Would you date anyone not as educated as you?

[Anela]

I have a lot of education. So I have dated many people who don't have as much formal education as I do. Few people in the world have my level of education.

 

My husband has a Bachelor's degree which he was working on when we met. One of the 1st things he told me was he was looking forward to a particular course that started in a few weeks & my heart about stopped because I was teaching that course at a college near us. I was terrified that this gorgeous man I just met was going to be one of my students an off limits. Turned out DH was going to school on-line so he wasn't in my class.

 

As others have said, it's not the fancy degrees . . . it's the keenness of someone's mind.

 

I could not sustain a LTR with a dimwitted uninterested person.

 

I don't have a degree, and I'm not really dim-witted (at least I don't think I am). I used to love learning, and research, as well as my art studies, and I wish that I'd gone to college. At the age I should have been there, I was agoraphobic, preferring to be in my own space, and learn whatever I wanted to, rather than find myself away from home, and dealing with the same sort of thing in high school, that had me dropping out.

 

My brain has felt fried, over the past few years, but I wouldn't mind going back to school. I was craving that sort of environment. I am also well aware of the fact that the men I'm usually interested in, would prefer an educated woman as a girlfriend or spouse.

 

Neither of my parents have degrees, and they are both smart, interesting people.

[amaysngrace]

I'm the same person with or without my degree. Which says a lot.

 

Personally I think that's a good thing. You aren't trying to place yourself or others into an hierarchy. That's a pointless, daunting task if you ask me.

 

But I'm curious to know why you aren't looking for work in your field? You speak Arabic? Do you realize how valuable that is nowadays?

 

It's strong.

[suladas]

Yes, some people might have come from privileged backgrounds but many do not and that's why a lot of people tout getting educated because it's often the easiest way out of your negative situation in terms of you gain social capital, you meet different kinds of people, you get different opportunities and you can leave your limiting circumstance a lot easier that way. I grew up outside of the U.S. in a developing country and education is highly valued for a lot of people not because they are rich and living their plush lives without common sense, but they've been using common sense since 5 years old and street smarts and they want a better life for themselves than what their folks had and for them education is what might promise that.

 

So you don't like generalizations but are making one here? What proof do you have the education is the best way to improve someone's life? You're clearly saying you think education is better then not.

[thefooloftheyear]

From a purely practical standpoint, this country is going to need FAR more plumbers, electricians, welders, mechanics, oil and gas exploration techs, infrastructue specialists, etc, than they will science professors, psychologists, lawyers, etc......

 

That being said, do whatever makes you happy...I have a Biology degree that did absolutely nothing for me, I did achieve wealth and relative prosperity, but through a blue collar and completely unrelated venue..In fairness, I should have taken it all the way and become an orthopedic surgeon...I would have excelled..But whatever...I have no regrets at this point..

 

My only beef exists with the career students that cant seem to find their calling, have a bunch of useless esoteric knowledge that has no practical application, then wind up going bankrupt and defaulting on their loans because no one wants what they have....Like I said, do what you want, just pay for it with your dime....

 

 

TFY

[MissBee]

Not everyone. Some people are comfortable enough in their own skin not to worry about where they themselves fit in. They just do.

 

This obviously strikes a nerve with you. It really should not matter what other people think of you. You know that.

 

The tendency to categorize, compare and hierarchize is the structure of lots of human societies, it's a sociological observation versus one about whether individual people feel this way or not.

 

A topic striking a nerve, because you find the assertions silly, isn't the same as you being up all night unable to sleep because it's a personal affront to you. I hope you know that you can express an opinion about something strongly, especially if it's up for discussion on a message board, without it meaning you are invested in what other people think of you as an individual.

 

I'm discussing the topic and these ideas but it shouldn't be confused with me walking around in my real life off this board thinking back to what anyone says and making life decisions based on it.

[amaysngrace]

So you don't like generalizations but are making one here? What proof do you have the education is the best way to improve someone's life? You're clearly saying you think education is better then not.

 

Tell that my friend Dave. His dad was a Philadelphia judge. He grew up well. He chose not to go to college against his parents' wishes and became a foreign car mechanic fresh out of high school. Saved his money and opened up a shop with another guy from the service department at the Audi/Porsche dealership. Bought a house instead of renting.

 

Bought a tank of helium and blew up balloons and sold them on the boardwalk in the evenings in summertime. Saved his money, sold his half of the service station and got a storefront on the boardwalk. He now has four boardwalk storefronts, works four months a year and his first home that he purchased while in his 20s gets him $1800/week in rent. It's a block from the beach and it's a single family home where most homes there are duplexes.

 

He's always been smart though. He just has a complete understanding of the way things work. He gets it.

 

When he was little he took off his braces the day they went on with a pair of pliers because he could. And they hurt. He autopsies his fish from the massive fish pond at his second home to figure out the cause of death. The man can fix anything.

 

He builds like nobody I've ever seen. And he pulled his money back in June the year the stock market crashed like everybody else who knows how things work.

 

Four years in college would have been a total waste of time and money for him because school literally bored him.

 

And he is also the only person that I know who has never voted in an election. So in that regard I'd say he's extremely bright. Like I said, he knows how things work.

 

My son has a friend he grew up with. His parents are both very successful. His dad encouraged him to drop out of college his second year in to start a piling business. We had a bad storm here named Superstorm Sandy that changed our state's regulation for elevating homes in high-flood zones.

 

The kid probably made a million dollars so far.

 

Following your dreams sometimes requires years and years of schooling and sometimes following your dreams doesn't require any higher education at all.

 

And just because someone isn't breaking their ass in college does not mean that they aren't breaking their ass for their dream in a different way.

[MissBee]

So you don't like generalizations but are making one here? What proof do you have the education is the best way to improve someone's life? You're clearly saying you think education is better then not.

 

I'm sorry...but what?!

 

I explained the cultural value placed on education in the country I'm from as a means to explain that lots of people who are poor see that as a way out so this idea that those with degrees are automatic snobs isn't true since getting higher education isn't something only elite people do but many poor people also choose this as a way out. This wasn't a claim on whether or not education is the only way to improve your life and certainly not a claim that requires proof.

 

I'm also not quite sure where the generalization is or when I ever said I didn't like them lol.

 

While I have over and over said that a degree or education does not prove intelligence neither does it guarantee money and that I'd date someone not as educated so long as they have similar life experiences and worldviews and so long as they don't need to denigrate those who pursue education...you've PERSISTED in trying to disparage education, argue about it, make claims no one said (like proving education is the only way to improve someone's life when I didn't say that ) hence I pointed out some of the very clearly biased ways in which you're coming at the topic.

 

I have never looked down on blue collar jobs or the uneducated and you can't point to anywhere in this thread where I have. But like I said...EVERY TIME this topic comes up you have a loud penny section who can't wait to talk about how degrees are meaningless, impractical, blah blah blah blah blah even when people have CLEARLY said they aren't saying that is the end all be all...then in the same breath say people who have education are looking down on others, even though in this VERY conversation, you're the one constantly asking me to prove things or trying to say that those without higher education are the ones actually smart or who have money and how much your lawyer friends don't make money and the list goes on...I mean seriously...

 

I responded to this thread's original topic on about page 3 saying I don't meet men who are as educated as I am generally but I also distinguish between intelligence and education and the two aren't the same and I wouldn't date someone less intelligent but if they had less formal education, sure! What are you arguing about with me really? It then devolved into this typical debate which it always does so I added my 2 cents on those aspects. But in my original response, I saw no need to pit educated against uneducated and paint false pictures about either like I'm seeing being done. YES some people get degrees and make no money or have no sense. This is not an argument. However, it is also a ridiculous argument that people without degrees are somehow at a bigger advantage and are owning million dollar companies in larger droves than degreed people etc.

Edited November 10, 2014 by MissBee

[sweetjasmine]

And just because someone isn't breaking their ass in college does not mean that they aren't breaking their ass for their dream in a different way.

 

And where exactly in this thread are people saying that those without degrees aren't busting their ass?

 

All I see is people getting preemptively defensive by saying negative things about those with education. Is it any small wonder that some people who do have formal education don't want to be in a relationship with others who brag about how much more money they make because they weren't dumb enough to go to useless university?

[MissBee]

And where exactly in this thread are people saying that those without degrees aren't busting their ass?

 

All I see is people getting preemptively defensive by saying negative things about those with education. Is it any small wonder that some people who do have formal education don't want to be in a relationship with others who brag about how much more money they make because they weren't dumb enough to go to useless university?

 

Right.

 

I feel like I'm being gaslighted. I literally had to go back through the thread to make sure of what I've said and what others have said because nowhere did I or most other people ( except maybe Tayken) say anything like that...quite the opposite, so it just seems like a defensive argument against an imagined counterargument that no one even made.

 

There must be some therapeutic value in arguing a point no one is disagreeing with so alrighty, have at it! To give it credit: maybe the argument isn't against real responses in this thread but against the society since there tends to be a hierarchy in society where white collar is associated with intelligence, prestige and cerebral work while working with one's hands is often seen as menial. This is a societal view point that people are perhaps reacting to thus are saying these things against these common cultural values, even though actual individuals in the threads haven't said it maybe?

[amaysngrace]

And where exactly in this thread are people saying that those without degrees aren't busting their ass?

 

All I see is people getting preemptively defensive by saying negative things about those with education. Is it any small wonder that some people who do have formal education don't want to be in a relationship with others who brag about how much more money they make because they weren't dumb enough to go to useless university?

 

You said that a partner would need to respect the amount of work you've put into and the value you place on education. Ten years of higher education is a long time, yes. I think it's clear what an education means to you. I personally never said anything about people with college educations other than calling it a piece of paper which is exactly what it is to some.

 

You see what you want to see and so do I. I see you saying you're sick of and you're tired of and you see others on the defensive.

 

And I see that you're angry. And Miss Bee is upset.

 

So who's attacking who here?

[suladas]

And where exactly in this thread are people saying that those without degrees aren't busting their ass?

 

All I see is people getting preemptively defensive by saying negative things about those with education. Is it any small wonder that some people who do have formal education don't want to be in a relationship with others who brag about how much more money they make because they weren't dumb enough to go to useless university?

 

Yet the first person I seen to make the money statement was someone touting in favour of education and how it means making more money.

[suladas]

I'm sorry...but what?!

 

I explained the cultural value placed on education in the country I'm from as a means to explain that lots of people who are poor see that as a way out so this idea that those with degrees are automatic snobs isn't true since getting higher education isn't something only elite people do but many poor people also choose this as a way out. This wasn't a claim on whether or not education is the only way to improve your life and certainly not a claim that requires proof.

 

I'm also not quite sure where the generalization is or when I ever said I didn't like them lol.

 

While I have over and over said that a degree or education does not prove intelligence neither does it guarantee money and that I'd date someone not as educated so long as they have similar life experiences and worldviews and so long as they don't need to denigrate those who pursue education...you've PERSISTED in trying to disparage education, argue about it, make claims no one said (like proving education is the only way to improve someone's life when I didn't say that ) hence I pointed out some of the very clearly biased ways in which you're coming at the topic.

 

I have never looked down on blue collar jobs or the uneducated and you can't point to anywhere in this thread where I have. But like I said...EVERY TIME this topic comes up you have a loud penny section who can't wait to talk about how degrees are meaningless, impractical, blah blah blah blah blah even when people have CLEARLY said they aren't saying that is the end all be all...then in the same breath say people who have education are looking down on others, even though in this VERY conversation, you're the one constantly asking me to prove things or trying to say that those without higher education are the ones actually smart or who have money and how much your lawyer friends don't make money and the list goes on...I mean seriously...

 

I responded to this thread's original topic on about page 3 saying I don't meet men who are as educated as I am generally but I also distinguish between intelligence and education and the two aren't the same and I wouldn't date someone less intelligent but if they had less formal education, sure! What are you arguing about with me really? It then devolved into this typical debate which it always does so I added my 2 cents on those aspects. But in my original response, I saw no need to pit educated against uneducated and paint false pictures about either like I'm seeing being done. YES some people get degrees and make no money or have no sense. This is not an argument. However, it is also a ridiculous argument that people without degrees are somehow at a bigger advantage and are owning million dollar companies in larger droves than degreed people etc.

 

You're changing your words. Your post above contradicts the previous one below.

 

that's why a lot of people tout getting educated because it's often the easiest way out of your negative situation in terms of you gain social capital, you meet different kinds of people, you get different opportunities and you can leave your limiting circumstance a lot easier that way. I grew up outside of the U.S. in a developing country and education is highly valued for a lot of people not because they are rich and living their plush lives without common sense, but they've been using common sense since 5 years old and street smarts and they want a better life for themselves than what their folks had and for them education is what might promise that.

[kiss_andmakeup]

Unfortunately, these days, the likely options for most people are:

 

1. Get a bachelor's degree (or greater) and have a semi-decent shot at eventually attaining a stable career.

2. Learn a trade, see above.

3. Have a high school diploma, and be relegated to working (at best) very remedial jobs such as fast food and low-end retail.

4. Have a high-school diploma, be well-connected and financially endowed enough to create your own business venture.

 

I am not saying there aren't exceptions, as I personally know some. I also do not personally have a college degree, so I am not being condescending. But the truth is that the bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. Jobs that used to be easily attainable for high school graduates - secretarial work, reception, entry-level administration/assisting - are now requiring a minimum of a bachelor's degree (and probably some number of years of experience).

 

All of this is a long way of saying that, unless a person is an exception to the rule (business owner, well-connected and landed a great job through networking, started very young and worked their way up), it's likely that without a college degree, they'll struggle to ever have the means to support themselves in a comfortable (not lavish, but not paycheck-to-paycheck) lifestyle.

 

Again, I do not have a bachelor's degree, and I am not equating education with intelligence (see my prior post). However, one would be foolish to argue that education is completely irrelevant - while a bachelor's degree is really no shining badge of honour, it is, for most people, a necessary tool in creating a long-term career and financial stability.

Edited November 10, 2014 by kiss_andmakeup

[fortyninethousand322]

I have a friend who is not a genius. In fact in high school he was a terrible student. Barely managed to graduate. He is very good at sales though and has managed to parlay that skill into a pretty good job in finance. Makes close to twice as much as I do, and I was a great student in high school and I have a college degree.

 

You are who you are. A college degree can certainly enhance that, but it doesn't always.

 

Whether you're educated or not, if your education is important to you it should be valued by those you love. If not, then you need to reevaluate your relationships with those people...

[gaius]

There are still a decent amount of career paths where you can go far with just a high school degree, if you're smart and willing to put the work in that is. Computer science is one that comes to mind. Can't stand Edward Snowden but I don't think he even graduated high school yet got himself a job making pretty good money doing defense contracting eventually. And his story isn't exactly unique, my Uncle is solidly middle class now working for a software company and he doesn't even know any programming languages in depth.

[Tayken]

Unfortunately, these days, the likely options for most people are:

 

1. Get a bachelor's degree (or greater) and have a semi-decent shot at eventually attaining a stable career.

2. Learn a trade, see above.

3. Have a high school diploma, and be relegated to working (at best) very remedial jobs such as fast food and low-end retail.

4. Have a high-school diploma, be well-connected and financially endowed enough to create your own business venture.

 

I am not saying there aren't exceptions, as I personally know some. I also do not personally have a college degree, so I am not being condescending. But the truth is that the bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. Jobs that used to be easily attainable for high school graduates - secretarial work, reception, entry-level administration/assisting - are now requiring a minimum of a bachelor's degree (and probably some number of years of experience).

 

All of this is a long way of saying that, unless a person is an exception to the rule (business owner, well-connected and landed a great job through networking, started very young and worked their way up), it's likely that without a college degree, they'll struggle to ever have the means to support themselves in a comfortable (not lavish, but not paycheck-to-paycheck) lifestyle.

 

Again, I do not have a bachelor's degree, and I am not equating education with intelligence (see my prior post). However, one would be foolish to argue that education is completely irrelevant - while a bachelor's degree is really no shining badge of honour, it is, for most people, a necessary tool in creating a long-term career and financial stability.

 

Bold 1: As mentioned in this thread thus far, those without one always take the stance that a degree has lost its value.

 

Bold 2: You point would have been more credible with facts. I took it upon myself to rebut your point..note where it says starting salary

 

https://www.naceweb.org/s04022014/starting-salary-class-2014.aspx

 

Starting salary for bean counters...again, 2014. Non degree holders will have to work countless hours and undesirable shifts to earn that much

 

Starting Salary for 2014 Accounting Grads Is $52,900: Report | AccountingWEB

 

Oh, and if you want to earn decent money, don't do a Mickey mouse degree

 

The Bachelor's Degrees With The Highest Salary Potential - Forbes

[kiss_andmakeup]

Bold 1: As mentioned in this thread thus far, those without one always take the stance that a degree has lost its value.

 

Did you even read my post? I was agreeing that a bachelor's degree is extremely important in today's job market. It doesn't get you what it used to, but neither does a high school diploma. Everything has fallen in tandem. So the point that a college diploma's value has dropped is rather moot, as along with it, the value of a high school diploma has dropped as well.

 

A bachelor's degree used to be a "plus" when applying for a job. It is now often a minimum requirement.

 

So my point was not really out of line with yours. And as someone about to marry a partner with a medical degree, you cannot honestly think that I am not aware of the value of an education.

 

I am also aware of the fact that there are intelligent people in this world whose life paths have not yet (and perhaps never will) lead them to pursuing a post-secondary degree. I hold myself to be one of them.

 

The beliefs are not mutually exclusive.

[Tayken]

There are still a decent amount of career paths where you can go far with just a high school degree, if you're smart and willing to put the work in that is. Computer science is one that comes to mind. Can't stand Edward Snowden but I don't think he even graduated high school yet got himself a job making pretty good money doing defense contracting eventually. And his story isn't exactly unique, my Uncle is solidly middle class now working for a software company and he doesn't even know any programming languages in depth.

 

You are wrong about computer science.....Your high school degree might get you through the door coupled with your savvy computer knowledge, but don't expect to show up empty headed. I use to employ and oversee a team of people, some with HS diploma but with certifications e.g CCNA, MCSE and MCSA all of which I have myself but useless to me now.

 

As for your Snowden remark, his Mom and Dad's influence managed to get him through the door, and here is why.....His mother works for the federal court in Baltimore (the family moved to Ellicott City, Maryland, when Snowden was young) as chief deputy clerk for administration and information technology. Snowden's father, a former Coast Guard officer, lives in Pennsylvania.

 

As for Snowden himself, Snowden dropped out of high school and studied computers at Anne Arundel Community College in Arnold, Maryland (from 1999 to 2001, and again from 2004 to 2005), later earning a GED. Between his stints at community college, Snowden spent four months (May to September 2004) in the Army Reserves in special-forces training.

[Tayken]

Did you even read my post? I was agreeing that a bachelor's degree is extremely important in today's job market. It doesn't get you what it used to, but neither does a high school diploma. Everything has fallen in tandem. So the point that a college diploma's value has dropped is rather moot, as along with it, the value of a high school diploma has dropped as well.

 

A bachelor's degree used to be a "plus" when applying for a job. It is now often a minimum requirement.

 

So my point was not really out of line with yours. And as someone about to marry a partner with a medical degree, you cannot honestly think that I am not aware of the value of an education.

 

I am also aware of the fact that there are intelligent people in this world whose life paths have not yet (and perhaps never will) lead them to pursuing a post-secondary degree. I hold myself to be one of them.

 

The beliefs are not mutually exclusive.

 

 

I sure did, but the difference between your post and mine, is that I backed mine up with references.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I sure did, but the difference between your post and mine, is that I backed mine up with references.

 

So…are you trying to reinforce my point, or yours? Because they are roughly the same. I apologize that I don't treat posting on an online forum the way I would a research paper. In light of that, here is an article that demonstrates what people are referring to when they say that the earnings of college grads has dropped:

 

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/do-college-grads-earn-less-now-than-40-years-ago/?_r=0

 

We are talking over the last 30 years, not between 2013 and now.

 

However, as I said above, I fail to understand why people argue this point, because I am quite certain that earnings most likely have fallen just as much for people with no post-secondary education. All of this contributes to the large wage gap (shrinking middle class) that the US is currently experiencing.

 

My point was that, if the value of a college degree has become as homogenous as everyone is saying, then that means it's even more important.

 

Would love it if you actually addressed the content of my posts rather than my lack of footnotes. This is a relationship forum, and most people here participate in discussions by disclosing and exploring their personal experiences. I felt no need to "prove" my point to you since I was essentially agreeing with you.

[fortyninethousand322]

First of all, I know there's been a thread on this before, but the value of a Bachelor's degree in terms of employment value is almost entirely (like 90%) the signaling value, not the actual skills and knowledge it gives you.

 

There has been tons of research on this, most recently by Bryan Caplan.

[Tayken]

So…are you trying to reinforce my point, or yours? Because they are roughly the same. I apologize that I don't treat posting on an online forum the way I would a research paper. In light of that, here is an article that demonstrates what people are referring to when they say that the earnings of college grads has dropped:

 

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/do-college-grads-earn-less-now-than-40-years-ago/?_r=0

 

We are talking over the last 30 years, not between 2013 and now.

 

However, as I said above, I fail to understand why people argue this point, because I am quite certain that earnings most likely have fallen just as much for people with no post-secondary education. All of this contributes to the large wage gap (shrinking middle class) that the US is currently experiencing.

 

My point was that, if the value of a college degree has become as homogenous as everyone is saying, then that means it's even more important.

 

Would love it if you actually addressed the content of my posts rather than my lack of footnotes. This is a relationship forum, and most people here participate in discussions by disclosing and exploring their personal experiences. I felt no need to "prove" my point to you since I was essentially agreeing with you.

 

 

I tend to live in the "now", as opposed to the "past".

 

BLUF (bottom line up front) - Not all degree are equal, and a degree will always be a better investment than not having one.

 

Period

[kiss_andmakeup]

I tend to live in the "now", as opposed to the "past".

 

BLUF (bottom line up front) - Not all degree are equal, and a degree will always be a better investment than not having one.

 

Period

 

YES. I KNOW. I AGREED WITH THAT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

 

Based on your correspondence here, I'm beginning to think the clerk you mentioned in your OP may have been a better match for you than you thought.

 

Going to go bang my head against a wall now.

[Tayken]

YES. I KNOW. I AGREED WITH THAT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

 

Based on your correspondence here, I'm beginning to think the clerk you mentioned in your OP may have been a better match for you than you thought.

 

Going to go bang my head against a wall now.

 

Don't forget to close the door behind you. When all else fails, resort to all caps. Speaks volume about you

[gaius]

You are wrong about computer science.....Your high school degree might get you through the door coupled with your savvy computer knowledge, but don't expect to show up empty headed. I use to employ and oversee a team of people, some with HS diploma but with certifications e.g CCNA, MCSE and MCSA all of which I have myself but useless to me now.

 

As for your Snowden remark, his Mom and Dad's influence managed to get him through the door, and here is why.....His mother works for the federal court in Baltimore (the family moved to Ellicott City, Maryland, when Snowden was young) as chief deputy clerk for administration and information technology. Snowden's father, a former Coast Guard officer, lives in Pennsylvania.

 

As for Snowden himself, Snowden dropped out of high school and studied computers at Anne Arundel Community College in Arnold, Maryland (from 1999 to 2001, and again from 2004 to 2005), later earning a GED. Between his stints at community college, Snowden spent four months (May to September 2004) in the Army Reserves in special-forces training.

Companies that do it right generally look at what you've worked on and put you through a few tests to make sure you have the skills they're looking for. The degrees themselves aren't nearly as important as they are in other fields. Which is probably why we lead the world in a lot of computer science stuff, and in everything else, not so much. Other than that thanks for pretty much proving my point with your description about Snowden. I might have you provide the research for some more of my posts when I'm too lazy to look it up myself.