Maleficent Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I've always found it strange that some people (men moreso than women) even care about which gender has it easier. I mean, there's like 145,253 more important things in the world to worry about... End thread. Thank you very much! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 What!?! First, how do you know it was a man? Sounds like you are guessing and then secondly, who cares who said it first? What does that matter? That is just foolish. What is original any more? It doesn't nullify what is being said. And having one gender say it or another shouldn't factor in. The sheer fact that seems to factor in for you speaks volumes. The advice was not geared solely to women. It was for both genders. What an absolute foolish and defeatist mentality. I like giving credit where credit is due. This person you quoted does not deserve that credit. How foolish of you to assume she is quote worthy of nothing more than regurgitation. And lazy to think it doesn't matter. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OwMyEyeball Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I would interested in what evidence exists for all of this. Not anecdotal but actual demographic data and independent evidence. Like in articles and stuff. Not just blogs. Why let facts get in the way of a good argument? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 One item I would like to see balanced is payment for dates. In previous generations when women had no money of their own, the man paying made sense. I don't see what the man is paying for now. In one year of unsuccessful dating, I spent well over $5,000. I admit that a large part of that was my own foolishness for not properly detecting disinterest early enough. The point still remains though: Dating is a gamble for men who generally invest more money. I believe costs should be split early on until a relationship is defined. Both parties she be investing equally early on. Somehow, all of the above doesn't make me eager to invite you out for dinner and pay for it. I recommend you try early dates for coffee, drinks, hiking, boat show etc. Link to post Share on other sites
EngnimaticResponse Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 40 dates is a lot. I haven't been on a date in 6 months, so relativity I guess. I'm sure a woman who went on 365 dates a year and never met a single one worth seeing again would consider that unsuccessful and difficult as well. But 40 is a lot. that's like one every 9 days. I have not had 40 dates in the entire 23 years I have been attempting to do so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Somehow, all of the above doesn't make me eager to invite you out for dinner and pay for it. I recommend you try early dates for coffee, drinks, hiking, boat show etc.This is a thread discussing the how dating is easier for women. This is one aspect in which dating is easier for women. Is this not a valid part of the discussion? I don't expect anyone else to pay for my dinner. Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 This is a thread discussing the how dating is easier for women. This is one aspect in which dating is easier for women. Is this not a valid part of the discussion? I don't think the fact that a guy might pay for my dinner makes dating easier for me. If you guys really want to have a discussion rather than continue to insist that you know everything, you would have to listen. I agree that it's easier for women to find somebody to have sex with. I agree that it's easier for a woman to find a rich guy to pay her bills than it is for a man to find a rich woman (or guy) to pay his bills. I do NOT agree that dating is easier for the average woman. Even if she is gorgeous. Sure there are some great looking women who are superficial, but if she's not, I promise you that it is not a good experience to have no man who dates you interested in knowing you at all. If you are not so great looking - well, it's not easy. And what if you're older? I think it's kind of funny that the same guys who are here insisting on how easy women have it are on a different thread talking about how minuscule a woman's window of desirability is. Dating is pretty easy for confident, good looking, charming, interesting, social people. Boys and girls both. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think dating is easy for the emotionally resilient. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think the fact that a guy might pay for my dinner makes dating easier for me. If you guys really want to have a discussion rather than continue to insist that you know everything, you would have to listen. I agree that it's easier for women to find somebody to have sex with. I agree that it's easier for a woman to find a rich guy to pay her bills than it is for a man to find a rich woman (or guy) to pay his bills. I do NOT agree that dating is easier for the average woman. Even if she is gorgeous. Sure there are some great looking women who are superficial, but if she's not, I promise you that it is not a good experience to have no man who dates you interested in knowing you at all. If you are not so great looking - well, it's not easy. And what if you're older? I think it's kind of funny that the same guys who are here insisting on how easy women have it are on a different thread talking about how minuscule a woman's window of desirability is. Dating is pretty easy for confident, good looking, charming, interesting, social people. Boys and girls both.I'm only commenting on this singular component of dating. I have refrained from commenting on the other aspects as I have nothing to add at this time. By definition (in this aspect only) a woman has it easier. One person is investing time while the other person is investing time and money. One is investing more thus the other has it easier. Perhaps this is balanced out somewhere and I'm open to hearing about it. I don't make any claims to having all the answers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If you are not so great looking - well, it's not easy. And what if you're older? I think it's kind of funny that the same guys who are here insisting on how easy women have it are on a different thread talking about how minuscule a woman's window of desirability is. Seriously! Isn't the position really that dating is easy for attractive women who are 18-23 years old? Everyone else...forget it. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) By definition (in this aspect only) a woman has it easier. One person is investing time while the other person is investing time and money. One is investing more thus the other has it easier. Perhaps this is balanced out somewhere and I'm open to hearing about it. I don't make any claims to having all the answers. If you want to be that precise about it, I'm pretty sure that for many if not most women that money investment is likely balanced out with the money women spend making themselves look like attractive women - makeup, hair, fashion, etc. - which also takes a lot of time. I don't consider myself particularly high maintenance, but there are still a lot of details that I feel compelled to pay attention to - and spend money on - to look like a socially acceptable, datable woman. Edited November 5, 2014 by lollipopspot Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think the fact that a guy might pay for my dinner makes dating easier for me. I think it does when the 'date' procedure is expanded in view. I would hear about the dates numerous of the women I've worked with where before they were going out out that Fri/Sat they already knew they were just meh over the guy, but it was a night out. These guys knew they were career women so didn't want to be skimpy knowing there was competition, so it was a drinks, nice restaurant, taxi maybe and a show - could have lightened their wallet for $250. So the guy initiated the date, planned the date, paid for the date. I think that makes things easier. I realise that does not encompass all dates by any means..ie coffee dates or dates where the woman is does not do it for entertainment or she is not fussy and doesn't need many to find someone. I'm not making a big deal out of the payment issue personally but I dont buy its not a positive dating aspect for women. I'll swap. Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) I would be extremely uncomfortable with someone paying $250 for a date, and I've never gone on any type of date that comes anywhere close to that. Unless the person paying is very wealthy or really wants to go to some event and wants to pay for company, that's way too much. Edited November 5, 2014 by lollipopspot 1 Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think it does when the 'date' procedure is expanded in view. I would hear about the dates numerous of the women I've worked with where before they were going out out that Fri/Sat they already knew they were just meh over the guy, but it was a night out. These guys knew they were career women so didn't want to be skimpy knowing there was competition, so it was a drinks, nice restaurant, taxi maybe and a show - could have lightened their wallet for $250. So the guy initiated the date, planned the date, paid for the date. I think that makes things easier. I realise that does not encompass all dates by any means..ie coffee dates or dates where the woman is does not do it for entertainment or she is not fussy and doesn't need many to find someone. I'm not making a big deal out of the payment issue personally but I dont buy its not a positive dating aspect for women. I'll swap. If the guy is planning the date, he can hardly blame the woman because he chose to spend $250. Just plan something cheaper. Spending $250 on a first date is really unnecessary, even if she's a "career woman." However, some guys don't mind spending that and are happy to have a companion with them for the evening to try out a new restaurant or go see a show they've been wanting to see, so you really can't say they get nothing out of it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OwMyEyeball Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If the guy is planning the date, he can hardly blame the woman because he chose to spend $250. Just plan something cheaper. Spending $250 on a first date is really unnecessary, even if she's a "career woman." However, some guys don't mind spending that and are happy to have a companion with them for the evening to try out a new restaurant or go see a show they've been wanting to see, so you really can't say they get nothing out of it. Yes, yes. But on the grand cosmic scale this imbalance still places women at a higher advantage than men. It's this kind of brash entitlement by women that leads to no clearer course of action than to slash education and social security funding. And maybe have a war or two on the side. How are those related? Who cares, no one's paying attention anyhow. Mwahahahaha 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ufo8mycat Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 By definition (in this aspect only) a woman has it easier. One person is investing time while the other person is investing time and money. One is investing more thus the other has it easier. I still don't think this follows that women have it easier. I always offer to pay as I comfortably have the means to do so but it is generally refused. So again, how is this easier? There is CHOICE involved here on your part. You chose expensive dates and actives. You CHOSE to over invest when it probably wasn't wise to do so. Why are women (generally) accountable for your choices.... but you are not? I don't think it equates to having it easier. I think it equates to a social norm that is arguably very out dated. You can change your approach you know. Link to post Share on other sites
Tik Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I personally think the first few dates should be pretty casual. The dates I've done a bit more flashy dinner have never ended well; save that for down the track. Use the first few dates to see more how you two gel i.e. almost like you're hanging out with them but as a guy you have to make sure your intentions are coming across almost like hanging out but with romantic interest because heck, this person could be the one you spend the rest of your life 'hanging out' with. The flashy dinner date should be almost the 'wow we've really clicked, lets step it up a notch'. As such spending wise I will spend as little as possible and let myself - my personality do the talking. Be smart and find yourself a little niche or cool bar or cafe where you can take a girl out for a coffee or drinks and get to know her without all the nervous flashy stuff of a traditional dinner not to mention the price tag. Impress her with you; not your wallet. Heck I've even done a first date at maccas and still managed to pull it off Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) If the guy is planning the date, he can hardly blame the woman because he chose to spend $250. Just plan something cheaper. Spending $250 on a first date is really unnecessary, even if she's a "career woman." However, some guys don't mind spending that and are happy to have a companion with them for the evening to try out a new restaurant or go see a show they've been wanting to see, so you really can't say they get nothing out of it. I realize the women did not ask them to spend the money but they judged them negatively if they didn't. Not to their face though, but the guys could well have worked with similar women and heard them complain plus guessed their lifestyle they accustomed to. The $ also included the guy. Generalizing, I found the less good looking guys tended to spend more and give her good night out hoping to offset their lower desirablity. Most of the womanizers I knew tended to be thrifty when it came to women. They had many to get through + their looks/charm made the good impression. At nightclubs it would be free date, the other guys (chumps) would buy the girls drinks hoping to keep the girl around and get her drunk and get lucky but the girls when charged up with cocktails would have sufficient courage to move on to the guys they really wanted to go home with. Not exactly dating but a good alternative. Edited November 5, 2014 by ascendotum 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tik Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 This is a lot of it, true. The people on their hands and knees, crying, and screaming to the sky about the unfairness of life each time they get turned down will not do well, regardless of gender. Me, I generally don't give a dam if a date pans out or not. Other than a few rough spots, I have always done well with women. I think my attitude is 99% of it. This is why it is so encouraged that people focus on themselves as opposed to placing their happiness in others. The more you further yourself the more you are proud and happy of you and knowing yourself. Then when you meet someone, dating does not become a be all or end all. Stereotypes and statistics aside that is all it is; two people seeing if they connect or not - none of this then general classification that either gender has it easier or not because when a guy and girl are that attracted to each other, they make it easy for both. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Zen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 No, it is internally consistent. Mister Zen is generally disagreeable with anything that doesn't support his personal experience. He spoke of "no good argument" that is - one that supports his view. Who on this site isn't? There have been some good counter arguments as to why women do not have less options as they age. It might depend on where you live and your socio-economic status. It is entirely likely that both men and women have relationships gaps as they age but that does not mean that they won't partner up later in life. I never said they won't partner up. I never said older women have ZERO options. Just less. I repeat: JUST LESS. There is no denying it either. It might be an uncomfortable or inconvenient truth, but it is a truth nonetheless. Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Zen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Where are you getting this stuff from? I never said there was no reason for a man to prefer a younger woman nor was that the implication. I said some men prefer older women for various reasons. That's just an undeniable fact. No one is disagreeing women have less options as they age - as does everyone. I am, however, firmly disagreeing with the supposition that circumstances are as dire as you - and a few others - make them out to be. Men actually have more dating options as they age to a point. I'd say the cap is around 40. For women it starts decreasing in their 20's. And there is no denying it either. Edited November 6, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Zen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If you want to be that precise about it, I'm pretty sure that for many if not most women that money investment is likely balanced out with the money women spend making themselves look like attractive women - makeup, hair, fashion, etc. - which also takes a lot of time. I don't consider myself particularly high maintenance, but there are still a lot of details that I feel compelled to pay attention to - and spend money on - to look like a socially acceptable, datable woman. I think a lot of women exaggerate the cost and difficulty of looking presentable. Its really not expensive or hard at all. If you want to buy name-brand everything then that's a different story. But in that case its your own fault. Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Zen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I still don't think this follows that women have it easier. I always offer to pay as I comfortably have the means to do so but it is generally refused. So again, how is this easier? There is CHOICE involved here on your part. You chose expensive dates and actives. You CHOSE to over invest when it probably wasn't wise to do so. Why are women (generally) accountable for your choices.... but you are not? I don't think it equates to having it easier. I think it equates to a social norm that is arguably very out dated. You can change your approach you know. Approaching a woman and convincing her to go out with you is more difficult than waiting to be approached and saying "yes". So even when you take the money out of it.. the man still does more work. The act of dating is easier for women period. Finding a quality partner and/or making a relationship work is equally difficult on both sides. Link to post Share on other sites
sillyanswer Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Seriously! Isn't the position really that dating is easy for attractive women who are 18-23 years old? Everyone else...forget it. I'm sure we can generalise: Dating is easy for those who find it so. (and, by extension, those who struggle seem to like to blame the other side and accuse them of having it easy) Edited November 6, 2014 by sillyanswer 4 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 For those who find dating difficult, I hate to tell you that marriage isn't going to be any easier Like dating, it's enjoyable for some, painful for others, and those who struggle tend to blame the opposite sex. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
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