You're right, women have it easier. Now what?

[lollipopspot]

Look at Somedude. He used to be on these threads every day, complaining about women. Do you see him on here? He and I have actually had private conversations about that.

 

Man, I used to jump in these threads and attack women for turning down men or not feeling attraction for them and make them feel guilty about it.

 

I like SD, so no offense to him, but he did have women who liked him, just not the decade-plus younger women with pretty faces and large breasts that he wanted. I believe most any guy can get a date, but not with the most conventionally attractive woman. That's life. Some men believe that they're owed more attractive women, or they've let porn train them to believe only a certain type of woman with a certain body type is attractive. It's not like less conventionally attractive women are getting all these dates. One was recently turned down by SD, who is so desperate for dates he's at times suicidal. Imagine that. Some guy would rather kill himself because of loneliness, but you're not good enough for him to see as companionship because he doesn't think your face is attractive. These guys who think it's so easy for women are clearly not thinking about their female counterparts.

[lollipopspot]

I admit that when I had a sort of casual relationship with a woman who was attractive enough to be a model it felt great walking down the street and being seen with her. Maybe that makes me shallow but if anybody man or woman is honest with themselves they would like it as well.

 

I'm honest with myself, and I really don't give a **** about that. I don't see men as trophies. He just needs to be right for me.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I like SD, so no offense to him, but he did have women who liked him, just not the decade-plus younger women with pretty faces and large breasts that he wanted. I believe most any guy can get a date, but not with the most conventionally attractive woman. That's life. Some men believe that they're owed more attractive women, or they've let porn train them to believe only a certain type of woman with a certain body type is attractive. It's not like less conventionally attractive women are getting all these dates. One was recently turned down by SD, who is so desperate for dates he's at times suicidal. Imagine that. Some guy would rather kill himself because of loneliness, but you're not good enough for him to see as companionship because he doesn't think your face is attractive. These guys who think it's so easy for women are clearly not thinking about their female counterparts.

 

I don't really think so, no.

 

Most guys would be happy to be with women at their level.

 

Are you saying you've never turned down a guy who is around your level, somebody where you'd be walking down the street and people could think you were a couple?

 

I have been turned down by a number of women who could literally be my sister.

 

I think that's the main reason guys complain TBH. Because they DON'T go for the hottest women. They go for average women and expect those women should like them.

 

Not the case. Women like what they like. You cannot feel entitled for her to like you because you are generally on the same level.

[lollipopspot]

Most guys would be happy to be with women at their level.

 

I'm not convinced in any way that the woman that SD turned down was "below" him.

 

People like what they like, sure.

 

But if you're consistently getting turned down, you're probably consistently aiming for something that is not at your "level" whatever that might mean.

 

Most every man can indeed get dates. But they need to look at the above, if they really want love and companionship. Elliot Rodgers did not kill people because he couldn't get dates, he killed people because he couldn't get the "hot women" he felt he was owed.

[Woggle]

I don't really think so, no.

 

Most guys would be happy to be with women at their level.

 

Are you saying you've never turned down a guy who is around your level, somebody where you'd be walking down the street and people could think you were a couple?

 

I have been turned down by a number of women who could literally be my sister.

 

I think that's the main reason guys complain TBH. Because they DON'T go for the hottest women. They go for average women and expect those women should like them.

 

Not the case. Women like what they like.

 

 

To be honest I can somewhat see where women are coming from with this. I know as a man the worst situation I can ever find myself in is being the settle guy. I would rather live a life of celibacy than be with a woman who didn't really fancy me but was with me because I was safe or because her clock was ticking or all her friends were getting married or whatever. It is hell for a man so I understand why a woman wouldn't want to be with a man who went for her because he couldn't get the women he really wanted.

These are the kind of guys who cheat when some woman who makes a sport out of chasing married men takes interest in him.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

But if you're consistently getting turned down, you're probably consistently aiming for something that is not at your "level" whatever that might mean.

 

 

What are you trying to say?

 

I aim above my level? That guys get rejected because they aim above their level?

 

Once again, it's just turning into an unproductive gender war.

 

One that's going to make me feel like crap when the insults get tossed, so I step out.

[ThaWholigan]

It's only continuous venting because you choose to see it as such.

 

What I see is men maybe used to start or engage in gender threads every day, but have backed off because they realize not only does it fuel their anger, it is unproductive.

 

And eventually time heals all wounds. And wounds are responsible for the venting.

 

Look at Somedude. He used to be on these threads every day, complaining about women. Do you see him on here? He and I have actually had private conversations about that.

 

Man, I used to jump in these threads and attack women for turning down men or not feeling attraction for them and make them feel guilty about it.

 

Like I said, there is progress if you choose to see it.

 

Somedude still complains about women though. I've been more prepared to give him the time of day because he appears to mean well, he just doesn't know any better unfortunately, so we try to help him - not that he listens much . It has always been the same with the strugglers, they don't generally come from a place of hatred and we know that. But at some point, change the record or at least take some of the umpteen piles of advice that one gets given. Were I in the position (and I have been), I would take the advice (lord knows I've taken my own advice!).

 

If I'm honest though, this thread seems to be less about the strugglers and a bit more about the men who claim to do well, and seem to keep reincarnating on this forum to spread this message about women having it super easy at the expense of men and boinking the mythical top 20%, or at least engage women in false debates riddled with exaggerated stereotypes that one's looking to vindicate. It's been happening since I came to this forum, next to the red pill dudes who invade every now and then.

[lollipopspot]

What are you trying to say?

 

I aim above my level? That guys get rejected because they aim above their level?

 

Once again, it's just turning into an unproductive gender war.

 

One that's going to make me feel like crap when the insults get tossed, so I step out.

 

I haven't followed your posts and don't know your situation. I am saying general "you," no offense meant

 

But if a man can't get a date, then I think he'd best look at one or a combination of whom he is trying to date, what he brings to the table, and his method of going about getting a date.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Pretty much everybody wants a hot woman or man. Women care about physical attraction as much as any man. I am not going to judge women for it because sexual attraction is human nature but people shouldn't be hypocritical about it.

 

No, it's not hypocrisy. We're not debating the merits of who wants a "hot" partner because really that isn't the issue here. Sure we all want someone we're attracted to physically but most of us strive for a bit more when searching for a partner in earnest. There's "hot to me", as in, I, personally, am physically/sexually attracted to this person and then there is universally hot or highly attractive. I can aprecaite a beautiful man, but if Ryan Gosling with a s**ty attitude, bad conversation and entitlement issues came knocking on my door, he's getting rejected for the for the chubby Seth Rogan with a nice smile and sense of humor who was fun to be around. And I'd find Seth Rogan to be "hotter" too as my desire to jump someone's bones stems from things beyond aesthetics .

 

A common theme I see with the most disgruntled of the single guys around here is that they want not just a partner who is kind and loving and treats them well, but is also thin and busty and young to boot. If they were really just longing for love above all else they wouldn't be chasing women who not only are in high demand, but most likely wouldn't give guys like them the time of day.

 

You've got unemployed 30-something guys running around here chasing nubile 20 year olds of above average attractiveness in one breath while in the next whinging about their singlehood.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I haven't followed your posts and don't know your situation. I am saying general "you," no offense meant

 

But if a man can't get a date, then I think he'd best look at one or a combination of whom he is trying to date, what he brings to the table, and his method of going about getting a date.

 

I have gotten dates and I've had serious girlfriends yes. But I've faced a lot of rejection. And before you say that I face rejection because I'm lacking, please don't.

 

I believe what you were trying to say is that if a man asked out a woman in his league, he'd get a yes the vast majority of the time?

 

If so, I do not agree with that. And we'll end it at that.

[leavesonautumn]

 

Why did this video remind me of these threads? hmm.

[ThaWholigan]

 

Why did this video remind me of these threads? hmm.

Careful posting that!

 

In about 4 and a half minutes, someone's going to post a SNL sketch with Tom Brady in it....

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I believe what you were trying to say is that if a man asked out a woman in his league, he'd get a yes the vast majority of the time?

 

If so, I do not agree with that. And we'll end it at that.

 

 

Well if she's not saying it, I am. I know and have see a ton of guys get girls, and not just girls to screw on occasion, I'm talking girlfriends, fiancees, etc. I've also watched guy chase and pine after girls for what seemed like an eternity to no avail.

 

The guys who were successful almost always went for girls of equal attractiveness. I'm not talking the inflated well I have x amount of money in the bank and therefore my 4-level facial attractiveness means I deserve 8- level women. I mean actual equals or there abouts.

 

Meanwhile the guys who consistently struck out? These guys were going after hotties. HB9s, dime pieces, model-types, etc - whatever you wanna call them. No matter how unsuccessful this formula proved to be, they kept (and KEEP) at it. Why? F*k knows. Some of it is ego and wanting a hot girl to show off to their friends to somehow "prove" their own value. Another part was they really just didn't grasp the concept of leagues and the idea that some women were just no in theirs.

 

I have a guy friend right now, he's no more than a 6 with a very low income. Yet he continues to pursue absolutely gorgeous women that are so far beyond his reach its unbelievable. Hell, he invited one girl to a house party I was throwing and the chick actually tried to sleep with me by the end of the night.

 

We keep telling him to aim just a liiiiitle bit lower yet the girls he keeps chasing seem - inexplicably - to get just a lot-a-bit hotter. Every time. I've personally told him his "standards" are too high and he's countered that with he's not settling for s*t!

[Tayken]

Yeah, well, that's the difference. Guys mainly want sex. Women mainly want love. Some women can get sex if they're not picky, but getting love at a level they're capable of is really hard to find.

 

 

Do they really, or is just that they project that? If they really want "love", how come we hear from some guys on here willing to give just that, but get turned down because of the way they look?

 

I guess "love" = looks to women? I mean someone on here this week admitted that they will more than happily give it up to a good looking guy on the first date. I have been on the receiving end of this, and can tell you that sort of woman is not the type I would want to have a LTR with.

[Phoe]

I'm so tired of this top 20% crap.

 

I have never pursued, chased, dated, or even really interacted with such a person.

 

The regular 80% is what's appealing. Normal everyday guy, easy to find, easy to meet, no fuss.

[trippi1432]

Do they really, or is just that they project that? If they really want "love", how come we hear from some guys on here willing to give just that, but get turned down because of the way they look?

 

I guess "love" = looks to women? I mean someone on here this week admitted that they will more than happily give it up to a good looking guy on the first date. I have been on the receiving end of this, and can tell you that sort of woman is not the type I would want to have a LTR with.

 

 

Does that one woman = the top 20%?

[JuneJulySeptember]

Well if she's not saying it, I am. I know and have see a ton of guys get girls, and not just girls to screw on occasion, I'm talking girlfriends, fiancees, etc. I've also watched guy chase and pine after girls for what seemed like an eternity to no avail.

 

The guys who were successful almost always went for girls of equal attractiveness. I'm not talking the inflated well I have x amount of money in the bank and therefore my 4-level facial attractiveness means I deserve 8- level women. I mean actual equals or there abouts.

 

Meanwhile the guys who consistently struck out? These guys were going after hotties. HB9s, dime pieces, model-types, etc - whatever you wanna call them. No matter how unsuccessful this formula proved to be, they kept (and KEEP) at it. Why? F*k knows. Some of it is ego and wanting a hot girl to show off to their friends to somehow "prove" their own value. Another part was they really just didn't grasp the concept of leagues and the idea that some women were just no in theirs.

 

I have a guy friend right now, he's no more than a 6 with a very low income. Yet he continues to pursue absolutely gorgeous women that are so far beyond his reach its unbelievable. Hell, he invited one girl to a house party I was throwing and the chick actually tried to sleep with me by the end of the night.

 

We keep telling him to aim just a liiiiitle bit lower yet the girls he keeps chasing seem - inexplicably - to get just a lot-a-bit hotter. Every time. I've personally told him his "standards" are too high and he's countered that with he's not settling for s*t!

 

I think a lot of the back and forth has to do with the fact that average people and below are not attracted to those in their league, both men and women.

 

But I can SQUARELY say that is not the case for me. I've asked out all kinds of women. Women other men would laugh at. Not saying they were unattractive to me, just that guys are jerks.

[Tayken]

Does that one woman = the top 20%?

 

One woman this week, but go check the archives to see how many have admitted it. Outside the forum, am sure we all know many that have slept with men a la ONS because of looks.

[trippi1432]

One woman this week, but go check the archives to see how many have admitted it. Outside the forum, am sure we all know many that have slept with men a la ONS because of looks.

 

 

I would admit it, as a woman, if I am physically attracted to a man it would be just as easy for me to fall into bed with him as it is for a man. But no man or woman is LTR because of that one fact......what's underneath is typically demanding and selfish, no matter the gender.

Edited November 3, 2014 by trippi1432

[Tayken]

as a woman, if I am physically attracted to a man it would be just as easy for me to fall into bed with him

 

Just so you know though, they do say the best lovers are the not so good looking guys. If you are attracted to a good looking person, you are bound to be doing all the work, as they know you want them.

 

This might explain why we read on here from someone people that...after they pleasure him, he lost the zest to carry on. Now just to make it clear that we are not all like this

[sagetalk]

I'd like to know what is the bottom line here? What's the outcome men who aren't getting women are hoping for? That things somehow become more "fair" and women are forced to date them? That no one dates? I don't get it.

 

There is no bottom line, most of those guys are just venting. Most women chase the top 10% of men and most men chase the 10% of women. It just makes the non 10% people grumpy.

 

Unattractive and older women have it harder than unattractive or older men. A young attractive or even average woman does have it far easier than a young attractive or average guy. How unfair it is just depends on where you fall.

[ascendotum]

I'm not convinced in any way that the woman that SD turned down was "below" him.

 

People like what they like, sure.

 

But if you're consistently getting turned down, you're probably consistently aiming for something that is not at your "level" whatever that might mean.

 

Most every man can indeed get dates. But they need to look at the above, if they really want love and companionship. Elliot Rodgers did not kill people because he couldn't get dates, he killed people because he couldn't get the "hot women" he felt he was owed.

 

That's the bottom line. If you are consistently getting knocked back at what you desire then you are shooting above your league. the market decides, though I don't think you can say its a pure market, as people are not pairing up 1-1 for life. People can date for short term desires and not long term practicality. What I observed over the years is that the more feminine women went for the more masculine men (studies supposedly back this up). So people pair up along those lines and the last to picked ones will tend to be the less masculine men and the less feminine/elegant women. The hard luck singles of both sexes will tend to be the opposite end of the spectrum of what both want. A lot of struggling guys will also be introverted and have issues with insecurities, anxiousness, low confidence, unexciting life etc. A lot of women are the same but a lot of those women don't want that equivalent in a guy. thats distorts the market. Relating to masculine/feminine aspect, fatness also distorts the market. Percentage of men overweight is up there with the % for women, it just doesn't hit their attractiveness as hard. Skewed competition for 'pre 1970s average body' women by majority of guys. As a skinny guy I didn't think I was entitled for wanting a thin woman, but market say otherwise.

 

Most of the struggling guys I knew were not holding out for hot women. They knew since they were not getting much interest from women in general that they were not going to score a babe so didn't bother trying to approach them. I would say most of them would have wanted a girl they deemed cute or sexy in manner or style.

 

You criticized SD for wanting a gf a lot younger as an example of entitlement, valid to an extent ...now. 3 yrs ago though he would have been focusing on women 3 yrs younger, 6 yrs ago 6yrs younger, 10 yrs ago, women 10 yrs younger. He just wants what he's always wanted that he never got. It wasn't entitled in earlier years though of course we have no idea what girls he only had eyes for then. I do think women in their 30s will be more judgmental of SD so the greater but not exclusive focus on younger women is smart imo

[Lernaean_Hydra]

There is no bottom line, most of those guys are just venting. Most women chase the top 10% of men and most men chase the 10% of women.

 

Dear god the percentages are getting smaller!

[trippi1432]

Just so you know though, they do say the best lovers are the not so good looking guys. If you are attracted to a good looking person, you are bound to be doing all the work, as they know you want them.

 

This might explain why we read on here from someone people that...after they pleasure him, he lost the zest to carry on. Now just to make it clear that we are not all like this

 

 

I know...I was married to him for 15 years...took him that long to find "zest" for someone else. That's another story that some will find later down the road when "vanity" wears off.

 

 

Only had the "zest" for someone else experience once TBH....I do think that what OLD has brought out is superficiality in the entire dating experience.

[Tayken]

Dear god the percentages are getting smaller!

 

 

Ahahahahaha...that is too funny