Toodaloo Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 If you think this is a thread about how awful men are I am afraid you are going to have to think again. I read in another thread that 80% of men are a-holes and that leaves only 20% good left. So based on those satistics we women are all screwed and I bet far more than 20% of us on here are looking for a good 'un. I sat and thought about that for a while - what complete and utter tosh. I am basing my opinion and "figures" on my own personal experiences with men. I believe that around 99% of men are great. They are wonderful people who will make a woman very happy. The problem is that they do not realize/ believe how wonderful they are until a woman comes along and recognizes that. They think they are being rejected because they are too short, too tall, too fat, too slim, don't earn enough, don't drive a flash enough car... Women does this sound familiar??? So they don't go for it. They are afraid to make mistakes, they don't want to look the fool, they are afraid of getting hurt... Women does that sound familiar??? The 1% that are complete and utter *insert swear word of your choice* don't actually care what you think so they go and do what they do to get what they want anyway. Hence they project confidence and get the girl. Girl only gets hit on by that small percentage and starts to think that is her "option" then starts to think all men are *go back to your chosen swear word* and so the vicious cycle of feeling rejected continually, feeling stuck in a rut, feeling as though you will never find someone to love, feeling as though the opposite sex is just going to use and abuse you begins... Men - does this sound familiar??? OK so some men we are not going to get on with at all. It doesn't make them "bad". Some men we are not going to fancy for what ever reason (yep even the super dooper good looking ones are in this bracket). Some men we will really like but not get as far as love. Some men we just will not meet, some men may have the same values as us but not the same regard for those values... The list goes on... Then once we have worked our way through all the others we find one that we do get on with, we do fancy in a sexual way, we do work well together with, we do feel more than just friendship with, we have the same values and beliefs... So tell me why are we bashing men in general just because a very small percentage are indeed *there is that swear word again*? It doesn't make sense at all! I am sorry but I am completely and utterly perplexed as to why we are all engaging in (wo)men bashing threads at the moment instead of trying to help each other form strategies to help us get over the emotional connections we do make that go wrong for whatever reason and get back out there and find our own little version of happiness... Have we as a species become so shallow that we can't see beyond what is directly in front of our noses? We are using OLD as some sort of mail order shop that is supposed to make it easy. It never was going to be easy in the first place regardless of how you go about finding "the one". Stepping off of the soap box - who wants it next? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think that people are people. They are sometimes bad, sometimes good. Mostly clueless with very little self-awareness or even idea on how to sort their problems out. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_K Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It's a fair assessment, but online dating changes the dynamic - online, it's not just the 1% who approach. It's all guys. Nobody's really afraid of sending a first contact email. So if the women now clearly have more options than the 1%, the argument starts to fall down. Either you have to assume that most women online are so terrible at picking guys that they continually manage to pick the same few bad ones, or in fact the percentage is in reality much higher. Which is it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodaloo Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 It's a fair assessment, but online dating changes the dynamic - online, it's not just the 1% who approach. It's all guys. Nobody's really afraid of sending a first contact email. So if the women now clearly have more options than the 1%, the argument starts to fall down. Either you have to assume that most women online are so terrible at picking guys that they continually manage to pick the same few bad ones, or in fact the percentage is in reality much higher. Which is it? Or how about that they assume that they are picking the wrong men and so actively try to go for something else because it hasn't worked before... and end up mucking it up again... There is also the approach method. Which will vary between each person as to how they prefer it. Do they want someone to "blow them a kiss" or "poke" what ever it is for the not a message but making contact thing on them all or are they the sort of person who prefers a more direct message? Personally I would struggle to send a "first" message. More so than saying hello in real life because on a dating site you are there to find a date which means if you send the first message the implication is that you are trying to hook someone... So already instead of just being able to get to know people the added pressure is there... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodaloo Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think that people are people. They are sometimes bad, sometimes good. Mostly clueless with very little self-awareness or even idea on how to sort their problems out. So you joined loveshack for the same reasons I did!!! What a shock... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I believe that around 99% of men are great. They are wonderful people who will make a woman very happy. Well that's definitely too optimistic. Some estimates are that 4% of men are sociopaths. Now add in non sociopathic alcoholics, drug addicts, woman beaters, rapists, and others with various personality disorders and you have a lot more than 1% of men who aren't great guys and aren't going to be making their women too happy. Regardless of gender, way more than 1% of the population are *******s. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have found that male bashers for the most part seem deep down attracted to the same qualities they claim to hate about men. The same is true for misogynists as well. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodaloo Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Well that's definitely too optimistic. Some estimates are that 4% of men are sociopaths. Now add in non sociopathic alcoholics, drug addicts, woman beaters, rapists, and others with various personality disorders and you have a lot more than 1% of men who aren't great guys and aren't going to be making their women too happy. Regardless of gender, way more than 1% of the population are *******s. Lots of women have personality problems too. It doesn't mean that they are not wonderful people in their own way. You can be a manic depressive and still raise money for charity or hold down a good job from home. I think those numbers you quote are actually a bit high. If you compare the numbers in jail for example to those out of jail... That would be a good indication of how many bad 'uns there are compared to good 'uns. I very much doubt that for every 99 men at least one other is in jail... I believe that the media is skewing our view because we only hear about the bad ones and we don't hear about the good ones... I think the 1% that we "quote" is actually the 1% we are looking for that would gel with us in a relationship rather than them being actual a-holes. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Like Emilia, I think people in general are good who many not always have pleasing actions, but do usually have good intentions. I think self awareness plays a factor and common sense is in the minority. But, overall, sure, I like men. I tend to think more like a guy does anyway. But I do not think most men are so powerful, self aware, or vindictive they their purpose in life is to scar the female population. I think we all want for the same things, someone to love, to appreciate us, and value our presence in one's life. Men are a good bunch. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
WhatIsLove2014 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think the same thing can be said about women and men and it is that some start out good, get jaded and turn bad. Also, some are bad, find "the one" or think that they have and change the way they act for that person. I don't think 80% of men are a*holes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Frank2thepoint Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I am sorry but I am completely and utterly perplexed as to why we are all engaging in (wo)men bashing threads at the moment [/b]instead of trying to help each other form strategies to help us get over the emotional connections we do make that go wrong for whatever reason and get back out there and find our own little version of happiness[/b]... I want to address this. There are a small percentage of people, on LS and other relationship message boards, that really want to find an answer or insight that will help with their real life relationship issue(s) compared to the general public that would never dare to look for answers, except for what they think and feel are the only answers they need. So, if you convince one woman on here that there are good guys out there, not just a*sholes they've dated, there is probably an exponential amount of women that will never seek help or answers, nor change their perception about men. Same argument for men as well. If you follow the math, both genders will be exposed to several of the opposite gender that would never want a solution, or little version of happiness. The problem perpetuates, even for the few people that know better. This results in one of two things. The person breaks down from the stress of it, feels powerless to make any real change. Or the person becomes inured to the point they don't care anymore, they disconnect themselves from it, leaving a void. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Imajerk17 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Great thread. I've *ahem* earned my username by coming down hard on BOTH genders, both for not taking responsibility. I've come down hard on the males here for whining (or trying the same thing over and over when it is clearly not working) instead of investing in their own lives--career, hobbies, passions, school, which will help them become better men, men who will be a lot more attractive to women. I think that most of the guys who were whining on Lernaean_Hydra's thread need to be taking inventory of themselves first. I've also come down hard on the women though, for not taking more responsibility for their choices and relying too much on "fate" or "chemistry"--and then when it doesn't work out, blaming "all men" as you said Toodaloo. A woman doesn't "have bad luck" or "only attract jerks", so much as those are the types of guys she chooses to let into her life. Women have passed on some good guys, and for whatever reason, sometimes they don't do it very nicely either. Many a genuine guy has experienced more than once taking a woman on a date, and then after the date, her blowing him off completely after without even the courtesy of thanking him but letting him know that she doesn't feel it is a match. Thanks again for writing this! Edited November 4, 2014 by Imajerk17 3 Link to post Share on other sites
WhatIsLove2014 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You'll thank me for saying that later. Ahem...thanks lol Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Lots of women have personality problems too. It doesn't mean that they are not wonderful people in their own way. You can be a manic depressive and still raise money for charity or hold down a good job from home. The topic was about men, but I would also say that "99% of women are great" would be too optimistic. I'd probably say that 5-10% of humans - either gender - are *******s of one type or another whom one would do best to avoid. I'm not talking about mental illnesses. I'm talking about personality disorders, bad character, serious addictions, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't know where you saw something about 80% of the men out there being bad, but that's wrong in my opinion. Even with men that I tend to disagree with a lot of the time, I can usually find something that we agree on (even if it's just to disagree ). I find that fear tends to cloud things - fear of reality, realizing that something is going to be more difficult than we'd hoped. I know that there are times when realizing my own mistakes just hurt too much (when combined with other things), and it is easier to assign blame, but I always become aware of my end of things, eventually. I've had times when I've found myself telling someone something that I need to hear, as well. Things can be unfair at times, though, and they get to me when I encounter them outside of LS. I've been trying to take a break from this place, because I used to do much better when I wrote things out in a notebook, and looked at things from all sides: I'd vent, and then I might see something from the other person's point of view, then I'd go back to my side of things, and it went on, until I felt better. Sometimes something would just click as I wrote (it happens here, too, as I mentioned above). Here, I'm told that I'm too old, that I must have done something wrong to still be single, that I can't empathize with any struggling man, anywhere, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 If this can be any guidance, considering what it takes to get incarcerated, men do pretty well in living up to their name as less than generally good. For every incarcerated man there are scores with similarly bad behaviors who 'skate' the law and society's sensibilities. Live long enough as a man and we experience them in spades. Women are often shielded from those behaviors due to the general dynamics between men and women, mainly revolving around sex, in that the bad guys want sex and adjust their behaviors a bit with the object of their desire. They have no such desires of other men, presuming hetero. Are 'most' guys decent people? Well, if 50% is the dividing line, IMO yeah. Super-Majority? IDK. Live enough decades as a man and one becomes skeptical. I say this watching the machinations of the mid-term elections today. Guess which gender the majority of politicians and judiciary are? heh.... Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think that 99% of men can be great at their iobs and to their friends. Dating and love are areas in which humans can be seen at their worse. Its a different ballgame when it comes to sex and love. Hard truth, many men are squirrels trying to get a nut. Thats just biology, oh well. I spend very little time with them. Im single for years oftentimes. I dont have to worry about the drama and stress. Before anyone says anything, I havent been passing up on a bunch of good men. Ive dated a lot of different kinds of men. By dating I dont mean always full on relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
most_distant_galaxy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 There is jerk potential in every man. Few of them are jerks in low doses. If you want to see how much of a real jerk a man is, observe how he acts after a breakup. There you see what he really is. From all the men I've been with, only one acted decently afterwards. The others proved to be drama queens, obsessive, disrespectful and backstabbers. Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have found that male bashers for the most part seem deep down attracted to the same qualities they claim to hate about men. The same is true for misogynists as well. Yep, and that makes them hate us even more, and even hate themselves. And around and around we go.... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Yep, and that makes them hate us even more, and even hate themselves. And around and around we go.... I have seen hardcore militant feminists with complete male chauvinist pigs who weren't even that attractive and I don't get what it is that made him so attractive to her. If you ever want to turn a radical feminist on challenge her and don't back down and apologize. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 There is jerk potential in every man. Few of them are jerks in low doses. If you want to see how much of a real jerk a man is, observe how he acts after a breakup. There you see what he really is. From all the men I've been with, only one acted decently afterwards. The others proved to be drama queens, obsessive, disrespectful and backstabbers. Try dating women and then break up with them. "Oh look, my car got keyed and they even wrote something". I swear, why do they have to abuse my car!!!!???? But I have learned! People are like, "why are you putting that heavy duty canvas car cover on your car? The weather is beautiful! And whats with all the straps locking it in place?" "I'm waiting for the storm to pass" Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If you ever want to turn a radical feminist on challenge her and don't back down and apologize. 1. I would never want to. 2. I hope I never run into one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 To the men who are bashing women in this thread (as you do everywhere else), what about this part? I am sorry but I am completely and utterly perplexed as to why we are all engaging in (wo)men bashing threads at the moment instead of trying to help each other form strategies to help us get over the emotional connections we do make that go wrong for whatever reason and get back out there and find our own little version of happiness... This mentions women-bashing threads as well - of which there are quite a few. Why can't you acknowledge all of the good women here, and empathize? Why can't you try to understand a little more - as most of us try to understand and help you? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodaloo Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 What crap! I came here to bash men with you. I have been lied to! Yeah sorry about that! I think the problem is not that there are not decent men (or women) in plentiful stocks out there. I think the problem is actually finding "the one" that you gel with... So its not a case of (wo)men are all *please continue with your own choice of swear word* I think its a case of it being a problem in finding that "one" that you gel with... Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Zen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 There is jerk potential in every man. Few of them are jerks in low doses. If you want to see how much of a real jerk a man is, observe how he acts after a breakup. There you see what he really is. From all the men I've been with, only one acted decently afterwards. The others proved to be drama queens, obsessive, disrespectful and backstabbers. This seems like an over simplistic view. It also depends on your perspective. When men (people) act up its because they actually give a crap. People seem to forget that. We always like the calm, even keeled person, but we often forget they are calm because they don't give a crap enough to get worked up. Link to post Share on other sites
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