Just Friends? Why is this guy sticking around?

[BoatingBabe]

LOL Topaz, this whole thread made me laugh...

 

I would have lost interest a long time ago if he never hit on me, and I was attracted to him....He sounds either emotionally unavailable, afraid of hurting a good person (you) because he's not interested in a relationship and will not use YOU. or he's just not romantically interested, any of these could be the case. So If I were you, I'd be "busy" for a while, let him miss you for a while.

[Topaze]

That's exactly what I plan to do.

[tokyo]

Is he Japanese maybe? I heard that Japanese consider kissing to be part of the foreplay that's why kissing doesn't happen so casually as in the American society.

 

I don't think the problem with the weird behavior of your friends is rooted in your friends, but in you. I have yet to find a man who spends lots and lots of time with a woman whom he is not interested in.

 

Why don't you just ask him if he is romantically interested in you or not?

 

 

d'Arthez, I bet if I started to dig deeper I would find reasons why you didn't kiss her. It's just part of human nature to have interest in the other gender. Even I would probably start to have some feelings for someone if I spent too much time with this person.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

I don't know. On the one hand, it is obvious he really likes you, but there is some reason he is not taking it to the next level. What scared him off could be that you told him you are an ultra-religious Christian who does not believe in pre-marital sex and even has special rules for kissing. I really don't know. This could especially be true if he is not a Christian - he may simply not see how the two of you could work out. Now I'm not judging, I'm just saying that is a possibility of what scared him off.

 

OTOH, the other theories about why he may just not be interested could be the case. But I doubt that. He must be into you in all the ways that matter if he wants to constantly spend time with you. I think it is time for you to make a move on him, and just see what happens. If it doesn't turn into an exclusive relationship, something tells me you will forgive yourself for the kiss.

[life loser]

I think you need to make the move

[Topaze]

Originally posted by kooky

Is he Japanese maybe? I heard that Japanese consider kissing to be part of the foreplay that's why kissing doesn't happen so casually as in the American society.

 

Yes he is Japanese and SO hot!!! He is attractive, sexy, playful, GREAT fun, intelligent, a gentleman, we have GREAT talks for hours about every topic under the sun (he has even started to talk about marriage lately and how he sees it).

 

 

I don't think the problem with the weird behavior of your friends is rooted in your friends, but in you. .

 

What do you mean? Please clarify.

 

 

I have yet to find a man who spends lots and lots of time with a woman whom he is not interested in.

 

Why don't you just ask him if he is romantically interested in you or not?.

 

Scared.....but I will look for an opening in the conversation. It has come up a few times like after that guy asked us if we were a couple....he referred to it the next day.

[Topaze]

I did a bit of hunting around on the net about Japanese culture and courtship and here is what I found:

 

Kissing

 

In Japan, kissing is an explicitly sexual thing, not a mere romantic gesture one step up from holding hands. Kissing in public in Japan would be like a boy walking around touching his girlfriend's breasts in a Western society. It may be acceptable to both people involved, but it's just not done, in public.

 

He has read Haiku love poems to me in Japanese and English and said he found it quite erotic and described the women as being "out of control". I found that they were beautiful really subtle love poems. He brought them along one time when we went out. We sat by the water and he asked me to read them to him. They were BEAUTiFUL.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by kooky

d'Arthez, I bet if I started to dig deeper I would find reasons why you didn't kiss her. It's just part of human nature to have interest in the other gender. Even I would probably start to have some feelings for someone if I spent too much time with this person.

 

Dig as deep as you want kooky. You shall not find another reason for me not kissing her.

 

I hope for the Topaze that it is a cultural thing.

 

But either he was born in Canada, or born in Japan (probably). The last could explain his reluctance to make a move. The first would suggest quite an traditional background. Both suggest that there could be a lot of trouble, if and when the relationship develops further.

 

In Japan, kissing is an explicitly sexual thing, not a mere romantic gesture one step up from holding hands. Kissing in public in Japan would be like a boy walking around touching his girlfriend's breasts in a Western society. It may be acceptable to both people involved, but it's just not done, in public.

 

But has he tried to do anything like that in a non-public situation?

[tokyo]

Originally posted by Topaze

I don't think the problem with the weird behavior of your friends is rooted in your friends, but in you.

 

What do you mean? Please clarify.

 

What I mean is that when people attract the same kind of people over and over again, that the problem is not the other person but it's them who subconsciously send the wrong messages to the wrong kind of people.

 

Also people sometimes have criteria which are often paired with certain character traits or consequences. Some women feel only attracted to the bad boys, but when these behave in not such a nice way they complain. What did they expect? If your preference is a guy in uniform, a marine, a police men, etc. then you should be aware that those tend to be more conversative than the rest of the population and you will have to look a bit longer till you find someone who is wearing a uniform and likes to smoke pot with you once in a while.

 

I don't know what you attract people all the while who are only attracted in something platonic, but most women will tell this is absolutely not typical. My guess is that during a date you are giving them wrong signals and scare them away or you do other things that make them lose interest. Or you have attracted the wrong people right from the start for whatever reason.

 

The poems in my eyes are an indicator that he is interested. Love poems are too personal to be read with someone whom you only want to be friends with.

[Topaze]

Part of the problem was that I was focusing on born again Christian men who tend to be more conservative than the general population. The ones who were willing to cross the colour line tended to be those who had a HOST of problems that would make them unattractive to White women. So, I was getting a lot of this "I can be friends with you. You seem to be a really neat person but I would never be romantically involved with a Black woman. I don't find Black women attractive. " This is not the problem witih this guy. He has dated Black women before and he does find Black women attractive.

 

I think my comments about kissing and his cultural background may be part of the problem. He was born here but he has embraced his culture and even lived and worked in Japan for a while.

 

Still doesn't really answer the question about his intentions. Since he is starting to bring up conversations about marriage I think I will bite the bullet and ask how he sees me and our relationship compared to what he thinks makes a marriage work.

[tokyo]

Born again Christians? Uff, I don't know, they seem to be more fanatical than normal Christians. You definitely chose a group who is not that open to crossing the racial boundaries.

 

And Topaze, for heaven's sake, just ask him. You have been waiting for 10 months and you still don't have any answers. Playing the lady and waiting for Prince Charming to pop the question does not always work out.

[Topaze]

Yeah. I sure picked a doozie of a group. I have had much more success since I broadened my scope. Not even my pastor dared to criticize me for my choice after I shared my experiences with him.

 

Yes, I am going to ask him. He is calling several times a day now and flirting more.....the time has come.

[blue17]

Originally posted by Topaze

..and how can I tell this from the beginning to make sure that this NEVER EVER happens to me again?

 

Okay, so I get it, he has absolutely no interest in me. I am just mortified.

 

He just did a whole lot of work for me and I am most appreciative but I think that I will just send him a cheque in the mail. From now on when he asks me to go anywhere, the answer will be NO! If I am not good enough to be a girlfriend, I am not good enought to be a friend. I am tired of having to be satisfied with the consellation prize.

 

I've noticed this pattern before in my life. It's like if the guy isn't interested in being more than friends he has committed a crime against nature and should be ignored permanently. Never understood that...

[Topaze]

Well I overreacted a bit to this situation in my post last night. A lot of it depends on where I meet the guy and how long I have known him. With this particular man, there was a bit of history before he asked me out. We weren't friends but we had met once before and formed a favourable impression of each other. Then when we met again, quite a while later, I was pleasantly surprised when he asked me out. We have spent a lot of time together and talking to each other over the weekend and today. I am feeling better about where things are at. He has indicated a desire to do more things for me and with me.

 

When I was doing the internet dating thing if some guy contacted me with the you seem like an interesting person. "Can we get together? I don't date Black women but I would love to be your friend." garbage. I would respond and let him know that I was not on a dating site seeking platonic friendships. If a guy took me out and gave me the no chemistry let's be friends line, I would view that as a kiss off and decline his offer of a consellation prize.

 

If I meet a guy and I am attracted to him and he isn't attracted to me, there is NO way that I would be friends with him. What for? To face the heartache of seeing him with some other woman? NO WAY!!

[tokyo]

Originally posted by Topaze

When I was doing the internet dating thing if some guy contacted me with the you seem like an interesting person. "Can we get together? I don't date Black women but I would love to be your friend." garbage. I would respond and let him know that I was not on a dating site seeking platonic friendships. If a guy took me out and gave me the no chemistry let's be friends line, I would view that as a kiss off and decline his offer of a consellation prize.

 

If I meet a guy and I am attracted to him and he isn't attracted to me, there is NO way that I would be friends with him. What for? To face the heartache of seeing him with some other woman? NO WAY!!

 

You don't know these guys at all and you are afraid of having heartaches when you see them with other women?

 

Why don't you meet them as friends and give them a chance to get to know you better and let them make their judgement on an indivual person? People have personal preferences, but they also make amends to them if they find something else about this person to be more attractive.

[Topaze]

No, if a man has dissed me and every other Black woman on the planet by saying that he does not find Black women attractive and he would never consider dating a Black woman, why would I bother waste my time meeting him? What would be the point? Why should I accept a consellation prize? When I used to go on dating sites, it was not to find platonic friendships or make networking contacts. It was to find dates, pure and simple.

[moimeme]

I think not nearly enough time has been spent on discussing his culture and heritage. Traditional Japanese folks are not very physically demonstrative at all and don't respond well to being pounced on. I think your answers will lie in reading up on Japanese culture and/or speaking to some other Japanese folks. I seriously doubt this is anything to do with the 'just friends' syndrome.

 

Secondly, saving face is such an important part of life in Japan. Since Japanese men are so afraid of being rejected that they will rarely make an attempt to ask a woman out

http://www.mynippon.com/romance/romance_guide.htm

 

And, from Japan Times:

What's a (Western) woman to do?

A basic guide to snagging that Japanese man of your dreams

http://202.221.217.59/print/features/life2004/fl20040907zg.htm

[Topaze]

moimeme,

 

Thank you SO much. This is EXTREMELY helpful. I know that because of the field he is in some women have tried the pounce on him approach and it has been a TOTAL turn off to him. I will study that guide carefully.

 

"Japanese don't touch each other," Miyuki (25) says. "So if they touch your hand, they are interested in touching you in other places."

 

Shiki (23), who spent time in Sydney, agrees that displays of affection are not always easy for the Japanese man.

 

"When I was in Sydney, I thought maybe Japanese men have a little bit of a problem to show feelings with their bodies. We think before we move, so usually we get afraid. So we don't know what to do then."

 

However, kissing is taboo in public, so you should allow yourself to be steered to a quiet place, like a park or even karaoke, after dinner.

 

While a kiss is okay on the first date, you may want to start slowly with a chaste one. Your date may even peck your hand before he kisses you on the lips, says Masa.

 

Daisuke warns about kissing on the first date: "If you want to be a serious girlfriend don't kiss on the first date. If you kiss too soon, he will lose respect (for you . . . He'll think) I don't need to try."

 

So don't give up if nothing happens on the first few dates or even for a couple of weeks. But if you become impatient, ask them where your relationship stands -- they too may be wondering.

 

Certainly, some men will try to sleep with you on the first date, but others will be so painfully shy, so it may be ages before they act.

 

 

He is spending more and more time with me. In touch with me several times a day and we are discussing increasingly personal matters. I really do need to learn more about his heritage or there may be misunderstandings. After all he did for me this weekend, he has offered to do EVEN more. I guess actions speak louder than words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again thanks.

[Topaze]

I have experienced this and I really like it:

 

 

But once that first dinner or drinks date is organized, he will try to take charge of the situation, according to Masa, who has lived in England and New Zealand.

 

"He wants to be the hero. If he has the possibility that she will say he is very strong, he's happy," he says.

 

One extreme tactic that young Japanese women often use is to act drunk -- you don't actually have to get intoxicated, though -- so the man has to take care of her.

 

Daisuke, engaged to a Briton, admits that many Japanese men think that women are sometimes weak, and so they want to help them. "We feel we are men" when we can take care of them, he says.

 

Shiki, 23, interprets the situation a bit differently: "I don't say it's because they want to be in a stronger position -- they are scared. They need some options, some choices."

 

By letting him take the lead, he will feel under less pressure to explicitly express what he wants.

 

When we go out he makes suggestions. Once we have gone someplace, he takes charge the next time and orders for me. He sets everything up beautifully...I love it.

 

He doesn't drink though so getting him tipsy won'r work. I think more of the poetry will work though

[surfgurl]

Okay you have to be like, "hmmmm. i need to ask you something. i mean, i'm not trying to be overly serious here man but....what are we? i mean, i'm not looking for a title, you know, but are you EVER going to kiss me?"

 

dude! he'll kiss you and the rest will be history.

 

or! you could tell him to close his eyes and that you've got a surprise for him. then freaking count to three (3) and lay one on him!!!

 

its not slutty, rather, its sweet and innocent.

 

he's intimidated to the highest degree, CLEARLY on account of your speech.

 

good luck and please tell me how it works out!!!!!!

 

[Donut]

Everything you've said indicates that maybe he does see you as more than a friend. Especially reading poetry, spending lots of time with you etc.

 

Maybe he's scared of ruining what has now become a good friendship?

 

It would be a good idea to tell him you're developing feelings for him, and see what happens.

 

At least then you'll have your answer either way, then you can act accordingly on his reaction.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by kooky

Born again Christians? Uff, I don't know, they seem to be more fanatical than normal Christians. You definitely chose a group who is not that open to crossing the racial boundaries.

 

 

Hey Kooky, play nicely please A lot of my family fall into this category and they are way more racially tolerant than the mainstream.

[ReluctantRomeo]

I agree with what has been said about Japanese culture... sounds like he may be following a Japanese courtship script rather than an American one.

 

A possible subtle approach? You could ask him relationship questions disguised as cultural ones. Start off with innocent stuff like "how Japanese do you consider yourself?", "what do you do if...", "what does it mean if..." and work up to ones like "what does it mean when a Japanese guy takes a girl to dinner?" and "what is expected of me at this point?".

[Topaze]

I like that. I can even ask what kissing means in Japanese culture or share an article about it with him. I would like to find a site that describes what is typical in a Japanese courtship.

 

We are getting together tomorrow. I can hardly wait. He came over last Fridany and we went out and he came over again on Sunday. We've talked many times a day every day this week.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Go girl! This is sounding good