"I don't know what women want"

[ThaWholigan]

If you don't know what you have to offer a woman, or you have nothing to offer, this can be problematic. Of course, many women want different things, but there is a baseline that you have to offer, particularly if you are mid-20s and upwards:

 

1. Have a f*cking life

 

No, seriously. Get one. This is the most important bit. Nobody wants to be the center of your universe or the spot on your couch (Sheldon). Even if you're naive enough to think that a woman can't clock that you need her more than she even likes you, she will clock. And nobody wants that pressure.

 

"How do I get a life?"

 

Simple. Have a goal. A journey. Something important to you that you put before having a girlfriend. What do you want to be in your life? An artist or musician? A teacher? A cop? An engineer or scientist? An entrepreneur? What drives you? When you find out, go and do that. It doesn't even have to be something that makes you super rich. Supplement yourself with all the tools you need to go and do that. What you'll find is that your time will be occupied by this and you'll have less energy to wallow about how much you need a girlfriend to make you happy - you'll have something that is making you happy already.

 

And the best bit? You're more likely to be able to keep a woman this way. She wants to aid you, to be a part of your adventure - not to be the be all and end all. She has her own goals most likely. She wants to go on a journey with you, not to be your journey.

 

2. Be emotionally intelligent

 

This ties into the above, but having something going on in your life doesn't mean that it's smooth sailing. Dating is tough for everyone and this is still very pertinent. It means you're going to have to be resilient and you're also going to need to learn how to manage your emotional reactions, particularly where rejection is concerned.

 

Obviously one way is to stop investing in girls too much, too early. Sometimes girls just aren't going to be into you for whatever reason (not attracted physically; BBD; personality clash etc), and others will be neutral or ambiguous at first. Now, depending on how you find it easiest to date (which will take some experimenting), you're going to have to keep it somewhat light in the beginning. Remember, rule number 1 - be occupied from time to time, having your own life and doing your own sh*t. This way, you're not bogged down in worry about whether the girl likes you or not. If it's not meant to be, it's just not. You'll find it easier to move on.

 

You can also have multiple girls you want to date or whom you have interest in. In this way, the dreaded-but-mostly-ficticious "friendzone" can be useful. If you're keeping it light, and she wants to be friends, then f*ck it. Be her friend. She might use you for the ego boost or whatever, you can use her to boost your social circle and meet more girls - and actually, a good portion of the time, you might actually become good friends or at least good acquaintances. But this is only if you have other things going on and other girls to date, instead of fixating on one.

 

The key to using emotional intelligence with the above scenarios is simply focusing on the now/the moment. Dwelling on the past or the possible future will get you stuck in your head and your emotions. Once you learn to do that, you will have greater control over your reactions. It will still suck to get rejected, it always does usually. But it won't matter to you, it will be a nuisance instead of this hugely depressing "Ugh, got rejected again, life sucks :(" feeling.

 

3. Fine tune your character.

 

Finally, this again ties into rule 1 which is all important as you're figuring out more about you, but instead this is more on how you relate to women. This includes looks and appearance, demeanor and presence, how you communicate and being socially aware.

 

Obviously, you don't need to be told that being a tad more athletic would be useful. It's certainly something I'm working on! But there's a bit more to it than that. How you dress can be very important aswell (don't have to be metro about it, just classic men's fashion will do!). Has to complement you and how you want to look. Girls will look at things like that. I can't tell you how many times girls in the past lost interest in my appearance because of my f*cking shoes .

 

Focusing more on relating though, if you have a life for yourself (remember, rule number 1), you will have more to be confident about. This will come across in your demeanor too. A confident man has more poise, more presence and is more noticeable to women. Have seen it so many times. In my own case, I've always been an awkward guy, but once I am relaxed and get into a natural cadence with girls, I tend to get more positive reactions.

 

Communicating is difficult for some, especially if you're autistic like me. What I did was learn how to flirt a little bit. That could just be light teasing, a bit of banter and in-jokes. It's still tough for me, but I do it and it's fun when I do. It just depends on how you talk and your kind of humor too. If you're a wordy intellectual dude, use that. Girls who like that kinda sh*t will gravitate towards you if you're fun with it. Obviously be capable of having a more serious, deeper conversation, then you're able to be multidynamic when you talk to people. Having different interests and passions will also help there. Above all, try to be engaging. Body language helps there, using your eyes, smiling, appropriate gestures etc.

 

And lastly, be socially aware. Be able to read another person's body language or read between the lines of what they're saying. This is tough - and like I said, I'm autistic so this has always been hard for me - but it's an important and worthwhile skill to learn. Buy books on this sh*t if you have to, that what I did. Learning to read people and what they say will come in handy with girls. You'll know if she wants you to go away or she wants you to go on a date with her. You'll know by the way she smiles at you or stares at you when you're not clocking and looks away blushing when you turn to her if she likes you or not.

 

 

That's it, I had to type this quickly so I'm not sure how coherent it is, but this is a baseline that I myself go by at the moment. It works for me - I'm not even trying to date and I do occasionally get interest from girls. It should work for anyone who's at a loss. The key is personally not focusing on just getting a GF, but getting a complete life, which is why rule number 1 is the most important.

[insert_name]

...but is it worth it? Is the question I find myself asking when wheeling out these laundry lists of character traits that a man must possess in order to prove deserving of a woman.

[normal person]

...but is it worth it? Is the question I find myself asking when wheeling out these laundry lists of character traits that a man must possess in order to prove deserving of a woman.

 

It depends on how badly you want a woman or a fruitful life. If it's not that important to you, there's no need to bother. Or, seemingly, be alive.

[ThaWholigan]

Depends.

 

Are you doing it for you? Or are you doing it to get a woman?

 

Or both?

[serial muse]

A great summary of how to be an attractive human being.

[Pyro]

If you don't know what you have to offer a woman, or you have nothing to offer, this can be problematic. Of course, many women want different things, but there is a baseline that you have to offer, particularly if you are mid-20s and upwards:

 

1. Have a f*cking life

 

No, seriously. Get one. This is the most important bit. Nobody wants to be the center of your universe or the spot on your couch (Sheldon). Even if you're naive enough to think that a woman can't clock that you need her more than she even likes you, she will clock. And nobody wants that pressure.

 

"How do I get a life?"

 

Simple. Have a goal. A journey. Something important to you that you put before having a girlfriend. What do you want to be in your life? An artist or musician? A teacher? A cop? An engineer or scientist? An entrepreneur? What drives you? When you find out, go and do that. It doesn't even have to be something that makes you super rich. Supplement yourself with all the tools you need to go and do that. What you'll find is that your time will be occupied by this and you'll have less energy to wallow about how much you need a girlfriend to make you happy - you'll have something that is making you happy already.

 

And the best bit? You're more likely to be able to keep a woman this way. She wants to aid you, to be a part of your adventure - not to be the be all and end all. She has her own goals most likely. She wants to go on a journey with you, not to be your journey.

 

2. Be emotionally intelligent

 

This ties into the above, but having something going on in your life doesn't mean that it's smooth sailing. Dating is tough for everyone and this is still very pertinent. It means you're going to have to be resilient and you're also going to need to learn how to manage your emotional reactions, particularly where rejection is concerned.

 

Obviously one way is to stop investing in girls too much, too early. Sometimes girls just aren't going to be into you for whatever reason (not attracted physically; BBD; personality clash etc), and others will be neutral or ambiguous at first. Now, depending on how you find it easiest to date (which will take some experimenting), you're going to have to keep it somewhat light in the beginning. Remember, rule number 1 - be occupied from time to time, having your own life and doing your own sh*t. This way, you're not bogged down in worry about whether the girl likes you or not. If it's not meant to be, it's just not. You'll find it easier to move on.

 

You can also have multiple girls you want to date or whom you have interest in. In this way, the dreaded-but-mostly-ficticious "friendzone" can be useful. If you're keeping it light, and she wants to be friends, then f*ck it. Be her friend. She might use you for the ego boost or whatever, you can use her to boost your social circle and meet more girls - and actually, a good portion of the time, you might actually become good friends or at least good acquaintances. But this is only if you have other things going on and other girls to date, instead of fixating on one.

 

The key to using emotional intelligence with the above scenarios is simply focusing on the now/the moment. Dwelling on the past or the possible future will get you stuck in your head and your emotions. Once you learn to do that, you will have greater control over your reactions. It will still suck to get rejected, it always does usually. But it won't matter to you, it will be a nuisance instead of this hugely depressing "Ugh, got rejected again, life sucks :(" feeling.

 

3. Fine tune your character.

 

Finally, this again ties into rule 1 which is all important as you're figuring out more about you, but instead this is more on how you relate to women. This includes looks and appearance, demeanor and presence, how you communicate and being socially aware.

 

Obviously, you don't need to be told that being a tad more athletic would be useful. It's certainly something I'm working on! But there's a bit more to it than that. How you dress can be very important aswell (don't have to be metro about it, just classic men's fashion will do!). Has to complement you and how you want to look. Girls will look at things like that. I can't tell you how many times girls in the past lost interest in my appearance because of my f*cking shoes .

 

Focusing more on relating though, if you have a life for yourself (remember, rule number 1), you will have more to be confident about. This will come across in your demeanor too. A confident man has more poise, more presence and is more noticeable to women. Have seen it so many times. In my own case, I've always been an awkward guy, but once I am relaxed and get into a natural cadence with girls, I tend to get more positive reactions.

 

Communicating is difficult for some, especially if you're autistic like me. What I did was learn how to flirt a little bit. That could just be light teasing, a bit of banter and in-jokes. It's still tough for me, but I do it and it's fun when I do. It just depends on how you talk and your kind of humor too. If you're a wordy intellectual dude, use that. Girls who like that kinda sh*t will gravitate towards you if you're fun with it. Obviously be capable of having a more serious, deeper conversation, then you're able to be multidynamic when you talk to people. Having different interests and passions will also help there. Above all, try to be engaging. Body language helps there, using your eyes, smiling, appropriate gestures etc.

 

And lastly, be socially aware. Be able to read another person's body language or read between the lines of what they're saying. This is tough - and like I said, I'm autistic so this has always been hard for me - but it's an important and worthwhile skill to learn. Buy books on this sh*t if you have to, that what I did. Learning to read people and what they say will come in handy with girls. You'll know if she wants you to go away or she wants you to go on a date with her. You'll know by the way she smiles at you or stares at you when you're not clocking and looks away blushing when you turn to her if she likes you or not.

 

 

That's it, I had to type this quickly so I'm not sure how coherent it is, but this is a baseline that I myself go by at the moment. It works for me - I'm not even trying to date and I do occasionally get interest from girls. It should work for anyone who's at a loss. The key is personally not focusing on just getting a GF, but getting a complete life, which is why rule number 1 is the most important.

 

well said Wholigan

[Lernaean_Hydra]

...but is it worth it? Is the question I find myself asking when wheeling out these laundry lists of character traits that a man must possess in order to prove deserving of a woman.

 

It's not about "proving" you "deserve" anyone. It's about being the type of person other people want to be around, plain and simple. As far as whether improving yourself is worth it? That all depends on whether you ever want to be in a relationship or not and how much value you place on companionship with a partner you desire.

[Dontfindme]

Good read! I'd love to read the "I don't know what men want" version too.

[Keenly]

I'll just be who I am, and if I die alone, then many women missed out on what could have been a happy and fruitful life / relationship.

 

 

I have no problem with that.

[Dontfindme]

Have boobs.

 

Check, and check! Prince Charming here I am!

[Badsingularity]

They want you to be and act attractive.

[kolleamm]

How about liking someone for who they are, where's that on the list?

[BlueIris]

One thing that I NEED (and always have) in a man/partner is verbal, conversational skills and chemistry, that we like talking to each other, the conversational clickety-click. It isn’t mentioned much here on LS but it’s an absolute necessity for me, and trumps lots of other traits. I just ended it with one man who was “more” on the list of traits most often mentioned here, to choose a man with less on that classic list, but our conversation is terrific. We can talk, ponder and laugh for hours.

 

Another thing that is a must, and always has been, is positive energy, happiness. I don't date men who mope or see themselves as pained, victimized or suffering in general. The scale of his thinking has to tip at least a bit toward the happy and positive/optimistic thinking.

[GemmaUK]

How about liking someone for who they are, where's that on the list?

 

It's in there..you can't see it is all.

 

 

 

 

It's about liking yourself...the most important person in your whole damn life.

[jay1983]

I'll just be who I am, and if I die alone, then many women missed out on what could have been a happy and fruitful life / relationship.

 

 

I have no problem with that.

 

This would be very credible if you weren't always complaining about being single.

[Taramere]

...but is it worth it? Is the question I find myself asking when wheeling out these laundry lists of character traits that a man must possess in order to prove deserving of a woman.

 

Well let's put it this way. Say a woman decides she wants to land a man. So she goes on a healthy diet in order to look her best, goes on an exercise regime for the same purpose, starts taking more interest in fashion and her overall appearance. She decides that traditional sounding or not, perhaps if she became a better cook she would land a man, so she develops her skill in that area. She focuses on making her home a more beautiful place, develops various other accomplishments etc etc.

 

Let's say at the end of all of that, she still doesn't have a man. Has she not gained lots of valuable things in the process of trying to be a more attractive human being? Often people take up a new hobby because they want to impress somebody, and then somewhere along the line, if they find they have a talent for it, the person they originally wanted to impress becomes irrelevant. The talent itself becomes their passion.

 

Nothing ThaWholigan is advocating is going to make a person's life poorer. With or without a partner at the end of it all, the things he's advocating can only enrich a person's life.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Taramere

[ThaWholigan]

How about liking someone for who they are, where's that on the list?

 

I'll just be who I am, and if I die alone, then many women missed out on what could have been a happy and fruitful life / relationship.

 

 

I have no problem with that.

 

Being who you are - or being yourself - is perfectly fine. But the question is, who are you? And all that sh-t I just said in my OP - are you doing it for you?

 

I am in the process of all the above, but I do it for me. That list of goals is above the goal of getting a GF, that's the point I'm trying to make. None of this has anything to do with "changing yourself" to be something you aren't. Its to do with augmenting who you already are. Would you rather continue to grow or remain stagnant?

 

The overriding arch of the OP was that attracting women is a byproduct of the above, and that's pretty much what women look for. Even if you aren't there, if you're working on those things, they will respect your ambition.

 

Its not about not being who you are. Its being the best you. As corny and cheesy as it sounds.

[Keenly]

This would be very credible if you weren't always complaining about being single.

 

Accepting being alone and having a desire for a mate are not mutually exclusive.

[xxoo]

...but is it worth it? Is the question I find myself asking when wheeling out these laundry lists of character traits that a man must possess in order to prove deserving of a woman.

 

I thought his post was the polar opposite of a laundry list. He didn't say what kind of life to have....just have one. It provides the zing we are looking for in attraction. I can't imagine clocking 80 years of existence without pursuing dreams and taking on challenges, nor could I imagine wanting to live with someone who didn't do so.

 

Be emotionally intelligent. Social skills are absolutely necessary for quality human connection.

 

Have good character: self-explanatory.

[OwMyEyeball]

Good post.

 

This serves as a helpful reminder to my own belief that meaningful relationships are a byproduct of pursuing higher purposes, not a purpose unto themselves.

[normal person]

I'll just be who I am, and if I die alone, then many women missed out on what could have been a happy and fruitful life / relationship.

 

 

I have no problem with that.

 

 

I sort of admire your integrity but I can't help wonder if it's a bit misplaced. When I say the following, I'm not talking about you specifically, so don't feel attacked:

 

Isn't it a bit hasty to assume you've got everything figured out, that you're perfect/fine/dignified/principled enough "as is" and that you don't need to improve? Let's say you never challenge your own belief system or yourself in general, and it yields little results. If you can't then step back and consider compromising something comfortable or familiar about yourself to get something you'd rather have, isn't that kind of a problem? Doesn't that sort of forfeit your right to complain?

 

This is an odd thought, but maybe part of our intrinsic value as people isn't how we please ourselves solely and comfortably, but how we can step away and mesh with, or even enrich our surroundings and other people. I can't tell you how many times in my life I thought I was right or principled about something only to be thoroughly humbled. I would hope the world became a slightly better place every time my younger self quit being stubborn and realized that I didn't have everything figured out.

 

Reality checks should lead to compromises, and I would personally consider persistent singledom despite desire for a partner a reality check. It's sort of a philosophical leap, but if people think they're idealized and they don't have to reconsider themselves within the context of other people, maybe that's precisely the attitude that keeps them from being idealized or actually getting those other people. Just my two cents.

 

 

How about liking someone for who they are, where's that on the list?

 

You're assuming that the person in question is actually someone people want to be with. You can't give them the benefit of the doubt in this case.

[sweetjasmine]

The overriding arch of the OP was that attracting women is a byproduct of the above, and that's pretty much what women look for. Even if you aren't there, if you're working on those things, they will respect your ambition.

 

I think the simplest way to put it is that people who have their sh-t together are looking for partners who will join them in navigating whatever life throws their way, not dependents.

 

Lots of people seem to make all these assumptions about what long-term relationships look like. The reality is that you can't have a healthy long-term relationship unless both partners have the traits you listed in your OP. And being able to grow, learn, and adapt is crucial. "This is me, and I'm never changing a single thing for anyone, ever," is the kind of attitude that destroys relationships or prevents them from going anywhere.

 

Its not about not being who you are. Its being the best you. As corny and cheesy as it sounds.

 

Yup. And I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to improve their lives, regardless of their relationship status.

[irc333]

Interestingly enough, perhaps this is geographic, most where I live would take issue with #1 as most of the people I know in my area are pretty much attached at the hip. ESP. if they have children.

 

I know this one woman, doesn't like doing much of anything but be a homebody now that she's married. Her and her husband pretty much spend all their time together under the same roof.

 

Now if you're referring to having "You're own life" that example, of the aforementioned couple I talked about and many couples is the "Man Cave" and her sewing room. That's pretty much how far apart they are from each other.

 

If their lucky, she'll hang out across the street with another wife or something while he mows the lawn.

 

Is that "having your own life, yes or no?" Depends on who you ask.

 

I know this one couple, been together for 5 years, worked together COME To work together and go home together and of course live together! She even posts little love notes on his wall every so often. LOL. Some may consider that "up each others arse", but hey, perhaps NOT having your OWN life may not be how they roll, and they are okay with that.

[Phoe]

Accepting being alone and having a desire for a mate are not mutually exclusive.

 

Exactly.

 

I'm good at being alone. It's what I've always done, and I'm okay with it.

 

But I would LOVE to have a life with someone.

[ascendotum]

How about liking someone for who they are, where's that on the list?

That's what women expect.

Its a good OP and great advice, but the only issue I have with it is that these sorts of 'so why should someone be with you, what do you bring to the table and it needs to be a lot more than being a decent/nice person' themes directed at men is the inference that 'liking someone for who they are' while is a basic desire for most women is not seen as being satisfactory for men, in the 21st century age of equality. The subtext is somewhat, women are the prize and guys have to win her over by being better in life'...that women expect to date up.

 

If the 'ordinary life average joe' is happy to date 'ordinary life average jane' (and there are a lot of both out there), then I don't think he should be confronted with a 'so..what do you bring to the table' type interview by the women. I can't argue though that if the 'ordinary life average joe' is struggling in finding women then...bottom line is he needs to make yourself more desirable, just like in the job market even if he thinks its unfair.

 

If the guy is average joe but wants a sexy cutie, then definitely he has to up his appeal with other facets to his life. The university educated career women I worked with pretty much all chose guys who also had university qualifications (*). The few women who didn't, had bfs who owned & ran successful businesses or were very handsome well built macho men. There was something else to compensate and make them over look the fact the guy wasn't as academically qualified.

 

 

* more so than the equivalent guys, so I guess someone is missing out. University guys who dated down academically also offset that by having cuter/slimmer/more sub/fem gfs, so physical desirability substituted there too.