What is chemistry, and how does a guy inspire it?

[serial muse]

 

My guess is that the reason why she doesn't let loose with me is that she knows I like her. And also because I like her, I can't fully relax and have fun with her because I have a goal in mind. I was trying really hard to have a conversation and being nice to her, just not being natural.

 

Well, I was actually going to say this, but thought perhaps it was beating a dead horse. But yes, this is why she isn't happy to talk to you. She tried being your friend, but you wouldn't accept friendship; you are still waiting in the wings. Women know this. And thus she knows you haven't given up, despite the fact that she told you to. So she's wary of you. As she should be, SD; you refuse to take her at her word.

 

Now, maybe you will?

 

I have been friendzoned by far too many girls and that isn't going to stop until the way I interact with women changes.

 

I mean, this may be true, but you're pretty stubborn about changing the way you do things. I don't know what else we can tell you. There's no magic formula for chemistry; you can't push and push to get the results you want. You have to work in the back channels first - developing yourself, your sense of self, becoming more whole as a human being - and that's the advice you won't take. I don't know why, because we always return to this point. You're asking us to give you the silver bullet, and there isn't one.

Edited November 20, 2014 by serial muse

[sillyanswer]

And then what?

 

Have it happen to me again in a few months? Then I'll move on from her?

 

It might. You could reconsider all the advice that you've dismissed, discounted, ignored etc. but in general moving on sooner would put you closer to that next woman who might just like you back.

 

I still believe that there is some "magic" answer that I'm not getting and that if I keep posting here, somebody will be able to tell me what I need to know.

 

Oh. You've got me. I confess. It's all a big conspiracy to hide the magic secret from you.

 

I have been friendzoned by far too many girls and that isn't going to stop until the way I interact with women changes.

 

Practise more, and learn when to move on (ie, more quickly) so that you can... practise more.

[ASG]

And then what?

 

Have it happen to me again in a few months? Then I'll move on from her?

 

I still believe that there is some "magic" answer that I'm not getting and that if I keep posting here, somebody will be able to tell me what I need to know.

 

I have been friendzoned by far too many girls and that isn't going to stop until the way I interact with women changes.

 

 

And this, right here, is why you will fail. Again and again.

 

Because there truly ISN'T. No "magic" answer exists.

 

And don't delude yourself. Busy Girl doesn't like you exactly for the same reason you didn't like the other girl who you thought was into you. She thinks you're not attractive. Maybe even *gasp* UGLY!

 

I honestly don't understand why you keep posting, asking for advice, if then you REFUSE to take any of it and then come back crying that nothing is working... Because you did exactly the same thing you've been doing all along... It seriously baffles the mind!

Edited November 20, 2014 by ASG

[somedude81]

Well, I was actually going to say this, but thought perhaps it was beating a dead horse. But yes, this is why she isn't happy to talk to you. She tried being your friend, but you wouldn't accept friendship; you are still waiting in the wings. Women know this. And thus she knows you haven't given up, despite the fact that she told you to. So she's wary of you. As she should be, SD; you refuse to take her at her word.

 

Now, maybe you will?

 

 

 

No, I wouldn't say that she isn't happy to talk to me. I know she likes to talk to me.

 

What I'm saying is that she doesn't like me as anything more than a friend, she isn't laughing and flirting. After we talked we then danced and then rotated on. Then I looked back and saw how she was with him and I realized the difference. That's how she should be with me if I were to have any hope of dating her.

 

Though maybe because she knows that I like her, she's being careful to control how she is with me because she doesn't want to give me the impression that she's interested. If that's the case that's still bad for me. It means that I did something wrong. My lady friend said that I screwed up by telling Busy girl that I liked her.

 

I mean, this may be true, but you're pretty stubborn about changing the way you do things. I don't know what else we can tell you. There's no magic formula for chemistry; you can't push and push to get the results you want. You have to work in the back channels first - developing yourself, your sense of self, becoming more whole as a human being - and that's the advice you won't take. I don't know why, because we always return to this point. You're asking us to give you the silver bullet, and there isn't one.

 

This is the advice that frustrates me because I feel that it is not addressing the real issue. It assumes that once I get a career and friends and hobbies, that women will suddenly love me, even if the way I talk to and interact with them doesn't change.

[Anela]

And then what?

 

Have it happen to me again in a few months? Then I'll move on from her?

 

I still believe that there is some "magic" answer that I'm not getting and that if I keep posting here, somebody will be able to tell me what I need to know.

 

I have been friendzoned by far too many girls and that isn't going to stop until the way I interact with women changes.

 

There isn't anything that you haven't already heard.

 

Busy girl can tell that you're trying for more, and she isn't going to respond well to that.

[Anela]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/499924-slept-his-bed-he-did-nothing-he-just-not-interested-6.html#post6009621

 

SD, that was your response to someone about a man who isn't interested in them. Your situation is no different.

[sillyanswer]

Though maybe because she knows that I like her, she's being careful to control how she is with me because she doesn't want to give me the impression that she's interested.

 

Yes, that's good insight.

 

If that's the case that's still bad for me. It means that I did something wrong. My lady friend said that I screwed up by telling Busy girl that I liked her.

 

It's bad in the sense that you've got no chance with her. I'm not sure if you ever did (I can't read her mind from this distance) so I'm not sure that you did something wrong (ie that might be the wrong conclusion for you to make), unless it was not backing off sooner.

 

I don't think that telling her that you liked her was necessarily a bad thing if it got to the point of discovering that her feelings don't mirror yours sooner rather than later. Learning when to stop trying and to move on is something you can gain from this.

[lollipopspot]

Though maybe because she knows that I like her, she's being careful to control how she is with me because she doesn't want to give me the impression that she's interested. If that's the case that's still bad for me. It means that I did something wrong. My lady friend said that I screwed up by telling Busy girl that I liked her.

 

I think your best shot yet is with this friend. Despite what the PUAs say, having women be your friends can indeed move into something more. This person may or may not think you're attractive right now, but if she's your friend and there's not a lot of pressure on it, you have a chance of winning her over with your maturity, humor, etc. Any chance you might be able to see this friend as something more?

[somedude81]

I think your best shot yet is with this friend. Despite what the PUAs say, having women be your friends can indeed move into something more. This person may or may not think you're attractive right now, but if she's your friend and there's not a lot of pressure on it, you have a chance of winning her over with your maturity, humor, etc. Any chance you might be able to see this friend as something more?

 

Unfortunately no.

 

She's 19 and is really uncomfortable with dating a guy over 25. I also wouldn't want to date a woman that young.

 

She's also 5'8, three inches taller than me, and she's pointed out several time that she doesn't want to date a guy who is her height or shorter.

 

I'm pretty much her two major deal breakers. If she was older and shorter I would definitely ask her out. That said, I've been very careful to hide any attraction to her that I have because I don't want to make her wary of me.

 

I really do like having her as a friend so I can hear about how girls really think of guys and dating stuff and I can get feedback about girls I like. But she does seem inexperienced and doesn't really know what they like. Just what they don't like.

[serial muse]

This is the advice that frustrates me because I feel that it is not addressing the real issue. It assumes that once I get a career and friends and hobbies, that women will suddenly love me, even if the way I talk to and interact with them doesn't change.

 

Oh, I know it frustrates you. But despite what you may think, trust me when I say that people do not repeatedly give you this and related advice because they're trying to frustrate you.

 

It's just that you insist on looking at things the wrong way round. And no matter how many times you're told that, you stubbornly insist that your way of looking at them is the correct one. Even though it's just not working for you.

 

Nobody is saying that women will suddenly love you. That's a strawman argument. People ARE saying that if you do this, you will increase your odds of finding a partner whom you will love and who will love you back. This is about statistics.

 

Nobody here has a crystal ball, either. I don't know how long it's going to take. I don't know exactly what will make you happier with yourself. I don't know which of these strategies -- friends, hobbies, choosing a different damn major -- will help. I know you're pretty unhappy with yourself, because nobody who likes himself even a little bit would think that a girlfriend is the answer to his depression. That's on you. And people - not just women, but all people - can sense this sort of thing. It creates distance. Perhaps you're good at hiding it initially, but these women that you initially make headway with KNOW that you're desperate for a girlfriend. That despite an initial easy-going vibe, you're actually super-intense about it, and that ends up pushing them away.

 

You want to change how you interact with them, you HAVE to address this. But you keep telling us -- and more importantly, YOURSELF -- that if you were to only get a girlfriend everything would be GREAT, you'd be happy and all your depression would evaporate.

 

People have told you time and again that nobody wants that responsibility. You come back with "but these girls don't know that I feel that way, and once I'm dating them, I'm happy, so they never will".

 

Well, they obviously DO know it, because that is why you don't get past the first initial flirting stages.

 

The only way to get yourself out of this loop is to take a GLOBAL view of the problem. Focusing on the so-called silver bullet isn't working. Is it? You have to take the long view and figure out how NOT to make getting a girlfriend the only goal in your life. Because it is. And that's unattractive.

[lollipopspot]

Unfortunately no.

 

She's 19 and is really uncomfortable with dating a guy over 25. I also wouldn't want to date a woman that young.

 

She's also 5'8, three inches taller than me, and she's pointed out several time that she doesn't want to date a guy who is her height or shorter.

 

I'm pretty much her two major deal breakers. If she was older and shorter I would definitely ask her out. That said, I've been very careful to hide any attraction to her that I have because I don't want to make her wary of me.

 

I really do like having her as a friend so I can hear about how girls really think of guys and dating stuff and I can get feedback about girls I like. But she does seem inexperienced and doesn't really know what they like. Just what they don't like.

 

O.k. This points to a direction. I know you haven't cultivated many friendships in the past. Instead of pursuing relationships, I strongly recommend you cultivate friendships. If you did, busy girl might have made time for you or had a nice rapport with you as a no-pressure friend that she couldn't as a potential partner. I think that friendships can and do grow into something more, especially for guys who for whatever reason don't "show well" at first. When you talk about "winning over" girls, that happens with time, and the way that you spend time with them when they're not interested in you romantically, is that they're your friends and they don't feel pressured. And then they see you do something very kind, mature, brave, funny, etc. and start looking at you in a new way.

 

Try pulling the need for romance out of your behavior. Set as a goal right now just having platonic, no-pressure relationships with females.

[thefooloftheyear]

Unfortunately no.

 

She's 19 and is really uncomfortable with dating a guy over 25. I also wouldn't want to date a woman that young.

 

She's also 5'8, three inches taller than me, and she's pointed out several time that she doesn't want to date a guy who is her height or shorter.

 

I'm pretty much her two major deal breakers. If she was older and shorter I would definitely ask her out. That said, I've been very careful to hide any attraction to her that I have because I don't want to make her wary of me.

 

I really do like having her as a friend so I can hear about how girls really think of guys and dating stuff and I can get feedback about girls I like. But she does seem inexperienced and doesn't really know what they like. Just what they don't like.

 

 

Yeah.,...good luck with that, Im sure you will find all the answers that way!!.....

 

TFY

[pteromom]

You have to flirt and you have to try to bed them.

 

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh... I don't know.

 

Flirting is good, if it is HONEST flirting. Like if you are on the same wavelength as someone and you have a natural banter with them. That's fodder for awesome chemistry.

 

But the pick-up line, dayum girl you are hot kind of flirting, or the cheesy fake-smile fake-sexy-eyes kind of flirting? That is extremely ICKY, even if coming from a very good looking man. It has to be sincere to work.

 

And the trying to bed them thing is again ok if it is sincere and based on some kind of real connection. But only if you are just trying to get sex. Otherwise, you want to build up some longing in her while you build up some trust and friendship.

 

If you are trying to get to know a girl and create interest, you have to first be interesting. Girls like guys who are intriguing - musicians, explorers, leaders, learners.

 

If what you are offering a girl is a guy with no opinions and no personality who just wants to go home and play video games... well... bleh. (Not saying that is you - just saying in general.)

 

The next thing is you have to OWN the person you are. The old confidence thing. You won't be everyone's cup of tea. Very few people are universally attractive. But you have to be you to the point that everyone can see who you are. It's scary, because authenticity opens you up to judgment. But you have to be willing to take that risk. Show a girl who you are, what you think, how you think, what makes you laugh, what lights you up, etc.

 

Then, you have to show interest in her. Ask her questions about her life, her childhood, what shows she watches, who her friends are, what music she likes. Create a back-and-forth where you do, ohhh about 60% listening and 40% sharing. Laugh. Smile. Show shock when appropriate.

 

The rest of chemistry, you have little control over. I mean, you should make the most of your looks - have a good haircut, take care of your skin and teeth, smell good, wear clothes that represent who you are, etc. But beyond that, someone will either be attracted to you or they won't.

 

But trust me - you want to be a guy who is a friend to everyone. You can't only show interest in the one girl you like (and especially not then move on to the next if she says no.) You want to be approachable and funny and nice - even to the ugly girls, and even to the guys.

 

That's all I got.

[thefooloftheyear]

If you dont want to be friendzoned, then dont allow yourself to be..Guys who are successful with women often dont even have any female friends..And they dont have the answers to your problems...They'll bullshyt you, just like they have already been doing..

 

 

And, I think your stumbling block is that you think if you "put in the work" you will sway these people your way...Its not going to happen ...Heck, there are women that could stand on their head, rub my back, make me a hot lunch every day, and stand in front of me buck naked and I wont go for it...Same for other guys and same for women/girls...There is no "game plan" for this..You can try any scheme you want, stand on your head, do whatever...It wont happen...

 

When the pieces fall together, this is about the easiest thing in the world....You are just putting the cart before the horse, and maybe just setting your sights too high..Maybe there is something else as well, I dunno...

 

TFY

[Rejected Rosebud]

So, SD. There is no magic, there is nothing you can "do" to make a person who's not into you become into you. NOTHING. I think that thread is gone but you kind of remind me of the guy who asked if women were "idle meat waiting to be claimed" like we have no goals and desires of our own when it comes to seeking mates and 99.999999% of men in the world do not come close to meeting them! NOT JUST YOU. You are wasting so much time stuck on these ideas that years and years of your life are literally passing you by! Please please please let go of these fantasies and just start living your life!

[normal person]

I still believe that there is some "magic" answer that I'm not getting and that if I keep posting here, somebody will be able to tell me what I need to know.

 

Please don't hold your breath. There's no magic answer. Attraction is largely tied to biology. The advice people give you here can compliment your efforts here and there, but it's really unlikely that it's going to turn women from off to on at the snap of a finger, or even at all. This goes for everyone: most people on Earth aren't attracted to you and they never will be. Accept it.

 

I have been friendzoned by far too many girls and that isn't going to stop until the way I interact with women changes.

 

The way you interact is one of a few things that probably needs to change. If you think you can just talk to them differently, or say a few magic phrases that will have their panties drop, you're kidding yourself. There are still plenty of other factors at play, for example: everything else about you and how that does or doesn't befit what she's attracted to in a man.

[MidwestUSA]

 

Heck, there are women that could stand on their head, rub my back, make me a hot lunch every day, and stand in front of me buck naked and I wont go for it...

TFY

 

 

Dayum, did you really have to out me in front of everyone? I feel embarrassed enough as is.

 

(Is there anything else I could have done? If so, please, PLEASE tell me. I'm up for it! )

[hotpotato]

If you dont want to be friendzoned, then dont allow yourself to be..Guys who are successful with women often dont even have any female friends..And they dont have the answers to your problems...They'll bullshyt you, just like they have already been doing..

 

 

And, I think your stumbling block is that you think if you "put in the work" you will sway these people your way...Its not going to happen ...Heck, there are women that could stand on their head, rub my back, make me a hot lunch every day, and stand in front of me buck naked and I wont go for it...Same for other guys and same for women/girls...There is no "game plan" for this..You can try any scheme you want, stand on your head, do whatever...It wont happen...

 

When the pieces fall together, this is about the easiest thing in the world....You are just putting the cart before the horse, and maybe just setting your sights too high..Maybe there is something else as well, I dunno...

 

TFY

I think sd views dating as a f ormula. Ok x action + y action = desired result

 

Thats not how relationships work.

 

im afraid sd may become friends with women with intention of dating them. As a female, ive never wanted to date a man I was willing to be friends with. Also, men and women tend to view opposite sex friends very differently. I dont have male friends, only suitors. I dont go out of my way trying to be friends with opposite sex, and I dont think sd should either. Opposire sex friends are not required.

[thefooloftheyear]

Dayum, did you really have to out me in front of everyone? I feel embarrassed enough as is.

 

(Is there anything else I could have done? If so, please, PLEASE tell me. I'm up for it! )

 

 

Everything else was great...But the backrub was a bit weak...it killed the whole deal....

 

TFY

[somedude81]

O.k. This points to a direction. I know you haven't cultivated many friendships in the past.

 

No, I've had many platonic only female friends. This is nothing new for me at all.

 

Instead of pursuing relationships, I strongly recommend you cultivate friendships. If you did, busy girl might have made time for you or had a nice rapport with you as a no-pressure friend that she couldn't as a potential partner.

 

If I had kept my interest secret from Busy girl, as I've done with many girls before her, we would have ended up spending more time together, and my feelings would have continued to build up to the point where I couldn't hold them back anymore. Then I'd tell her, she'd get shocked, feel betrayed and think that I was only her friend because I wanted to date her, we'd have a fight and then never speak again. If it seems that I've done this before, I have.

 

My whole goal with her was to quickly tell her of my interest so that she knows that going forward. Even now I could probably call her up and she'll hang out with me. But she doesn't like me the way I want her to, and that's what bothers me.

 

 

I think that friendships can and do grow into something more, especially for guys who for whatever reason don't "show well" at first. When you talk about "winning over" girls, that happens with time, and the way that you spend time with them when they're not interested in you romantically, is that they're your friends and they don't feel pressured. And then they see you do something very kind, mature, brave, funny, etc. and start looking at you in a new way.

 

I am trying to dial way back the pressure I put on her. But I'm sure it still comes out though my behavior because I'm infatuated with her.

 

If I was content with being her friend, I think we could have a great time together. Then I'd be more natural with her, and she might even start to like me. But how do I get to the point where I don't care if she likes me or not?

[MidwestUSA]

Everything else was great...But the backrub was a bit weak...it killed the whole deal....

 

TFY

 

I'll work on it, I PROMISE! It's those bone spurs in the heels of my hands.

 

But I can't let pain stand in my way, no, I can't. I won't!

 

And here I thought cooking was my weak spot.

[organizedchaos]

I think sd views dating as a f ormula. Ok x action + y action = desired result

 

Thats not how relationships work.

 

im afraid sd may become friends with women with intention of dating them. As a female, ive never wanted to date a man I was willing to be friends with. Also, men and women tend to view opposite sex friends very differently. I dont have male friends, only suitors. I dont go out of my way trying to be friends with opposite sex, and I dont think sd should either. Opposire sex friends are not required.

 

Yep, imo, he views getting a girl to like him to walking in to Best Buy and buying a toaster.

 

"I have the money, I want the toaster, Best Buy will sell it to me. Why wouldn't they? I'm a consumer and I want it."

[Anela]

But how do I get to the point where I don't care if she likes me or not?

 

If you only see her in a salsa class, then take a different class. No contact, and new people to interact with. I really doubt that she will change her mind.

[rester]

 

I am trying to dial way back the pressure I put on her. But I'm sure it still comes out though my behavior because I'm infatuated with her.

 

If I was content with being her friend, I think we could have a great time together. Then I'd be more natural with her, and she might even start to like me. But how do I get to the point where I don't care if she likes me or not?

 

You stop talking to her, texting her, hanging out with her, thinking about her, posting about her on loveshack. I had previously suggested continuing the class and not letting this girl have the power over you to keep you from doing something you enjoy, but she clearly does anyway, so if you don't need this salsa class to graduate and it's only making you fall harder for this girl, stop going. It sounds like you can attend other ones instead.

 

You stop thinking about her by focusing on other things. It's going to take time.

 

Go surfing, bike riding, practice guitar, get drunk with the boys, do pushups and then do some more, study calculus for an extra hour each day. Concentrate on the things you do and when your mind wanders bring it back to the present. Learn to meditate. Clean your apartment. Build a shelf. Wash your car. Take a painting class. Go for a long hike until you can barely walk anymore. Get out in nature for an entire Saturday. Take kickboxing lessons. Learn something, anything, new without the goal of meeting women.

 

Create a life outside trying to get her to like you or overanalyzing why she doesn't.

[Mr Scorpio]

I'm just really worried that I'll meet another girl that I really like and have the same problem. There is no reason why this won't repeat over and over in my life.

 

Any concern over how you are going to pay your bills next year? Rent, utilities, food ... and

 

This is the advice that frustrates me because I feel that it is not addressing the real issue. It assumes that once I get a career and friends and hobbies, that women will suddenly love me, even if the way I talk to and interact with them doesn't change.

 

Those changes are not the answer in and of themselves. As has been mentioned. Those changes will statistically increase your odds of meeting someone compatible with you.

 

You might a gal at work. You might meet a gal while having drinks with co-workers who invite you out. You might meet a gal as a result of your hobbies.

 

Beyond that, those changes will sure as hell make you more appealing to the majority of women. What would your OLD profile say right now in regard to work? To hobbies?

 

What would you tell a woman you do for a living if asked? What do you enjoy doing that she can be a part of? Dancing is a great start mind you. But you have to bring more to the table than "I'm nice and I like to dance".

 

Go surfing, bike riding, practice guitar, get drunk with the boys, do pushups and then do some more, study calculus for an extra hour each day. Concentrate on the things you do and when your mind wanders bring it back to the present. Learn to meditate. Clean your apartment. Build a shelf. Wash your car. Take a painting class. Go for a long hike until you can barely walk anymore. Get out in nature for an entire Saturday. Take kickboxing lessons. Learn something, anything, new without the goal of meeting women.

 

Besides, the real issue here is your personal happiness. You seem to be attributing all of it to one facet of your life. Big. Mistake.

 

If you were so busy having fun doing some of the above, you likely wouldn't care nearly as much that you didn't have a woman in your life. Lonely from time to time? Sure. But all the time? No. Because you'd be busy being you. Being awesome.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Mr Scorpio