"I don't know what women want"

[Phoe]

I think this is a great post and can easily be applied to both genders.

 

I agree.

 

Women should do the same.

 

I can't imagine living life in a way that made it so that I brought NOTHING to the table. That I'd add nothing but a warm body placeholder to someone's life. If I didn't focus on being the best I can, then who would ever want me?

[insert_name]

It depends on how badly you want a woman or a fruitful life. If it's not that important to you, there's no need to bother. Or, seemingly, be alive.

 

Wait til Tesla hears that his dedication to the field of science was a waste of time because he wasn't out chasing tail

 

There is more to life than women, a lot of men have been conditioned to think otherwise though, unfortunately.

[insert_name]

You shouldn't be doing those things to get women. You should already be doing them.

 

For yourself- of course. In the context of this thread though its about doing it to win over a woman. Making any changes to your life or character with the specific intention of trying to win a woman is a very slippery slope, IMO.

 

You have to be the person that comes naturally to you and if women do not appreciate that then in time honoured tradition you should have two words for them, as the saying goes

[insert_name]

It's not about "proving" you "deserve" anyone. It's about being the type of person other people want to be around, plain and simple. As far as whether improving yourself is worth it? That all depends on whether you ever want to be in a relationship or not and how much value you place on companionship with a partner you desire.

 

I don't think those traits are synonymous with being a tolerable human being that others want to spend time with. The emotional intelligence bit helps, of course.

 

You can be a nice and decent person without those traits and that should be enough not to be completely shunned by society, if it isn't then what kind of world are we building here exactly?

[xxoo]

Wait til Tesla hears that his dedication to the field of science was a waste of time because he wasn't out chasing tail

 

There is more to life than women, a lot of men have been conditioned to think otherwise though, unfortunately.

 

This post proves the point.

 

DON'T chase tail.

 

DO be an interesting person.

 

Women were probably throwing themselves at Tesla. His celibacy was his own eccentricity (see Wholigan's point #2).

[Woggle]

I don't think individual women are confusing but men do get a lot of contradictory messages about how we should be with women so I understand why it causes a lot of guys to scratch their heads. One week society is telling us one thing and then the next week it is telling us another.

[ThaWholigan]

For yourself- of course. In the context of this thread though its about doing it to win over a woman.

 

No it isn't. Again, the point was entirely missed. The point of the very first thing I say "which is have a life", entails having a life for yourself, and not placing the happiness of your existence on women.

 

It tends to be a byproduct of having a productive life overall.

 

Making any changes to your life or character with the specific intention of trying to win a woman is a very slippery slope, IMO.

 

Again, that's the point. Doing these things will generally tend to attract women BUT the point is you have to them for you.

[Els]

Sounds like good advice to me, and I don't understand the complaints about it.

 

I mean, let's say you live in an alternate universe where you don't actually have to 'do all that' to get a woman. So does that mean that you will choose to NOT have a life, NOT be emotionally intelligent and NOT have good character? Just because you don't need it to get a relationship?

 

The point is that you're going to have to do all that for yourself anyway, if you want any hope of a decent life. Getting a relationship out of it is a nice side bonus.

[insert_name]

Oh, come on. Ordinary Life Jane also has to have good character, a job, hobbies, friends, and so on. There are men who aren't just looking to date a pretty girl who makes them look good, and feel good.

 

If I clung to a man like glue, and didn't enjoy life outside of him being there, how long do you think he would stick around? I'm seeing dust in my mind, as I type.

 

I think you might actually be surprised. Men and women prize different characteristics as studies have proven at various times. Whilst women find neediness unattractive I am sure there is a large percentage of men who would love nothing more than a woman whose life is closely entwined with his own. Women are more naturally drawn to playing games that centre on how badly a man desires her and is able to resist her, whereas the older a man gets the more he wants a straightforward life so a woman who will be by his side more often than not becomes more attractive. For example pretty much all of the couples that I know spend their lives in each others pockets, its not the men who are driving that, its their wives being very homely characters with not a lot else going on, just their husband.

 

Men are more hung up on visual attraction so finding their wives attractive has a very high importance, so the analog of that list, transcribed for women, would pretty much be:

 

1. Don't be fat

 

2. Don't be fat

 

3. Don't be fat

 

The problem is, as other posters have touched on, that society loves telling men what they need to do to be accepted by women, yet you dare not tell women to match a man's ambition by bringing good looks to the table in return. In fact its the opposite, we are seeing the 'big is beautiful' state of mind to encourage men to accept women for how they are whilst men must always improve themselves in order to compete for women.

 

This is why I hammer the point about whether its worth a man changing himself in order to try and be successful with women. Our culture very much promotes the ideology that women are a prize to be won and the pinnacle of a man's achievements in life will always be convincing a woman to be his life partner.

 

Whereas, on the other hand. a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle..........apparently!

[Els]

If you met a woman who shared those hobbies, surely she'd like them.

 

The problem may be meeting women and connecting with them if all of your time is spent with screens or at male dominated activities. For example, my husband is into motorcycles, which is male dominated, but they also have festivals, kid outreach, charity events, etc, which involve the greater community. The hobby is a launch to connect with the community, including women.

 

Right. Plus women who enjoy these hobbies and like guys who share their hobbies (I'm one of them) typically still have the other requirements that Wholigan stated as well. Nobody wants a guy whose only (relatively) positive trait is that he's a great MTG player.

[ThaWholigan]

Point still being missed by some

 

Do you honestly think that women don't have to meet us halfway? Of course they do!!! The ones that don't feel like they do tend to struggle half the time aswell. This is not an exercise in telling men what to do just to win over women while women sit on a pedestal filing their nails not having to do a thing. Most women have to have something of a life aswell. Most of what I wrote could easily apply to women aswell, and a lot of women do step up to the plate, contrary to some of the sh*t being said here - because they also want to have a life of their own.

 

How have any of you taken "have your own life" as "do all this stuff to win over women"? That would be counterproductive to the entire process of having your own life. I haven't even told you what kind of life to have . That's up to you, as long as it's for you and it's full.

[GravityMan]

TheWholigan, your post oughta be stickied somewhere.

 

I find it sad that some single men don't get what you said. None of it is rocket science or complicated in any way.

[MissBee]

...but is it worth it? Is the question I find myself asking when wheeling out these laundry lists of character traits that a man must possess in order to prove deserving of a woman.

 

I think a large takeaway of the list is, which you seem to miss, and which men who often struggle with dating seem to miss, is that this isn't just about getting a woman. These are things every well-adjusted person should be doing ANYWAY! It's not a means to an end of merely doing these things to get someone.

 

I'm a woman who has a life, has friends, has goals and dreams, has career aspirations, is in grad school, has a job, has hobbies, travels, cooks, reads books, exercises, speaks 3 languages, meditates, thinks about the world, my place in it etc... ALL enriching things whose end goal are not to "get a man." A man is not related to any of this. Many of these things might make me a good gf candidate or partner for a man to have by his side and make me an interesting person who can contribute more to a relationship than a warm vagina, but whether or not I have a man I will still do these things and want to do them and I don't do them to get someone.

 

That's the major point. GETTING A WOMAN CANNOT BE YOUR SINGLE-MINDED GOAL IN LIFE! Most people want a partner but there is a huge discrepancy in thought pattern between folks who have lives, goals, emotional intelligence, etc and who consider a partner as ICING on the cake of their lives and those who clearly only ever do anything only superficially as an ends to getting someone and where their mind is CONSUMED by getting a relationship and where it is THE CAKE ITSELF.

[Keenly]

I think you might actually be surprised. Men and women prize different characteristics as studies have proven at various times. Whilst women find neediness unattractive I am sure there is a large percentage of men who would love nothing more than a woman whose life is closely entwined with his own. Women are more naturally drawn to playing games that centre on how badly a man desires her and is able to resist her, whereas the older a man gets the more he wants a straightforward life so a woman who will be by his side more often than not becomes more attractive. For example pretty much all of the couples that I know spend their lives in each others pockets, its not the men who are driving that, its their wives being very homely characters with not a lot else going on, just their husband.

 

Men are more hung up on visual attraction so finding their wives attractive has a very high importance, so the analog of that list, transcribed for women, would pretty much be:

 

1. Don't be fat

 

2. Don't be fat

 

3. Don't be fat

 

The problem is, as other posters have touched on, that society loves telling men what they need to do to be accepted by women, yet you dare not tell women to match a man's ambition by bringing good looks to the table in return. In fact its the opposite, we are seeing the 'big is beautiful' state of mind to encourage men to accept women for how they are whilst men must always improve themselves in order to compete for women.

 

This is why I hammer the point about whether its worth a man changing himself in order to try and be successful with women. Our culture very much promotes the ideology that women are a prize to be won and the pinnacle of a man's achievements in life will always be convincing a woman to be his life partner.

 

Whereas, on the other hand. a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle..........apparently!

 

Kinda losing me here. Men need more than a pretty face and a nice body. What's upstairs?

 

 

Society tells women what to be all day every day.

[ThaWholigan]

I think a large takeaway of the list is, which you seem to miss, and which men who often struggle with dating seem to miss, is that this isn't just about getting a woman. These are things every well-adjusted person should be doing ANYWAY! It's not a means to an end of merely doing these things to get someone.

 

I'm a woman who has a life, has friends, has goals and dreams, has career aspirations, is in grad school, has a job, has hobbies, travels, cooks, reads books, exercises, speaks 3 languages, meditates, thinks about the world, my place in it etc... ALL enriching things whose end goal are not to "get a man." A man is not related to any of this. Many of these things might make me a good gf candidate or partner for a man to have by his side and make me an interesting person who can contribute more to a relationship than a warm vagina, but whether or not I have a man I will still do these things and want to do them and I don't do them to get someone.

 

That's the major point. GETTING A WOMAN CANNOT BE YOUR SINGLE-MINDED GOAL IN LIFE! Most people want a partner but there is a huge discrepancy in thought pattern between folks who have lives, goals, emotional intelligence, etc and who consider a partner as ICING on the cake of their lives and those who clearly only ever do anything only superficially as an ends to getting someone and where their mind is CONSUMED by getting a relationship and where it is THE CAKE ITSELF.

Precisely this.

 

I see dudes on here and elsewhere on the net who are DEPRESSED because they don't have a girlfriend. All I can think is that they don't have enriching lives in other aspects because they wouldn't be so depressed about not having a GF. Nobody should be that dependent, even if relationships do make you happy. You have to have a contingency plan of independence, whereby your life on your own can still fulfill you.

 

I spend a lot of time nowadays on my direction. Practicing on the piano, doing my fundraising job, self-studying, trying to learn new skills etc. Most of the time I'm multitasking - even when I post here, I'm practicing at my midi keyboard just next to my monitor. I've just recently started going out again to watch gigs, attend occasional meetups centered around my interests, and I'm also looking to put together a new set so I can start performing live again.

 

With all that going on, I don't have time or head space to be depressed about not having a GF.

[insert_name]

Point still being missed by some

 

Do you honestly think that women don't have to meet us halfway? Of course they do!!! The ones that don't feel like they do tend to struggle half the time aswell. This is not an exercise in telling men what to do just to win over women while women sit on a pedestal filing their nails not having to do a thing. Most women have to have something of a life aswell. Most of what I wrote could easily apply to women aswell, and a lot of women do step up to the plate, contrary to some of the sh*t being said here - because they also want to have a life of their own.

 

How have any of you taken "have your own life" as "do all this stuff to win over women"? That would be counterproductive to the entire process of having your own life. I haven't even told you what kind of life to have . That's up to you, as long as it's for you and it's full.

 

Sorry chief, but...

 

Of course, many women want different things, but there is a baseline that you have to offer, particularly if you are mid-20s and upwards:

 

...sounds like a directive to do the following if you want to have any chance with a woman.

 

Of course, it has to be said that at the end of the day its all bull.

There are many men who have the complete opposite traits who are successful with women and there are many men who have those traits who are unsuccessful with women.

 

Its more a case of taking women completely out of the equation and asking:

 

What kind of man do you want to be?

 

There is no right or wrong answer. Choose your path and choose it because you align yourself with those values not because you think it will result in tail. (although depending on the choice you make tail may well be a by-product of that direction).

 

Thats what we should be telling men, be the person you want to be, not the person you think women want you to be.

[Keenly]

Precisely this.

 

I see dudes on here and elsewhere on the net who are DEPRESSED because they don't have a girlfriend. All I can think is that they don't have enriching lives in other aspects because they wouldn't be so depressed about not having a GF. Nobody should be that dependent, even if relationships do make you happy. You have to have a contingency plan of independence, whereby your life on your own can still fulfill you.

 

I spend a lot of time nowadays on my direction. Practicing on the piano, doing my fundraising job, self-studying, trying to learn new skills etc. Most of the time I'm multitasking - even when I post here, I'm practicing at my midi keyboard just next to my monitor. I've just recently started going out again to watch gigs, attend occasional meetups centered around my interests, and I'm also looking to put together a new set so I can start performing live again.

 

With all that going on, I don't have time or head space to be depressed about not having a GF.

 

You ever check out the girl in the YouTube channel VKgoeswild? She's pretty damn good.

[insert_name]

Stupid thing won't let me add a line via an edit, so basically, I just wanted to add:

 

Embody the things that YOU value, not what someone else values. You will find happiness in yourself that way and if you can keep yourself happy you got no need for anything else

[MissBee]

Precisely this.

 

I see dudes on here and elsewhere on the net who are DEPRESSED because they don't have a girlfriend. All I can think is that they don't have enriching lives in other aspects because they wouldn't be so depressed about not having a GF. Nobody should be that dependent, even if relationships do make you happy. You have to have a contingency plan of independence, whereby your life on your own can still fulfill you.

 

I spend a lot of time nowadays on my direction. Practicing on the piano, doing my fundraising job, self-studying, trying to learn new skills etc. Most of the time I'm multitasking - even when I post here, I'm practicing at my midi keyboard just next to my monitor. I've just recently started going out again to watch gigs, attend occasional meetups centered around my interests, and I'm also looking to put together a new set so I can start performing live again.

 

With all that going on, I don't have time or head space to be depressed about not having a GF.

 

Riiigght!

 

I am a relationship person. I love being in a relationship. I love the companionship. I am tired of dating and want to find that "forever person" to build with. I want to be married one day. I liked the ins and outs of being a couple. However, in spite of all of that, I don't spend my time depressed or obsessed with finding a husband or bf. Neither do I act like life isn't worth living unless I am in a relationship. That's insane!

 

I have way too many other things to do. Yes from time to time I'll be like aww wish I had a bf, like on some Saturday nights when I want to just stay home and cuddle. But you know what? I don't right now, so I cook myself a yummy meal or get some wine and watch my shows on Amazon Prime and I am pleased as punch while doing this . OR I call up a gf and tell her I'm coming over let's make some cocktails and chit chat. Or I make other plans with other people. Maybe I spend 30% of the time thinking about relationships and finding my future man but the other 70% is spent thinking about my immediate goals, my classes, professional development, I have events to plan for the organization I'm on the exec board for, I think about my family, what to buy to wear to my friend's party, how much money I'm gonna need to save to go on my trip in January, I go out, I have my routine, I do tons of other shyt which I like and which occupy me.

 

In fact, sometimes being in a relationship I found I had more upsetting things to worry and think about like: we just had a fight, should I call? How are we doing? Are things okay with us? Why can't he take up all his shyt off the floor? I wish we didn't have to hang out with his annoying friend lol. Did I take my birth control, hope so. I mean...lmaooo:laugh: The strange part is that some people act like a relationship is escape to Neverland when life still continues and now you have another person to think about where what they do affects you and you them and while the good is good, when the relationship isn't going well there can be lots of anxiety and even when it's going well it requires conscious work and compromise because you're two different people. So people living to be in a relationship probably have very unrealistic ideas about relationships anyway where for them it isn't a partnership which is imperfect that you work on and build with but a sort of life vessel which they are diving into from their sinking ship of desperation and no-lifeness so think it is the promised land.

[ThaWholigan]

You ever check out the girl in the YouTube channel VKgoeswild? She's pretty damn good.

She's good. I liked her Riders Of The Storm cover.

[lollipopspot]

I think this advice is equally valid for females as for males, but ThaWholigan was just focused on trying to help out some struggling guys on here, so he wrote it to males. There's no reason why this should turn into a gender war. When I'm not doing well, I need to remind myself of exactly these things - which boil down to: have an interesting life separate from the pursuit of a partner, and develop your own character Doing exactly that actually make you more attractive to a potential partner.

 

Sure there are some guys who just want a trophy, or females who just want a warm body, or those who want some unhealthy version of a relationship. But this is sensible advice for someone who wants a quality partner or some way to live their lives in the event that they don't or aren't able to find a partner.

[Badsingularity]

She's good. I liked her Riders Of The Storm cover.

 

Her guns n roses and metallic covers are pretty awesome.

 

Back to the topic.

 

Be awesome. Women will like you.

[Rejected Rosebud]

finding their wives attractive has a very high importance, so the analog of that list, transcribed for women, would pretty much be:

 

1. Don't be fat

 

2. Don't be fat

 

3. Don't be fat

 

The problem is, as other posters have touched on, that society loves telling men what they need to do to be accepted by women, yet you dare not tell women to match a man's ambition by bringing good looks to the table in return.

 

If all a man expects from a woman, and all she brings is "good looks," that sounds like forlorn conditions for a relationship. And society does a great job of telling us women how our looks are crucial, believe me.

 

In fact its the opposite, we are seeing the 'big is beautiful' state of mind to encourage men to accept women for how they are whilst men must always improve themselves in order to compete for women.

 

I think the BBW thing is not to encourage men to like big women, but for big women to be able to like and accept themselves.

 

All the things in the OP are qualities of a well rounded person. A good FRIEND to others as well as probably a good mate. They are bringing a LOT to any table they're at. Of course if it's a man women will find all that attractive, and if it's a woman, a man who values more things than good looks and a thin body will find her attractive. (physical attraction is a must, IMO, but not enough).

[Taramere]

Men are more hung up on visual attraction so finding their wives attractive has a very high importance, so the analog of that list, transcribed for women, would pretty much be:

 

1. Don't be fat

 

2. Don't be fat

 

3. Don't be fat

 

 

There's your difference then. To pick up and run with that generalisation...women are looking for a partner with the personal qualities that will make a relationship work in the long term. Men are looking for somebody who isn't fat. When the relationship doesn't work out, women analyse the situation exhaustively to figure out why the two of them weren't compatible. Men (if they were the ones who got dumped) say "what the ****do women want?"

 

It's a shock to find out that the person who isn't fat might see themselves as something more than just "a woman who isn't fat" - who has worked hard on being something more than just "not fat"...and maybe wants to be with a partner who recognises and appreciates her for being something more than "not fat".

 

The problem is, as other posters have touched on, that society loves telling men what they need to do to be accepted by women, yet you dare not tell women to match a man's ambition by bringing good looks to the table in return.

 

Would men feel better, do you suppose, if they were given a laundry list that comprised of nothing more than "don't be fat"?

 

I'd be really surprised by any man who has ever been married or in a long term relationship and whose laundry list is comprised of nothing more than "don't be fat". Most people would learn, from a failed relationship, a few things about what they don't want. And from that negative stage, they would eventually move on to establish what they do want.

 

So "I don't want somebody who cheats" becomes "I want somebody who is loyal."

 

"I don't want somebody who bottles everything up, then suddenly snaps and flies into an irrational bout of anger" becomes "I want somebody who is able to communicate their feelings and needs well."

 

"I don't want somebody whose idea of a life with me is that we sit on a couch together watching tv and never having a conversation" becomes "I want somebody I feel compatible with. Who I can have a laugh and a joke as well as serious conversations with."

 

"I don't want somebody who is all take and no give" becomes "I want somebody who is not only able to communicate their own feelings and needs, but who is interested in mine."

 

In other words, a healthy and mature adult who doesn't appear to be plagued by any serious personality disorder, and whose addition to your life will either improve it - or, at least, will not worsen it. "I'm not fat" doesn't guarantee any of those things.

 

If the worst that has happened to a mature (in years, if nothing else) man, relationship wise, is that his partner put on a few pounds then he's got off pretty lightly I would say. Perhaps that "got off lightly" man really can't imagine anything worse than a partner being a bit fat. Well, I think there are plenty on here who can attest to the fact that there really are worse possibilities out there.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Taramere

[lollipopspot]

Hey, wait a minute. I'm not fat and yet I don't have my choice of men. I feel cheated!