You're right, women have it easier. Now what?

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Interesting. The way I see it, he's saying guys who act like girls (ambiguous as that is, and as though that is a negative thing) are continuing this ongoing banter. So it's not even the men themselves, it's men behaving like women causing all the problems.

 

Guys who act like girls isn't as ambiguous as you make it seem. We all know and can point out even masculine traits vs stereotypically feminine qualities.

 

As a woman, I'm attracted to masculinity. That doesn't mean an individual can't have a balance of masculine and feminine overall, but it's the masculine stuff that sparks desire.

 

Exactly. I know a lot of guys who are virtually indistinguishable from women save for the very obvious physical characteristics and that's a huge turn off for me if I'm being totally honest.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Who is this Llama you speak of, and why would men want to shag it?

 

Adrianna Llama is a Victoria's Secret model and the second cousin of Drama Llama. Guys want to shag her for her long legs and thick mane.

[Shining One]

One item I would like to see balanced is payment for dates. In previous generations when women had no money of their own, the man paying made sense. I don't see what the man is paying for now.

 

 

In one year of unsuccessful dating, I spent well over $5,000. I admit that a large part of that was my own foolishness for not properly detecting disinterest early enough. The point still remains though: Dating is a gamble for men who generally invest more money.

 

 

I believe costs should be split early on until a relationship is defined. Both parties she be investing equally early on.

[Revolver]

It's not just gender, Race and age matters a lot. A "hot" Indian guy doesn't have the same options as a "hot" white guy, a 55 year old woman doesn't have the same options as a 25 year old etc

[Lernaean_Hydra]

One item I would like to see balanced is payment for dates. In previous generations when women had no money of their own, the man paying made sense. I don't see what the man is paying for now.

 

In one year of unsuccessful dating, I spent well over $5,000. I admit that a large part of that was my own foolishness for not properly detecting disinterest early enough. The point still remains though: Dating is a gamble for men who generally invest more money.

 

I believe costs should be split early on until a relationship is defined. Both parties she be investing equally early on.

 

I'm actually very uncomfortable with men paying for my share of a date early on, especially if I'm not interested. I make it a point to go Dutch whenever possible and I've seen a lot of women say the same.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Are women really saying men would NEVER get rejected if they stay within their "league"? I doubt it. Just because somebody's in your league doesn't mean you are going to like them. It might improve the odds though.

 

That's what some posters implied.

 

Ridiculous, huh?

[Toodaloo]

What is to change?

 

1. Drop the head games/ drama..Llama Done (never did it anyway) and working to stop men doing the same to me.

2. Get a real career as opposed to just some job that pays I LOVE my job and while at the moment is is just one that pays there are eventually going to be prospects. I need to be patient and do not want to ruin my chances of losing that opportunity simply because I am not patient... besides what I do now pays my bills and for some fun. Why do I need to push to be a millionaire when I am FAR more concerned with my charity work, family, friends etc...

3. No feeling of entitlement, after all I am not looking to be a dad to an adult woman Not too sure what you mean by this. But I pay my own bills, I organise my own life and am very independent... what exactly is it that I am supposed to feel entitled to??

4. Mutual respect and communication needs to be worked on. Well isn't that obvious?

5. More teamwork To do what exactly? At the moment I am doing everything on my own anyway and at this rate if I go by this list you would currently be nothing more than a sperm donor... except point 3...

6. There should be not emotional blackmail just because someone didn't get their way Geesh what kind of girls have you been dating?

7. If you are not ready for a relationship, don't put yourself out there because all your friends are dating My friends are married!

8.

 

Personally, a woman that doesn't have a myriad of other things to offer me apart from sex (which I can get anywhere), isn't worth that much to me. I look at a profile, and if there is no content to the provocative pics, I just move on. Sex takes up 20 minutes in the day it would get very dull very quickly if you didn't get along... so can't say I blame you there

 

I have been known to turn down on a platter "booties" before because there was nothing else there. As a matter of fact, there is one currently texting me like crazy telling me things she will like to do to me, and how she misses the wood. Oh dear... at least you would get lucky

 

Responses in bold.

 

I think the problem is that we are all getting hurt, fed up and a bit down with constant disappointments. Be it becoming jadded after trying OLD for ages and not getting anywhere, a failed relationship etc...

 

Its important to remember that there is someone for everyone and while that lass texting you about your "wood" is clearly not for you she would be great for someone else...

 

I am not going to bend over backwards and do everything. Been there done that ended up with a big neon sign on my head that flashed between doormat and sucker... I want my future partner to feel useful, needed and wanted. So I am afraid I am going to ask for help putting up those shelves or evicting that spider and if I have to wait a bit to get it done (before doing it myself anyway) then so be it.

 

All this business about "leagues" is also rubbish. You can't be great at everything and its good to have a partner that compliments you by being better at some things that they are not so good at.

[Dontfindme]

Guys who act like girls isn't as ambiguous as you make it seem. We all know and can point out even masculine traits vs stereotypically feminine qualities.

 

 

 

Exactly. I know a lot of guys who are virtually indistinguishable from women save for the very obvious physical characteristics and that's a huge turn off for me if I'm being totally honest.

 

Mind pointing them out? I'm curious to know what they are.

[Imajerk17]

I gotta say that I am confused by the guys' responses on here. Not sure what you in the Struggling Man's Dating Union are asking for.

 

I struggled with women when I was younger. I worked on myself, did a bunch of approaches, became more confident and socially aware, and I got much better. Meanwhile I know plenty of guys even shorter than I am (I'm 5'6") who do even better with women. Some of them are players, some of them are happily married to a woman whom they are in love with. So it's not your height or looks that are holding you back.

 

As for whether women have it easier, I'm not sure about that. If you were a woman who was blessed with looks, then sure. But women whose looks don't get attention from guys have it much tougher than "average-looking" guys. See a guy can make up for his lack of looks with ambition and social skills and have success with dating anyway. It's much harder for a woman to do likewise. A couple of you who posted on this thread about how tough you have it, actually have turned down some of these women themselves.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Imajerk17

[hotpotato]

 

As for whether women have it easier, I'm not sure about that. If you were a woman who was blessed with looks, then sure. But women whose looks don't get attention from guys have it much tougher than "average-looking" guys. See a guy can make up for his lack of looks with ambition and social skills and have success with dating anyway. It's much harder for a woman to do likewise. A couple of you who posted on this thread about how tough you have it, actually have turned down some of these women themselves.

 

I would say that being a very attractive women in the dating world has its pitfalls, like being stalked. Also, a lot of grown men outright lying so they can have sex with you. Or maybe having a difficult time having a meaningful relationship because the guy is fixated on having sex all the time. That kind of stuff gets old.

Edited November 3, 2014 by hotpotato

[Mr Scorpio]

See a guy can make up for his lack of looks with ambition and social skills and have success with dating anyway. It's much harder for a woman to do likewise.

 

What makes you say that?

 

I saw a gal at a bar over the weekend. Although I didn't find her that attractive physically, she was still hot. Why? She had the ambition to become really good at singing and playing upright bass, and had the social skills to lead a three piece band.

[Keenly]

The only thing I want women to change is to stop going in circles.

 

 

 

Girl meets guy, dates guy, complains about guy, breaks up with guy, meets another guy who is exactly the same. Repeat about 4 times. Que Facebook post about how all men are the same.

 

 

When I see THAT it pisses me off. I personally get really pissed off when I'm lumprd in with some of the D bags that I see walking around town with girlfriends. I think to myself, wow... that guy is an *******, a loud arrogant moron who doesn't have a job or any kind of responsibility whatsoever.... is 26 and lives with his mom yet talks down and acts like everyone else is beneath him yet he gets girls?

 

 

That kind of stuff pisses me off.

 

 

 

You can have your life together and moving forward buy there is a large pool of women that flows in a giant circle . These poor women will never know a quality man because they go after such D bags.

 

 

 

That makes me sad. Not for myself, but for many others.

[MissBee]

Yes, but women will sleep with the top 20% and chase those men, while settling for the other 80% only when they fail with those men.

 

This is common knowledge.

 

This isn't common knowledge. This is made up on the spot unverified and erroneous statements. Who are the top 20% of men? What defines that and was there a census taken? Is this in the US or world over? And who are the bottom 80? How is this even quantifiable??? It's rubbish. Sorry. But if this supposed common knowledge benefits you, have at it. Now I have to go back and ask all my exes if they took the test that determined they were in the top 20 or was I dating a dreaded 80 percenter loll .

[Content]

Well if she's not saying it, I am. I know and have see a ton of guys get girls, and not just girls to screw on occasion, I'm talking girlfriends, fiancees, etc. I've also watched guy chase and pine after girls for what seemed like an eternity to no avail.

 

The guys who were successful almost always went for girls of equal attractiveness. I'm not talking the inflated well I have x amount of money in the bank and therefore my 4-level facial attractiveness means I deserve 8- level women. I mean actual equals or there abouts.

 

Meanwhile the guys who consistently struck out? These guys were going after hotties. HB9s, dime pieces, model-types, etc - whatever you wanna call them. No matter how unsuccessful this formula proved to be, they kept (and KEEP) at it. Why? F*k knows. Some of it is ego and wanting a hot girl to show off to their friends to somehow "prove" their own value. Another part was they really just didn't grasp the concept of leagues and the idea that some women were just no in theirs.

 

I have a guy friend right now, he's no more than a 6 with a very low income. Yet he continues to pursue absolutely gorgeous women that are so far beyond his reach its unbelievable. Hell, he invited one girl to a house party I was throwing and the chick actually tried to sleep with me by the end of the night.

 

We keep telling him to aim just a liiiiitle bit lower yet the girls he keeps chasing seem - inexplicably - to get just a lot-a-bit hotter. Every time. I've personally told him his "standards" are too high and he's countered that with he's not settling for s*t!

 

Ehh I don't believe that people should only go after people who's in their league so to speak in terms of looks..I think they should go after who they find attractive but if they aren't getting results do a self examination as to why you're getting rejected..

 

I've dated women much better looking then me on my level etc I don't think people should limit themselves to numbers people assign them physically..

 

I've been rejected by women I found cool but weren't anything special to look at and have been approached by women who are conventionally hot..they'res not always a rhyme or reason to attraction

[hotpotato]

This isn't common knowledge. This is made up on the spot unverified and erroneous statements. Who are the top 20% of men? What defines that and was there a census taken? Is this in the US or world over? And who are the bottom 80? How is this even quantifiable??? It's rubbish. Sorry. But if this supposed common knowledge benefits you, have at it. Now I have to go back and ask all my exes if they took the test that determined they were in the top 20 or was I dating a dreaded 80 percenter loll .

 

One could easily say it goes both ways. Its like if I cry about the kate uptons of the world get more attention from men than average girls or the roseanne barrs of the world. No shyt, really?

 

:rolleyes:

 

I hope every man complaining about attractive men gives every woman equal attention and treatment no matter her age or looks.

 

Until then. :rolleyes:

Edited November 3, 2014 by hotpotato

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Mind pointing them out? I'm curious to know what they are.

 

A list would be long and require even longer explainations so I'll just give you some brief examples from things I've experienced this year alone with guys that made me view them as less masculine than I would've liked. But before I do, understand that I'm not saying all women are this way and all men are that way.

 

Hyper-emotional - I don't mean just open with their emotions and willing to communicate, that's actually great! I mean absolutely prone to sulking or even tears at the smallest of thing. Constant mood-swings, pouting, getting upset because I didn't immediately notice he was wearing a new shirt, etc.

 

Too into their appearance/metrosexual. It's awesome when a guy dresses well and knows what flatters him physically, it's another thing entirely when he takes longer to get ready than I do. It's also a major turn off.

 

Gossipy. I've dated or been friends with guys who can't hold water and spread rumors and gossip worse than old women at a sewing circle. I used to think that when I confided something in a guy, I'd at least have the security of knowing I could trust him not to blab. Not so any more.

 

Unwilling or uncomfortable with leadership do any heavy lifting and constantly needing my help to problem solve. It's a strain on the relationship when I have to step in and diffuse situations for a grown man. I like and in fact enjoy helping others but I shouldn't have to "teach" my partner how to handle an escalating situation between him and his roommates.

 

Zero knowledge of simple car maintenance and mechanics or how to fix household appliances. I don't exactly feel my most feminine when I get a call at 11PM asking me to come help a guy change his tire. Nor do I feel like a lady when I'm under the sink unclogging a drain. I can do it and I do. But it doesn't mean I like it.

[somedude81]

What I would love to happen, even though I know it has a zero percent chance of actually occurring; is for women to accept that dating is harder for guys and to just give a guy one date as long as he's decent looking and seems nice.

 

Women seem to have such high standards that even getting one date with an average girl is a feat of strength if you aren't a super amazing guy.

 

Of course the current system is working for women, so why would they change anything? They don't care what men have to go through.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

What I would love to happen, even though I know it has a zero percent chance of actually occurring; is for women to accept that dating is harder for guys and to just give a guy one date as long as he's decent looking and seems nice.

 

Okay but when we do that we get told we're leading guys on and we should've said no if we knew we weren't interested going in, we just wasted his time, etc, etc. So I'm not sure how just saying yes to every guy would make things that much better.

 

Saying nothing of the fact that just being asked on a proper date is going the way of the do-do bird. A "hang out" is all the rage yet "hanging out" isn't exactly my idea of a good time if I only have a low level of interest anyway.

[Dontfindme]

A list would be long and require even longer explainations so I'll just give you some brief examples from things I've experienced this year alone with guys that made me view them as less masculine than I would've liked. But before I do, understand that I'm not saying all women are this way and all men are that way.

 

Hyper-emotional - I don't mean just open with their emotions and willing to communicate, that's actually great! I mean absolutely prone to sulking or even tears at the smallest of thing. Constant mood-swings, pouting, getting upset because I didn't immediately notice he was wearing a new shirt, etc.

 

Too into their appearance/metrosexual. It's awesome when a guy dresses well and knows what flatters him physically, it's another thing entirely when he takes longer to get ready than I do. It's also a major turn off.

 

Gossipy. I've dated or been friends with guys who can't hold water and spread rumors and gossip worse than old women at a sewing circle. I used to think that when I confided something in a guy, I'd at least have the security of knowing I could trust him not to blab. Not so any more.

 

Unwilling or uncomfortable with leadership do any heavy lifting and constantly needing my help to problem solve. It's a strain on the relationship when I have to step in and diffuse situations for a grown man. I like and in fact enjoy helping others but I shouldn't have to "teach" my partner how to handle an escalating situation between him and his roommates.

 

Zero knowledge of simple car maintenance and mechanics or how to fix household appliances. I don't exactly feel my most feminine when I get a call at 11PM asking me to come help a guy change his tire. Nor do I feel like a lady when I'm under the sink unclogging a drain. I can do it and I do. But it doesn't mean I like it.

 

I think this is great, and I thank you for compiling this.

 

I do believe that both men, and women would benefit by refraining from the aforementioned negative characteristics, as well as learning car/appliance maintenance, and taking on leadership roles.

[somedude81]

Okay but when we do that we get told we're leading guys on and we should've said no if we knew we weren't interested going in, we just wasted his time, etc, etc. So I'm not sure how just saying yes to every guy would make things that much better.

 

Going out with a guy one time is not leading him on. It's giving him a chance. Once you've done that and are sure that there isn't anything between you two, then just tell him if he asks for another date.

 

Saying nothing of the fact that just being asked on a proper date is going the way of the do-do bird. A "hang out" is all the rage yet "hanging out" isn't exactly my idea of a good time if I only have a low level of interest anyway.

 

Date, hang-out same thing.

 

You don't have to spend the whole day hanging out with a guy. Just do something you would enjoy regardless and have him come along for an hour or whatever.

[MissBee]

One could easily say it goes both ways. Its like if I cry about the kate uptons of the world get more attention from men than average girls or the roseanne barrs of the world. No shyt, really?

 

:rolleyes:

 

I hope every man complaining about attractive men gives every woman equal attention and treatment no matter her age or looks.

 

Until then. :rolleyes:

 

The big giant flaw those making this argument fail to recognize, but as Lernaean pointed out, is that different women have different tastes in men! In another thread someone raised up George Clooney as though it was some biological hardwiring in every woman to be into him when I am in no way swooning over Clooney...the person also acted like no woman has ever dumped Clooney...and I pointed out that good looking people get dumped like everyone else and no matter how hot you are, there are people who swill simply not be into you and like other looks.

 

So this idea that there is some objective 20% that ALL women desire and like is absurd. When what one woman might deem as desirable is not what another would.

 

Everyone wants to date someone THEY find desirable. I never dated any man I wasn't attracted to. That said, while I was attracted to them and while many of them were probably conventionally attractive and would at least be considered cute, they weren't models and it didn't mean that every other woman would be attracted to them too. As long as I liked them, that's what matters. Likewise how many times have women said a man can be good looking but you still have zero feelings for him or once you get to know him lose that attraction whereas a man less good looking you find yourself super into...but nope...those real life experiences and feelings are ignored to discuss some mythical 20% of men that ALL women go after. Mmmkay

[Toodaloo]

What I would love to happen, even though I know it has a zero percent chance of actually occurring; is for women to accept that dating is harder for guys and to just give a guy one date as long as he's decent looking and seems nice.

.

 

It has I ended up living with him for 5 years and it was not a happy relationship.

 

He seemed nice for 6 months so much so that I spent the next few years making excuses for him while he continued to be an absolute a-hole. About the only thing he didn't do was hit me. Use your imagination and think of the nastiest things someone can do while not being a psycho and he did them all.

 

I am not going to write off another man because he seems nice or isn't looking like a movie star... I know nice guys are out there, I know extraordinary guys who are amazing are out there and through no fault of their own are single just like me.

 

I have read all the "I can't get the girl" threads and made note and am going to be more proactive in my approaches and more direct, that way I hope that I can find one of the good guys rather than have to make do with the junk. Actually I am not going to make do with the junk I am going to ensure I remain single and available for a nice guy.

[clia]

Going out with a guy one time is not leading him on. It's giving him a chance. Once you've done that and are sure that there isn't anything between you two, then just tell him if he asks for another date.

 

It's leading him on if I already know I don't want a relationship with him. I don't need to stare at him across the table for an hour to figure that out. Most people are looking for more in a partner than just "decent looking" and "seems nice." I talk to ten guys a day who are "decent looking" and "seem nice," but that doesn't mean I have any romantic interest in them. There is a lot more to it than that.

[somedude81]

It has I ended up living with him for 5 years and it was not a happy relationship.

 

He seemed nice for 6 months so much so that I spent the next few years making excuses for him while he continued to be an absolute a-hole. About the only thing he didn't do was hit me. Use your imagination and think of the nastiest things someone can do while not being a psycho and he did them all.

 

I am not going to write off another man because he seems nice or isn't looking like a movie star... I know nice guys are out there, I know extraordinary guys who are amazing are out there and through no fault of their own are single just like me.

 

I have read all the "I can't get the girl" threads and made note and am going to be more proactive in my approaches and more direct, that way I hope that I can find one of the good guys rather than have to make do with the junk. Actually I am not going to make do with the junk I am going to ensure I remain single and available for a nice guy.

 

Oh come on, that's such an extreme example.

 

I'm talking about one date. Not that you have to be in a relationship with him for 5 years.

 

BTW surely you really liked something about so it's completely ridiculous to say that "I went on a date with a guy I didn't like and I had an unhappy relationship with him for 5 years because of it."

[MissBee]

The other thing I truly am confused about is:

 

If dating is easier for women and and harder for guys and supposedly women need to give a monolithic group called men a chance because it's harder....and assuming these women dating are straight...aren't they dating guys and already giving guys a chance???? :confused:

 

So if they are dating guys how can it be harder for guys when these women are dating guys...

 

It clearly has to be working BOTH ways as women aren't just dating themselves...

 

If they have 50 dates a year...clearly there are 50 guys out there going out with them....so can someone explain this to me. Or is the argument really that as an individual women don't want to date YOU so you are assuming this goes for every man and women should give you a chance and let's ignore all the other men they go out with....which I suppose leads some men to concoct this idea that the women who have dates and are dating men are dating rich, famous, celebrities in the 20% supposedly...