Improving Phoe

[Phoe]

Pardon me if this has been mentioned in the past, but have you tried doing the approaching yourself?

 

A handful of times, yes. I got rejected each time, sometimes rather harshly/rudely.

 

The harshness is what made me hesitant in trying again. Had they all been polite about it, I think I would've had a much better time coping with the rejection.

 

I know I'll try approaching again someday. I'm considering doing a LOT of it in the future, just for practice, since I clearly am bad at it.

[Phoe]

My post wasn't about jumping from person to person.

 

My point was that you need to know when to let go. You waited till the absolute last moment with him.

 

You put yourself through so much stress and anguish by holding on to that relationship. Why?

 

If you want to improve Phoe, you should figure out why you stuck with him for so long, and see if you would do that again with the next guy.

 

Sure, ending a failing relationship sooner would be good for me, but I don't see how it's relevant to my goal of overall improving myself and creating a more successful dating environment for myself.

 

Had I ended it earlier, I still would've been here in this same spot saying "Wow, that didn't go well at all. None of what I've ever done went well. What can I improve about myself now, to create a more successful dating future?"

 

Your post is valid as a true statement, but it's not, IMO, a trait that is causing dating failure for me.

[Els]

It strikes me that you are far too accommodating in relationships, to be honest. This is a double whammy, because it's unattractive to guys who actually treat their girlfriend well, while being particularly attractive to the type of 'poor quality' guy you are describing. These guys need an overly accommodating gf because no other girl will put up with their crap.

 

My advice is: Be okay with being single, and hold your standards high. I don't necessarily mean superficial standards, I mean standards about how you should be treated.

[Gloria25]

Phoe,

 

Dating:

Lemme tell ya... the "quality" of "males" out there - especially for singles is really bad, IMO.

 

I think it's natural selection. The great guys get snagged up and the guys full of issues (i.e. no job, on drugs, baby-mama drama) are what's "available".

 

I wonder if you've been "settling" cuz you think "ah, it is what it is". Well, I've gotten to a point where I rather be alone than miserable. My gfs/family members "settled" only to be bombarded with a slug, cheater, loser, etc.

 

Yea, I also miss getting laid, but most guys out there aren't even FWB material.

 

Jobs:

It sucks out there. It sucks bad. I remember having the luxury to move up/around when I was ready for something better/different - but it's sucking. I was talking to a gf other day and poor thing. She felt like something was wrong with "her" and I was like - nooooo, it's everyone. And geesh, her situation just makes me thank God for my blessings.

 

Appearance:

Lol, I'm with you there. I've taken this downtime to increase the time on my runs and swims. I've also started working more on abs/arms/legs.

 

Yeah, looking cuter helps. Before I was crushing on my recent crush, I could care less how "casual" I looked. Now I pay a little more attention before I walk out the door. But, I've resolved that I better continue to keep up my appearance, cuz just like he was under my nose the whole time - never know if you might run into someone you might like and vice-versa.

 

I mean, I still make sure I'm groomed for work - but outside of work; and, when I'm seeing a guy, I always make my self "cute" or dolled-up for him. But, before I noticed my crush, I was really, really "casual" in my appearance outside of work and/or seeing some guy.

 

Taking time off:

All I can say is, just watch how "long" you get into a hiatus. I mean, in the most recent years I just didn't care much about dating and just having fun cuz I was really going through some stressful non-dating stuff. Even having a FWB was becoming difficult.

 

But, I - just like how I lecture my siblings - realized that life is gonna bring us challenges. We have to make balance between work and play cuz the play time is where we get our batteries recharged to deal with life. So, while I'm still dealing with some of that past stress (it goes up and down/comes and goes), I am taking more time to just relax and not let it bring me down.

 

I mean, I've had "droughts" in the past when it came to getting involved with guys, but these past couple of years was the first time it was cuz stress was the factor.

 

I just ask that you don't stay too long in the hiatus, cuz I wish I could go back in time and just not waste time fretting and being out there enjoying life and the company of a guy.

 

So, hang in there, don't settle and I'm excited about starting 2015 anew with you (well you said 2016, I won't be waiting that long...lol).

[Phoe]

If you want to improve Phoe, you should figure out why you stuck with him for so long, and see if you would do that again with the next guy.

 

In the past, you actually commended me for trying, rather than jumping at the first sign of trouble. Now you're going back on that?

 

 

I always think it's best to put extra effort in first. I put in extra effort, and it still didn't help, so I let go.

[writergal]

My advice is: Be okay with being single, and hold your standards high. I don't necessarily mean superficial standards, I mean standards about how you should be treated.

 

That's what I was trying to say earlier but Elswyth said it better. That's all I meant by living up to your own standards that includes how you should be treated by guys you choose to date.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I would like to start this by saying I am in no way close to being ready to date. I typically wait anywhere from 6 months to 6 years between dates, and with that said I intend to not try dating again until probably 2016.

 

I want to spend 2015 bettering myself.

 

It's no secret, I suck at dating. I'm the common denominator.

 

I've dated nothing but bad quality guys. Guys who cheated, left me, disrespected me, physically and verbally abused me. My most recent ex is the best I've ever had, which shows me I'm on the right track, but not there yet.

 

The issue is that these were the only men pursuing me. I wasn't turning men down in favor of the bad ones, they were all I got. And my own pursuits got rejected.

 

I need help. Brutal point blank honesty. I need to become a better person, and I need to stop stubbornly believing that by being myself I'll find the right guy.

 

I need to accept I can still be myself, while tweaking and altering things about myself. Being stubborn will be my downfall.

 

I need to improve everything. From looks, to demeanor, to mentality, to profession. None of what I'm currently doing is conducive to finding the right person.

 

I'd love constructive criticism and help. Men and women alike. Help me make 2015 the year of Phoe.

 

Personally, I think you are one of the most desirable/likeable human beings on here.

 

-You are modest.

-You do not have an ego from men approaching you.

-You have very seldom rejected men and feel grateful to be asked out on dates.

-You have very little superficialism in you.

-And probably #1. You can understand/sympathize with the 'underdog'.

 

Women as attractive as you are usually posting about how they met a 'hot, tall, dark, and handsome and insanely funny' guy on a date who is just your type, but he just didn't click with you.

 

I mean your personality is such that many times I have questioned if you are a real poster, and I know many others have too.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is, others here should probably be taking cues off of you.

[Phoe]

My advice is: Be okay with being single, and hold your standards high. I don't necessarily mean superficial standards, I mean standards about how you should be treated.

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Because my standard of being treated nicely, and respectfully, IMO, is pretty straight-forward, but I imagine somehow I'm missing something more concrete.

 

How can men sense that I am accommodating in a relationship? Because I gather that men don't think of me that way at all. My coworkers would sometimes make comments about how I must be the one wearing the pants in a relationship, or if I was being particularly strict about some work standard, or fierce in some way, they'd say "Wow, I bet your man doesn't give you any **** huh, he must know better than to mess with you! I know I wouldn't mess with you..."

 

Naturally, I just would smile and move on to something else rather than say "Actually, I walk on eggshells all day and feel like I'm being manipulated to the point that I don't recognize myself anymore" - yeah right, nobody says that out loud!!

 

I don't come off as meek at all. So how are men still managing to sense that, and use me for it?

[Phoe]

That's what I was trying to say earlier but Elswyth said it better. That's all I meant by living up to your own standards that includes how you should be treated by guys you choose to date.

 

I suppose I just need some specific examples for some standards.

 

Being treated kindly and respectfully is all I've got, really. It's probably too vague

[Phoe]

Anyway, the bottom line is, others here should probably be taking cues off of you.

 

 

Well, maybe I'm just being sorely pessimistic, but I would strongly recommend women against following my cues. Don't do what I do, it spells disaster! Unless single cat-lady-ville is where a woman is aiming to be, then yes, follow my lead!

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Well, maybe I'm just being sorely pessimistic, but I would strongly recommend women against following my cues. Don't do what I do, it spells disaster! Unless single cat-lady-ville is where a woman is aiming to be, then yes, follow my lead!

 

I'm pretty sure that if you were real, you would be the dream woman of hundreds of male posters here.

 

Your attitude is EXTREMELY attractive to me. It is very rare to see it in a woman.

[skydiveaddict]

 

Well, maybe I'm just being sorely pessimistic, but I would strongly recommend women against following my cues. Don't do what I do, it spells disaster! Unless single cat-lady-ville is where a woman is aiming to be, then yes, follow my lead!

 

You ain't like that phoe. Believe in yourself girl.

[Burp]

I just wanna butt in to say, you got a cool name.. "Phoe sho" and I haven't been to the Mo Jayve in years, but it's kinda scary out there?? I saw UFO's and crap like that.

 

But when it snows, man.. gives me the chills thinking of memories being there. Someone stole our freaking snowman! STOLE OUR SNOWMAN. That was so MoHawVee.

 

Anyway, just saying g'luck on your self journey. Lot of us here in California are too. This is a spiritual place, we're all standing on the same ground. Tap into the energy.. it's there.

[somedude81]

Sure, ending a failing relationship sooner would be good for me, but I don't see how it's relevant to my goal of overall improving myself and creating a more successful dating environment for myself.

 

Had I ended it earlier, I still would've been here in this same spot saying "Wow, that didn't go well at all. None of what I've ever done went well. What can I improve about myself now, to create a more successful dating future?"

 

Your post is valid as a true statement, but it's not, IMO, a trait that is causing dating failure for me.

 

You have to look at the deeper reason.

 

Why did you stay with him for so long?

 

Look over this post you wrote about him last month.

 

I'm very tolerant. There's a lot that others would mind, that I don't mind.

 

It's just hard to explain when I'm not tolerant, without coming off as psycho. He thinks I'm a pain in the ass as it is, and with him mentioning girls always hitting on him, it's almost like he's saying "careful, I love you, but if I am no longer happy, I do have other options".

 

I've never been with someone who treats me so well. He's so caring. He loves me, and I don't think anyone would ever love me as much as he does. He's even told me that, which I agree with. He understands my quirks, and tolerates my bad qualities. While exes called me chunky, called me a tranny, bullied me, and abused me physically, he calls me beautiful everyday. I've been told I look like a man in the past (heck, I got told that men probably mistake me for a man, just the other day on this forum).

 

I've been cheated on, abused, used, discarded, and bullied by men all my life, and I finally have someone who treats me likes a princess and loves me. Yes, there are flaws and I have my moments when I'm aggravated or hurt by something he's done, but it's not worth throwing away the relationship over.

 

Twice before, I almost broke up with him, and I've been struggling lately. I love him, but I also don't think I'll ever find anyone else who would love me and care for me like he does. He is kinder to me than anyone else I have met in my entire life. I could find someone might like me, tolerate me, sure, but it would be a long and painful road and a very lonely one, and for what, deciding that I won't put up with occasional irritating behavior?

 

Your post pretty much screams, "I have low self-esteem and I don't deserve to be treated right. This is the best I will ever have so I'll just stick with it."

 

 

In the past, you actually commended me for trying, rather than jumping at the first sign of trouble. Now you're going back on that?

How far back are we talking here? It certainly wasn't within the past five months.

 

Your relationship went far beyond the first sign of trouble.

[writergal]

I suppose I just need some specific examples for some standards.

 

Being treated kindly and respectfully is all I've got, really. It's probably too vague

 

Yes, definitely too vague. But even if you created specific dating standards, every guy you date will still come with some baggage. I think you need to determine what baggage you deem acceptable/non acceptable.

[MissBee]

I suppose I just need some specific examples for some standards.

 

Being treated kindly and respectfully is all I've got, really. It's probably too vague

 

An example of some of my standards for a man I'm gonna be with seriously:

 

Emotionally mature

Intelligent

Ambitious and has his own goals and dreams he's working towards

Believes in monogamy and is a one woman kind of guy

Is gainfully employed or in school working towards a career

Has no major mental issues

Does not abuse drugs or alcohol

Is not bigoted whether that is racist, homophobic, sexist or other bigotry

Respects me

 

There are others but those are some of them.

 

As for the question of how these men know...I can't explain the mechanics of it, but obviously people know. People often pair up based on a complementarity of their issues. Where for example, narcissists are often paired with codependents. That is someone who will enable them. They cannot be in a relationship with someone who isn't codependent because they won't get their narcissistic supply and codependents need someone to save, so they join together. Clearly no one wears a literal sign, but SOMEHOW, these people match up. It may be in the things they say, they do, little things neither of you register but you're drawn to each other based on it. It doesn't matter IMO how this works, more so that you know it does happen, and one solution is to change yourself which automatically attracts different people.That's been my experience. New hair and clothes don't fool anyone. I realized the kinds of men I'd attract in my late teens for example versus now are so different, mainly because I changed.

 

In my native country we have a saying, roughly translated as "Ghosts know who to scare" which means that we read others and people learn and pick up on who they can try certain things with and who they can't. For example, I have a friend who always end up with men who ask her for money, who use her for money, food, rides and who always insist on going condomless...and she ALLOWS IT! In speaking with her she always seems confused as to why she meets these men and I'm always shocked because I've NEVER met men like that. I've never had men who use me as an ATM (I've had one bf I loaned money to in the past, but it was a year and a half into the relationship and it was a one time thing). Never had men who expected me to support them or give them stuff. Never had any men suggest we go condomless either. I have had a boyfriend who said he wanted to but that he would wait until we were established and then in my last relationship it was the first I did that but I chose to. In any case, I think largely the way I present myself and the fact that I would send a guy packing IMMEDIATELY if he tried to ask me for money especially multiple times or insist we go condomless and we're not even committed or exclusive, somehow shows, by the fact that guys simply don't play that game with me. She on the other hand, obviously gives off vibes that she would be fine with it and has little self respect so she always meets these men and they are correct in their assumption as she allows it! If she wears different clothes or has different hair she will still attract men who sense that she is a woman they can get to do what they want....I cannot explain the ins and outs of it, but clearly different women get treated differently, and largely it can be attributed to the energy they give off, how they carry themselves and what they allow.

 

You also don't immediately get into a relationship usually and I think if someone had spoken with you and been with you for a little they pick up on A LOT. Just like kids test their parents, men and women figure out, with romantic partners, friends, bosses, coworkers, teachers how they are and what they can get away with and one thing I learned watching my professors is that even the ones students say they dislike, they still respect them because they give off an air of no nonsense so there are just things they don't try with them.Whereas with other professors people might take more liberties because they read them and make assumptions that they are "easier" and more lax. So people read people all the time, we hardly do it in a conscious way, but somehow we absorb information and pick up on stuff and then we also interact with people and learn their boundaries (or lack of boundaries) and we treat them accordingly.

[Phoe]

Phoe,

 

Dating:

Lemme tell ya... the "quality" of "males" out there - especially for singles is really bad, IMO.

 

I think it's natural selection. The great guys get snagged up and the guys full of issues (i.e. no job, on drugs, baby-mama drama) are what's "available".

 

I wonder if you've been "settling" cuz you think "ah, it is what it is". Well, I've gotten to a point where I rather be alone than miserable. My gfs/family members "settled" only to be bombarded with a slug, cheater, loser, etc.

 

Yea, I also miss getting laid, but most guys out there aren't even FWB material.

 

Jobs:

It sucks out there. It sucks bad. I remember having the luxury to move up/around when I was ready for something better/different - but it's sucking. I was talking to a gf other day and poor thing. She felt like something was wrong with "her" and I was like - nooooo, it's everyone. And geesh, her situation just makes me thank God for my blessings.

 

Appearance:

Lol, I'm with you there. I've taken this downtime to increase the time on my runs and swims. I've also started working more on abs/arms/legs.

 

Yeah, looking cuter helps. Before I was crushing on my recent crush, I could care less how "casual" I looked. Now I pay a little more attention before I walk out the door. But, I've resolved that I better continue to keep up my appearance, cuz just like he was under my nose the whole time - never know if you might run into someone you might like and vice-versa.

 

I mean, I still make sure I'm groomed for work - but outside of work; and, when I'm seeing a guy, I always make my self "cute" or dolled-up for him. But, before I noticed my crush, I was really, really "casual" in my appearance outside of work and/or seeing some guy.

 

Taking time off:

All I can say is, just watch how "long" you get into a hiatus. I mean, in the most recent years I just didn't care much about dating and just having fun cuz I was really going through some stressful non-dating stuff. Even having a FWB was becoming difficult.

 

But, I - just like how I lecture my siblings - realized that life is gonna bring us challenges. We have to make balance between work and play cuz the play time is where we get our batteries recharged to deal with life. So, while I'm still dealing with some of that past stress (it goes up and down/comes and goes), I am taking more time to just relax and not let it bring me down.

 

I mean, I've had "droughts" in the past when it came to getting involved with guys, but these past couple of years was the first time it was cuz stress was the factor.

 

I just ask that you don't stay too long in the hiatus, cuz I wish I could go back in time and just not waste time fretting and being out there enjoying life and the company of a guy.

 

So, hang in there, don't settle and I'm excited about starting 2015 anew with you (well you said 2016, I won't be waiting that long...lol).

 

I figure 6 months as a minimum to even consider anything, but I certainly won't actively be trying until probably around 2016. That's the point where I'll see myself really buckling down.

 

Until then, everything will be about ME (and friends and family )

[Els]

Can you elaborate?

 

Because my standard of being treated nicely, and respectfully, IMO, is pretty straight-forward, but I imagine somehow I'm missing something more concrete.

 

How can men sense that I am accommodating in a relationship? Because I gather that men don't think of me that way at all. My coworkers would sometimes make comments about how I must be the one wearing the pants in a relationship, or if I was being particularly strict about some work standard, or fierce in some way, they'd say "Wow, I bet your man doesn't give you any **** huh, he must know better than to mess with you! I know I wouldn't mess with you..."

 

Naturally, I just would smile and move on to something else rather than say "Actually, I walk on eggshells all day and feel like I'm being manipulated to the point that I don't recognize myself anymore" - yeah right, nobody says that out loud!!

 

I don't come off as meek at all. So how are men still managing to sense that, and use me for it?

 

Interesting. To be honest, I don't know what sort of vibes you are giving off without having met you IRL. I'm just going off of what I read from you on LS. Some examples would be the sort of things you say you're okay with or have put up with - lack of effort from the guys during early dates, or things your last ex said and did that you allowed to slide. Also the way you seem to try to portray yourself as 'undemanding' or 'low maintenance' in terms of what you expect from guys. And, following that, my observation of the character of some of the guys who have been attracted to you on LS because of this portrayal.

 

At any rate, regardless of how you portray yourself IRL, don't you think it would benefit you in general to not be so overly accommodating? As far as getting into a relationship is concerned, a lot of it is luck anyway. Could be possible that you just have ****ty luck.

[Phoe]

Interesting. To be honest, I don't know what sort of vibes you are giving off without having met you IRL. I'm just going off of what I read from you on LS. Some examples would be the sort of things you say you're okay with or have put up with - lack of effort from the guys during early dates, or things your last ex said and did that you allowed to slide. Also the way you seem to try to portray yourself as 'undemanding' or 'low maintenance' in terms of what you expect from guys. And, following that, my observation of the character of some of the guys who have been attracted to you on LS because of this portrayal.

 

At any rate, regardless of how you portray yourself IRL, don't you think it would benefit you in general to not be so overly accommodating? As far as getting into a relationship is concerned, a lot of it is luck anyway. Could be possible that you just have ****ty luck.

 

It's possible that the way I portray myself IRL, is not how I see it at all. I may have a totally warped view of myself. I do know that if I asked people, they'd tell me I came off just fine, and would not give me any cold hard truth.

[writergal]

Then the problem isn't you, it's your geographical location and the selection of men who live there. That's a very likely possibility to consider.

[JuneJulySeptember]

And, following that, my observation of the character of some of the guys who have been attracted to you on LS because of this portrayal.

 

Thinly veiled low blow.

 

Unnecessary. But clever.

[Els]

It's possible that the way I portray myself IRL, is not how I see it at all. I may have a totally warped view of myself. I do know that if I asked people, they'd tell me I came off just fine, and would not give me any cold hard truth.

 

Yeah, it's really hard to get unbiased feedback from people you're close to IRL. I still think you should focus less on tweaking people's perception of you, and focus more on yourself. Thinking about what you really want from a guy and a relationship, and having the gumption to stand up for it. What you want may be different from what others want, but as long as you're true to yourself and are willing to stand up for what you want, it should be fine.

 

You said that you're willing to put a lot of effort into a R before letting it go. What sort of commensurate effort would you expect from the guy in reciprocation?

[JuneJulySeptember]

It's possible that the way I portray myself IRL, is not how I see it at all. I may have a totally warped view of myself. I do know that if I asked people, they'd tell me I came off just fine, and would not give me any cold hard truth.

 

Seriously, everybody is a critic here.

 

I think your persona is great. Even if you were 15x less attractive than your photos, I'd go out with you.

 

Please do not change.

[Phoe]

Then the problem isn't you, it's your geographical location and the selection of men who live there. That's a very likely possibility to consider.

 

I'd say it's definitely a smaller selection, but I definitely can't say anything about whether the quality of the selection is worse, since I have nothing to compare to.

 

I'd move in a heartbeat, just for a better job, if I were financially capable, and had a job offer. Definitely have no ties to this place.

[Phoe]

Yeah, it's really hard to get unbiased feedback from people you're close to IRL. I still think you should focus less on tweaking people's perception of you, and focus more on yourself. Thinking about what you really want from a guy and a relationship, and having the gumption to stand up for it. What you want may be different from what others want, but as long as you're true to yourself and are willing to stand up for what you want, it should be fine.

 

You said that you're willing to put a lot of effort into a R before letting it go. What sort of commensurate effort would you expect from the guy in reciprocation?

 

I agree, focusing on what I want in a partner is a goal I want to achieve in 2015, im just gonna feel rather odd at first. It's like I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with reasonable ideas. But it's a goal