Trying to pick up a girl who works in a bikini store

[amerikajin]

wordguy,

 

There's only so much control you have over this situation. No amount of trying or technique or trickery is going to win over her affection. You can't steal her from her man, and it's especially difficult now because she knows she's got the emotional leverage. She already knows you're interested in her. It's a matter of whether or not she's interested in you, and the bottom line is, women who are interested will let you know when they are interested.

 

You don't have her now, but it's not from a lack of effort on your part. You've tried. She's got to start making moves if she's interested, and the fact that she has your phone number and knows your already interested (reinforced by your repeated visits), there's just no mystery involved. The ball is clearly in her court - and she is 100 percent aware of that. I think she honestly just gets a kick out of seeing you succomb to her beauty. She probably finds you attractive, but there's more involved here than your attraction quotient - maybe she's happy where she's at but is keeping you on the side in case things don't work out - and you may not be the only one in that category.

 

That's why it doesn't pay to hang around in this situation. Every time you come around, you're just reinforcing the fact that you like her - something she already knows.

 

All of that negativity out of the way, there's one strategy that just might work. Give your visitation a rest. You're wearing her out and you're wearing yourself out. But, don't forget about her. Come back maybe sometime next month. Just drop by as unpredictably as you can and just say, "Oh, hi, how are you" and start up a little chat. Then, invite her to some special activity, like a wine tasting or a some kind of social event - or maybe something like a yoga class (whatever you do for exercise). In other words, something that doesn't necessarily look like a date or something along those lines (yes, coffee = date - she knows that). First of all, it'll make her feel better about not upsetting the harmony in her current relationship. Secondly, it'll be a more relaxed occasion for you two to get to know each other a little better.

 

The downside? You'll have to share her attention, possibly with other men. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Just a suggestion.

[tokyo]

I personally think you made the wrong moves from the beginning. When you said you wanted to go back into the shop and thank her again I thought "bad move" (ok, sorry, I should have said it right from the beginning, but I somehow didn't feel like replying). There's no need to make such a fuss about nothing. Thanking her over and over again, just because you asked her for directions is a bit too much. Maybe from that point on I felt a bit biased. I don't see this girl as being interested in you. She seems to be a very very nice gentle person who has a problem with saying no to other nice people. If she was in a bad relationship and saw a nice guy who was interested in her, then I guess she'd made some move. If she's in a happy relationship and saw a nice guy who was interested in her, she'll either consider him to be a nice guy and maybe good friend or she'll think he's obviously not getting the hint that she's not interested in him and she'll wonder why he can't understand it.

 

Concerning smiles, I think women are trained to smile more than men. I think what is more important is eye contact, if she's not giving you an intense look into your eyes along with a bright smile, then forget it. You may think she's giving you a special smile, but maybe it's just because she thinks you're a nice person and nothing more.

 

I then freaked out a bit back in my office after this with one of the girls there about her and decide I'm sick of these games and am going to try and ask her out for coffee again. Boyfriend or not, these games have to end I'm thinking (I know, not playing it cool but this hot & cold thing has me a little out of sorts)...

I don't think this is a game. My guess is you come across as too strong because of wrong assumptions and ideas you have of this girl. I also tend to think that people who complain about a situation and claim there are games involved just don't know how to read the signals.

 

Anyways, around 3:30 I head down and 'drop-in' and ask her if she wants a coffee. "I've already had two, but thanks for thinking of me ". "Maybe some other time?" Ok, I'll catch you later...

I personally see this as the final proof that she's not interested. Too many excuses here.

 

You've dropped enough hints, if she hasn't reacted as far as now, then forget her. She has a boyfriend anyway and you should respect her borders. Some women may appreciate the extra attention while others may get annoyed when someone bugs them with aggressive courting because he doesn't get it that they are already happy with someone else. I think this girl belongs to the second group, if she was out for attention from you, she would flirt with you, but she hasn't.

[browneyes22]

I think kooky is making the situation a bit more complicated than it seems. Look...when guys ask girls out on dates its really to check them out and see if they are worth the attention you have been giving them. Its no indicaton that we will fall madly in love with them. And if this girl really wasn' t interested whatsoever she would have no trouble saying no right to wordguys face, and she certrainly wouldn't continue to make conversation with him, smile, and wave etc. She likes the attention from wordguy, and if she were single she may have said yes already. But she's not so he has to wait and see.

[amerikajin]

Nah, I think kooky's basically right on this one. I mean that in the sense that there's not necessarily any kind of game here, and sometimes a woman may just be acting nice without intentionally trying to "flirt" as it were. Sometimes, when we men are really into a woman, it's easy to misinterpret nice behavior for flirtatious behavior. And even some flirtatious behavior may have completely unromantic motives behind it, so unless and until there's something obvious like if she touches you or if she starts suggesting future activities together, then frankly, yes, kooky's right on this one. Women who are interested don't play games, they'll let you know - they'll make it fairly obvious believe it or not - at least most women.

[Bronzepen]

Waste of time.

 

She is playing games with you. She likes the attention and enjoys flirting.

 

You are providing both for her. She needs nothing else from you.

 

She has a BF.

 

Telling you she is having problems with her BF is a lure to keep you coming back.

 

If she was interested in you she would have had coffee with you....she didn't.

 

If she was interested in you, she might have emailed or call you...she didn't.

 

She doesn't need to call you, she knows you will show up at the store. You are predictable.

 

 

 

Sorry to be blunt but you are in a state of wishful thinking. Time to snap out of it.

 

Do this, go see her, give her your number (again) and say. "Hey, give me a call when you no longer have a BF." and never go back to the store.

 

 

Never get so fixated on one person.

 

Good Luck.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by browneyes22

I think kooky is making the situation a bit more complicated than it seems. Look...when guys ask girls out on dates its really to check them out and see if they are worth the attention you have been giving them. Its no indicaton that we will fall madly in love with them. And if this girl really wasn' t interested whatsoever she would have no trouble saying no right to wordguys face, and she certrainly wouldn't continue to make conversation with him, smile, and wave etc. She likes the attention from wordguy, and if she were single she may have said yes already. But she's not so he has to wait and see.

See, I'm a woman, you're a man, who do you think will understand a woman better? I have male friends that I appreciate a lot and I can tell you I smile all the time, because they are nice and I enjoy their company and by smiling I hope to make them enjoy my company as well and give them a feeling that I like them. If you now think that this means anything, then obviously you don't have much clue about women.

 

You are saying that Wordguy is not in love with her and that he just wants to go out with her to see how she is? Ok, I definitely recommend you not to give further advice, but to continue readings posts on LS till you understand women.

[BrotherAaron]

I don't see what she did as a complete rejection. If she's half as good looking as wordguy makes her sound, and as bad at rejecting men as kooky says, you would have already seen her around some other dudes... because they'd be on her like bees on honey, and you wouldn't have been the first guy she'd gotten yelled at for coming around her work too much.

 

She sounded pretty interested at first, but not enough to want to go on a date, and showing up all the time probably made her a lot less interested then she was to begin with. She's not playing games - you're the one showing up to chat all the time. She might be nice to you, but she never called, and it's not really surprising considering that she blew you off to begin with. She said she had a boyfriend. If that's true, you really don't want to get involved even if she was willing. If it isn't, then you were dead on impact, and trying harder wont change anything.

 

Anyway, better luck in the future, but this one's a waste of your time.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by BrotherAaron

I don't see what she did as a complete rejection. If she's half as good looking as wordguy makes her sound, and as bad at rejecting men as kooky says, you would have already seen her around some other dudes... because they'd be on her like bees on honey, and you wouldn't have been the first guy she'd gotten yelled at for coming around her work too much.

She has rejected him by telling him that she has a boyfriend. A lot of guys take it as a, ahem, hint that she's not interested in them and leave. Some don't get it and will still linger on. Some will push harder and then she may feel that giving him a very clear answer à la "get lost, stupid" will get the message across a lot better. As long as he's behaving nice and civilized she might not want to give him such a harsh answer, because she thinks he doesn't deserve this kind of treatment (which he doesn't). Her answer is: do not react to any of his offers and do not actively encourage him to anything. She obviously considers him to be a nice guy and doesn't want to hurt his feelings, but she doesn't have the intention of dumping her boyfriend for him. He may have a chance to get her out for a coffee when there are some problems in her relationship and she needs a shoulder to cry on, but till that day his chances are close to an icy zero.

[BrotherAaron]

Yeah, pretty much what I was saying in the second half of that post. She's not interested - and you pinpointed why right here:

 

She obviously considers him to be a nice guy

 

Ouch. The "nice guy" kiss of death.

 

I'm still about confused about the enthusiastic waves from a distance, and the enthusiastic conversation. That's what kept him coming back.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by BrotherAaron

I'm still about confused about the enthusiastic waves from a distance, and the enthusiastic conversation. That's what kept him coming back.

Well, that's because you're a guy and always want to jump at/on a girl, why we only want to be nice and think about other stuff, we have less ulterior motives. I've also come to realize pretty late that guys are just nice, because they want something, while women can be nice and not want anything. Just understand that women are not men and men are not women.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by kooky

while women can be nice and not want anything.

 

So can men. It just depends on their personality.

 

I can introduce you to my ex. She was nice when she wanted something....otherwise she didn't want you to bother her.

[BrotherAaron]

Originally posted by kooky

Well, that's because you're a guy and always want to jump at/on a girl, why we only want to be nice and think about other stuff, we have less ulterior motives. I've also come to realize pretty late that guys are just nice, because they want something, while women can be nice and not want anything. Just understand that women are not men and men are not women.

 

Not true. I'm confused becuase she knows he likes her, and she hasn't stopped sending signals. I'm confused starting with the assumption that she knows she's leading him on... but my guess is that she figures that, since she rejected him, and he dropped the whole dating subject, she thinks that he's just a "nice guy" who wants to be "just friends". If she knew he got a hard-on when she waved, she'd probably be running the other direction.

 

And men can be perfectly nice when they don't want anything... but I don't think people should be "friendly" to people of the opposite sex who are interested if it isn't mutual.

[Wordguy]

I love how everyone actually KNOWS definitively what's going on in her head (and mine) . It's interesting for me to see how perception can be so different depending on your pov and experience (and sex apparently). I have thought on both sides presented here too, but am still optimistic. I'm convinced there's some 'magic' here.

 

Anyways, I played it cool today on all your and some friends' advice. No visits, no conversation, no waves or smiles. I'm going to let her think for bit , again. Believe me, I would have given up a long time ago if there weren't obvious signs of interest. I've been in two serious long-term relationships before so I think I can 'read' a women (although I prefer to think of them as unique individuals not just a sex, ahem) . I think I'm going to let this one play out to the end. That is until she specifically tells me she isn't interested, wants to date or maybe just wants me as the dreaded 'friend' only.

 

I did get a feeling though, that I am being kept as a second option should things blow-up with the bf. How else to explain the hot and cold reactions? Either she wants me or is really good at playing games.

 

Nonetheless, I'm still interested and can wait.

[browneyes22]

Originally posted by kooky

See, I'm a woman, you're a man, who do you think will understand a woman better? I have male friends that I appreciate a lot and I can tell you I smile all the time, because they are nice and I enjoy their company and by smiling I hope to make them enjoy my company as well and give them a feeling that I like them. If you now think that this means anything, then obviously you don't have much clue about women.

 

You are saying that Wordguy is not in love with her and that he just wants to go out with her to see how she is? Ok, I definitely recommend you not to give further advice, but to continue readings posts on LS till you understand women.

 

Well kooky I definately hear what you are saying. I don't claim to understand women entirely, and I'd be willing to bet you don't understand men that well either even though you may think you do. But let me Just give you a little news flash...guys who chat up cute girls like yourself don't do so to become friends. And the appreciative smiles, and enjoyment of their company touches them a bit deeper than a normal friend does. If you now think that these gestures mean nothing, then obviously you don't have much clue about men.

 

Perhaps your misinterpreting what I wrote. From my perspective, if I find a girl whom I'm attracted to, has a great personality, and we get along I will ask her out. Start off with one date. If it goes well, then ask for another. Have fun a 2nd time, this gives a green light date #3. I think women think this way too...after all if you go out on a date with a guy and he is an absolute jerk, chances are you won't want to see him again. But if he is great and you had a great time, chances are you'd probably want to see him again.

 

As far as women acting friendly, perhaps they should learn more about men because when a good looking girl makes conversation with a guy, smiles, waves, etc. if the guy is single he is going to want to ask her out...end of story. If he isn't he will at least flirt. Not the girls fault for being nice, but, if she is going to act this way then she will have guys chasing her like this.

 

I think men and women have to be very careful giving and reading signals. Wordguy here is getting mixed signals.

 

I have been accused of flirting when I thought I wasn't, and visa versa. So I know the feeling.

 

I still think wordguy should keep this thing on the back burner...I would let this rest for a while though and focus on other women as well.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by browneyes22

I still think wordguy should keep this thing on the back burner...I would let this rest for a while though and focus on other women as well.

 

As I said earlier, I don't think he should go out of his way to meet her (ie: Go in her store). If he happens to see her in the food court or something, great. But otherwise, she needs just an occasional glimpse of him to be reminded.

 

If he disappears, she might forget about him altogether. If he avoids the store but waves to her once a week maybe on the way to the train, that's fine.

 

The balls in her court, he's done all he can do.

 

I think we as men are fascinated with this story as we hope, in some way, to learn the RIGHT way to approach a woman. I realize all are different but any bit of useful information is good to know.

[BrotherAaron]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

 

I think we as men are fascinated with this story as we hope, in some way, to learn the RIGHT way to approach a woman. I realize all are different but any bit of useful information is good to know.

 

Nah. I just like giving advice. And it's fun to feel like we've had a part in all of this.

 

Anyway, I'm bored of this girl. Go find us someone new to advise you about.

[Wordguy]

I know. I was trying to post only when something 'meaningful' happened. Then someone came along and through their two cents in out of nowwhere. So here we are...Some good advice though. Some of it I have to give credit for getting me this far. Keep it coming Loveshackers. If it ends in love or heartbreak I will let you know.

 

I'm also flirting with this girl who takes the subway home with me too. But it's not the same feelings or level of confusion yet so I won't bore all of you with the details.

[morrigan]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Waste of time.

 

She is playing games with you. She likes the attention and enjoys flirting.

 

You are providing both for her. She needs nothing else from you.

 

She has a BF.

 

Telling you she is having problems with her BF is a lure to keep you coming back.

 

If she was interested in you she would have had coffee with you....she didn't.

 

If she was interested in you, she might have emailed or call you...she didn't.

 

She doesn't need to call you, she knows you will show up at the store. You are predictable.

 

You seem nice, Wordguy, but I have to agree.

 

She's physically beautiful--and she already has a boyfriend, hasn't made any attempt of her own to get to know you better, and you don't know if you two would have all that much in common anyway. There are other beautiful, interesting women out there, start looking elsewhere.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by BrotherAaron

but my guess is that she figures that, since she rejected him, and he dropped the whole dating subject, she thinks that he's just a "nice guy" who wants to be "just friends". If she knew he got a hard-on when she waved, she'd probably be running the other direction.

You are improving. I admit, I don't know what you as a woman are expected to do when a guy lets you know he's interested in you and you are not. I used to run away when I noticed signals of interest, but after a while the number of your friends really gets small. So, last time a friend of mine dropped hints that he was interested I decided to be a bit more mature and take it as a compliment. I said thank you and ignored it. And I continue with the assumption that this is it, there must be other women there who interest him. I've done the mistake in the past to continue emailing a lot when a friend told me he was interested in me, so unfortunately he must have thought I was interested in him even though I had repeatedly told him that I wanted my ex back. Shouldn't it be enough when someone tells you that she has a boyfriend to take that as a cue and back off? Unless of course you are in love already and then hitting you on your head with a hammer would still not make you get the hint. I can only tell Wordguy, my bet is that she is just friendly and she thinks he's a nice guy.

 

By the way, how are women supposed to react when they realize that someone else is more interested in them? Become cool and distant?

 

And men can be perfectly nice when they don't want anything... but I don't think people should be "friendly" to people of the opposite sex who are interested if it isn't mutual.

If your "friendly" translates with flirty I would understand it, but I do not see any signs of a flirt going on between them. Did Wordguy tell us of any compliments she made? Did he tell us of any touchings or deep looks into each others eyes? Absolutely not. She treated him like she would treat any of her girlfriends. His problem is that he has fallen for her and that's why he has problems seeing things as they are.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by browneyes22

Well kooky I definately hear what you are saying. I don't claim to understand women entirely, and I'd be willing to bet you don't understand men that well either even though you may think you do. But let me Just give you a little news flash...guys who chat up cute girls like yourself don't do so to become friends. And the appreciative smiles, and enjoyment of their company touches them a bit deeper than a normal friend does. If you now think that these gestures mean nothing, then obviously you don't have much clue about men.

Well, I've realized this already to some degree. I think guys have to go through so many rejections when approaching women that they are just happy when a girl is nice and therefore they often misinterprete things.

 

Perhaps your misinterpreting what I wrote. From my perspective, if I find a girl whom I'm attracted to, has a great personality, and we get along I will ask her out. Start off with one date. If it goes well, then ask for another. Have fun a 2nd time, this gives a green light date #3. I think women think this way too...after all if you go out on a date with a guy and he is an absolute jerk, chances are you won't want to see him again. But if he is great and you had a great time, chances are you'd probably want to see him again.

Well, I got this. But if you look at Wordguy's behavior and his brooding over this girl for such a long time then I won't call this casual interest anymore. It's an infatuation already.

 

As far as women acting friendly, perhaps they should learn more about men because when a good looking girl makes conversation with a guy, smiles, waves, etc. if the guy is single he is going to want to ask her out...end of story. If he isn't he will at least flirt. Not the girls fault for being nice, but, if she is going to act this way then she will have guys chasing her like this.

So the girl is supposed to be cold and unfriendly to make him understand that she's not interested in him? Thus giving him a reason to call her a bitch later? I think what people, especially guys, have to realize is that good-looking people are good-looking, but that's it and you shouldn't get so excited about them. It's easier said than done, I know. I have fallen for people because of their looks in the past, but they were rare cases and if you look beyond it they often were pretty normal, nothing exciting.

 

Wordguy here is getting mixed signals.

There are no mixed signals, he's turning them into mixed signals in his head, but there's nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't give him the "we're just friends" talk if he doesn't stop lingering at her shop all the time. If she just considers him a friend she certainly won't find that very cool. I would find it cute if my boyfriend would do this, but also just in the beginning, after a while I would wonder if he hasn't anything else to do than to wonder about me.

 

I still think wordguy should keep this thing on the back burner...I would let this rest for a while though and focus on other women as well.

Good suggestion.

[BrotherAaron]

If a person is romantically interested in you, and you continue to be his/her good friend, then the feelings are unlikely to go away. In fact, it is entirely possible (I'd say probable) for him/her to fall in love with you - and then you've got a situation on your hands you really don't want. That's why I say that you should distance yourself from the person in question.

 

At the stage wordguy is at, she doesn't even really know him... she just knows he's some guy who dropped in out of nowhere and hit on her. She shouldn't be being friendly at all if she doesn't want a guy who's likely to fall for her worse - she should only be encouraging him if she's interested. That's why I thought she might be interested afterall, because she'd have about 1000 guys coming after her if that's how she treats guys she's not interested in.

 

At further stages of friendship, a disclosure of non-mutual feelings should scare you off enough that the person gets the hint that there's no chance, and you should really limit (and that's being generous: I say end) your future interactions with them. It's not rude, you need to stop preventing them from meeting somebody who will atually like them, god forbid, so don't be afraid to treat them with a great amount of emotional distance. It's for the mutual benefit of you both.

 

How cold you have to be depends on how well the other person takes a hint. Some people can take subtle hints, others think that a restraining order is just playing hard to get. It's up to you to figure out how to act in each case.

 

Sure, you saw no signs of her being flirty... but, when you're head over heels for somebody, sometimes you only see flirty in everything. Besides, he might be right, and she might be flirting with him. We can't watch the two, so we don't know.

[browneyes22]

Originally posted by kooky

So the girl is supposed to be cold and unfriendly to make him understand that she's not interested in him? Thus giving him a reason to call her a bitch later? I think what people, especially guys, have to realize is that good-looking people are good-looking, but that's it and you shouldn't get so excited about them. It's easier said than done, I know. I have fallen for people because of their looks in the past, but they were rare cases and if you look beyond it they often were pretty normal, nothing exciting.

 

I've had women brood over me. When this happens I don't pay them any attention, not wave, no smiles, nothing. They can call me what they want afterwards as long as they leave me alone. And I would love to find a good looking girl whom is normal after all. I don't think people want something abnormal with respect there own character.

 

Originally posted by kooky

There are no mixed signals, he's turning them into mixed signals in his head, but there's nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't give him the "we're just friends" talk if he doesn't stop lingering at her shop all the time. If she just considers him a friend she certainly won't find that very cool. I would find it cute if my boyfriend would do this, but also just in the beginning, after a while I would wonder if he hasn't anything else to do than to wonder about me.

 

The fact that she mentioned a boyfriend to wordguy when they first met only to later chase him down while he walked the subway is one mixed signal. Not the biggest of them, but it tells him that she is still interested despite her current situation. If she didn't walk with him to the subway, and tried not to pay attention to him afterwards this would be a clear signal...not now.

[ConfusedInOC]

Wordguy, I STILL want to see her picture

[whichwayisup]

Nonetheless, I'm still interested and can wait.

 

But for how long WG? I mean, you like her - GO for it. Ask her out again. She says nope still with the boyfriend, I seriously would consider completely backing off. Tell her you're interested but not going out of your way to keep on seeing her. If you see her, great, if not, OH well.

[Wordguy]

OK, ok. I've managed to avoid her for 3 straight days with encouragement from some co-workers to stay away and let her come to you. Which was difficult considering the 'wave and smile', I received earlier. I figure she should be sufficiently 'stewed' by tomorrow, having 3 days to consider her feelings towards me.

 

My plan is to tell her that I would like to talk with her privately and when would be a good time (acknowledging that chit-chat in work is no longer cool). Then, when we're alone ask her if she would like to go to this concert with me on the 18th. If she brings up the boyfriend, then I'm thinking about asking her if she is happy. If she says yes, then I'll ask her why she has been acting this way towards me. Basically, I want to declare my intentions again and if she says no, move on. I'm hoping for yes though.

 

If we go out, I will get you that picture ConfusedInOC and you will see what all the fuss is about. I might really freak her out taking a picture before then, sorry.