After three years of NC, MM has contacted me again.

[cif]

She happened to get pregnant again and no more than ever it is harder to leave. He is not financially well off-- they make do right now, but there is no way he could financially support two households (eg- paying his mortgage and living somewhere else on his own).

 

For you to say that he is not unhappy because he stays married is completely a fallacy and very naive. People stay in mediocre marraiges very often.

 

 

Then he should have talked his wife into getting a job/starting a career instead of having another child, wouldn't you say?

[anika99]

This MM just sounds so immature and selfish,

 

 

Kismet I have seen you talk a lot about how he loves his wife but he's not in love with her, how he cares for her as a friend and mother of his children but he doesn't have the passion and connection with her that he shares with you, that he and his wife just coexist as friends and their love for each other is more familial then it is exciting and fulfilling and romantic and all that other great stuff that he has with you.

 

 

Do you have young nieces and nephews? Little cousins? Any small children in your neighborhood? Could you have a bunch of them over the next time your MM comes to visit? Actually make sure you have a few little kids around every time the MM wants to see you. Even if he just wants to talk on the phone with you, make sure you have at least a couple of children at your place competing for your attention so that you have to ask to the MM to repeat himself a couple of times and then maybe abruptly tell him that you have to go now because little jimmy just flushed something down the toilet and little amy is drawing on the walls, then hang up on him. When he comes over mid day for some sexy romantic time, ask him to take care of the kids instead so that you can finally get some laundry done or run an errand. If he comes over at night, let him referee the fights breaking out between the kids while you try to make dinner and then the two of you can deal with all the other family needs together. Like taking the kids to their hockey practice or dance recitals, helping them with their homework, getting them bathed and into bed, trying to pick up the house a little so it doesn't look like a cyclone hit and then finally falling into bed at the end of the day hoping that nobody wakes up for at least 7 or 8 hours before you have to get up and do that day all over again. Maybe you and he will be able to sneak some sex before you drift off to sleep but you sure as hell don't have the time to spend hours giving him blow jobs and back massages or gazing romantically into each other eyes while you have deep discussions about everything under the sun. So you reach for each other in the dark and satisfy your sexual need with urgency while trying not to be noisy because you don't want to wake the kids. Then after a night of too little sleep you wake up and immediately you have to start rushing around like a crazy person dealing with the hundreds of big and little things you have to do for those little people who depend on you for everything. Their well being and happiness depends on you and don't want to let them down.

 

 

Does the above sound sexy and romantic to you? Because once people have children they really do have to put the majority of their energy and time into those children. Not saying every single day is drudgery, kids bring a lot of joy, but there isn't time to spend lounging around the house with your spouse having sex and long uninterrupted talks. With a house full of kids there is very little time or privacy for mom and dad. Of course the excitement and passion fades while you work together to raise these little people the best you can. Ideally the parents would set aside a little time every week to spend alone together but with 2 kids or more you can never schedule anything with certainty. A kid or 2 might come down sick or any other number of things that can happen that will spoil even the best laid plans.

 

 

From reading your old threads it sounded like your affair with this MM mostly consisted of him coming around your place for a few hours and having sex and talking. You looking all sexy while giving him your undivided time and attention. Hours spend discussing everything under the sun while lazily lounging together in your bed having sex off and on. Then he goes home and silently resents his wife because she doesn't give him the same attention, she doesn't spend hours in the middle of the day stroking his ego and his dick. Logically he understands that she can't do that, that she is running a household with children and that his children can't just cease to exist because he wants more attention. He doesn't actually want his wife to neglect his kids and he loves her being such a great mom, so instead he just feels sorry for himself and his lot in life. Maybe he could spend more time helping out at home so his wife can have more time to spend on herself and him, maybe he could have some empathy for her and realize that she is also a person who has longings and dreams and hopes that she has had to put on the back burner while she tends to the reality of married life and kids. But he doesn't do that. No instead he just feels so sorry for himself that his lot in life is the marriage and children that he willingly chose and then sneaks around having his little fantasy affairs while his wife stays loyal.

 

 

Married love and affair love cannot be compared ever. The affair will always win when it comes to exciting sex and passion because affairs are by nature sexy and passionate, otherwise nobody would bother having one. Marriages can have great sex and passion too but those things tend to come in waves. The tide comes in and the tide goes out. When the passion and sex isn't the greatest, it's the friendship and familial love that keeps the husband and wife together. They are supposed to be a team and get through the dry spells together when parenthood and life are being overly demanding. I notice that people involved in affairs seem to think that passion and hot sex and romantic connections are the be all and end all to everything. They are quick to dismiss the family love that grows between spouses during a long term marriage as worthless and not as good as the exciting affair love but that family love is what stops most married people from ever leaving, because they know that kind of love is actually very valuable and not easily replaced. It has deep roots. It's not exciting, there are no butterflies, it isn't mysterious and mystical, it doesn't take your breath away and leave you begging for more but it runs quiet, dependable, sustainable and it creates mighty strong bonds. Most married people don't want to toss that out the window to chase a romantic love that they know is not sustainable, that if that romantic affair even lasts it wil eventually turn into the same familial love they already have.

[xxoo]

While we are at it-- I have to wonder how his wife would answer that question. Is it worth it? If her children didn't exist, would she say life with him was worth it? Why does she stay with someone who cheats on her for a decade, who continues to reach out to his mistress despite years of marital counseling, who has asked her for a divorce several times, who has expressed to me so many times how little passion he feels for her (and surely she must feel it at some point). But she stays with him-- out of obligation? Children? Is it worth it to wake up every day and wonder if he's doing things every second he's out of the house?

 

What's worth it anymore. It's all subjective.

 

The new baby probably reflects a second (third, fourth) honeymoon period. Renewed desrire and loving feelings --->sex and idealistic fantasies ----> pregnancy ----> reality hits---> he reaches out to you.

 

And the cycle continues.

[cif]

I've never responded, always just listened. I know it's a pointless endeavor, but the other day my sister asked me if I have ever really told him the true depth of how I feel, or if I ever asked him to leave. I said no. She said, why not? What do you have to lose. Maybe he's been waiting ten years to hear that this is what you want from him. You can't assume he just figures it out from your actions or subtle hints.

 

 

Please, KismetGirl, for the love of everything holy do not do this. You will start your heartbreak all over again.. and the end result.. he will stay married with baby #4 on the way.

[xxoo]

For the sake of dignity alone, don't declare your love for him at this point. It'll boost his ego at the expense of yours.

 

What boring dad of 4 living the family life wouldn't get a lift from having a gorgeous woman pining over him for a decade?

 

You've got to lose the rose colored glasses and see this guy for who he is and what he does.

[LifesontheUp]

This is completely incorrect. Only in some fantasy world do people just get up and leave marriages just because they are not fully happy. People stay in unhappy marriages VERY often-- especially when there are children involved. This guy has three kids and one on the way. I do not believe he wanted another child right now but obviously they did not take precautions like they should have. They have been trying to work on their marriage for the sake of their children and to not throw away 15 years of being together but it's not working. She happened to get pregnant again and no more than ever it is harder to leave. He is not financially well off-- they make do right now, but there is no way he could financially support two households (eg- paying his mortgage and living somewhere else on his own).

 

For you to say that he is not unhappy because he stays married is completely a fallacy and very naive. People stay in mediocre marraiges very often.

 

He doesn't hate his wife, he just doesnt want to be married to her. If he could have a life where he maintained a parental union with her and their children but was able to be with another woman who met his personal, emotional, physical needs better he would do it in a heartbeat, but he can't. His children mean more to him than his personal happiness so he stays, but that doesn't mean he is happy.

 

I know him more than any of you on this board. I know him a very long time. I have no doubt his wife knows he is unhappy, but as I've said before, they are not compatible people. They are good parents together, they have a fondness for one another, but they are not in love. They don't have a personal understanding of one another. They see the world differently. Trust me when I say I understand perfectly how unhappy he is on a personal level, but that his relationship with his children and his ability to be a full=time father is what is most important to him. He is not willing to find personal happiness for himself in a relationship with another woman if it means losing his children from full-time status. It is not easy being a "part time father". No matter how many people are divorced in the world, your statistics are meaningless. Yes, people get used to divorced, but that doesnt make it easy to pull the trigger, especially not now that his wife is pregnant again. It's just not that simple. It's not that black and white. And before you tell me "if he was so unhappy he wouldnt get her pregnant again" then stop and think-- pregnancy and sex do not require that the two people involved be in love, or happy together. It requires only that they decided to have sex, which people often do in an attempt to try and save their relationship.

 

If he was so happy he wouldnt keep risking his life by talking to me. He wouldnt track me down halfway around the world when he didn't even know that I'm in the country. I understand why he stays. I understand why he has sex with his wife on occasion. None of these things are confusing to me.

 

But for anyone to say that people are in love and happy just because they don't get divorced or they occasionally have sex is delusional.

 

You only know what he tells you.

 

And again he isn't leaving. He wants a divorce you say but instead him and his wife are having another baby. The only delusional one here is you KG.

 

Again he'd leave if he wanted to. You just refuse to see he could because its easier for you to believe otherwise.

[KismetGirl]

This MM just sounds so immature and selfish,

 

 

Kismet I have seen you talk a lot about how he loves his wife but he's not in love with her, how he cares for her as a friend and mother of his children but he doesn't have the passion and connection with her that he shares with you, that he and his wife just coexist as friends and their love for each other is more familial then it is exciting and fulfilling and romantic and all that other great stuff that he has with you.

 

 

Do you have young nieces and nephews? Little cousins? Any small children in your neighborhood? Could you have a bunch of them over the next time your MM comes to visit? Actually make sure you have a few little kids around every time the MM wants to see you. Even if he just wants to talk on the phone with you, make sure you have at least a couple of children at your place competing for your attention so that you have to ask to the MM to repeat himself a couple of times and then maybe abruptly tell him that you have to go now because little jimmy just flushed something down the toilet and little amy is drawing on the walls, then hang up on him. When he comes over mid day for some sexy romantic time, ask him to take care of the kids instead so that you can finally get some laundry done or run an errand. If he comes over at night, let him referee the fights breaking out between the kids while you try to make dinner and then the two of you can deal with all the other family needs together. Like taking the kids to their hockey practice or dance recitals, helping them with their homework, getting them bathed and into bed, trying to pick up the house a little so it doesn't look like a cyclone hit and then finally falling into bed at the end of the day hoping that nobody wakes up for at least 7 or 8 hours before you have to get up and do that day all over again. Maybe you and he will be able to sneak some sex before you drift off to sleep but you sure as hell don't have the time to spend hours giving him blow jobs and back massages or gazing romantically into each other eyes while you have deep discussions about everything under the sun. So you reach for each other in the dark and satisfy your sexual need with urgency while trying not to be noisy because you don't want to wake the kids. Then after a night of too little sleep you wake up and immediately you have to start rushing around like a crazy person dealing with the hundreds of big and little things you have to do for those little people who depend on you for everything. Their well being and happiness depends on you and don't want to let them down.

 

 

Does the above sound sexy and romantic to you? Because once people have children they really do have to put the majority of their energy and time into those children. Not saying every single day is drudgery, kids bring a lot of joy, but there isn't time to spend lounging around the house with your spouse having sex and long uninterrupted talks. With a house full of kids there is very little time or privacy for mom and dad. Of course the excitement and passion fades while you work together to raise these little people the best you can. Ideally the parents would set aside a little time every week to spend alone together but with 2 kids or more you can never schedule anything with certainty. A kid or 2 might come down sick or any other number of things that can happen that will spoil even the best laid plans.

 

 

From reading your old threads it sounded like your affair with this MM mostly consisted of him coming around your place for a few hours and having sex and talking. You looking all sexy while giving him your undivided time and attention. Hours spend discussing everything under the sun while lazily lounging together in your bed having sex off and on. Then he goes home and silently resents his wife because she doesn't give him the same attention, she doesn't spend hours in the middle of the day stroking his ego and his dick. Logically he understands that she can't do that, that she is running a household with children and that his children can't just cease to exist because he wants more attention. He doesn't actually want his wife to neglect his kids and he loves her being such a great mom, so instead he just feels sorry for himself and his lot in life. Maybe he could spend more time helping out at home so his wife can have more time to spend on herself and him, maybe he could have some empathy for her and realize that she is also a person who has longings and dreams and hopes that she has had to put on the back burner while she tends to the reality of married life and kids. But he doesn't do that. No instead he just feels so sorry for himself that his lot in life is the marriage and children that he willingly chose and then sneaks around having his little fantasy affairs while his wife stays loyal.

 

 

Married love and affair love cannot be compared ever. The affair will always win when it comes to exciting sex and passion because affairs are by nature sexy and passionate, otherwise nobody would bother having one. Marriages can have great sex and passion too but those things tend to come in waves. The tide comes in and the tide goes out. When the passion and sex isn't the greatest, it's the friendship and familial love that keeps the husband and wife together. They are supposed to be a team and get through the dry spells together when parenthood and life are being overly demanding. I notice that people involved in affairs seem to think that passion and hot sex and romantic connections are the be all and end all to everything. They are quick to dismiss the family love that grows between spouses during a long term marriage as worthless and not as good as the exciting affair love but that family love is what stops most married people from ever leaving, because they know that kind of love is actually very valuable and not easily replaced. It has deep roots. It's not exciting, there are no butterflies, it isn't mysterious and mystical, it doesn't take your breath away and leave you begging for more but it runs quiet, dependable, sustainable and it creates mighty strong bonds. Most married people don't want to toss that out the window to chase a romantic love that they know is not sustainable, that if that romantic affair even lasts it wil eventually turn into the same familial love they already have.

 

I get your point in general, but he felt that way about his wife before they had children. So while your point is valid in the general sense, it's not valid towards their relationship because they never had that passion to begin with. He's very clearly said their relationship was more one of comfort and familiarity from the start, and that he's an idiot for not acknowledging this before he married her. It has only gotten worse. He likes their family dynamic. As he says "we are really good at making awesome kids, just not so great at being with each other". They are good parents. They have no passion as husband as wife. They never have. Not from day one. When I met him their first child was barely out of the womb and he was unhappy well before he met me.

[KismetGirl]

You only know what he tells you.

 

And again he isn't leaving. He wants a divorce you say but instead him and his wife are having another baby. The only delusional one here is you KG.

 

Again he'd leave if he wanted to. You just refuse to see he could because its easier for you to believe otherwise.

 

I didnt say he is going anywhere. Simply stating that people who are in happy marriages don't spend a decade running after the same person, trying to find someone to replace her when she's unavailable, and continue to cheat on their wife for almost the entire duration of their marriage with this same person.

 

He may not divorce for a plethora of reasons, and he's an idiot for being careless enough to get her pregnant again when they are probably in the worst two years of their marriage to date (he's shown me messages she sends him when he's even five minutes late home, trust me, theyre not roses and happiness at home right now), but I assure you, people who dont know him on here can't tell me he's happy just because he stays married and has a pregnant wife. I've known people more miserable than him who stayed married and had children throughout an unhappy marriage in an attempt to make it better. He wouldn't be the first, he won't be the last.

[KismetGirl]

For the sake of dignity alone, don't declare your love for him at this point. It'll boost his ego at the expense of yours.

 

What boring dad of 4 living the family life wouldn't get a lift from having a gorgeous woman pining over him for a decade?

 

You've got to lose the rose colored glasses and see this guy for who he is and what he does.

 

Agree with you here. Had a moment of idiocy last night when I thought maybe I should tell him, but I won't. That much I agree with, he doesn't deserve it. I think in some ways I wanted him to feel a bit sad. I know he loves me, I've just never said it to him in return. I think I wanted him to feel a bit more sad that someone reciprocates his feelings but due to his selfishness and idiocy in choosing to stay married all these years when he should have left well before baby #2....anyway. I wont tell him.

[KismetGirl]

The new baby probably reflects a second (third, fourth) honeymoon period. Renewed desrire and loving feelings --->sex and idealistic fantasies ----> pregnancy ----> reality hits---> he reaches out to you.

 

And the cycle continues.

 

See post #168 because I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot on that one...people often have sex when they are not wanting to really be together in an attempt to save a relationship.

 

I know what new baby reflects...it's pretty obvious. He said they've been trying to work on their marriage the last couple years (while we weren't speaking). Going to counseling, etc. Been making an attempt to disclose "wants and desires" that were being unfulfilled before to see if that would help their marital dynamic. At the end of the day he is seeing it's not a matter of effort on his wife's part to give him the duration or type of sex he wants....they just don't have a connection in that regard. It's sex for the sake of sex. ::shrug:: but they tried and she got pregnant again in the process.

 

Unfortunately they're just not a good match. I don't know why. But he's been this way with her since well before he met me. Trust me when I say even during our affair when she got pregnant before he'd get excited about fatherhood every time. THis time he looks well miserable about it. He never spared my feelings before when he told me about pregnancies and looking happy about them. No reason to start pretending ten years later.

Edited November 22, 2014 by KismetGirl

[FusionCutter]

See post #168 because I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot on that one...people often have sex when they are not wanting to really be together in an attempt to save a relationship.

 

I know what new baby reflects...it's pretty obvious. He said they've been trying to work on their marriage the last couple years (while we weren't speaking). Going to counseling, etc. Been making an attempt to disclose "wants and desires" that were being unfulfilled before to see if that would help their marital dynamic. At the end of the day he is seeing it's not a matter of effort on his wife's part to give him the duration or type of sex he wants....they just don't have a connection in that regard. It's sex for the sake of sex. ::shrug:: but they tried and she got pregnant again in the process.

 

Unfortunately they're just not a good match. I don't know why. But he's been this way with her since well before he met me. Trust me when I say even during our affair when she got pregnant before he'd get excited about fatherhood every time. THis time he looks well miserable about it. He never spared my feelings before when he told me about pregnancies and looking happy about them. No reason to start pretending ten years later.

 

Why do you obsess so much about this man's state of happiness?

[anika99]

I get your point in general, but he felt that way about his wife before they had children. So while your point is valid in the general sense, it's not valid towards their relationship because they never had that passion to begin with. He's very clearly said their relationship was more one of comfort and familiarity from the start, and that he's an idiot for not acknowledging this before he married her. It has only gotten worse. He likes their family dynamic. As he says "we are really good at making awesome kids, just not so great at being with each other". They are good parents. They have no passion as husband as wife. They never have. Not from day one. When I met him their first child was barely out of the womb and he was unhappy well before he met me.

 

To this I can only repeat what so many other posters have already said and that is that you only know what he says. You are an outsider and you have a very tiny bit of information fed to you by him regarding his marriage. You don't really know and you will never really know what his marriage is all about because you are not in it. You just listen to the bits he tells you and fill in the gaps with what you want to believe.

 

 

In the end, what does it matter if he stays because of the kids or if he stays because he loves his wife. What difference does it make in the big picture. He is not leaving, he is going to have his 4th child and he is going to stay married. Who cares why?

[xxoo]

. I think I wanted him to feel a bit more sad that someone reciprocates his feelings but due to his selfishness and idiocy in choosing to stay married all these years when he should have left well before baby #2....anyway. I wont tell him.

 

If he'd left before baby #2, he wouldn't have the great kids who bring him joy. He wouldn't have his kids being raised by this woman who is such a great mom.

 

Do you really believe that making a family of great kids with his wife, rather than leaving for his lover, reflects selfishness and idiocy?

[KismetGirl]

If he'd left before baby #2, he wouldn't have the great kids who bring him joy. He wouldn't have his kids being raised by this woman who is such a great mom.

 

Do you really believe that making a family of great kids with his wife, rather than leaving for his lover, reflects selfishness and idiocy?

 

If you take children out of the equation, then yes, he should have left long ago. if they never existed, you can't miss them. Obviously they exist so everything has its purpose in the end. I wish my parents stayed together, but they divorced, and if they hadnt divorced, i wouldnt have my amazing half-siblings that my mother then had with my stepfather.

 

But if my parents had stayed together i'd never have those half-siblings and so i wouldnt know they existed. It's an existential and moot point. His children have nothing to do with this argument.

 

So yes, he should have divorced her a long time ago instead of spending a decade, and probably more, cheating on her.

 

But he didnt , so he has his amazing kids, and his wife continues to suffer a decade+ marriage in which her husband wishes he'd married someone else.

 

I have nothing to do with this statement. Regardless of whether he ended up with me or not, he should have left her before he even met me. I have nothing to do with it. And neither does the current existence of his children.

[KismetGirl]

Why do you obsess so much about this man's state of happiness?

 

If you have to ask why I wonder about the state of his happiness then you have missed the entirety of this situation.

[KismetGirl]

To this I can only repeat what so many other posters have already said and that is that you only know what he says. You are an outsider and you have a very tiny bit of information fed to you by him regarding his marriage. You don't really know and you will never really know what his marriage is all about because you are not in it. You just listen to the bits he tells you and fill in the gaps with what you want to believe.

 

 

In the end, what does it matter if he stays because of the kids or if he stays because he loves his wife. What difference does it make in the big picture. He is not leaving, he is going to have his 4th child and he is going to stay married. Who cares why?

 

I dont know, who cares about anything? Curiosity, a need to understand, philosophy. Just because you can't change something doesn't mean you don't wonder "why". People ask silly questions sometimes. The heart and mind are often going in opposite directions, though the reality of a situation doesn't make me not want to question the emotional reasoning behind it.

[xxoo]

If you take children out of the equation, then yes, he should have left long ago. if they never existed, you can't miss them. Obviously they exist so everything has its purpose in the end. I wish my parents stayed together, but they divorced, and if they hadnt divorced, i wouldnt have my amazing half-siblings that my mother then had with my stepfather.

 

But if my parents had stayed together i'd never have those half-siblings and so i wouldnt know they existed. It's an existential and moot point. His children have nothing to do with this argument.

 

So yes, he should have divorced her a long time ago instead of spending a decade, and probably more, cheating on her.

 

But he didnt , so he has his amazing kids, and his wife continues to suffer a decade+ marriage in which her husband wishes he'd married someone else.

 

I have nothing to do with this statement. Regardless of whether he ended up with me or not, he should have left her before he even met me. I have nothing to do with it. And neither does the current existence of his children.

 

You are focusing on ONE aspect of his happiness: romance.

 

Another huge aspect is family, kids. He wanted and created that with her. It was arguably a wise move, because his kids are having a happy childhood with two devoted parents.

 

He created the family he wanted. To characterize it as a mistake now is rewriting history of something he did intentionally and with joy. He may be happier in his scenario than he'd be with a passionate romance but less successful family.

[whichwayisup]

I get your point in general, but he felt that way about his wife before they had children. So while your point is valid in the general sense, it's not valid towards their relationship because they never had that passion to begin with. He's very clearly said their relationship was more one of comfort and familiarity from the start, and that he's an idiot for not acknowledging this before he married her. It has only gotten worse. He likes their family dynamic. As he says "we are really good at making awesome kids, just not so great at being with each other". They are good parents. They have no passion as husband as wife. They never have. Not from day one. When I met him their first child was barely out of the womb and he was unhappy well before he met me.

 

He likes his life as it is. It's that plain and simple. He chose to have children with someone he loves but doesn't feel passion for. You know what? That's not the end of the world. He's happy enough and I truly believe if was really unhappy he would have divorced before their 2nd or 3rd child. He isn't suffering. Only thing that's suffering is his big ego. He needs to suck it up.

 

Or he's greatly lied to you about everything from day one.

 

Hope these next 8 weeks speed up for you so you can put all this behind you, rebuild and focus on your life. Leave the past IN the past, lock that door and never open it again. There's a big reason why you two didn't and aren't ending up together. He has his life, no intention of ever changing things and you're just starting yours - Don't let 10 years of loving him ruin your chances of finding a man who will adore and love you, someone to marry and have kids with.

[Leda]

I guess what I was trying to say before is that it probably isn't this guy's marriage that's unhappy, it's him---his deep insecurities and willingness to look for emotional and sexual release outside of his real relationship/real home life/family life would make him "unhappy" in any long term, committed, intimate relationship.

 

I wouldn't say this if he weren't a SERIAL cheater--if you were the only woman he'd cheated with during his marriage.

 

He lies to his wife and I bet he's lied to you about her. I bet he was "in love" when he married her but couldn't ride out the rough times with a new baby (see Anika99's post, above), and when he was first trying to use you for extramarital emotional release and validation, he lied and said they'd never been "in love."

 

These kinds of people can be soooo charming and hook-y. I understand why you have the fantasy that he doesn't know how madly in love with him and obsessed with him you are. But I expect he knows. And he loves it! I expect that he also knows you well enough to know how insecure you are, as well as being smart and beautiful and all the wonderful things I'm sure you are too. I think if you really admit to yourself how troubled and dishonest this guy is and how bad he--and participating in an affair--have made you feel, you'll have to admit that your parents weren't really so wonderful and didn't put their kids first. Admitting that is hard. But the honesty might help prepare you to really own all your wit, beauty, and vulnerability and connect with a real partner, NOT a serial cheater or some guy you think would reject you if you're not a willowy blond ten years younger than him (I was reading your other thread, not to pick on you but because I enjoy your writing.). Individual therapy might help

a lot.

[Baby123]

Kismet I really find it strange your focusing on his reasons for staying, her reasons for staying.

 

All of this is wasting the time you should be spending finding an available man that you so badly want.

 

Men respect women who have self respect- your not respecting yourself by caring more about him and his life than your own. What is this adding to

You.

[Poppy47]

Kismet,

Don't look for a man to fulfill your dreams. Find yourself first and learn to love the lovely woman you are.

 

Then you will be strong enough to put up boundaries and treat yourself with the respect you deserve. You will be no longer be tempted to get involved in toxic relationships.

 

Poppy.

[FusionCutter]

If you have to ask why I wonder about the state of his happiness then you have missed the entirety of this situation.

 

At what point will you realize it just isn't worth it? Another 10 years? When you're 60 years old and still alone and all his kids have left the house? I'm going to extremes. But at some point in time you gotta let it go. People have been saying this to you since 2008. I mean. The content you provide is great to read, entertaining even, but honestly, in the end, you're only just hurting yourself. No one else on this board gets hurt - just you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

KG

 

Why oh why do you feel it is a COMPLIMENT that his OOW weren't as good as an OW as you were?

 

He basically said.....you are the best OW ever...the way you accept me staying with my wife, give me a soft shoulder so I can crow how selfless of a Father I am, the way you always agree with me, the way you wait for me. Those OOW, didn't give me the full attention that I know I deserve from an OW. They just didn't understand their ROLE in my life like you do.

 

Ten years, you point to that as something special as well. Yup, in ten years he still couldn't find an OOW that would accept their role like you did.Ten years later, he is still offering what he always did. Ten years later he still views you as OW material.

 

Didn't contact you because he wants a friendship not sex...come on. Listen to what he wanted to share with his "friend". How the sex was with the OOW, how the sex is with his wife, how great sex was with you. Oh, no....he isn't looking to hook up for sex after NC in 3 years and you just happen to be in town. Nope....his motives are pure as the driven snow. Do people talk that extensively about their sex life with opposite sex "friends"... Or does one share that info with someone they want to solve their sex problems with?

 

One kid, I can't leave my wife/child. Two kids can't leave now...I have a wife/children. Three kids can't leave now either. Four kids, I'm not leaving them...want to hook up for a bit.

 

OMFG...the man isn't even creative enough to give different excuses...it worked so well the first time he kept on using it for TEN FREAKING YEARS. Actually, I don't know if it's a lack of creativity or laziness. You need to absorb this..he kept adding kids (excuses), while stating if the first excuse (kid) didn't exist he would soooo be with you. Wouldn't someone who wanted to leave be minimizing any reasons to stay....not procreating their own daycare centre?

 

KG....all of that ^ doesn't have to say anything about you if you don't want it to. Tell this man to **** off....like yesterday.

 

Why are not outraged at his transparent attempt to get you to wear the OW hat again?

 

Stop defending this man....start defending YOURSELF.

[xxoo]

Kismet,

Don't look for a man to fulfill your dreams. Find yourself first and learn to love the lovely woman you are.

 

Then you will be strong enough to put up boundaries and treat yourself with the respect you deserve. You will be no longer be tempted to get involved in toxic relationships.

 

Poppy.

 

Here is the best advice. Well said, poppy.

 

Your focus on his happiness reflects your own dependence on a romance for happiness. It's a weakness both of you share. The solution and the path for peace, for both of you, comes from within.

 

If you achieve that peace, you'd have no patience for his mistreatment and excuses. Contentment and gratitude are the antidote.

[FitChick]

He sounds like a man who always needs two women in his life because he cannot commit to one and be intimate with only one. If you don't mind three being a crowd, stay with him. As Princess Diana famously said, "There are three people in this marriage."