Racial Discrimination or Personal Preference?

[Topaze]

Yes Craig, I agree There are many reasons why people may rule out those of another race. The physical features of a particular race argument does not really hold water. There are short and tall people in every race. There are also a wide variety of facial features...Tyra Banks doesn't look like Naomi Campbell and Angela Bassett doesn't look like Halle Berry. That's why this whole argument is so ludicrous.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Topaze

The physical features of a particular race argument does not really hold water. There are short and tall people in every race.

 

Yeah, but you don't find many white people who are black. Well, aside from Michael Jackson, of course.

[Proto]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

I am NOT racist, nor do I prejudge people. But I'll tell you this, while I am attracted to and will date white men, hispanic men, and black men....

 

 

Yeah, that's right!

 

 

 

Anyways, when I was single and I was checking out personals pages, if there was a woman who stated that her racial preferences were not black men, then I'd just skip right over and go to the next! Why the hell would I care about some women who don't prefer black men when there are TONS AND TONS of others that do?? I guess I don't have insecurities and care about what other people think. My white girlfriend/future wife sure as hell doesn't have a problem with black men!

[Topaze]

No one has said that people should not date women who are not Black. Quite the opposite...I am suggesting that race should not be a consideration PERIOD when deciding who to date.

 

Proto, you are fortunate that you found tons and tons of women willing to date Black men on the dating site. I hope that your memory is not so short as to realize that even 10 - 15 years ago, there were relatively few White women willing to date Black men. You don't have to go all that far back to a time when Black men in the US were lynched for showing an interest in White women. In fact, in some US jurisdictions the anti-miscegenation laws were on the books until the 1970s.

 

When you suddenly have tons of options, it is easy to forget the history of your people and to overlook any rejection that you do face. When you go on dating site after dating site and see that very few men select Black or Africa American women as one of their choices, it's not as simple as to overlook these men and move on to the rest. This site is a prime example. Over the course of 2 thread most men have said that they don't find Black women attractive and would not date a Black woman.

 

I am disappointed that you, as a Black man, have so little empathy for what Black women are going through and I hope, for their sake, that you don't end up having any daughters.

[tokyo]

If you think that white men should date more black women, then show them how great you are and what they are missing instead of forcing them to like something that they don't want.

 

I've already said it in your other thread. Race for me is about the physical characteristics of a person, if I don't like those, I will reject the person. Unless you are willing to date someone who weighs 300 pounds with an IQ of 50, but with a good heart, you should hold back with your harsh criticism of people who choose their partners according to their own personal criteria.

[Dino]

You're still going on about this?

 

Originally posted by Topaze

Please read ALL the definitions....the key here is that people are being treated differently because of their RACE..... However, I will challenge you on the superiority thing too. Clearly there is an evaluation going on here when people are saying that Black women, Asian men etc. aren't attractive....they are IN essences showing a preference based on RACE that makes it clear that they find White people more attractive....better....superior...

 

It is fascinating to watch people try to justify their own prejudices...absolutely fascinating. I am just going to listen for a while and see what other excuses people will use.

 

Wow. I'm almost speechless. I'm not sure how you were able to wander into that world of yours, but you might want to try and find your way back. You are going to find yourself alone and lonely for quite a while if you can't accept the fact that different people are attracted to different things, including race. That's not discrimination at all. You've been constantly making arguments about how everyone is going off-topic, but in actuality, no one has yet. The fact that some people list race as one of their factors in choosing who they date is no more significant then choosing only brunettes, or people that are not shorter then they are. It's no different.

 

Get over it. It's not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. Take a deep breath before a major vein bursts in your brain or something.

[Bronzepen]

Topaz, I have a question for you and this might help to clear where your coming from.

 

 

In your own words and view, what is a race? What defines a race?

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Topaze

No one has said that people should not date women who are not Black. Quite the opposite...I am suggesting that race should not be a consideration PERIOD when deciding who to date.

 

Whoa! Are you actually trying to tell everyone how to live their lives and how to choose partners?! Who are you to tell the rest of us how to live? People are attracted to different thing. Period. You can argue with that all you want, but it only makes you look worse in your arguments.

 

Proto, you are fortunate that you found tons and tons of women willing to date Black men on the dating site. I hope that your memory is not so short as to realize that even 10 - 15 years ago, there were relatively few White women willing to date Black men. You don't have to go all that far back to a time when Black men in the US were lynched for showing an interest in White women. In fact, in some US jurisdictions the anti-miscegenation laws were on the books until the 1970s.

And women didn’t used to vote, and there were no child labor laws, and homosexuality was a hanging offense, etc. ad nausem, infinitum. What has that got to do with the topic of the debate – the topic being RACISM or PREFERENCE?

 

You seem totally unable to separate the two. Yes there are racists. Are you going to change them? No. Like everyone else, you have to live in a world where not everyone agrees with you and sometimes life seems to deal a bad hand.

 

When you suddenly have tons of options, it is easy to forget the history of your people and to overlook any rejection that you do face. When you go on dating site after dating site and see that very few men select Black or Africa American women as one of their choices, it's not as simple as to overlook these men and move on to the rest. This site is a prime example. Over the course of 2 thread most men have said that they don't find Black women attractive and would not date a Black woman.

 

I doubt if anyone is forgetting their racial heritage. The one having the problem ‘overlooking’ and ‘moving on’ is you. Try someplace besides an on-line dating service. They only seem to enforce your insecurities.

 

You almost seem to be trying to take a poll on who would and who would not date outside their race. Why? It would seem that you had the answer to that from your on-line dating sites when you mentioned that so many men will list races other than yours to date. Count ‘em up and maybe you’ll have the answer that you want.

 

I am disappointed that you, as a Black man, have so little empathy for what Black women are going through and I hope, for their sake, that you don't end up having any daughters.

Well, that strikes me as a racist statement. YOU are segregating a poster by emphasizing his race. Why should a Black man have more empathy for you than a White man? Are they not individuals? Shouldn’t you look past the color of their skin? Why should any man have empathy for you? Or any woman either?

 

Basically your posts read like this:

 

I am a Black Woman. Everyone should want to date me because I’m a woman, and the color of my skin should not matter. If you don’t want to date me because of the color of my skin, you are a racist and you are in denial. Everything you say I see as an excuse for prejudice. Your opinions are not valid, why can’t you see that unless you embrace dating anyone from any race – no matter if you find them attractive or ugly – you will continue to be a racist. People should NOT date based on attraction, but on math. Sheer numbers is what counts. Date everyone even if you are turned-off by them. That’s the only way to show that you are not racist, and the whole point is not to find a compatible companion, but to show the world that (your version of) racism is evil.

 

 

I wouldn’t date someone who was so hung up on their race (no matter what race, including my own) that they used it as a weapon or excuse or justification or crutch or whatever. That, in my opinion, is an unfavorable personality trait of the individual. And if you are speaking for every Black person in the world, then you are making a whole race of people look like racists. Fortunately, I’m smart enough to know that you only speak for yourself and I would not hold your opinions as reflective of the entire race.

 

What do you find attractive in a man? What features do you like? What turns you OFF? What conditions would a man meet in order to date you? What conditions would a man meet in order for you to refuse a date with him?

 

I wouldn’t date a man who spoke a different language than me. Would that mean I was prejudiced against everyone who spoke his language? Or would you assume that meant I thought I was superior because of my language?

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Topaze

No one has said that people should not date women who are not Black. Quite the opposite...I am suggesting that race should not be a consideration PERIOD when deciding who to date.

 

Ok, serious debate doesn't work. Sarcasm doesn't work. You have absolutely no right to tell anyone else, who they should date, or what attributes they should be considering.

 

If you don't want to take race or appearance into account when choosing whom to date, then more power to you. But who do you think you are to stand on your soapbox and tell anyone else what characteristics they should be evaluating for a partner in their *personal* life?

 

Black people aren't the only ones who get rejected.

 

The sad thing is, you've spent two days now telling us all how wrong we all are and what have you accomplished? Nothing. You've offended a few people by making them feel bad for having personal preferences, and not a single man on that dating site of yours is going to change his racial preferences.

[tokyo]

Would it be better if a man said, I usually find most black women not that attractive. Is this statement better? I mean, is it the broad generalization when someone says he doesn't like black women that bothers you?

[Podna]

This is how I am seeing this thread.

 

Question:

 

People who won’t date a particular race of people are exuding one of the following:

 

A) Racism

B) Personal Preference

 

But you can’t pick B!!!

 

So you have already decided what you think it is and you won’t take any other answer.

So I guess I should keep my mouth shut or be condemned as a racist.

[amerikajin]

When you suddenly have tons of options, it is easy to forget the history of your people and to overlook any rejection that you do face

 

The ugly reality is that in every society, mate selection is a process that either consciously or subconsciously involves discrimination, much of it running along socioeconomic lines. And because the majority of societies on this planet denigrate ethnic minorities, it's probably safe to assume that discrimination runs along racial lines as well.

 

What you experienced is discrimination - perhaps even racism. It's ugly, but the best thing to do is to find someone more accepting of your ethnicity. There are many out there who are.

[Topaze]

Originally posted by amerikajin

When you suddenly have tons of options, it is easy to forget the history of your people and to overlook any rejection that you do face

 

The ugly reality is that in every society, mate selection is a process that either consciously or subconsciously involves discrimination, much of it running along socioeconomic lines. And because the majority of societies on this planet denigrate ethnic minorities, it's probably safe to assume that discrimination runs along racial lines as well.

 

What you experienced is discrimination - perhaps even racism. It's ugly, but the best thing to do is to find someone more accepting of your ethnicity. There are many out there who are.

 

Finally someone who is making sense.

 

Here is a dictionary definition:

 

A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution.

 

In terms of the definition of race...thare are 3 main racial groups on the planet:

 

- African - Black - People of African descent

- Caucasian - White - People of European descent

- Oriental (a term that some find offensive) - People of Asian desent

 

The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean "white" or "European" rather than "belonging to the Caucasian race," a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in anothermany cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

Then there are people of mixed racial heritage.

 

When someone says they don't find Black (or White or Asian) people attracitive and they wouldn't date a person of a particular race....they are saying that SIGHT UNSEEN they are ruling out and not willing to even consider the dating someone based on their race. They are not looking at the INDIVIDUAL and what he or she brings to the table. That my friend is racial discrimination no matter HOW you try to pretty it up.

 

As for me, I want to be assessed, considered, accepted or rejected based on what I, Topaze, the INDIVIDUAL bring to the table not automatically ruled out because the majority of my ancestors happen to come from Africa. Fair consideration is all that anyone can ever ask or expect and that's all that I expect

[alphamale]

- African - Black - People of African descent = NEGROID

- Caucasian - White - People of European descent = CAUCASOID

- Oriental - People of Asian desent = MONGOLOID

[tanbark813]

What about latinas? Don't leave them out, they're sexy.

 

"Ay papi!!"

[tokyo]

Honestly, call it racial discrimination if you want to. If you want to equal this with the same racism that deprived your ancestors of their citizens right like voting, equal treatment in court, at work, etc. than please, do so.

 

If I were you I would wonder why none of the other members of ethnic minorities on this board agrees with you.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Topaze

In terms of the definition of race...thare are 3 main racial groups on the planet:

 

- African - Black - People of African descent

- Caucasian - White - People of European descent

- Oriental (a term that some find offensive) - People of Asian desent

 

Using the word oriental to describe a human being is considered pejorative by some. You know this, even mentioned it, and yet you put it in there anyway.

 

Once hypocrisy sets in, the conversation is pointless. You've invalidated your own arguments.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Topaze

When someone says they don't find Black (or White or Asian) people attracitive and they wouldn't date a person of a particular race....they are saying that SIGHT UNSEEN they are ruling out and not willing to even consider the dating someone based on their race.

Well, you *almost* understand. This is called PREFERENCE. Purple Martians are not a preference of mine, so if I were looking to date I would leave Purple Martians off of my criteria list.

 

They are not looking at the INDIVIDUAL and what he or she brings to the table. That my friend is racial discrimination no matter HOW you try to pretty it up.

Nope, you are backsliding here, and you almost understood. You are tieing preference and racism together again. Pre-judging the character of a group of people based on thier race is discrimination -- racial discrimination. Not wanting to date someone of a particular race because one doesn't find the features normally associated with that race attractive is called preference and has absolutly nothing whatsoever to do with racism.

 

As for me, I want to be assessed, considered, accepted or rejected based on what I, Topaze, the INDIVIDUAL bring to the table not automatically ruled out because the majority of my ancestors happen to come from Africa. Fair consideration is all that anyone can ever ask or expect and that's all that I expect

That is all any of us want -- to be accepted based on our own merit. But if someone doesn't want to date me because I'm white and they don't find white skin appealing - it does NOT make them a racist!

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Topaze

No one has said that people should not date women who are not Black. Quite the opposite...I am suggesting that race should not be a consideration PERIOD when deciding who to date.

 

I can't believe we are still talking about this.

 

Anyway...ok, Topaze - if you think that race should not be a consideration PERIOD when deciding who to date, would it be okay with you if someone couched their requirements not based on race but certain characteristics that just so happen to only belong to one race or another?? For example, someone saying "I will not date anyone who is NOT blonde because I am simply not attracted to dark hair, especially dark, coarse, wiry hair" or "I will not date someone who doesn't have developed eyelids, because I just do not find them sexy"??? How is this ANY different than someone expressing that they don't want to date someone who is excessively over/underweight, too tall/too short, not voluptuous enough/too curvy?? The characteristics that belong to black people are probably those that someone who doesn't want to date black people just doesn't find attractive. If they don't find them physically attractive at all, there isn't much foundation upon which to get the relationship/dating game started.

 

A relationship is built on SOOOOO much, but the honest to God truth that you HAVE YET to face up to is that a romantic relationship simply WILL NOT WORK if you are not physically attracted to the person. We can't help who we are attracted to, who makes us do a double take, and who makes us just say "eh" or "no way."

 

You should stop focusing on all the people out there who aren't attracted to you and focus on those that are!

[Hund1976]

That is all any of us want -- to be accepted based on our own merit. But if someone doesn't want to date me because I'm white and they don't find white skin appealing - it does NOT make them a racist!

I agree with this, I've met girls that I was interested in but they wouldn't get involved with me because they only dated their own race or religion. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the world that miss out on a potential good partner because they are a different race. But I wouldn't say they are all racist. Everyones entitled to their own preferences. There's a big difference between not dating someone and burning a cross in their front yard.

[Mr Spock]

- African - Black - People of African descent

- Caucasian - White - People of European descent

- Oriental (a term that some find offensive) - People of Asian desent

 

First of all, "Oriental" does NOT mean "people of asian descent". It is derived from Latin. oriens meant "rising". Oriental originally meant "direction of the sunrise".

 

Simply because it is EAST of Europe. West of the U.S. perhaps, but where the term originated to label the areas we know as China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam. It just means "east".

 

Thusly, the term was never used as a derogatory way to describe Asia-although in the U.S. since Asia is WEST once can see how the term isn't applicable.

 

 

 

Caucasian means "of or belonging to the region of the Caucasus". A writer called Blumenbach thought the entire caucasian race originated from the Caucasus mountains.

 

 

In America, but not the U.K. (apparently) it is also a racial category.

[HokeyReligions]

You missed one Mr Spock -- not all African's are Black! I sit next to an African American (someone who was born and raised in Africa and moved to the US and is now a citizen) and she is as white as I am. There is quite a large contingent of White people in Africa!

 

LOL!

[Mr Spock]

http://idcs0100.lib.iup.edu/~tconelly/Africa/Reading/evolrace-new.html

[Topaze]

Mr.Spock let's not get bogged down. The term Caucasian is generally used to refer to people of European origin. Yes we know the origin of the term. The words Oriental and Negroid ARE considered to be offensive by many so they have been replaced by the terms Asian and Black or of African descent.

 

If people have interest in getting into a discussion of what is race and how does one define race that is an interesting and valuable discussion. There are VOLUMES that have been written about how one defines race. This thread is not intended to be an indepth discussion of race and its definition.I gave a simple basic answer to a simple question. Let's just leave it at that.

 

I do not want to keep seeing this thread continually derailed and going off on tangents. For anyone who wants to have an indepth discusison about race and how one defines it, please start another thread or if there is another post about it. I will start another thread and you can take your discussion over there.

 

Thank you.

[Topaze]

But if someone doesn't want to date me because I'm white and they don't find white skin appealing - it does NOT make them a racist!

 

Oh yes it does. That is PRECISELY what racial discrimination is all about treating people differently and unfavourable strictly because of their race. It is sad that in 2005 people STILL don't get that. It is even sadder that so many of the people on this board are young and don't get it.

 

BTW, I didn't think we were allowed to post links or quotes on here because I have a lot of them that I could share. Can someone please point me to the rules...thanks.