After three years of NC, MM has contacted me again.

[bathtub-row]

But we are getting our info on MM from KismetGirl, correct? Reading her backstory gives insight into his character.

 

Right. But I'm not talking about that. I just get tired of hearing about how someone is automatically a lousy person because they cheat in their marriage. Cheating isn't smartest option but not everyone who cheats is a complete jerk. So, just basing it on the fact that he's married and cheats is not good enough. Basing it on other things -- yeah, I get that.

[Hope Shimmers]

Right. But I'm not talking about that. I just get tired of hearing about how someone is automatically a lousy person because they cheat in their marriage. Cheating isn't smartest option but not everyone who cheats is a complete jerk. So, just basing it on the fact that he's married and cheats is not good enough. Basing it on other things -- yeah, I get that.

 

I agree that not everyone who cheats is a complete jerk, but that doesn't make it the right choice.

 

I was married a few years shy of 20 years to a man who was extremely emotionally/mentally abusive (to the point where his employers even made him take anger management classes). It was horrible, and it escalated to physical abuse and rape towards the end. Yet I didn't cheat ... I divorced him.

[bathtub-row]

I agree that not everyone who cheats is a complete jerk, but that doesn't make it the right choice.

 

I was married a few years shy of 20 years to a man who was extremely emotionally/mentally abusive (to the point where his employers even made him take anger management classes). It was horrible, and it escalated to physical abuse and rape towards the end. Yet I didn't cheat ... I divorced him.

 

I get it and that's what I would do, too. But that doesn't mean that the choices that you and I would make are the right ones for everyone else in the world. Lots of people feel trapped, for whatever reason. Again, I'm not saying that cheating is smart or right. I'm just saying that judging someone based only on that seems somewhat narrow-minded.

[Hope Shimmers]

I get it and that's what I would do, too. But that doesn't mean that the choices that you and I would make are the right ones for everyone else in the world. Lots of people feel trapped, for whatever reason. Again, I'm not saying that cheating is smart or right. I'm just saying that judging someone based only on that seems somewhat narrow-minded.

 

Judging anyone is not right. It happens a lot here though, where people ask for advice and it seems that is the natural result.

 

If there ever exists evidence that people who have affairs end up better off or their spouses or AP's or kids or whoever end up better off for that decision (even if that's the minority situation), then I will agree with you that cheating may be someone's way of dealing with a situation in a justifiable way, aside from moralities, such that it should get the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I'm on the side of saying that it's rarely if ever a good thing. Hopefully that's not narrow-minded. Just the facts, folks.

[KismetGirl]

I did go back and re read some of your older threads. One thing that really stood out was, how many times this man has re inserted himself into your life as you've tried to end it and walk away.

 

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I know you can't see him like that, your heart and emotions won't allow you to, but from an objective outsider who genuinely has your best interest at heart here, Kismet, I'm telling you, he's playing you like a fiddle. The smile is there, a look in his eyes but the knife is hidden. He's not being malicious, he's being bloody selfish and manipulative.

 

In a year from now, hopefully NC will be in place once again, you might look back and have an eureka moment and see what everybody else sees and is telling you about him.

 

WWIU

 

I wish I could hug you-- its strange you've "known" me for so long at this point and i genuinly feel a kindness from you and a concern, and believe it or not that means a lot to me. You have always been supportive and never cruel even when you disagreed with me and that means a lot.

 

I think a lot of the time I do see what you mean. I see how selfish and cruel he can be, even though I don't think his intent is to be malicious.

 

As days go I get more and more sick of him and his behaviour. I think being still in love with him makes it hard to totally tell him to go away sometimes. I get moments of strength when I say "why do i even bother, what do i get out of this?". I have imaginary conversations in my head where I yell at him, tell him he doesnt care about anyone but himself. Sometimes I wonder if it woudl have been better that I'd never met him at all. I try to imagine that every situation has its purpose, to learn from it.

 

I'm a smart girl. Smarter than many on here might give me credit for. My actions occasionally preclude what I intrinsically know to be true about situations. I often ignore my inherent perception of a situation. I am good at reading people-- if I wasn't I would have failed at my job long ago. But we all know that having a 160 IQ and being perceptive doesnt negate the fact that I am human and often purposefully do what is not in my best interest to satiate a temperamental emotional need.

 

I look back and see that my posts have often garnered far more views and responses, on average, than many others. Perhaps it is my writing style people like ;-) Perhaps, as someone said earlier, I am entertaining. I'll take it as a compliment of sorts. I like to debate, I like to play devil's advocate, and frankly I can be stubborn when I feel that people are not totally understanding what I'm trying to say.

 

But I do take advice to heart on here. It has been a place of support, a place to vent and feel like I am not alone. I have friends and family of course but sometimes you just can't/don't want to talk about certain things with people in front of you and it's easier this way.

 

Over the years I've been saddened so many times by him. Those moments where he is kind and attentive just wash out all logic I have at that very moment. But then I am reminded so often about how , despite how I genuinly believe he would have wanted to date me had we met when we were single, he has always utterly taken me for granted. My life with him has always been about me accomodating HIM. I altered my work schedule to make time for him, I endured holidays and birthdays without a partner, I endured 40 minute quick meetings where we'd have sex and then he'd go home to his wife. In ten years I've never had a real overnight with him. The most we've had is he'd slept at my house a couple of hours once or twice when he happened to be able to get away for half a day, but I've never woken up next to him in the morning. Going to his children's soccer games will always be more important than making plans with me.

 

I have and always will be a secondary item in his life. Something he can squeeze in. I'll never be a priority. I remember when we recconnected and he begged me to please let him make it up to me, all those years of "quickie" meetings and guilt-laden break ups. he said "let me show you i can appreciate you". He said he would still be constricted at times on how often he could see me but he thought that he could show me a better effort, a more quality engagement. That our time together, even though occasionally constrained, woudl mean more. It insulted me that he thought seeing me for 4 hours, once a week, meant "improved effort". As if I were some silly teenaged girl where i should be excited that someone took me out to dinner.

 

It makes me angry that he thinks that throwing a few hours my way and taking me out to eat somehow meant "improved quality" of our time together. Sure, it was better than 45 minute quickies where all we did was have sex before he had to run home but it wasn't satisfying. I'm a grown woman who has been in plenty of real relationships, where men spent the whole night with me, woke up with me in the morning, met my friends and family, didn't hide me.

 

My problem is that I took it. Because it was all I could get from him, I took it, and I don't know why sometimes. Love is not enough. It wasn't making me happy overall. It was like a drug whereby in the moment I was with him it felt good to be touched by him, to have him hold my hands, kiss my hands, look at me with adoration , but I will never, ever feel good in the over-arching sense when someone I care about, at the end of the day, goes home and sleeps next to someone else.

 

i get so angry thinking about how little respect I've shown myself when it comes to him and yet I keep doing it. This guy I'm talking to back home, he's dating other girls and I've had no problem telling him if he wants me then he needs to make decisions. That I refuse to sleep with him if he's even dating other people. That he needs to take a chance on me if he thinks Im worth it. And he actually might have potential, but I have no problem making ultimatums and I dont get scared of "losing" him if I do.

 

With MM there isn't even any potential. There's nothing there for me and yet for ten years I've held back on my feelings, my wants, my needs and desires out of some strange inherent fear that I would "lose" him? I don't even know how to describe it.

 

I'm rambling and feeling emotional right now, and totally have gone off track. Don't even know what I intended to talk about when i started this anymore! lol. Ive gotten lost in yet another soliloquy.

[KismetGirl]

It mattered to you KG and thats the saddest part as I believe he has used you as an extra to his married life.

 

I also believe that you deserve better (his wife too) and I really hope that when you move that you will start a new life and realise that there is better out there for you.

 

I think his wife deserves better also. TO be honest I don't think she realises the extent to which he has become so jaded about her. When I met him he truly did exhibit guilt about his actions, as I said...his guilt was one reason he broke up with me quite frequently. I think he hid things from her then not just to avoid getting in trouble but because he didnt want to hurt her.

 

These days his guilt seems to be gone. His wife, I think, believes he is truly trying to work on their marriage. I think she really thinks maybe this baby is a step in the healing process, that he's changing his ways.

 

I don't want to do this out of spite but lately moreso than I ever did before I wish I could tell her who she is really married to. Surely if I was in her position I would want to know. I know realistically I will not tell her anything but I think about it a lot more these days than I used to.

 

I think before i was scared that if i told her anything i would lose him because he'd be angry, but maybe it would hae been best for everyone if things were out in the open. I dont know. Surely the BS's out there reading this, you would want to know what was going on if you were her? Even pregnant with their fourth child, surely she'd want to know.

[KismetGirl]

This is not true.

You stepped out of his life for THREE!!! years. NC/Silence tells him you expect more than an affair. He didn't choose you. He didn't come after you. Instead he chose MC with his wife to make their life better.. and now they're having their FOURTH child.

 

 

Lose this hope. It's detrimental to realizing your own dreams and goals.

 

I stepped out because I thought he asked me to (it was his wife that asked me to, actually).

 

HE then tracked me down, so yes, he did come after me.

 

His way of making their life "better" was to go to MC and then come to the personal conclusion he will never be in love with his wife, get her pregnant again anyway, and then spend a year asking my old friends and co workers how to find me. He finally stumbled onto a way to contact me a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago, whatever, and contacted me saying he's so sorry, please come back into his life, he's not happy.

 

I guess that sounds like the actions of a man who's committed to making his marriage work, huh.

[KismetGirl]

You started this thread on Nov 5. Almost 3 weeks ago...saying you were leaving in 2 months...yet you continue to say you are leaving in 2 months...when it would be more like 5-6 weeks. You are very exact in the # of days since you last saw him so I wonder if you are really leaving in "2 months" or if you are changing your mind and are planning to stay longer.

 

On Nov. 5th I was planning on leaving in about 9 weeks, if we're being more precise. As of now it's about 8 weeks, maybe more like 7. I'm suppose to leave mid-January. I don't have an exact date yet but I have to be back in my other home before February starts, so apologies on the confusion about precise dates. Exact flight out has as yet to be sorted for technical/work reasons but I'm out of here by the third week of January at the latest. I can't delay it further than that at all whether i want to or not.

[KismetGirl]

Hey Kismet,

 

Please try and remember the devastation that you felt only a few days ago when he told you, AFTER getting in contact, that his wife is pregnant again.

 

I think, at the time, you correctly saw him for the rat-bastard that he is.

 

But, having read through all your threads in the last two days (procrastination is a wonderful thing) the pattern is that you eventually find a way to rationalize his horrible, morally bankrupt, unbelievably selfish actions. It is, literally, incredible to watch how you defend his behaviour (they had sex b/c they were in therapy; he got together with OW after you but he's not a serial cheater; it's you, not his wife, who he really loves.)

 

While I am not surprised, I find it unutterably sad that you would continue to be in touch with him. Every. Frigging. Day.

 

Wow.

 

You and me both. I get more angry lately as days go. Maybe it's a good progression. I didn't talk to him the last day or two because I just felt so angered by his pathetic behavior.

[Leda]

I think his wife deserves better also. TO be honest I don't think she realises the extent to which he has become so jaded about her. When I met him he truly did exhibit guilt about his actions, as I said...his guilt was one reason he broke up with me quite frequently. I think he hid things from her then not just to avoid getting in trouble but because he didnt want to hurt her.

 

These days his guilt seems to be gone. His wife, I think, believes he is truly trying to work on their marriage. I think she really thinks maybe this baby is a step in the healing process, that he's changing his ways.

 

I don't want to do this out of spite but lately moreso than I ever did before I wish I could tell her who she is really married to. Surely if I was in her position I would want to know. I know realistically I will not tell her anything but I think about it a lot more these days than I used to.

 

I think before i was scared that if i told her anything i would lose him because he'd be angry, but maybe it would hae been best for everyone if things were out in the open. I dont know. Surely the BS's out there reading this, you would want to know what was going on if you were her? Even pregnant with their fourth child, surely she'd want to know.

 

My partner and I have a small child together and I would DEFINITELY want to know. Reading through your threads, i've felt so sad for his wife. It's one thing to seek you out over the years for emotional and sexual fulfillment and lie to her about it, but some of the things he's shared with you over the years about her insecurities are such a poisonous, direct, HUMILIATING betrayal of her. (Example: showing you the kind of texts she sends when he's late getting home.). I can't believe they're in mc and he's STILL going behind her back with you and other women. The fact that she knows about you, enough to be upset about you and to have written you a cease and desist note from his email, makes it especially humiliating for her that he's meeting up with you and discussing things that are personal in their marriage. I'm not a BS, but I have been lied to and it's really awful, very destabilizing. The fact that he's lied to her face for years had probably really harmed her as a person. I cried when I read your post where he told her he was stuck at the office (after there was a disaster in your neighborhood or something) and he was really sleeping at your place. I pictured her sitting there exhausted with her then-three children, waiting for him to come home.

 

I would want to know the full truth. No editorializing about his feelings, and low on sexual or romantic details that would hurt...but the facts: times, dates, what he lied about.

 

I think if people go to mc, but one or both of them

keep lying and cheating, the mc can't really help.

[Hope Shimmers]

WWIU

 

 

I'm a smart girl. Smarter than many on here might give me credit for. My actions occasionally preclude what I intrinsically know to be true about situations. I often ignore my inherent perception of a situation. I am good at reading people-- if I wasn't I would have failed at my job long ago. But we all know that having a 160 IQ and being perceptive doesnt negate the fact that I am human and often purposefully do what is not in my best interest to satiate a temperamental emotional need.

 

Wow. You have a documented IQ of 160? That is so extremely rare! Are you/were you full scholarship for college? And for your job as well! Are you in MENSA?

 

My tested IQ is 155. I am a member of MENSA (not sure why). But I'm dumb in a lot of areas.

 

I don't know what my oldest son's IQ is but he is infinitely smarter than me. He's 20, and on a scholarship to MIT and in the top 5 of his class. He scored a perfect 34 on the ACT and 2400 on the SAT. My other son, who is 18, is very smart too (33 on ACT) but is struggling with motivation. He will get there.

 

If you have a documented IQ of 160, then the world is your oyster. Lose ex-MM who doesn't even deserve to kiss your shoes.

[FusionCutter]

Wow. You have a documented IQ of 160? That is so extremely rare! Are you/were you full scholarship for college? And for your job as well! Are you in MENSA?

 

My tested IQ is 155. I am a member of MENSA (not sure why). But I'm dumb in a lot of areas.

 

I don't know what my oldest son's IQ is but he is infinitely smarter than me. He's 20, and on a scholarship to MIT and in the top 5 of his class. He scored a perfect 34 on the ACT and 2400 on the SAT. My other son, who is 18, is very smart too (33 on ACT) but is struggling with motivation. He will get there.

 

If you have a documented IQ of 160, then the world is your oyster. Lose ex-MM who doesn't even deserve to kiss your shoes.

 

How is IQ relevant in this situation? IQ is not a precursor to relationship success - EQ is.

[Hope Shimmers]

How is IQ relevant in this situation? IQ is not a precursor to relationship success - EQ is.

 

Yes, it's off topic, somewhat. I was commenting on one of her posts. But it does not strike me as totally off topic in this situation, because she brings it in. Sorry if I offended you.

[FusionCutter]

Yes, it's off topic, somewhat. I was commenting on one of her posts. But it does not strike me as totally off topic in this situation, because she brings it in. Sorry if I offended you.

 

No, not offended at all. I meant like IQ isn't a definition of getting involved in an affair or whatever. My point was IQ doesn't factor in when dealing with the nuances of an affair, since it's so highly emotional. FWIW, I have an IQ of 155 but that didn't stop me from making some terrible decisions.

[KismetGirl]

Wow. You have a documented IQ of 160? That is so extremely rare! Are you/were you full scholarship for college? And for your job as well! Are you in MENSA?

 

My tested IQ is 155. I am a member of MENSA (not sure why). But I'm dumb in a lot of areas.

 

I don't know what my oldest son's IQ is but he is infinitely smarter than me. He's 20, and on a scholarship to MIT and in the top 5 of his class. He scored a perfect 34 on the ACT and 2400 on the SAT. My other son, who is 18, is very smart too (33 on ACT) but is struggling with motivation. He will get there.

 

If you have a documented IQ of 160, then the world is your oyster. Lose ex-MM who doesn't even deserve to kiss your shoes.

 

Hey

 

Yes it is documented....IQ tests are often inaccurate, but I've scored between 155-160 on all the ones I've taken. I am in MENSA, not that that means anything....I took the exam for that out of sheer fun. There are different kind of smarts. A person's EQ has just as much, if not more, impact on their success in life as their IQ. And to be frank motivation matters ....most of the very successful people I know are of average intelligence but are very Type A and just get things done. I'd say overall I tend to be more shy , despite my initially outgoing demeanor. High intelligence is often a hindrance. Over thinking has often been a problem for me. I think in many ways it's difficult for me to find suitable relationships because finding equality and someone who understands me on varying levels is rare. I don't need someone who makes more than me but i do want someone on a relatively equivalent cerebral level, and who is successful in the realm of where I am. No more, no less, just equal. Men are often intimidated by what I do for a living, and if they aren't, I find it difficult to truly equate myself intrinsically with them so that I feel we are really melding. I've often settled in relationships where I don't think they really understand me because it's difficult to find people who are on a level. Perhaps this is why when I have, albeit rarely, found someone I feel like I have a mental/emotional and physical connection with it is difficult to pull away even if they are otherwise toxic (ergo....MM).

 

I think being smart and having a high IQ are two different things. High IQ also has little to do with being successful or making good decisions. I suppose it simply means you have a potential that is not common. A lot of other factors realistically take hold when it comes to how you play out in life.

 

Motivation is a big issue :-) I find the smarter people are the harder it is, sometimes, to move forward with life because you get just...stuck, thinking about everything from every angle. Trapped in your own mind, if you will.

 

Anyway it's neither here nor there.

 

I am an intelligent person, I have a lot of potential, I consider myself successful in many ways, I have a fun and easygoing personality that people seem to respond to but romantically I often feel very lonely and incompatible with reality. Whether this is anything to do with my intellect is debatable. At the end of the day I just want a good connection with someone, and it is sincerely difficult to find.

 

He doesn't deserve me, he doesn't even deserve his wife. And yet he has both quite often. So who is really the smart one I wonder sometimes.

[Hope Shimmers]

No, not offended at all. I meant like IQ isn't a definition of getting involved in an affair or whatever. My point was IQ doesn't factor in when dealing with the nuances of an affair, since it's so highly emotional. FWIW, I have an IQ of 155 but that didn't stop me from making some terrible decisions.

 

I could not agree with you more. I made the world's worst decisions despite supposedly being smart.

 

I brought forth the issue based on the posts from the OP I read tonight, and the comments about how we all seem to love her posts more than others comparatively.

[KismetGirl]

My partner and I have a small child together and I would DEFINITELY want to know. Reading through your threads, i've felt so sad for his wife. It's one thing to seek you out over the years for emotional and sexual fulfillment and lie to her about it, but some of the things he's shared with you over the years about her insecurities are such a poisonous, direct, HUMILIATING betrayal of her. (Example: showing you the kind of texts she sends when he's late getting home.). I can't believe they're in mc and he's STILL going behind her back with you and other women. The fact that she knows about you, enough to be upset about you and to have written you a cease and desist note from his email, makes it especially humiliating for her that he's meeting up with you and discussing things that are personal in their marriage. I'm not a BS, but I have been lied to and it's really awful, very destabilizing. The fact that he's lied to her face for years had probably really harmed her as a person. I cried when I read your post where he told her he was stuck at the office (after there was a disaster in your neighborhood or something) and he was really sleeping at your place. I pictured her sitting there exhausted with her then-three children, waiting for him to come home.

 

I would want to know the full truth. No editorializing about his feelings, and low on sexual or romantic details that would hurt...but the facts: times, dates, what he lied about.

 

I think if people go to mc, but one or both of them

keep lying and cheating, the mc can't really help.

 

I often think about telling her. I used to think it wouldnt help, only to hurt her further. But lately as it becomes more apparent he will never change, and I wonder if that's the truth. Obviously she is making an extreme effort to save their marriage....going to counseling, MC together, for years. Having another baby. Finding out over and over and over that he has contact and been with me and yet she stays. I imagine at this point she believes he's trying to work on it too. But he's not, obviously. He's moving further and further away from "working" on it, to really just placating her and still deciding he'll do what he wants, only now he seems to have less guilt than he ever did before. I am often tempted to tell her but Im just not sure its worth it.

[Hope Shimmers]

He doesn't deserve me, he doesn't even deserve his wife. And yet he has both quite often. So who is really the smart one I wonder sometimes.

 

Right there with you on that. Which is why I ended up getting him out of my life.

[FusionCutter]

I often think about telling her. I used to think it wouldnt help, only to hurt her further. But lately as it becomes more apparent he will never change, and I wonder if that's the truth. Obviously she is making an extreme effort to save their marriage....going to counseling, MC together, for years. Having another baby. Finding out over and over and over that he has contact and been with me and yet she stays. I imagine at this point she believes he's trying to work on it too. But he's not, obviously. He's moving further and further away from "working" on it, to really just placating her and still deciding he'll do what he wants, only now he seems to have less guilt than he ever did before. I am often tempted to tell her but Im just not sure its worth it.

 

Maybe one day you will see the entire situation is not worth it at all. I mean, 3 years of NC and you're going on in this thread like it was 2008 all over again. It sucks to see you out of touch with reality. I honestly thing your mind's obsession with this situation is really hindering your ability to find an honest relationship. Do you ever think perhaps it's why you can't connect with anyone - because you can't let this affair go? I mean, every word you write defending him is almost like a continuation of it or a justification to keep it alive. Alive and crazy in your mind. Meanwhile he sleeps at home soundly next to his wife. I'm not being hostile, just trying to see this from an objective perspective. But honestly if you're happy, then it's all good. I kind of see it that you're beyond numb. You kinda just keep hurting yourself. And your threads get a lot of attention because it's entertaining, like a trainwreck that is hard to look away from.

 

I think everyone just wants you to care for yourself and be able to find a happy relationship one day.. but you cannot do that if you're still keeping him alive in your mind while you are writing soliloquies on here. This guy needs to be dead to you, or you will kind of be a candidate for the longest serving OW. Perhaps even for the rest of your life, if you can't let this dude go.

Edited November 24, 2014 by FusionCutter

[AlwaysGrowing]

I could not agree with you more. I made the world's worst decisions despite supposedly being smart.

 

I brought forth the issue based on the posts from the OP I read tonight, and the comments about how we all seem to love her posts more than others comparatively.

 

 

You are going to have to show up with more than your last IQ test score to get in my zombie shelter.

 

I will take handy over a 160 IQ any day of the week.

 

Smart people can be the laziest asshats you ever met. There are times you have to be able to do more than stroke keys on a keyboard.

 

Oh and FYI...I always enjoyed your threads as well HS.

 

Oh and KG....stop trying to use your smarts to figure this guy out. Use your handy side and toss him.

[whichwayisup]

WWIU

 

I wish I could hug you-- its strange you've "known" me for so long at this point and i genuinly feel a kindness from you and a concern, and believe it or not that means a lot to me. You have always been supportive and never cruel even when you disagreed with me and that means a lot.

Hugs to you too, thanks for the compliment. There are a handful of posters and their situations who stand out, and you're one of them.

 

You'll get through this, once you move and get busy it'll be easier to push him out of your life. He's got to go, he serves no purpose in your life, he'll hold you back from finding a deep love with someone else if you stay pen pals. You got to make yourself NOT care about him. Wish him well, forgive him (for your own inner peace) for being a selfish dink.

 

I think a lot of the time I do see what you mean. I see how selfish and cruel he can be, even though I don't think his intent is to be malicious.

Exactly, he's manipulative and feels entitled, it's not like he has a grand plan in the works, he'll just go where the wind blows without thinking what damage it'll cause to his wife or to you. He truly only cares about himself.

 

As days go I get more and more sick of him and his behaviour. I think being still in love with him makes it hard to totally tell him to go away sometimes. I get moments of strength when I say "why do i even bother, what do i get out of this?". I have imaginary conversations in my head where I yell at him, tell him he doesnt care about anyone but himself. Sometimes I wonder if it woudl have been better that I'd never met him at all. I try to imagine that every situation has its purpose, to learn from it.

 

GOOD, use that anger to distance and detach from him. Silence says a lot more than words. Really anything you say, he'll try to manipulate you, make you feel guilty yet he'll do it with a smile on his face and hide the knife.

 

I'm a smart girl. Smarter than many on here might give me credit for. My actions occasionally preclude what I intrinsically know to be true about situations. I often ignore my inherent perception of a situation. I am good at reading people-- if I wasn't I would have failed at my job long ago. But we all know that having a 160 IQ and being perceptive doesnt negate the fact that I am human and often purposefully do what is not in my best interest to satiate a temperamental emotional need.

 

High IQ or not, people make dumb choices and mistakes. It's easier to give advice than to take it, it's easier to see someone else's situation quite clearly and be objective yet when it comes to our own lives it's not the same and not so easy.

I look back and see that my posts have often garnered far more views and responses, on average, than many others. Perhaps it is my writing style people like ;-) Perhaps, as someone said earlier, I am entertaining. I'll take it as a compliment of sorts. I like to debate, I like to play devil's advocate, and frankly I can be stubborn when I feel that people are not totally understanding what I'm trying to say.

You articulate yourself well through your writing!

But I do take advice to heart on here. It has been a place of support, a place to vent and feel like I am not alone. I have friends and family of course but sometimes you just can't/don't want to talk about certain things with people in front of you and it's easier this way.

 

That's why LS was built!

 

Over the years I've been saddened so many times by him. Those moments where he is kind and attentive just wash out all logic I have at that very moment. But then I am reminded so often about how , despite how I genuinly believe he would have wanted to date me had we met when we were single, he has always utterly taken me for granted. My life with him has always been about me accomodating HIM. I altered my work schedule to make time for him, I endured holidays and birthdays without a partner, I endured 40 minute quick meetings where we'd have sex and then he'd go home to his wife. In ten years I've never had a real overnight with him. The most we've had is he'd slept at my house a couple of hours once or twice when he happened to be able to get away for half a day, but I've never woken up next to him in the morning. Going to his children's soccer games will always be more important than making plans with me.

 

He's always going to let you down. Fact. He gave you bits and pieces of him, made you feel crappy, you accepted crumbs and he continued giving you crumbs. You deserve so much more than that!

 

With that said, do NOT let him ruin your future! You WILL find a great guy when the timing is right. When the moon, sun and stars align properly, thag great guy will be waiting for you.

 

I have and always will be a secondary item in his life. Something he can squeeze in. I'll never be a priority. I remember when we recconnected and he begged me to please let him make it up to me, all those years of "quickie" meetings and guilt-laden break ups. he said "let me show you i can appreciate you". He said he would still be constricted at times on how often he could see me but he thought that he could show me a better effort, a more quality engagement. That our time together, even though occasionally constrained, woudl mean more. It insulted me that he thought seeing me for 4 hours, once a week, meant "improved effort". As if I were some silly teenaged girl where i should be excited that someone took me out to dinner.

See above and I'll add but that is the dynamic of an affair, stolen moments, when the married person can make time for their AP. Some are OK with it, some aren't and eventually most wake up and say F-U, I'm done and walk away.

 

It makes me angry that he thinks that throwing a few hours my way and taking me out to eat somehow meant "improved quality" of our time together. Sure, it was better than 45 minute quickies where all we did was have sex before he had to run home but it wasn't satisfying. I'm a grown woman who has been in plenty of real relationships, where men spent the whole night with me, woke up with me in the morning, met my friends and family, didn't hide me.

 

Don't ever put yourself in a situation like that again. Painful lesson learned, either you get ALL of the person or none. No in between.

 

My problem is that I took it. Because it was all I could get from him, I took it, and I don't know why sometimes. Love is not enough. It wasn't making me happy overall. It was like a drug whereby in the moment I was with him it felt good to be touched by him, to have him hold my hands, kiss my hands, look at me with adoration , but I will never, ever feel good in the over-arching sense when someone I care about, at the end of the day, goes home and sleeps next to someone else.

 

Because it was an affair, people get what they can out of it, regardless of the bad feelings, they focus on the good times and make those better times rule over the bad and yucky alone times, made it worth for you.

 

i get so angry thinking about how little respect I've shown myself when it comes to him and yet I keep doing it. This guy I'm talking to back home, he's dating other girls and I've had no problem telling him if he wants me then he needs to make decisions. That I refuse to sleep with him if he's even dating other people. That he needs to take a chance on me if he thinks Im worth it. And he actually might have potential, but I have no problem making ultimatums and I dont get scared of "losing" him if I do.

 

Let that play out with the LD guy when you move. You are strong and know what you want out of a relationship, if he doesn't meet your standards, lose him.

 

With MM there isn't even any potential. There's nothing there for me and yet for ten years I've held back on my feelings, my wants, my needs and desires out of some strange inherent fear that I would "lose" him? I don't even know how to describe it.

 

Ego. Really think about that. Habit too. You're so used to (ex)MM, he's like a safety net. Time to break out of that net and rip it up! You really are better off without him.

I'm rambling and feeling emotional right now, and totally have gone off track. Don't even know what I intended to talk about when i started this anymore! lol. Ive gotten lost in yet another soliloquy.

 

Keep venting, if it helps push you in the direction of totally ending it with (ex)MM, that's a good thing.

[whichwayisup]

I often think about telling her. I used to think it wouldnt help, only to hurt her further. But lately as it becomes more apparent he will never change, and I wonder if that's the truth. Obviously she is making an extreme effort to save their marriage....going to counseling, MC together, for years. Having another baby. Finding out over and over and over that he has contact and been with me and yet she stays. I imagine at this point she believes he's trying to work on it too. But he's not, obviously. He's moving further and further away from "working" on it, to really just placating her and still deciding he'll do what he wants, only now he seems to have less guilt than he ever did before. I am often tempted to tell her but Im just not sure its worth it.

 

If you ever do plan on telling her, at least wait until their baby is born. It's just cruel to do now. God forbid something happened due to emotional stress.....

 

Though at this point in time since you're moving, I advise on not telling. If he continues on the cheating path with other OW in the future, it'll eventually blow up in his face and he'll lose out on what he fears most...Not seeing and being with his kids daily. Kind of stupid eh.

[whichwayisup]

You and me both. I get more angry lately as days go. Maybe it's a good progression. I didn't talk to him the last day or two because I just felt so angered by his pathetic behavior.

 

When he contacts you again, why take control back and just tell him that you're extremely busy packing and getting ready to move and it would be best for both of you to cut contact completely. Then wish him well, say your goodbyes (don't see him again) and really make yourself stop thinking about him. A pain like that will hurt but it'll be final. No more invasion into your life, no more manipulation and drama, no more being pulled in by him all to have him play more cat and mouse games. So pointless and life is too short to get sucked into that all over again.

[xxoo]

He doesn't deserve me, he doesn't even deserve his wife. And yet he has both quite often.

 

That is solid clarity. Hold onto that.

 

You definitely should want better for yourself than a life tied to this man and his issues. At peace and alone is a better option than a life with this man.

[Poppy47]

Whose MM is a psychopath?

 

How can you not know? Well, when someone lies to your face for 6 years then I think that would be a pretty good reason why she didn't know.

 

Whether or not he is a convincing liar isn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that you cannot know someone in the same way that you do after you have lived with them for a period of years, shared day-to-day life, raising of families, etc with them. You can THINK you know someone that well, but you don't.

 

You can know somebody a whole life time and still not really know them.

If you trust your partner unconditionally, it makes it very easy for them to cheat and manipulate your trust to their advantage.

 

Poppy.