"I don't know what women want"

[Els]

 

Yes, medically obese. In most cases, size 0 is quite fine for an adult woman. Here are some facts for you from the CDC. In the USA, around 2% of people are underweight. When you compare that to 34% of the nation being obese, which do you find to be the more prevalent issue? That 34% is true obesity. Not a few pounds overweight, but medically obese.

 

Also, I notice you didn't argue with the point that I was making when I posted this. Men are insulted for not wanting to date overweight women.

 

Re: the weight thing, it isn't necessarily being underweight or size 0 that hurts someone's health, as long as they still have more than the basic fat % needed for essential functions. It's what a lot of women, driven by the skinny-obsession, do to themselves to get there that is the problem. There are very, very few women who are naturally a size 0 with good diet and exercise alone.

 

As for concerns about obesity, my observation has been that amongst developed countries, the ones with less 'skinny-obsession' actually have significantly lower obesity rates than the US. They don't even sell US size zero here in mainstream departmental stores - the common sizes are US 4-12 - and the obesity rate is a lot lower. (I converted US sizes to check)

 

That being said, we're derailing Who's thread. This is about what the unsuccessful men can do to make their lives better. We already have plenty of other threads criticizing women and their bodies here.

[Phoe]

Yeah, definitely want to be careful about assigning "fat" or "skinny" to any particular dress size.

 

There's a full body photo in my album for reference. I'm a size 8.

 

I'm not even close to fat. But I'm also not even close to a size 0

[Keenly]

Female sizes for clothing is one of the most confusing and industrially inconsistent things I've ever even seen.

 

 

A size 5 at Walmart is not a size 5 at nordstroms etc.

[normal person]

 

It annoys me that people tell guys they should change to get women, like they are a prize you work towards. I doubt a thread encouraging women to lose an entitled attitude in order to win a man would be received as positively as this one has generally been.

 

I hear you, but I think the types of "change" we're talking about could be better labeled "improvements" or "steps." I don't think anyone's suggested guys change for the worse.

 

The sad reality is that some people do need to compromise things about themselves to get what they want. Everything about us as individuals isn't inherently good or desirable. We can be lazy, selfish, stubborn, uninteresting, entitled, etc. Life isn't a fairytale, if you want something bad enough and you aren't getting it, you'll need to calibrate yourself to do so.

 

If a guy wants girls but can't have them, he'll eventually get his reality check and has to compromise himself somehow. He'll need to improve. If a girl wants to act entitled but turns men off, she'll get her reality check and then realize she needs to lose the attitude. She'll also need to improve.

[SJC2008]

A woman can hitch her wagon to my train or she can catch the next one. What does it mean to have a life anyway? Most people do movies malls and and bar scene. You don't have to be some awesome man or woman to get an so.

[ThaWholigan]

While the advice offered by the OP makes sense and I was already aware of it, the issue I have is that I got 2 major problems:

 

1. I don't know what to do. I hasn't found a single thing that gets me motivated. If anything, I tend to regret it at the end. At first, I was into video games, MMOs, and trading cards but now I have losing interest in all 3 fast. I barely play my Nintendo 3DS that much anymore, I am losing interest in World of Warcraft rapidly, and I can't wait to sell off my trading cards and get some cash back in my pocket. Outside of that, I can't think of anything else that I even want to do. I could do bowling but that is just casual entertainment and, at the end, just a waste of time.

 

2. As for careers, college is a big financial trap. If that eats up at least 40,000 in college debt, then if I go back in there and can't find a job, my life might as well be over since it has taken me 6 years just to find a job and pay back $3,000 in debt. With the job market in such a mess, I don't like my chances of finding better work even if I do graduate.

 

Which leads to part #3:

 

Without #1 and #2, it is safe to say that no woman worth the trouble would be interested in me and frankly, I can't blame them. I certainly wouldn't date myself but I don't see any path that I want to take to change that.

 

I am curious in your opinion, OP. What would you do if you are in my shoes? Be as cruel as necessary if you have to be. After all I went through so far, I am surprised I am not dead yet.

 

I wouldn't be cruel . You're not far off from where I'm at anyway!

 

I lost my passion too at one stage. I've been a musician as long as I can remember and I actually fell out of love with it completely at one stage. I didn't know what I wanted to do anymore. I lost most of the patience I had with anything I liked doing, and that sucked. I had to rediscover what drove me to do the things I liked doing.

 

It's gonna take a lot of trial and error for you as it did for myself. Sometimes you'll push yourself to try something and it won't happen, but you gotta stick with it long enough to see if any personal reward will come out of it. Think about all the things that you COULD do, and you might come across something you have a bit of an interest in. There's a lot out there you can do.

 

As for college, I can attest to that. If I want to go back and study, it will cost me £50,000 at least. But that's how things are mostly - anything you want to do will initially cost money or time or resources. You just have to decide in yourself if it's worth it. And I agree that the job market sucks, but there can be ways around it. If you are learning new skills, you can pick up one that you can possibly translate to self-employment, or learn to network so that you can get work referrals perhaps while you're in college - if you decide to go, that is.

 

In your shoes, I'd make a plan and then go for it. Take some calculated risks. I know it's hard to find something you're passionate about, but if you keep looking, you'll find it. Trust me on that. You might even find more than one. Then just make a plan - consider all angles. After that, it's all about application and perseverance.

 

Just to illustrate what kind of plan you need to have - just last year, I was flat broke and on job seekers. I didn't even have a job. A chance convo with my dad lead me to a college where I was basically doing music production - something I already had a diploma in. But I met some people there who have basically changed my life, and became a key component in my plan - they gave me incentive. "Become a graded pianist under our tutelage, and you can teach." Never thought about combining my musicianship with teaching, but it clicked and made sense. So I had something to work towards.

 

After that, I practiced and went to many work programs and seminars to get myself a 2nd job so I could pay for my lessons. I had all but given up when I took a call centre job a few months ago, a job I still have now. It's tiding me over until my grades in piano are sufficient. I'm looking at doing a teaching course so I can get a relevant qualification - this way, even if I don't get hired right away, I can teach privately and independently!

 

All started from putting myself in the position to network and speak to people, studying at numerous things - wanting to learn - and then finding the resources I needed and putting them to work. So it can be done, even for late bloomers like us!

 

As for how women factor into this? Well, it's like I said. Focus on you, for you, and women generally will tend to be around. Especially if you network. Women like a man with his own life - focusing on you, for you, will attract them more often than not. A point that seems lost on some of the commenters in this thread, but hey. Can't save everyone! . Don't worry about being inexperienced, or behind your peers. We don't all reach enlightenment at the same stage and some girls will even admire seeing you try and having a plan for yourself - perhaps drawing the attention of women also working on themselves and their own life. As long as you're doing it for yourself. I made the decision to not date while I work on me - but being that my status is slowly improving, I haven't gone unnoticed by women. So it goes to show that I'm onto something. You seem as though you genuinely want to better your life, I see it in all your posts. You just have to keep persevering and also keep studying. Not just in college, but on your own. Reading will help you, as will going out there and networking with people - going to meetups for a variety of interests. You never know what you'll find.

 

This will probably be my last post in this thread and for a while, but I do hope that you - and perhaps anyone else who needs the encouragement - take some solace in it. Improving yourself from where you are will probably be really hard and won't happen overnight, but I promise you it will be so worth it in the end, even if it seems sh*tty now. I've made only a bit of progress, and I'm already better and happier than I've ever been. I'd like that for you too, so keep looking for what you want to do, and you'll find it.

 

[Revolver]

Nothing wrong with that at all. My issue with this whole thread is that was not started to tell men what they should be aiming to get out of their own life, it was suggesting that in order to be successful with women there are 'baseline' traits that you NEED to have.

 

It annoys me that people tell guys they should change to get women, like they are a prize you work towards. I doubt a thread encouraging women to lose an entitled attitude in order to win a man would be received as positively as this one has generally been.

 

We should be encouraging people to change for themselves- if that translates to romantic success then its a bonus. Imagine the disappointment when a guy spends ages improving and getting his **** together and at the end of it all the women are still preferring deadbeats to him. If he does it for hinself then the fruit of his labour is reward enough and it doesnt matter what women do.

 

That is what the OP has tried to say eventually, the opening post and title of the thread has definitely couched it in terms of improving who you are for the benefit of the opposite gender though.

 

And then those same people wonder why so many guys put women on a pedestal

[Cristo]

I hear you, but I think the types of "change" we're talking about could be better labeled "improvements" or "steps." I don't think anyone's suggested guys change for the worse.

 

The sad reality is that some people do need to compromise things about themselves to get what they want. Everything about us as individuals isn't inherently good or desirable. We can be lazy, selfish, stubborn, uninteresting, entitled, etc. Life isn't a fairytale, if you want something bad enough and you aren't getting it, you'll need to calibrate yourself to do so.

 

If a guy wants girls but can't have them, he'll eventually get his reality check and has to compromise himself somehow. He'll need to improve. If a girl wants to act entitled but turns men off, she'll get her reality check and then realize she needs to lose the attitude. She'll also need to improve.

 

It's important to note that "improvement" in this context is not actual self-improvement. It should be called "becoming more attractive to women", because that's what it is.

 

Women generally don't need to change anything about themselves because they have the upper hand.

[Cristo]

If the women you know have the upper hand it's because you give it to them. By the way, many women do have to change themselves if they expect to get a decent guy. There might be some dude out there willing to date a dirtbag chick, but I'm not the one.

 

I do not give women the upper hand anymore. I used to often though. Now, I am extremely picky and selective in the women that I date. But to say that women in general don't have the upper hand in dating as a whole is not seeing reality as it is.

 

Any woman can just jump online at any time and will have a multitude of options. Men don't have that and that is a kind of power that you can't buy. Some women don't know how to use their power, but they all have it.

 

Also (and this is a little off-topic so I won't delve on it), women have extreme power in courts and sexually. They can get away with so much more than men can. Again, that's power right there.

[normal person]

It's important to note that "improvement" in this context is not actual self-improvement. It should be called "becoming more attractive to women", because that's what it is.

 

Women generally don't need to change anything about themselves because they have the upper hand.

 

It's all sort of subjective, isn't it? If you're working towards getting what you want, then I guess it's improvement. If you're going to the gym and getting healthier as opposed to sitting at home watching TV, I'd call that improvement.

 

I'd agree that if you're learning mind trickery or PUA stuff, that's much more debatable.

[Maleficent]

Good read! I'd love to read the "I don't know what men want" version too.

 

Copy-paste the same text and replace 'he' with 'she' and 'she' with 'he'