You're right, women have it easier. Now what?

[Maleficent]

The problem women experience in dating just seem to be so much easier to deal with then what men have.

 

Margaret Atwood disagrees with you

«Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them»

[Lernaean_Hydra]

To be honest. I'm a man with a healthy sexual appetite, and all of those women to me are attractive. Especially Zosia Mamet.

 

Even with makeup I still think Lena Dunham is looks like a pig-faced bird but thats just me. If not for her "celebrity" I'd defintely say she was a very average looking woman. However I agree with abut Zosia Mamet. I've always thought she was hot and have been weirdly attracted to her for years.

 

I'd say an actress like Kristen Schaal would be a better example of "average". She's not ugly, but she is, in my opinion, decidedly average.

 

Its true, and we should accept it. Men dont want masculine women. Masculine can mean being a better at traditionally male tasks, being too smart, generally being strong and capable. Men want someone they can come in and save. Being masculine for a woman is like a man crying on the first date.

 

I bet a couple people here are deviating from gender norms, which is probably their issue. Im not gonna be the bubbly, talkative stereotypical female, thats ok. Im not going to have the same experiences ("easy") as other women, but I am what I am.

 

I'm with you. But I think most people deviate from gender norms from time to time which healthy. No matter how feminine or masculine someone says they want their partner to be, I think very few of them would really desire someone who rigidly conforms to them and adheres to the stereotypes once they see what that actually looks like. I'd imagine it gets tiring, frustrating and quite boring.

 

However make no mistake, I also think conforming to some of those norms is beneficial when dating.

[Got it]

Maybe the media and internet make it look worse than it actually is.

 

Media and the Internet make it look like we are going to fall to world destruction either by Ebola or GMOs.

[Xiang]

For those asking for pictures on what we think a average woman looks like, sorry i can't post pics of the women i mentioned, it's private for a reason.

I can make a short refference however as to how the one i mentioned looks like.

 

Doctor Bayley from Grey's Anatomy(aka Chandra Wilson), except she doesn't have that cute face to go with it...nor is she black, just darker tanned.

But that's a pretty accurate description body wise as to how my cousin looks, would you not consider that average?

If not, that's just one example of many.

 

What luck would you say a woman like that has? As far as my cousin goes xD she has men flocking to her all over, might be her fun personality.

Just 2 weeks ago she was in the hospital(hemorargy) and had 6 men visit her of wich one proposed hahaha.

[hotpotato]

 

 

 

There is some truth to this I must agree. I have dated women who required my assistance to do pretty much everything. There was a certain warm and fuzzy feeling that came from really taking care of my woman. However, I have also dated very independent women, and I must say, it's pretty cool having an actual partner. Someone I can count on if I hit a rough patch. Both types of women have their appeal, IMO.

 

I think thats fair. Dating gurus say that a woman has to very carefully ease a man into thinking she is strong and capable. I guess the idea is for him to get those warm fuzzies in the beginning.

[preraph]

Men have a higher chance of being the victim of a violent crime overall.

 

I do agree that men get into more violence, statistically, but it's because they willingly engage in fistfights and bar brawls. Nearly all the crime against men (but not all - there are even a lot of male sex assaults) are men fighting with each other AND a big load of the stats are from violence in prison, since that's where some of the violent men end up. Nearly all violence against women is by men and nearly all violence against men is by men.

[preraph]

If she is in a relationship with an abusive guy, leave him. That also means that she ignored the signs that he would be abusive. Every woman should study up and find out the signs that say when a guy will be controlling and abusive.

 

If there are any serious problems with a guy, leave him. There are tons of great guys out there who want to date her.

 

I completely agree with that statement, but let me point out why it isn't that simple. It is simple to find a list of traits of abusive and controlling people. It is more predictable than you can even believe. It's a long list, but abusive or controlling men will easily tick off a bunch of that list. They do not come in a wide variety. They are easily spotted once you start getting to know them, with one caveat, and that is the con artist. A lot of sociopaths are great con artists. They don't have the ethical foundation others have and have no real qualms about breaking rules. They know they are different. They learn to compensate for it by faking good behavior or conning. Ted Bundy. And they don't have to become serial killers. They may be the best vacuum salesman or CEO.

 

But the real fly in the ointment is that young women, especially the age you're dating and younger, especially the ones who have not been exposed to abuse, fear and violence thus far, are inherently idealistic. They believe the fairytales we're all raised on. They think love will fix him. It won't. It's not just a small number of young girls who believe this. They nearly all start out that way -- and little wonder they are in the category of most likely to be assaulted. They don't have experience, they haven't learned the red flags firsthand. They don't want to believe love is flawed, the cute guy in chemistry is flawed. They are full of naivety and love and idealism and don't want to see it, and they believe love conquers all. That's the young naive ones.

 

Then there are the ones who did grow up with it and now think it's normal. Those are the ones you mostly see staying in an abusive relationship and bringing kids into the picture. Because for whatever reason, they didn't rebel against it and realize it's not normal. Maybe they didn't get far enough out into the world to put their family into perspective. Maybe they just feel trapped and have no skills to deal with it even though they know it's wrong because their parents had the same problems and no skills to pass on to them.

 

And if a lot of guys are honest, this is one reason men of all ages like the young naive girls. They are easier to manipulate because of their lack of experience. Though the obstacle there and the control factor is that they probably have a strong family behind them whose dad might just kick somebody's *ss for taking advantage.

[RedRobin]

And if a lot of guys are honest, this is one reason men of all ages like the young naive girls. They are easier to manipulate because of their lack of experience. Though the obstacle there and the control factor is that they probably have a strong family behind them whose dad might just kick somebody's *ss for taking advantage.

 

 

Yep.........

[TouchedByViolet]

This thread was started by an attractive girl in her early 20's who doesn't know the definition of difficult when it comes to dating

 

Men often complain because they struggle to get dates, kisses, anything romantic... Women complain because their bf or SO is being an *******(or insert some complaint). Worlds apart. Yes there are legit struggling women and I empathize with them, but they are rare. There is a struggling guy making a thread here every week.... I think complaining and frustration is just a normal process many guys go through. They will get over it and so can everyone else who has to listen to it.

[NJ123]

This thread was started by an attractive girl in her early 20's who doesn't know the definition of difficult when it comes to dating

 

Men often complain because they struggle to get dates, kisses, anything romantic... Women complain because their bf or SO is being an *******(or insert some complaint). Worlds apart. Yes there are legit struggling women and I empathize with them, but they are rare. There is a struggling guy making a thread here every week.... I think complaining and frustration is just a normal process many guys go through. They will get over it and so can everyone else who has to listen to it.

 

I'd say there is some truth to this post... But it's not all men & women that do this but a good percentage do.

[Priv]

And if a lot of guys are honest, this is one reason men of all ages like the young naive girls. They are easier to manipulate because of their lack of experience. Though the obstacle there and the control factor is that they probably have a strong family behind them whose dad might just kick somebody's *ss for taking advantage.

 

 

Well Preraph, I was with you up till thinking men should wear dresses because you know... why not and could be fun

 

 

But this? No, ah ah. I believe all the stories about the women being used/abused/whatever. Same as pretty much identical stories of men being used/abused/whatever.

 

 

But coming from my lifetime experience and not that of LS stories, the men I have met in my life save few have NEVER EVER thought of younger women being easily manipulated prey. A lot would fall for younger women for sure. That's pretty much in our genes. But there is no one gene telling us 'easy victim'.

 

 

Men aren't inherintly evil manipulators... if anything, men are as idealistic as women. We are talking young ones here. How would you explain that young men experience more negative effects due to relational stress than young women?

[aussietigerwolf]

Yes women can get sex anytime we want and yes woman can get dates as well but... The problem lies in why the date is being offered... Most dates are offered with the expectation that the woman will "put out" at the end, not because they are interested in the woman or even a relationship. That's why women say they don't get it easier... They don't want to just hook up or be taken out just because the guy thinks he's buying sex.

[preraph]

Maybe they're right, I don't know. My GF is kinda in the middle. She definitely relies on me to handle a lot of "man work," but she is also pretty reliable if I need something too.

 

 

 

Most fist fights aren't between two guys who actually want to fight. More often than not, one guy is starting crap, and the other guy is just defending themselves. Most men are quite aware of the threat of violence all around them, which is why many of us known better than to talk smack to the big guy sitting at the bar. I know I got jumped by a group of guys and left lying unconscious in a parking lot because I was beating one of them in a fight and his buddies decided to hit me in the back of the head with a brick. I didn't start that fight either.

 

Well, yeah, but see, if you are talking smack, you are participating. I think most of us can pick out the guy or guys at the bar who have a chip on their shoulder. Also, a whole lot of the fights are fighting over a woman. Or a ball game. Sadly.

[Woggle]

Its true, and we should accept it. Men dont want masculine women. Masculine can mean being a better at traditionally male tasks, being too smart, generally being strong and capable. Men want someone they can come in and save. Being masculine for a woman is like a man crying on the first date.

 

I bet a couple people here are deviating from gender norms, which is probably their issue. Im not gonna be the bubbly, talkative stereotypical female, thats ok. Im not going to have the same experiences ("easy") as other women, but I am what I am.

 

I don't believe that to be true but most men want a woman with a feminine demeanor just like women want a man with masculine demeanor.

[preraph]

Well Preraph, I was with you up till thinking men should wear dresses because you know... why not and could be fun

 

 

But this? No, ah ah. I believe all the stories about the women being used/abused/whatever. Same as pretty much identical stories of men being used/abused/whatever.

 

 

But coming from my lifetime experience and not that of LS stories, the men I have met in my life save few have NEVER EVER thought of younger women being easily manipulated prey. A lot would fall for younger women for sure. That's pretty much in our genes. But there is no one gene telling us 'easy victim'.

 

 

Men aren't inherintly evil manipulators... if anything, men are as idealistic as women. We are talking young ones here. How would you explain that young men experience more negative effects due to relational stress than young women?

 

 

I didn't say they were and I don't think MOST men try to stick with that age group, though they indeed may find them fresh and lovely, as they certainly are. But the controlling and abusive ones certainly do find this an easier flock to fleece. And I have to say that when I hear men in general talk about "baggage," I believe they're mostly talking about women with enough experience to spot a problem. I've heard an awful lot of guys online and in person say they like the young ones because they don't have baggage. I think in some cases that means they don't have defenses up because they are inexperienced and naive. Not saying all of them, but a lot of them.

 

As far as men in dresses, you're talking to an old glam rocker, so....I've spent a few hours watching men put on at least makeup and do their big hair and borrowing my scarves, jackets and accessories. I'm not exactly a stick in the mud in that regard, though can't say men in dresses was ever my thing. I did have a friend who was into all that though and let me know by dressing up like me and taking a Polaroid. It's not my thing, but I'm very open minded about gender bending in general.

 

And on the male abuse, it is even more underreported than female abuse, especially rape. I had an aunt I believe abused her husband, and I've had two gay male friends who were in abusive relationships. One guy was huge. I have to believe he fought back.

[ascendotum]

Its true, and we should accept it. Men dont want masculine women. Masculine can mean being a better at traditionally male tasks, being too smart, generally being strong and capable. Men want someone they can come in and save. Being masculine for a woman is like a man crying on the first date.

 

I bet a couple people here are deviating from gender norms, which is probably their issue. Im not gonna be the bubbly, talkative stereotypical female, thats ok. Im not going to have the same experiences ("easy") as other women, but I am what I am.

 

Men prefer not have masculine women. Likewise women prefer more masculine men. Its a strong theme in our preferences. Its why many arrogant arsehole guys, yobs, boofheads, controlling guys, tough guy jerks, selfish guys, lazy guys, etc can easily find gfs. Its why many lazy, twatty, superficial, inspid, no initiative, dippy, self centered, demanding women can get bfs easily.

 

I don't fully buy the 'men don't want women who are better at traditionally male tasks' line though. It depends on the guy and it depends on what the 'better attribute' is. Lots of guys love an intelligent and capable woman. I know I do. If it comes with a woman who looks like Scarlett Johansson or even less womanly built Noomi Rapace, lots of guys will love such a strong capable woman as there is a strong feminine element to balance it. If the woman looked like Lena Dunham or Rosaane Barr (90s) or most female politicians, then less so. A number of women I know who use the line 'men are intimidated by strong women' as part of the reason why they are single are missing a big part of the reason. They are often also variations of - alpha in nature, have attitude, bossy, boisterous or obnoxious, self opinionated, boozey, demanding, uncompromising, low empathy, etc. These attributes as much as their less feminine look that effect their prospects, plus if they also want to date up or want a alphs type guy they limit their options with their preferences. Also lots of 'strong' guys like to come home and relax with a gf that is more nurturing and supportive.

 

Those women wont have it easier, and on the flip side guys who are not overtly masculine in look and nature will also struggle (more so in the hookup market). When people have posts lumping together all 'men' or 'women' in the post it becomes a little impractical to defend. Its a generalization. For sure you'll get outliers that will post and say what you said is rubbish because my life is not like that (even though it might be true for most of their friends). If I split my friends into 2 halves based on desirability there is definite differences in sex/relationship dynamics. The guys in the top half will more likely just shrug their shoulders over this and quite possibly agree but not be too fussed as they've done alright (some reeeally well).

[Priv]

I didn't say they were and I don't think MOST men try to stick with that age group, though they indeed may find them fresh and lovely, as they certainly are. But the controlling and abusive ones certainly do find this an easier flock to fleece. And I have to say that when I hear men in general talk about "baggage," I believe they're mostly talking about women with enough experience to spot a problem. I've heard an awful lot of guys online and in person say they like the young ones because they don't have baggage. I think in some cases that means they don't have defenses up because they are inexperienced and naive. Not saying all of them, but a lot of them.

 

As far as men in dresses, you're talking to an old glam rocker, so....I've spent a few hours watching men put on at least makeup and do their big hair and borrowing my scarves, jackets and accessories. I'm not exactly a stick in the mud in that regard, though can't say men in dresses was ever my thing. I did have a friend who was into all that though and let me know by dressing up like me and taking a Polaroid. It's not my thing, but I'm very open minded about gender bending in general.

 

And on the male abuse, it is even more underreported than female abuse, especially rape. I had an aunt I believe abused her husband, and I've had two gay male friends who were in abusive relationships. One guy was huge. I have to believe he fought back.

 

Maybe I misread it than. This sentence threw me off:

 

 

And if a lot of guys are honest, this is one reason men of all ages like the young naive girls. They are easier to manipulate because of their lack of experience.

 

 

No sh*t. Did it once for a party at uni where I got so much attention from men and women alike. Never had more attention in my life from women. I seriously think cross dressing males have it easier than women. Sadly, I just can't stand walking on heels so had to give up the lifestyle

 

 

I vaguely remember doing it once more at a gay bar with some gay mates of mine. And as a cop, handcuffs and all, that was a big hit. That does tie into the male abuse but can't exactly report it because well... kinda went willingly into their natural habitat. Ah... uni. Good times, good times!

[ComingInHot]

Maybe I misread it than. This sentence threw me off:

 

 

And if a lot of guys are honest, this is one reason men of all ages like the young naive girls. They are easier to manipulate because of their lack of experience.

 

 

No sh*t. Did it once for a party at uni where I got so much attention from men and women alike. Never had more attention in my life from women. I seriously think cross dressing males have it easier than women. Sadly, I just can't stand walking on heels so had to give up the lifestyle

 

 

I vaguely remember doing it once more at a gay bar with some gay mates of mine. And as a cop, handcuffs and all, that was a big hit. That does tie into the male abuse but can't exactly report it because well... kinda went willingly into their natural habitat. Ah... uni. Good times, good times!

 

I look at you different now Priv*

 

So, what I hear is women have it easy acquiring dates. So far I can't argue that. But from what some of you men say here, you get the date for S.E.X. To me, that doesn't seem like having it easier if the woman is looking for More than sex. You know, like a relationship and potential partner.

 

But I don't know, I don't have my first date until tomorrow.

...can I get back to ya'll on this?*

[preraph]

A number of women I know who use the line 'men are intimidated by strong women' as part of the reason why they are single are missing a big part of the reason. They are often also variations of - alpha in nature, have attitude, bossy, boisterous or obnoxious, self opinionated, boozey, demanding, uncompromising, low empathy, etc.

 

Could some of that be because in order to survive in the workplace, they had no one else to pattern after than their bossy, boisterous or obnoxious, self-opinionated, boozey, demanding, uncompromising, low empathy male bosses?

 

Look, men can like it or suck on it, but if a woman wants to really accomplish something that has historically been a man's domain, they have to get tough. I can remember exactly when I hardened into the kind of businesswoman that I knew I had to be to keep rising. At some point, you have to do what you have to do, and stop caring whether anyone likes it. At the time, the speech Bette Davis made in the back of her car in the movie "All About Eve" resonated with me. I knew I was leaving behind something, but my priorities were always clear to me. I took some actions by contacting the board of directors that weren't very popular with my male peers and superiors, including an ex, and within a week or two, the local business journal was calling me for quotes and I was getting VIP treatment from business associates that the men had been hogging.

 

I don't think it's fair to expect women to be "nurturing" in the workplace. I learned everything I know from the men who dominated that business, but when I behaved even a fraction as aggressive as they did so I could reach my goals, then I was a b*tch.

 

But take heart ladies, because though getting tough and taking your power will make enemies of some, it makes followers and admirers of others. It will seem like a divided room. But those ones on the other side were never going to do anything to benefit you anyway. Who wants to please or nurture someone who wouldn't do the same for you?

[preraph]

Maybe I misread it than. This sentence threw me off:

 

 

And if a lot of guys are honest, this is one reason men of all ages like the young naive girls. They are easier to manipulate because of their lack of experience.

 

 

No sh*t. Did it once for a party at uni where I got so much attention from men and women alike. Never had more attention in my life from women. I seriously think cross dressing males have it easier than women. Sadly, I just can't stand walking on heels so had to give up the lifestyle

 

 

I vaguely remember doing it once more at a gay bar with some gay mates of mine. And as a cop, handcuffs and all, that was a big hit. That does tie into the male abuse but can't exactly report it because well... kinda went willingly into their natural habitat. Ah... uni. Good times, good times!

 

You didn't exactly misread it. I just said "one reason."

 

Well, the trick to wearing heels when they kill you is to reserve them for short outings and for in private.

 

Sounds like a fun time at the bar. I used to go with my gay guy friends out to the gay bar once in awhile. I was a rocker and dressed kind of metaly gothic and to the gay guys, it didn't look so much rocker as "dominatrix," apparently. So I went one time in my normal clothes like that that I pretty much wore all the time, and all these guys were yelling "Work him, Honey!" We had a blast, but I think he got more attention afterward than he wanted from the big burly leather guys! I hope that what followed wasn't an unreported rape!

 

I had a lot of fun one time with a hair band I was friends with who got in a gig fight with another band. My friends all wore makeup and had big long hair and everything. The other band was from another country, not a friendly country, and that fueled part of it, I guess. But they took my band as a bunch of wussies and they were anything but. Weren't they surprised. If you're going to be in a hair band wearing makeup, you are probably going to have to get tough in a hurry or else never stop anywhere along the road...

[Woggle]

Doing that stuff in the workplace is fine but most people in general don't want somebody that approaches relationships like that. Women don't like men who act like that in the home so what makes anybody think that it will work the other way around. I know plenty of guys who can leave that at work and still be loving partners so why is that impossible for some women to do?

[BlueIris]

I think it's possible for some men and some women, impossible for some men and some women.

[preraph]

Re: don't want those traits at home (boisterous, bossy, etc.)

 

Well, I don't want it at home or anywhere else from men either. And those traits are more common to men than women.

[BlueIris]

.....

At the time, the speech Bette Davis made in the back of her car in the movie "All About Eve" resonated with me.

......

 

Ha! Great movie! And it's the Eves you have to be wary of, not the Margos! I think that lots of strong men get that.

[preraph]

Yeah, an Eve really derailed my career. And she wasn't even smart or good looking. It totally baffled me. But it was the men who enjoyed her flattery and fake neediness and sob story that made it possible.

 

And yes, the strong men do. It's true men who like strong women are fewer and far between, but they are sometimes truly amazing men.