You're right, women have it easier. Now what?

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I see so many men complaining about how much easier women have in when dating and making wild accusations about them (us) putting in little to no effort in any aspect of the process because we simply don't have to. I also see a ton of complaints and generalizations about how we're all superficial, gold-digging liars of whom 80% of us spend 100% of our time sleeping with the "top 20%" of the male population (dem stats tho!) and I can't help but think, ok, and?

 

Now, obviously I think this is ridiculous but let's stop for a moment and say this is partially, largely or hell, even completely true. I'd like to know what comes next. Especially for the single guys who complain about the current state of the dating scene.What are we (society) supposed to do? What is supposed to change?

 

Since we women have it so much easier to find a partner (and a suitable one at that!) without having to lift a finger why the hell would we change our behavior? Most people don't actively work to make their lives HARDER you know. And if the men (those lucky couple hundred of them in the entire world!) who are getting women continue to be successful at it they sure as hell aren't going to change in order to "even the scales" so what should happen?

 

I'd like to know what is the bottom line here? What's the outcome men who aren't getting women are hoping for? That things somehow become more "fair" and women are forced to date them? That no one dates? I don't get it.

[KFuPanda]

hahahahahahahahaha...

 

It's mostly butt hurt men, but I'll play along.

 

I find it therapeutic to know that the girls who reject me are going to get their hearts broken by the bad boys

 

I also like to not be their friend. I'm no lean on guy. Unless she was a friend before, or somehow is respect worthy.

 

The truth is, I just became one of those guys instead. It's not hard. Get some confidence, fake it till you make it. I also pulled my PhD and got into a little bit better shape.

 

Every now and then, I know a girl rejects me because I am chubby, or not rich enough, etc... My favorite thing to do is to blow it off like a boss, doesn't even phase me, then flirt successfully with a girl in their face. They get all sorts of huffy.

 

Alright, that is when I am vindictive, now for reality..

 

Shallow girls aren't worth my time, so I keep trucking until I find the top 20% female girls, the ones that judge me for my character and my sense of humor, not whether I am 180 cm tall or rocking a six pack. They exist, but guys need to realize their hunting for the top, not the average woman. The average woman is nothing. Of course it is going to be hard and take constitution. Rejection after rejection.

 

Realize most girls aren't worth your time and you stop looking desperate.

[johan]

It's a good question I'd say. If a certain behavior is getting you the results you want, then what is the incentive to change?

 

Most people expect that men would face the facts of life with some level of stoicism and resolve. "If this is the playing field, then how do I adapt and find some success?" Not every guy is cut out to be stoic or resolute, and many would rather the world adapt itself to provide the success they feel entitled to.

 

It always appears to me that the opposite of stoicism is whine-icism. And the opposite of resolve is to do nothing. The world will never be a comfortable place for a guy whose default strategies are to complain and do nothing.

 

Even if a stream of women were passing through that guy's bedroom, there would be no more happiness than there is now. A relationship doesn't change who you are or fix anything. More often it makes it more obvious what needs to be fixed, and, again if you lack the ability to adapt, the relationship just becomes a source of misery itself. Ultimately you just find yourself online posting nasty things about your ex, blaming her for what went wrong.

[Tayken]

Especially for the single guys who complain about the current state of the dating scene.What are we (society) supposed to do? What is supposed to change?

First off...I have no problem getting women. I am a single man that has all his $h1t together with a professional career job for life.

 

What is to change?

 

1. Drop the head games/ drama..Llama

2. Get a real career as opposed to just some job that pays

3. No feeling of entitlement, after all I am not looking to be a dad to an adult woman

4. Mutual respect and communication needs to be worked on.

5. More teamwork

6. There should be not emotional blackmail just because someone didn't get their way

7. If you are not ready for a relationship, don't put yourself out there because all your friends are dating

8.

 

I can go on but this is a good starter. Yes there is no doubt that any woman that posts a pic on a dating site will get loads of men messaging them, but that should not be taken as "I am so great everybody wants me". What it means most of the time, is that those guys just want to hit it and run.

 

Personally, a woman that doesn't have a myriad of other things to offer me apart from sex (which I can get anywhere), isn't worth that much to me. I look at a profile, and if there is no content to the provocative pics, I just move on.

 

I have been known to turn down on a platter "booties" before because there was nothing else there. As a matter of fact, there is one currently texting me like crazy telling me things she will like to do to me, and how she misses the wood.

[johan]

What is to change?

 

1. Drop the head games/ drama..Llama

2. Get a real career as opposed to just some job that pays

3. No feeling of entitlement, after all I am not looking to be a dad to an adult woman

4. Mutual respect and communication needs to be worked on.

5. More teamwork

6. There should be not emotional blackmail just because someone didn't get their way

7. If you are not ready for a relationship, don't put yourself out there because all your friends are dating

8.

 

 

Good advice for both men and women. Except #3 would have to be about being a mother to an adult man.

[Tayken]

Good advice for both men and women. Except #3 would have to be about being a mother to an adult man.

 

 

The response was in line with what the OP asked for i.e. targeted at men, single ones at that. However, I hear what you are saying....I personally don't have any respect for men (I mean boys), who scrounge off women.

 

I have never lived off a woman in my life (not counting my mom), and I don't plan to change that anytime soon.

[Cristo]

I see so many men complaining about how much easier women have in when dating and making wild accusations about them (us) putting in little to no effort in any aspect of the process because we simply don't have to. I also see a ton of complaints and generalizations about how we're all superficial, gold-digging liars of whom 80% of us spend 100% of our time sleeping with the "top 20%" of the male population (dem stats tho!) and I can't help but think, ok, and?

 

Now, obviously I think this is ridiculous but let's stop for a moment and say this is partially, largely or hell, even completely true. I'd like to know what comes next. Especially for the single guys who complain about the current state of the dating scene.What are we (society) supposed to do? What is supposed to change?

 

Since we women have it so much easier to find a partner (and a suitable one at that!) without having to lift a finger why the hell would we change our behavior? Most people don't actively work to make their lives HARDER you know. And if the men (those lucky couple hundred of them in the entire world!) who are getting women continue to be successful at it they sure as hell aren't going to change in order to "even the scales" so what should happen?

 

I'd like to know what is the bottom line here? What's the outcome men who aren't getting women are hoping for? That things somehow become more "fair" and women are forced to date them? That no one dates? I don't get it.

 

I'd like women to admit this fact.

 

Those of us that are unattractive have enough of a difficult time as it is. We really don't need to be constantly told that we're defective internally. We already know that we are defective externally so this doesn't help. I'd just like some understanding.

 

With that said, I am doing all that I can to change my situation. I think most people don't realize how difficult it truly is for a short and ugly guy.

[carhill]

You're right, women have it easier. Now what?

 

Accept it and decide whether or not the winning move is not to play.

[MissBee]

I see so many men complaining about how much easier women have in when dating and making wild accusations about them (us) putting in little to no effort in any aspect of the process because we simply don't have to. I also see a ton of complaints and generalizations about how we're all superficial, gold-digging liars of whom 80% of us spend 100% of our time sleeping with the "top 20%" of the male population (dem stats tho!) and I can't help but think, ok, and?

 

Now, obviously I think this is ridiculous but let's stop for a moment and say this is partially, largely or hell, even completely true. I'd like to know what comes next. Especially for the single guys who complain about the current state of the dating scene.What are we (society) supposed to do? What is supposed to change?

 

Since we women have it so much easier to find a partner (and a suitable one at that!) without having to lift a finger why the hell would we change our behavior? Most people don't actively work to make their lives HARDER you know. And if the men (those lucky couple hundred of them in the entire world!) who are getting women continue to be successful at it they sure as hell aren't going to change in order to "even the scales" so what should happen?

 

I'd like to know what is the bottom line here? What's the outcome men who aren't getting women are hoping for? That things somehow become more "fair" and women are forced to date them? That no one dates? I don't get it.

 

 

Great thread.

 

I'm curious to know as well. But not really. Since the world still spins as far as I know, men and women are still dating, people are still marrying and having babies and so on...so clearly a large majority of the world manages to date and mate and the human population isn't declining, sooooo I don't particularly think it's any kind of crisis but for a few who who may be misguided...nonetheless I'm curious about what the proposed solution should be.

[Snaggletooth]

It's a good question I'd say. If a certain behavior is getting you the results you want, then what is the incentive to change?

 

Most people expect that men would face the facts of life with some level of stoicism and resolve. "If this is the playing field, then how do I adapt and find some success?" Not every guy is cut out to be stoic or resolute, and many would rather the world adapt itself to provide the success they feel entitled to.

 

It always appears to me that the opposite of stoicism is whine-icism. And the opposite of resolve is to do nothing. The world will never be a comfortable place for a guy whose default strategies are to complain and do nothing.

 

Even if a stream of women were passing through that guy's bedroom, there would be no more happiness than there is now. A relationship doesn't change who you are or fix anything. More often it makes it more obvious what needs to be fixed, and, again if you lack the ability to adapt, the relationship just becomes a source of misery itself. Ultimately you just find yourself online posting nasty things about your ex, blaming her for what went wrong.

 

I mostly agree but something should be remembered, many of these lads have never had a strong father in their life to teach them and set the example. They're having to learn as adults what the rest of us learnt as boys. They're learning it from drongos and bellends on youtube rather than someone who genuinely cares about them. I can't imagine how tough that must be.

 

Sure, they can be whiny, frustrating and easy targets to ridicule, but they don't have it easy.

 

Secondly, some fellas do get completely screwed over by women and often the internet is the only place they can vent. Once upon a time it might have been the fella propping up the bar and bending an listening ear. It does no harm to let them vent for while. Mostly all they want is the equivalent of bartender to nod their head and give them a few minutes of his day, then they go back to their life and struggles.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I just have a hard time accepting that there is even a competition of who has it easy or not.

 

It's also very insulting to be told over and over again that none of our dating, sex, love or relationship problems are valid just because there are usually some guys who would be willing to have sex with us.

[Tayken]

men and women are still dating, people are still marrying and having babies and so on

 

1. Separate / Divorce

2. Cheat

 

1 in every 2 marriages ends in divorce.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

First off...I have no problem getting women. I am a single man that has all his $h1t together with a professional career job for life.

 

What is to change?

 

1. Drop the head games/ drama..Llama

2. Get a real career as opposed to just some job that pays

3. No feeling of entitlement, after all I am not looking to be a dad to an adult woman

4. Mutual respect and communication needs to be worked on.

5. More teamwork

6. There should be not emotional blackmail just because someone didn't get their way

7. If you are not ready for a relationship, don't put yourself out there because all your friends are dating

8.

 

I can go on but this is a good starter.

 

Right and this is a good list but in the OP I didn't ask for what you require in a mate, I asked what happens after we all openly acknowledge women have an easier time when dating.

[JuneJulySeptember]

If you actually really, really follow posters, you will find that men who tend to be angry do let go of it. They accept rejection, do take action, and do eventually find women. Hey, rejection hurts, especially if you fell hard.

 

This forum, and others just like it, becomes really just a battleground of a gender war, M vs F, and whiners versus stoics (or at least those who consider themselves stoics).

 

I mean, there are a few posters who really try and just bash women and bash women. But by and large, whiner guys are real humans.

 

It becomes just arguments and trying to win arguments and posters say things like "You suck at getting women because you are a horrible person." without really thinking there is a person behind the other screen.

 

Etc, etc.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I mostly agree but something should be remembered, many of these lads have never had a strong father in their life to teach them and set the example. They're having to learn as adults what the rest of us learnt as boys. They're learning it from drongos and bellends on youtube rather than someone who genuinely cares about them. I can't imagine how tough that must be.

 

Sure, they can be whiny, frustrating and easy targets to ridicule, but they don't have it easy.

 

Secondly, some fellas do get completely screwed over by women and often the internet is the only place they can vent. Once upon a time it might have been the fella propping up the bar and bending an listening ear. It does no harm to let them vent for while. Mostly all they want is the equivalent of bartender to nod their head and give them a few minutes of his day, then they go back to their life and struggles.

 

And I almost never see a sentiment like this.

 

Like "I've been there" or "I know how much that sucks".

 

Or as a woman "Yea, I rejected a guy like you. That sucks."

 

It's really the right sentiment.

[NGC1300]

Now, obviously I think this is ridiculous but let's stop for a moment and say this is partially, largely or hell, even completely true. I'd like to know what comes next. Especially for the single guys who complain about the current state of the dating scene.What are we (society) supposed to do? What is supposed to change?

 

Men will simply have to stop approaching women, and paying them attention.

 

 

We all know that would never happen, but if we imagine that it did, the result would be women being forced to put in more effort and actually approach men and win the male's affection for a change.

 

 

We all know that in reality it's the other way around. Argue all you want, but in the majority of cases, the women puts in drastically less effort in any relationship she enters. She doesn't have to worry about the man deeming her a loser, and she certainly doesn't have to worry about the man breaking things off because even if he did, the next salivating male is always around the corner for her.

[ThaWholigan]

It's a pertinent topic, and if I allow myself to be completely objective and attempt to see it from the "bitter" POV, there is no "bottom line" as it were. It is simply an expression of perceived powerlessness at one's situation regarding companionship. Obviously, I believe it is merely a perception of reality rather than reality itself, but you can't tell someone that - you're denying reality as far as they are concerned!

 

I imagine that most of these guys want to feel vindicated in their angst by having their "truth" acknowledged and accepted, particularly by women. They want women to actively admit that they have an advantage in the dating world. The next step would obviously be for some to be nice enough to cede that advantage and date some nice young dude who otherwise wouldn't get much chance, but I'd imagine they'd not want to get ahead of themselves (or would they? ). Acknowledgement is enough.

 

I personally think the whole idea of an advantage in such a nuanced arena is not invalid, but to take it on wholeheartedly and despair because of it is counterproductive. It doesn't allow one the opportunity of growth IMO - I've progressively grown to believe that our difficulties in certain areas force growth. My own difficulties in dating forced me to grow to an extent. It was f*cking hard, and I have no problem acknowledging that personally, but I draw the line at blame, and allowing ones thought process to become so jaded that the entire practice of dating becomes an "all/most women do" affair.

 

I say use it as an opportunity for growth, like you would any other problem in your life. As Elliot Hulse says - "It's supposed to be f*cking hard". Anything you find difficult is an area for growth, for whatever reason. It might not seem fair, but everyone has one in different areas. Lord knows I have many areas of improvement. If your only area is how you can date, you're not doing too badly. You'll figure it out.

[ThaWholigan]

Men will simply have to stop approaching women, and paying them attention.

 

 

We all know that would never happen, but if we imagine that it did, the result would be women being forced to put in more effort and actually approach men and win the male's affection for a change.

 

 

We all know that in reality it's the other way around. Argue all you want, but in the majority of cases, the women puts in drastically less effort in any relationship she enters. She doesn't have to worry about the man deeming her a loser, and she certainly doesn't have to worry about the man breaking things off because even if he did, the next salivating male is always around the corner for her.

In my experience, if a woman wants you enough, she'll approach you.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

I'd like to know what is the bottom line here? What's the outcome men who aren't getting women are hoping for? That things somehow become more "fair" and women are forced to date them? That no one dates? I don't get it.

 

In a theoretical sense, the desired outcome would be that women would hit on and ask out those men. If those men were rejecting women they found unattractive on a fairly regular basis, you could bet it would be much less likely they would be complaining about women being too picky.

 

That's not too likely to happen, so those/us guys need to accept the fact that rejection will be a regular thing and find a way to minimize the damage.

Edited November 2, 2014 by JuneJulySeptember

[Cristo]

It's a pertinent topic, and if I allow myself to be completely objective and attempt to see it from the "bitter" POV, there is no "bottom line" as it were. It is simply an expression of perceived powerlessness at one's situation regarding companionship. Obviously, I believe it is merely a perception of reality rather than reality itself, but you can't tell someone that - you're denying reality as far as they are concerned!

 

I imagine that most of these guys want to feel vindicated in their angst by having their "truth" acknowledged and accepted, particularly by women. They want women to actively admit that they have an advantage in the dating world. The next step would obviously be for some to be nice enough to cede that advantage and date some nice young dude who otherwise wouldn't get much chance, but I'd imagine they'd not want to get ahead of themselves (or would they? ). Acknowledgement is enough.

 

I personally think the whole idea of an advantage in such a nuanced arena is not invalid, but to take it on wholeheartedly and despair because of it is counterproductive. It doesn't allow one the opportunity of growth IMO - I've progressively grown to believe that our difficulties in certain areas force growth. My own difficulties in dating forced me to grow to an extent. It was f*cking hard, and I have no problem acknowledging that personally, but I draw the line at blame, and allowing ones thought process to become so jaded that the entire practice of dating becomes an "all/most women do" affair.

 

I say use it as an opportunity for growth, like you would any other problem in your life. As Elliot Hulse says - "It's supposed to be f*cking hard". Anything you find difficult is an area for growth, for whatever reason. It might not seem fair, but everyone has one in different areas. Lord knows I have many areas of improvement. If your only area is how you can date, you're not doing too badly. You'll figure it out.

 

But you do admit that women have it easier. It would be nice if women admitted this, at the very least.

[MissBee]

1. Separate / Divorce

2. Cheat

 

1 in every 2 marriages ends in divorce.

 

Yep..since the world began these things have happened and will continue to. Most people who cheat, cheat with someone, so people are still mating, most people who divorce and separate go on to date again or remarry...

 

So still...clearly men and women, men and men and women and women have been forming romantic and sexual relationships and will continue to do so in spite of notions that only 20% of the "top" men or whatever insane figure was suggested can find someone.

[Cristo]

Yep..since the world began these things have happened and will continue to. Most people who cheat, cheat with someone, so people are still mating, most people who divorce and separate go on to date again or remarry...

 

So still...clearly men and women, men and men and women and women have been forming romantic and sexual relationships and will continue to do so in spite of notions that only 20% of the "top" men or whatever insane figure was suggested can find someone.

 

Yes, but women will sleep with the top 20% and chase those men, while settling for the other 80% only when they fail with those men.

 

This is common knowledge.

[ThaWholigan]

But you do admit that women have it easier. It would be nice if women admitted this, at the very least.

Some women do. It's not the put-your-feet-up cruise that guys seem to think, but women are more likely to get offers for sex and dates in general. That doesn't necessarily indicate ease but I guess it does to men who might feel aggrieved that they have to "work" in the game of seduction - that only indicates ease if one is desperate for such attention. At this point, it becomes an argument of "you try and live without that attention".

 

Having myself been on the end of unwanted approaches at times, I can see how UNeasy it can be for girls, as they experience that tenfold. It just depends on your perception at the end of the day. In my own experience, dating itself is no easier or harder than I expected it to be. Dealing with people and all their likes, preferences and differences is complicated.

[OwMyEyeball]

Boys who are largely raised by their mother or other feminine relatives learn the best way to achieve results (i.e. get what they want) is through gentle, kind, attentive and pitiful behaviour. Without a strong male presence to guide them through the other side of themselves - their masculinity - they wind up being rather ... feminine.

 

Once these boys hit puberty and start trying to get what they want from women outside of their family circle they come to learn that what worked for mamma and sis doesn't work for so well for Sue and Jenny at school. They see all these other boys acting in ways they know would make mamma and sis very upset, yet are shocked to see in many instances these boys get what they so desperately want as well. How can this be?

 

Unaware of the tuning of their psychology, yet in possession of a problem-solving mind that grows only more formidable through formal education - they begin to see their issues around women as a puzzle to be solved. Some internalize the problem (I'm too short, bald, ugly, fat, etc.), others externalize it (women are too this, that or the other ... society is to blame). Some try to ignore it and focus their attention elsewhere. They sublimate.

 

"Now what"? Change what you can and accept what you can't.

[OwMyEyeball]

But you do admit that women have it easier. It would be nice if women admitted this, at the very least.

How should they admit this?

 

Some kind of public decree? Poster on their door? Slogan on a mug?

 

How does their realization then subsequent proclamation in any way help you?