease to come and kill them they become a burden on others who have to take care of them during that waiting period.

 

What do you think? How would you handle the situation if you knew that a friend or family member was just letting themselves go with their health just because they have given up on living and no longer care if they get a disease that kills them as a result of that? Do you dust your feet off and have nothing else to do with them since you can't in good conscience stick around and watch them slowly kill themselves with food or drink or smokes?

 

Or do you tell them "Listen if you are serious about not wanting to live anymore then don't you think it would make much more sense to get a gun and shoot yourself than to sit around abusing your body and living like a vegetable?" Because honestly the direct and quick form of suicide would be alot less selfish and save money on medical expenses and save the burden of someone else taking care of them.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Darren2013

[Keenly]

If some one chooses to let themselves go, that is NOT suicide.

 

 

I get so angry at the people who insist that others must make the same choices that they do. If some one wants to get fat and out of shape, it is 100%, their right to do it.

 

 

 

If its some how labeled as suicide, which is ridiculous, then anorexia , bulemia, cutting, all these forms of self mutilation must also be ruled suicide.

[Darren2013]

Yes but some choices have an effect on others such as when the big medical bill comes. Most of us don't have thousands of dollars to pay for a hospital bill and that money has to come from somewhere because the doctors and hospitals need to get paid for their services. By law no one can be turned away at the emergency room no matter what choices they made to get in the shape they are in.

[d0nnivain]

Seems more like depression than a specific plan to self harm.

 

I do know that suicidal people often engage in high risk behaviors like not wearing a seat belt.

[gaius]

One of my family members is doing that. He's gained so much weight that he keeps having a variety of problems with his legs. I can see them getting sawn off in the near future which will only exasperate things. He's only in his early 50's and is already spiraling toward a self inflicted horrific end.

 

The ugly truth is you can't really do anything about it. =/ Unless they want to change they aren't going to.

[Keenly]

Yes but some choices have an effect on others such as when the big medical bill comes. Most of us don't have thousands of dollars to pay for a hospital bill and that money has to come from somewhere because the doctors and hospitals need to get paid for their services. By law no one can be turned away at the emergency room no matter what choices they made to get in the shape they are in.

 

This is a BS arguing point that behavior controllists love to use. Watch me refute it right here.

 

 

 

One of the highest causes for all injuries in the united states is sports. If you're going to ban obesity due to ' some one paying the bill ' , linearly, you MUST ban all sports.

 

 

Linear logic. It seems to be dead in 2014.

[Darren2013]

I haven't worn a seatbelt in over 20 years for that very reason. If I get into a car accident and not wearing a seatbelt makes a difference between life and death then I am ready to go. Of course nobody would think I am committing suicide by not wearing a seatbelt because it isn't that obvious. There's all kinds of reasons some people don't wear seatbelts.

[Anela]

I haven't worn a seatbelt in over 20 years for that very reason. If I get into a car accident and not wearing a seatbelt makes a difference between life and death then I am ready to go. Of course nobody would think I am committing suicide by not wearing a seatbelt because it isn't that obvious. There's all kinds of reasons some people don't wear seatbelts.

 

And what if you don't die, and are instead left dependent on others? I've been suicidal, but I also know that there are worse existences than mine. If I'm going to be alive, then I need to be able to take care of myself.

[Darren2013]

That's a valid point. One can also survive a self inflicted gunshot wound to the brain if they don't do it properly or whatever and be left dependent on others taking on a burden.

[Anela]

Okay, this is depressing me. I need to do something else. And I agree with d0nnivain - it sounds like depression.

[Priv]

Seems more like depression than a specific plan to self harm.

 

I do know that suicidal people often engage in high risk behaviors like not wearing a seat belt.

 

This. Not sure what you mean by 'letting yourself go' but common behaviours within depression like drinking/overeating/smoking/drugs etc. are self medicating behaviours. A depressed person is well aware this isn't helpful in the long run but quite helpful in the short term, they just don't care (about life). Noone with the inclination for suicide is going to think to themselves: I am going to smoke 2 packs a cigarettes today so I might develop some decease in 40 years. 'What does it matter if something is going to kill you in 40 years if there is so much wrong going on today' is the general line of thinking.

[Gloria25]

If some one chooses to let themselves go, that is NOT suicide.

 

 

I get so angry at the people who insist that others must make the same choices that they do. If some one wants to get fat and out of shape, it is 100%, their right to do it.

 

 

 

If its some how labeled as suicide, which is ridiculous, then anorexia , bulemia, cutting, all these forms of self mutilation must also be ruled suicide.

 

Yes, there are some people who are just self-indulgent, nasty, lazy and/or self loathing - that doesn't necessarily man they are committing suicide.

 

I got the term "slow suicide" from what I've heard on one of my favorite podcasters and from my mom's sister's death. My mom's sister was married to a gay guy. And, like my mom, instead of her getting some independence and moving on - she had kids with him and stayed with him. Well, of course he had no interest in her so, she just got fatter and fatter, and stopped going to the doctor. Then she died.

 

I think regardless of the form of suicide, a lot of times people who are suicidal are calling out for help...They even want someone to "stop" them. They want someone who "cares". Often times when they do ultimately hurt themselves, they do it in a form of hostility - they want those they left behind to "hurt" (i.e. hanging themselves in the middle of the livingroom where they can be discovered, shooting up a bunch of people, then killing themselves).

 

About my mom, it's always been "about her"...I won't go into too many details cuz this is a public forum. But, what I will say is that I think/hope that regardless of her mistakes, she is at a point where I think most people reach at in their old age - where they don't want to dwell on the past, but be the best they can "now".

 

Going back to the "slow suicide"? I think she's past that, but her getting chunky is something she's done over the years - so that hasn't raised my alarm bells that she's going south again. About the disagreements that we have on her getting treatment for her leg?

 

Well, now she gets some health insurance coverage from her SSA retirement and I just am a point where I "let things go". I mean, if her foot doesn't heal properly, then I'll drop her off at the hospital and it gets cut off and/or her mobility is limited. I'll just ignore her. I do that a lot. I just tune her out. My sibling once told me that he doesn't pay her any mind, it goes into one ear of his and out the other.

 

So, I don't think the foot issue is another alarm bell that she's back to slow suicide, I think she's going through the stubbornness that all old people seem to go through.

 

So, I'm to a point where if someone's killing themself, it hurts, but if they're gonna do what they're gonna do - what can you do? Pray I guess....Now, if you are responsible for them (i.e. paying their bills in a place where you can get accused of "elder abuse"), then I think you have a right to impose certain requirements on them to maintain their health.

 

Now, when we discovered the cancer in my grandmother, dad and I agreed that there was no point in operating on her. She wouldn't survive the trauma that surgery does on the body and/or the chemo. So, we let her go. Her last days were rough. It was hard to see her in pain, but it had to happen. So, if a person is at a point where there's no point and they refuse certain treatment, I'm ok with that.

 

What I'm not a fan of is people who commit suicide cuz they are afraid of reaching "the end" like my grandma did. Death is scary, pain sucks, but some things have to be endured.

 

When I had the treatment for the fibroids, those idiots told me not to worry about the low dose of pain killers they gave me. Well, it didn't stop the pain, and when I stopped taking the pills, I literally thought I was dying (cuz I've been in circumstances where I actually was dying before). I was having diarrhea, chills, problems breathing, dizzyness, I was in hell. I, in silence (and hiding my pain from the family), spent a lot of time praying cuz I thought I was dying. But one day it stopped.

[Gloria25]

This is a BS arguing point that behavior controllists love to use. Watch me refute it right here.

 

 

 

One of the highest causes for all injuries in the united states is sports. If you're going to ban obesity due to ' some one paying the bill ' , linearly, you MUST ban all sports.

 

 

Linear logic. It seems to be dead in 2014.

 

It does get costly...One of my siblings got overweight in his 20's. He developed diabetes, high blood pressure, and sleep apnea. I mean, he had to sleep with one of those weird machines.

 

Cuz of his job, they feared the sleep apnea would cause him to fall asleep and hurt himself/others. So, they obligated him to take certain tests and treatments for the sleep apnea. Well, he didn't know that his job wouldn't cover it - so the bills fell on him... and it was like 20k or something.

 

Thank God, he lost the weight and testing for the diabetes is negative and he no longer is on high blood pressure meds.

[Keenly]

It does get costly...One of my siblings got overweight in his 20's. He developed diabetes, high blood pressure, and sleep apnea. I mean, he had to sleep with one of those weird machines.

 

Cuz of his job, they feared the sleep apnea would cause him to fall asleep and hurt himself/others. So, they obligated him to take certain tests and treatments for the sleep apnea. Well, he didn't know that his job wouldn't cover it - so the bills fell on him... and it was like 20k or something.

 

Thank God, he lost the weight and testing for the diabetes is negative and he no longer is on high blood pressure meds.

 

I'm a freedom advocate.

 

 

Freedom also includes the consequences that come from excersizing said freedom.

 

 

What I'm not for is taking away freedom on order to prevent possibilities and outcomes others may not agree with. That sucks for him, but in the end he could have prevented it if he chose to.

[Gloria25]

I'm a freedom advocate.

 

 

Freedom also includes the consequences that come from excersizing said freedom.

 

 

What I'm not for is taking away freedom on order to prevent possibilities and outcomes others may not agree with. That sucks for him, but in the end he could have prevented it if he chose to.

 

Well, then what about this thing about "Universal Healthcare"?

 

Does it mean that we are gonna foot the bill for people who don't take care of themselves? I mean it's no surprise that Americans are heavier than people in other countries.

 

Some say that the intent of Obamacare was to get people treatment before they get worst, but IMO, obesity is a good example of how we can't make laws to force people to take care of themselves, and when/if they come forward for treatment, they'll probably get it on the dime of others when they should be putting down the hamburger and running a mile.

[OwMyEyeball]

Suicide is an abrupt, immediate and largely unexpected end to one's life. It's also among the most tragic events to befall a family and community. There is a "recovery", but most survivors are left with scars they will carry for life. Some even go on to to escape their pain in similar fashion - the horror continues.

 

"Letting oneself go" to the extent they vegetate is Major Depression and should be treated with the utmost seriousness.

 

Anything in between, while it still may serious, is temporary and can be addressed in some pretty basic ways. It's an impermanent state. It's a slump. Slumps can be recovered from. It's part of the human experience - everyone has them, though some do better jobs than others at concealing their misery.

 

I would never, even in my darkest moments, recommend someone commit suicide.

[BC1980]

Yes but some choices have an effect on others such as when the big medical bill comes. Most of us don't have thousands of dollars to pay for a hospital bill and that money has to come from somewhere because the doctors and hospitals need to get paid for their services. By law no one can be turned away at the emergency room no matter what choices they made to get in the shape they are in.

 

I'm a cardiac nurse, and at least 75% of my patients either caused or greatly contributed to their health issues from obesity, smoking, not taking their medicines, uncontrolled diabetes and blood pressure that lead to other problems, the list goes on. I think 75% is probably a safe guess because it's pretty rare to have a patient come due to bad genetics or bad luck. Those are a rarity. Just today, I took care of a lady who had a heart attack, and the husband was bringing her fried chicken to eat. Do you think she cared?

 

I guess you could say these people are slowly killing themselves, but it's their choice. Unfortunately, the choices these people make affect everyone because hospitals are constantly stuck with bills that patients don't or can't pay. You would be shocked to learn how much money a hospital absorbs because they admit so many people with no insurance or insurance like Medicare/Medicaid that pays very little. All of this affects the fact that people get pennies for raises, and they slash the staffing. Anyway, I know that was a little off topic, but you could argue that a lot of people are slowly hastening their death.

[todreaminblue]

edit delete...deb

Edited October 30, 2014 by todreaminblue

[Darren2013]

I'm a cardiac nurse, and at least 75% of my patients either caused or greatly contributed to their health issues from obesity, smoking, not taking their medicines, uncontrolled diabetes and blood pressure that lead to other problems, the list goes on. I think 75% is probably a safe guess because it's pretty rare to have a patient come due to bad genetics or bad luck. Those are a rarity. Just today, I took care of a lady who had a heart attack, and the husband was bringing her fried chicken to eat. Do you think she cared?

 

I guess you could say these people are slowly killing themselves, but it's their choice. Unfortunately, the choices these people make affect everyone because hospitals are constantly stuck with bills that patients don't or can't pay. You would be shocked to learn how much money a hospital absorbs because they admit so many people with no insurance or insurance like Medicare/Medicaid that pays very little. All of this affects the fact that people get pennies for raises, and they slash the staffing. Anyway, I know that was a little off topic, but you could argue that a lot of people are slowly hastening their death.

 

 

No it wasn't off topic really. I think you made my point better than I could. It just goes to show how indirect suicide of indirect self destructive behavior costs other people lots of money. Even a failed direct suicide attempt is going to be costly. So I guess there's not much that can be done. Even if we did change the laws and found some way for hospitals not to give treatment to folks who got sick because of their own self destructive choices and just let them die in the streets someone has to pay for their burial. If they do not have a penny to their name then that means the money has to come from other sources. Nothing in this world is free not even our own dead bodies.

[Taramere]

No it wasn't off topic really. I think you made my point better than I could. It just goes to show how indirect suicide of indirect self destructive behavior costs other people lots of money. Even a failed direct suicide attempt is going to be costly. So I guess there's not much that can be done. Even if we did change the laws and found some way for hospitals not to give treatment to folks who got sick because of their own self destructive choices and just let them die in the streets someone has to pay for their burial. If they do not have a penny to their name then that means the money has to come from other sources. Nothing in this world is free not even our own dead bodies.

 

Perhaps having a bit more concern about people who are struggling with depression, or doing a bit to try to help them cope - or even just refraining from making things even worse for them by churning out negative judgements would be a few options in terms of "what can be done?"

 

I realise that sometimes people are just terminally depressed, have already received a lot of supports etc etc...but it's not always the case. For a lot of people, depression and suicidal ideation is a relatively short term condition that they will get through with some support. If we're churning along towards societies that sneer at concepts like empathy and emotional support, then you are going to see a continuing rise of people who make these poor life choices.

 

Who knows? At some point if you get a few bad knocks in quick succession, you might become one of them yourself. Compassion might not be a panacea, but it helps...and I'm damn sure it helps more than curt commentary about people who are depressed but who refuse to take the economical step of just putting a gun to their head ever will. And on the subject of destructive choices - I think it's a pity that anybody would choose to come onto a board like this, on which regularly provides support for people who are sometimes in quite a bad way, and devalue the lives of people like that in such a casual manner.

[Darren2013]

Perhaps having a bit more concern about people who are struggling with depression, or doing a bit to try to help them cope - or even just refraining from making things even worse for them by churning out negative judgements would be a few options in terms of "what can be done?"

 

I realise that sometimes people are just terminally depressed, have already received a lot of supports etc etc...but it's not always the case. For a lot of people, depression and suicidal ideation is a relatively short term condition that they will get through with some support. If we're churning along towards societies that sneer at concepts like empathy and emotional support, then you are going to see a continuing rise of people who make these poor life choices.

 

Who knows? At some point if you get a few bad knocks in quick succession, you might become one of them yourself. Compassion might not be a panacea, but it helps...and I'm damn sure it helps more than curt commentary about people who are depressed but who refuse to take the economical step of just putting a gun to their head ever will. And on the subject of destructive choices - I think it's a pity that anybody would choose to come onto a board like this, on which regularly provides support for people who are sometimes in quite a bad way, and devalue the lives of people like that in such a casual manner.

 

 

I am already going through more than a few bad knocks. You know nothing about me and I can honestly say I don't want or need compassion from strangers. If you tell me that I am putting a financial burden on society by letting myself go I do internalize that and maybe it becomes an incentive for me to either get busy living or dying.

[TigerLilly78]

I really do wonder how many who come here and put down over weight people so very badly under the vail of "health" issues concerns smoke..would they also belittle and degrage a smoker as badely? I think not ive never seen one treated as bad here on LS...but then again even if they did smoke there prob not gonna admit it....lmao

[Taramere]

If you tell me that I am putting a financial burden on society by letting myself go I do internalize that and maybe it becomes an incentive for me to either get busy living or dying.

 

No, I won't tell you that. Because while it might be a nice movie quote, real life doesn't tend to be as simple as that. As people just getting busy living or dying. I think now is the time for you to develop compassion for people feeling the way you do, and for yourself too. To realise that it's not as easy to get through this time as "get busy living" and not as impossible as "get busy dying."

 

People often acquire a huge amount of wisdom during times like the times you're going through...and maybe at some point in the future they can put that wisdom to use in terms of helping other people. Life isn't just about either being a contributor or being a burden. People fluctuate between the giving and taking role all the time. When you get through this you will be able to contribute something valuable - as will other people feeling the way you do just now. Do not write yourself off.

[Robert Z]

Sin taxes are the solution. If you tax people as they go - as they smoke [which is done now but the money doesn't go towards health care], or engage in dangerous activities, or sit around eating sugar and fat and fast food - then they can let themselves go or break their necks skiing and we don't all have to pay for it. They will have paid for it over the course of their life through their purchasing decisions.

 

People let themselves go when they stop caring about life. They may not be trying to commit suicide but they don't care enough about living. Been there. And my ex wife was trying to help me along. She knew I was dying and doing everything she could to help. Not murder mind you, just offering her assistance.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Robert Z

[Darren2013]

Actually I wouldn't mind paying a certain junk food tax. Maybe it should be factored in as a default setting and those who take care of their body gets greater tax refund at the end of the year than those who don't. So yeah go ahead and tax me and I will pay for my medical bill that's coming later over the course of a lifetime.