"I don't know what women want"

[irc333]

In regards to #1, I DO have a life myself. I do my own thing, I have plenty of friends and enough of a social life to continue forward. I mean, you can keep distracting yourself with having activities, hobbies, goals, etc. However, after all that's said and done, when you go to bed at night...that's when you realize you're alone.

 

Also, with the Holidays, it'll be hard on some of the singles, too.

[Taramere]

Hey, wait a minute. I'm not fat and yet I don't have my choice of men. I feel cheated!

 

Now just wait a moment though, lollipopspot. Do you in any way resemble either Tori Spelling or Lady Gaga. Because if so...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/499367-do-men-find-women-like-tori-spelling-attractive

 

 

A bunch of people had a discussion about face versus body a, few guys said face and a few said body. Tori Spelling came up. And most guys said now and 20 years ago they never found her remotely attractive. Lady Gaga was another one. Nobody found her attractive.

 

So there you go. Another one is Sarah Jessica Parker. Nobody can describe her as fat, but all the evidence of vast internet commentary out there in which men voice their disgust for her looks indicates that her loyal adherence to the rule of "not being fat" just isn't quite enough for the ordinary man in the street.

 

Other evidence tells us "don't be fat, and don't be a feminist." That's a particularly tricky one, because generally people can't seem to reach any universal agreement on what a feminist actually is. Just don't be one. If you model yourself on Karen Straughan you'll probably be okay (just don't actually look like her, for Heaven's sake).

 

Also, if you must try to be funny remember the golden rule. Play the buffoon for laughs, but make sure nobody realises you're doing it deliberately to entertain. That way the laugh can be on you rather than with you, and somebody else can take the credit for being funny. Follow these simple rules of the four fs (fat - not, funny - only at your own expense, fXcking - not sucking at it, feminist - not one) and, nothing in particular will happen but just follow them anyway. See how simple it is?

[Million.to.1]

I love you Tara.

[Haydn]

You as well?

 

 

OP Thanks for this post.

 

 

I love you Tara.

[irc333]

Interestingly enough, I've always found Sarah Jessica Parker rather attractive.

 

Ironically, that what makes me rare among men. It doesn't take that much for me to be physically attracted.

 

Now just wait a moment though, lollipopspot. Do you in any way resemble either Tori Spelling or Lady Gaga. Because if so...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/499367-do-men-find-women-like-tori-spelling-attractive

 

 

 

 

So there you go. Another one is Sarah Jessica Parker. Nobody can describe her as fat, but all the evidence of vast internet commentary out there in which men voice their disgust for her looks indicates that her loyal adherence to the rule of "not being fat" just isn't quite enough for the ordinary man in the street.

 

Other evidence tells us "don't be fat, and don't be a feminist." That's a particularly tricky one, because generally people can't seem to reach any universal agreement on what a feminist actually is. Just don't be one. If you model yourself on Karen Straughan you'll probably be okay (just don't actually look like her, for Heaven's sake).

 

Also, if you must try to be funny remember the golden rule. Play the buffoon for laughs, but make sure nobody realises you're doing it deliberately to entertain. That way the laugh can be on you rather than with you, and somebody else can take the credit for being funny. Follow these simple rules of the four fs (fat - not, funny - only at your own expense, fXcking - not sucking at it, feminist - not one) and, nothing in particular will happen but just follow them anyway. See how simple it is?

[Taramere]

I love you Tara.

 

Thank you for that Million. I need that love, today. I went to work, not being fat (well not by medical standards anyway - by catwalk standards I suppose I would be a wildebeest), and yet my day so far has really been quite unpleasant. I don't get it. I thought I'd done everything right by remaining within my healthy weight range.

[insert_name]

Hey, wait a minute. I'm not fat and yet I don't have my choice of men. I feel cheated!

 

Just like all the guys who have their life sorted and cant get a woman because the women are too busy singing the "where have all the good men gone" blues.

[TouchedByViolet]

Nothing on your list would make a women wet. I know men who satisfy most of your list but can't get laid or a girlfriend. I also know deadbeats and losers who fail on most of your list yet never have a problem getting girls. Also, you have never had a gf...

 

Being a better person is great but that is often not the root of the problem.

 

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

[MissBee]

In regards to #1, I DO have a life myself. I do my own thing, I have plenty of friends and enough of a social life to continue forward. I mean, you can keep distracting yourself with having activities, hobbies, goals, etc. However, after all that's said and done, when you go to bed at night...that's when you realize you're alone.

 

Also, with the Holidays, it'll be hard on some of the singles, too.

 

The fact that you think these things are "distractions" means it isn't something you're doing because you like to for it's own sake but simply doing it to not think about your "real goal", being with someone. Which is the point.

 

Sometimes people are single, sometimes they are in a relationship. As I said, there is a huge discrepancy in mentalities of people who like to be in relationships or even prefer it but are completely fine single and believe they'll eventually get into one again and those whose minds are consumed with finding a relationship such that every other thing is secondary or a distraction.

 

It's not about never being lonely. Also, I'm not in a relationship right now, but I'm not alone. I'm still me, I have a roommate who is my friend, other friends etc. I mean what is "alone" really??? Because being a couple does not (for people with a life at least) mean you are never alone and have now become conjoined twins. When I had a boyfriend, I still was alone many times. I went to different countries by myself without him, he didn't sleep with me every night, he also had his own obligations, so I was alone in those times. It's no different now really. Alone is something we all are sometimes.

 

I mean unless you live in a basement with no friends or family or social contact...how can simply not being in a relationship mean you're alone all the time? Being in a relationship has never influenced my holidays. I spend holidays with my family. In fact come to think of it, except Valentine's Day or New Years Eve, I've never spent the holidays with a boyfriend. And when I'm single on Valentine's Day, like this past one for example, my roommate and I had a full day of so much fun. We got a couple's massage, we got mani pedis, we had a beautiful dinner at this cute upscale Japanese restaurant with salmon tartare, different sashimi and nigir, steak and lobster, souffle, champagne , then we met up with another friend for a movie. It was really fun! I spent one NYE with a bf, but the rest I've spent with my family or I go out with friends.

 

Point is: people with FULL lives aren't just living in a distraction until they find a man/woman. Their attitude is truly that they are happy and when they get in a relationship it is a plus and for such people it is also very easy for them to be choosy about partners as their lives are great so they absolutely have zero desire to be with someone who is only a warm body, therefore will only be with people who can add to it. They also aren't alone on holidays crying into a microwaveable dinner just because they have no bf/gf ...come on...most people with full lives have friends, family, and plans on the holidays. If you have no friends, aren't close to your family and just want a man/woman to be your all and everything...it places you in a very sad and vulnerable position, as relationships end...and if you had nothing else going for you, when it ends you will be unnaturally affected by it. We all have heartbreak but it is worse for folks who have no other outlet or social relationships besides their SO who left them.

 

Like I said: the difference in mentalities is so stark between the "Dying to be with someone" folks and the "Yea sure, I want a good man/woman" folks. I haven't met any dying to be with someone folks who seem like well adjusted happy people personally. And it's awful because you can't force relationships and love, it happens when it does. So if you just live waiting for it, what if it doesn't happen for you until you're 50...then what? You will live a half-life in a mental prison of your own making waiting? (this is you plural btw and not you specifically). And even when it does happen, relationships end. I've been in relationships and I've been single. If I built my life around being with a man I'd be a very unhappy person. I get over the actual heartbreak and still have a wonderful life. For me, when I get over the initial darkness of the heartbreak, I am able to go back to being happy and normal and doing me. I remember when I would break up with someone and it was painful my wish was to go back to how I felt before I started dating them ---- happy, carefree, living life and not being upset over heartbreak. For the dying to be with someone folks though their only wish is to be back with the person since they had no life they particularly enjoyed before them and since the bulk of their life is spent pretending to have a life while still desperately hoping to be with someone.

[MissBee]

Nothing on your list would make a women wet. I know men who satisfy most of your list but can't get laid or a girlfriend. I also know deadbeats and losers who fail on most of your list yet never have a problem getting girls. Also, you have never had a gf...

 

Being a better person is great but that is often not the root of the problem.

 

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

 

False: lots of women, myself included, others who've responded would get wet over these things.

 

But in any case, the post wasn't geared towards telling/teaching a man how to get a woman interested in him sexually. Nowhere did the OP say this was what this would accomplish.

 

It was geared towards, it seems, men whose one mission is that but fail to see how they can't put the cart before the horse or make this their life goal to the neglect of other important characteristics.

 

Precisely as you said, you can't make someone feel a certain way about you. Therefore if your single goal in life is to try to get someone to want you...you're already losing. So might as well focus on being a well-developed person whose happiness is broader than getting a woman since you can't 100% control that unless you club her and drag her back to your cave. By doing these other things it only increases not decreases your chances of finding someone who thinks you're worth it, but it also gives you an actual life and actual self-satisfaction where you become less obsessed with finding a woman. So it's a win win.

 

I don't see how doing these things will make you lose in life...but I can point to case after case, esp on this board, where a man clearly lacks all the OP says but thinks he can somehow mystify a woman into wanting him and thinks that these things are secondary to the goal of somehow finding someone. It's like what I tell folks about NC with an ex. NC is a win win for you. You CANNOT make your ex want you back. They feel that way naturally on their own or don't. If they want you, not talking to them won't change that. I mean they broke up with you and don't talk to you and you STILL want them often, so clearly that doesn't change anything. NC helps you to detach and be rational and to not obsessively text, call, beg, plead and embarrass yourself with them. IF things should work out they will come back on their own and you'll be in a better space with your dignity in tact. If they never come back, you still win because NC also works to help you to detach and start getting over them. So you win both ways. ThaWholigan's post is a similar thing, these things will only help you, and many people who will oppose them are probably the men who actually lack them and need to do them versus men who've already got those bases covered. If you already have these covered, you probably aren't here lamenting day in and out about finding a woman. However, if that is your constant cry and plea daily, I'd wager you don't have these things covered and should probably work on that instead of trying to control what you cannot (i.e. a woman's interest).

[Rejected Rosebud]

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

 

Maybe part of the point is that focussing on higher values than "get sex" or "not be fat" might be the best way to walk the best path you can in life and to attract other people who are as well. Evolved people can be sexy too!

[insert_name]

Nothing on your list would make a women wet. I know men who satisfy most of your list but can't get laid or a girlfriend. I also know deadbeats and losers who fail on most of your list yet never have a problem getting girls. Also, you have never had a gf...

 

Being a better person is great but that is often not the root of the problem.

 

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

 

Bingo, someone gets it.

 

That list is effectively something you might conisder doing in order to live a happier life.

 

But you might also consider not doing those things, being an awful human being and still live a happy life (if you enjoy being awful). You have as much chance of being successful with women as you do with the traits in that list.

[ThaWholigan]

Nothing on your list would make a women wet. I know men who satisfy most of your list but can't get laid or a girlfriend. I also know deadbeats and losers who fail on most of your list yet never have a problem getting girls. Also, you have never had a gf...

 

Being a better person is great but that is often not the root of the problem.

 

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

Why are so many of you missing the point?

 

It wasn't about getting women wet. If you want to do that, get a 6-pack, flirt with women a lot, and understand how to use tension to your advantage. Of course there are exceptions as you pointed out - and yes, I have yet to have a gf - but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong.

 

This thread was a bad idea . Looks like I was wasting my time.

 

Carry on!

[xxoo]

Nothing on your list would make a women wet. I know men who satisfy most of your list but can't get laid or a girlfriend. I also know deadbeats and losers who fail on most of your list yet never have a problem getting girls. Also, you have never had a gf...

 

Being a better person is great but that is often not the root of the problem.

 

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

 

If you're beating off the women, like the hot deadbeats and losers you cite, then this thread isn't for you.

 

If you are struggling to understand what women want, I guess you could morph into a hot loser, or you could consider the very good advice offered by the op. Some really awesome people struggle with point #2, emotional intelligence, which prevents that connection that makes a woman, yes, wet. It is something that the hot deadbeats and losers excel at.

[somedude81]

Why are so many of you missing the point?

 

It wasn't about getting women wet. If you want to do that, get a 6-pack, flirt with women a lot, and understand how to use tension to your advantage. Of course there are exceptions as you pointed out - and yes, I have yet to have a gf - but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong.

 

This thread was a bad idea . Looks like I was wasting my time.

 

Carry on!

 

Why did you make this thread, and choose that title if the thread isn't about attracting women?

[ThaWholigan]

Why did you make this thread, and choose that title if the thread isn't about attracting women?

Because to attract a woman, its far better not to make it the basis of your happiness and existence like you do. A woman is more likely to be attracted to a man who has something going on with his own life rather than having barely any other interests other than having a GF. The posters nitpicking at my posts aren't going to change that - the message is still accurate. A lot of women want a man who has his own life and interests outside of her. Who is emotionally intelligent enough to handle his insecurities, and wants to grow as a character (including sexually).

 

And being sexually attractive falls under number 3, but my guess is you didn't even read the post, you and others had your mind made up so anything I said wasn't going to be effective, and was likely to be picked at instead. Like I said, I wasted my time trying to help, again. You're still gonna bitch at me over innocuous things in my posts and still come back later complaining about the same sh-t and still having the same problem when the solutions are staring you+others in the face.

 

Well, continue ahead. Its your life. I'll be taking my own advice and being happy as a result.

[somedude81]

It's OK dude, relax.

 

Not everybody is going to agree with you or appreciate how much effort you put in to trying to help them. That's life.

 

Yes I probably will keep complaining over the same stuff until I figure it out for myself. That isn't your problem, it's mine.

[ltjg45]

While the advice offered by the OP makes sense and I was already aware of it, the issue I have is that I got 2 major problems:

 

1. I don't know what to do. I hasn't found a single thing that gets me motivated. If anything, I tend to regret it at the end. At first, I was into video games, MMOs, and trading cards but now I have losing interest in all 3 fast. I barely play my Nintendo 3DS that much anymore, I am losing interest in World of Warcraft rapidly, and I can't wait to sell off my trading cards and get some cash back in my pocket. Outside of that, I can't think of anything else that I even want to do. I could do bowling but that is just casual entertainment and, at the end, just a waste of time.

 

2. As for careers, college is a big financial trap. If that eats up at least 40,000 in college debt, then if I go back in there and can't find a job, my life might as well be over since it has taken me 6 years just to find a job and pay back $3,000 in debt. With the job market in such a mess, I don't like my chances of finding better work even if I do graduate.

 

Which leads to part #3:

 

Without #1 and #2, it is safe to say that no woman worth the trouble would be interested in me and frankly, I can't blame them. I certainly wouldn't date myself but I don't see any path that I want to take to change that.

 

I am curious in your opinion, OP. What would you do if you are in my shoes? Be as cruel as necessary if you have to be. After all I went through so far, I am surprised I am not dead yet.

[Taramere]

"Real men like a woman with curves." "Only a dog goes for bones." "No, I don't wear a size 0. That's because I have the body of a woman, not a 12 year old."

 

Size zero (if it's a genuine size zero as opposed to maybe a US size 4 or 6 that's paraded as a size zero as "vanity sizing") is really thin. It might be okay for an exceptionally small boned woman, but most women are going to be skeletal at that size.

 

A good friend of mine has spent the last two years as what is, essentially, a prisoner in an eating disorders unit. Her entire life is ruled by anorexia and bulimia. It's absolutely horrible seeing somebody in the grip of that illness and unable/unwilling to recover from it. My Godfather's daughter died last year, long before her time, after destroying her life with that horrible and infuriating illness. I've had quite a few friends who have suffered from anorexia and/or bulimia - though those two have been by far the most severe cases. I know the usual response. "Not being fat doesn't mean being anorexic"...but actually, if we're talking about a genuine size 0 as the definition of not being fat, that's exactly what it means for most adult women.

 

It's odd to hear men giving out the same message ("don't be fat, don't be fat, don't be fat" - referring to this post http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/499507-i-don-t-know-what-women-want-5.html#post5973027) to women that anorexics give themselves in such an obsessive way. It would just be nice if the message were something more like "be healthy". Since obesity isn't a healthy state of affairs, "be healthy" pretty much covers it.

 

I think the biggest reason for this is because it has become the biggest hurdle in dating for us. Even though I was in great shape at the time, all but one woman who contacted me on OLD was obese.

 

Medically obese? I ask because some guys will in fact use words like "fat" or "obese" for women who aren't actually medically overweight but who are bigger than the guy considers to be attractive. When somebody is using a dress size zero as an example of a size that they think is okay for an adult woman, that does make me wonder if they quite understand what a medically healthy size for an adult woman actually is.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Taramere

[rester]

Bingo, someone gets it.

 

That list is effectively something you might conisder doing in order to live a happier life.

But you might also consider not doing those things, being an awful human being and still live a happy life (if you enjoy being awful). You have as much chance of being successful with women as you do with the traits in that list.

 

And what's wrong with that? If some of the folks on here would actively pursue happiness outside of relying on a partner, they might not have to be on here complaining about their life so much. People need to take responsibility for their own problems. We all have them.

[jay1983]

Nothing on your list would make a women wet. I know men who satisfy most of your list but can't get laid or a girlfriend. I also know deadbeats and losers who fail on most of your list yet never have a problem getting girls. Also, you have never had a gf...

 

Being a better person is great but that is often not the root of the problem.

 

Struggling guys want romance, sex, and often a relationship with the right girl. Your list focuses on being a better person but does NOT focus on getting a girl interested in you sexually.

 

No it won't guarantee you a woman, but I think there's a correlation between what's in the OP and what women are attracted to. Those women who like the deadbeat losers are washed up with 3 kids before 25. I wouldn't worry about them.

[lollipopspot]

I just did a little research on size zero, and it sounds as though it's not fine for most adult women.

 

What is Size Zero?

Well, it's an American size for a start, the British equivalent is size four which equates to a European size 32. This makes the size zero quite small. A size zero is actually 32 inch bust, 22 inch waist and 33-34 inch hips. Bear in mind this is an adult size we're talking here. The female of the species comes in many shapes and sizes, but at maturity she could be expected to have a bust and hips which have developed through puberty. The size zero waist is a mere 22 - 23 inches and, according to the media, is the size of an average eight-year-old.

 

The average eight-year-old1 has not yet developed a bust or hips, and is a much more androgynous shape, so 22 inches is fine. Slip forward in time until the same youngster is the average 14-year-old depending on height and build, there may or may not be a vast difference in the waist size, but there will be a difference in the bust and hip size.

BBC - h2g2 - Size Zero - The Bare Bones! - A20928747

[Taramere]

Yes, medically obese. In most cases, size 0 is quite fine for an adult woman. Here are some facts for you from the CDC. In the USA, around 2% of people are underweight. When you compare that to 34% of the nation being obese, which do you find to be the more prevalent issue? That 34% is true obesity. Not a few pounds overweight, but medically obese.

 

Obesity is the more prevalent issue for sure. However, when somebody is severely underweight we're not talking about possible death or disease resulting from their weight problem a few years down the line. Before my friend was readmitted to hospital it was a constant fear for me that she would collapse and die in my home or while we were out. Which sounds awful of me to say, but it's a strong likelihood that you're dealing with all the time when somebody has dieted down to that extreme.

 

It might be much rarer than obesity - but when you're dealing with somebody who's like that, there's a sense of fear and urgency on account of the very strong likelihood (as opposed to just possibility) that they will die very suddenly.

 

Also, I notice you didn't argue with the point that I was making when I posted this. Men are insulted for not wanting to date overweight women.

 

I think a lot depends on how the man voices the preference. I mean, the old "fat chicks aren't really human" - well, even if it's just said as a joke or banter, the jokester still deserves whatever banter gets thrown back at him. If he doesn't find it funny...well, so be it. The targets of his humour probably feel much the same way.

 

If it's just a case of "I'm healthy and in good shape, and I want a partner who's the same way"...well, I think if people have an issue about that because they're in unhealthy condition, that's too bad really. It seems very wrong to insult somebody because they want a partner they can have a healthy, active lifestyle with.

 

There certainly are times that people who are a healthy weight are unfairly labelled as "anorexic" when in actual fact the people labelling them are the ones who have a problem (ie with being medically overweight). I can remember watching an episode of Roseanne where she was insulting the female members of "Friends" and making bulimia references. As though she had her stuff so together, and had such a healthy approach towards eating.

 

I also worked with somebody like that once. She very likely weighed in excess of 250 pounds, and would try to smear colleagues of a medically healthy weight as being too skinny, anorexic etc. In really quite a nasty way. I think on some level she knew that it was very difficult for people to come back at her on it because she really did quite clearly have a problem.

 

So I don't disagree that there is a problem with obesity, and that the drive to accept obesity as beautiful and healthy is quite irresponsible and misguided. Obesity isn't healthy, it's certainly more prevalent than conditions like anorexia and clearly both involve an unhealthy relationship with food...but if you ever find yourself close to somebody who has clinical anorexia I think you'll realise why it gets as much focus as it does. It's an absolute nightmare to deal with and there's also a level of irrationality and self destructiveness to it that puts it on a whole different level to that situation where somebody is obese from overeating. Unless we're talking about that level of obesity where a person can barely walk.

[irc333]

What kills me is, there are overweight women that don't have much to offer, but expect to date some fitness guru.

[insert_name]

And what's wrong with that? If some of the folks on here would actively pursue happiness outside of relying on a partner, they might not have to be on here complaining about their life so much. People need to take responsibility for their own problems. We all have them.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. My issue with this whole thread is that was not started to tell men what they should be aiming to get out of their own life, it was suggesting that in order to be successful with women there are 'baseline' traits that you NEED to have.

 

It annoys me that people tell guys they should change to get women, like they are a prize you work towards. I doubt a thread encouraging women to lose an entitled attitude in order to win a man would be received as positively as this one has generally been.

 

We should be encouraging people to change for themselves- if that translates to romantic success then its a bonus. Imagine the disappointment when a guy spends ages improving and getting his **** together and at the end of it all the women are still preferring deadbeats to him. If he does it for hinself then the fruit of his labour is reward enough and it doesnt matter what women do.

 

That is what the OP has tried to say eventually, the opening post and title of the thread has definitely couched it in terms of improving who you are for the benefit of the opposite gender though.

Edited October 30, 2014 by insert_name