Fair Distribution of Assets?

[Egone]

I need a mature 3rd party's perspective on what is fair to ask for after a 17 year relationship. If you've been in a live-in/married relationship for over 7 years, I would like your feedback. I need your help.

 

 

Next week, my ex and I are sitting down to discuss the final removal of "my stuff" from our home and "distribution of assets" (as I put it). I'm going to try sticking with facts here so you can make your recommendation.

• We lived together for 13 years, dated for 17.
  
• He owned the home when I moved in (had about 25% equity).
  
• My twin sons lived with us. He was/is a co-parent and definitely helped financially. I was the main caregiver.
  
• For 5 years of our relationship, I help start, ran and manage his business. I worked 60-80 hour work weeks (he doesn't dispute my worth and contributions to this). I was paid $12,500 total for ALL 5 years PLUS use of a car and living expenses for myself and my sons (no health insurance and my student loan debt did not get paid).
  
• After he got his dream job offer ($80k/year for what he loved) we agreed to close the business that was making more than that so he could take it in a city 1.5 hours away. OUR AGREEMENT: He would start job, I would close business, we would buy house, move within 6 months & get married. I knew this move was a career killer for me, and we agreed I would not have to take a lowly job. I could start a new business there once we were settled.
  
• We didn't move. Stayed put and unmarried. First year, he had an apartment near work. After that, he drove 1.5 hours each way (he still does, it turns out it wasn't for my shining love). Economy was in a dive. None of my business ideas were solid enough. Too risky.
  
• Within a year of closing the business, I had two formal job offers out of state. $50k w/decent house to live in and the other was $58k/year. We didn't accept them because it would've put us 7 hours apart from each other.
  
• The other 8 years that we lived together, I brought in an average of $12k/year after taxes mostly working from home selling stuff, small inherence, contract work. I had no formal job or steady income because all I could get locally was about minimum wage. Overall, he wasn't pleased with this (caused resentment). Neither was I (I love & kick butt at a challenging job).
  
• My other contributions included completly renovating the 1970's house (which he still enjoys). He paid for the vast majority of the supplies. I did the research, deal hunting, and labor to renovate the kitchen, bathrooms, painting, decorating, and furniture. I did buy most of the small stuff with my $ (lighting fixtures, linens, art work, kitchen supplies, etc.). It was my effort & elbow grease that did the work. We didn't contract out except for 1 custom built cabinet, the countertop, and carpet. He got final approval on everything.
  
• When we broke up and I moved out, I got my clothes, a bed in storage that I moved in with, and he gave me $3k for a car down payment. He told me if I needed more I should contact my parents! Lucky for me I got my degree and had a decent job lined up. I rented a room from a friend for cheap.
  

After that, we reconciled and dated for another 2 years, living apart, while I lived in other cities for work. He asked me to marry him after we reconciled but things were still shaky so I said, "let's wait" (after I had wanted it for years).

 

We had our final break-up a little over a year ago. It was mutual. We tried but could never get it back to being good. No fight. A single conversation.

 

We have never discussed what is to happen with assets.

 

We are both dating other people now and I know it's time we wrap these loose ends up. I am now making as much as he was but struggling because of debt I had to incur from starting with nothing at 38 and paying down student loans (about $10k of it was from penalties from not paying while running the business and $17k in extra loans for living expenses while we were together). I pay PMI on my mortgage because I didn't have 20% to put down.

 

I have no legal recourse. I know. I do want to ask for what is fair. No, I did not have his CC to buy whatever I liked. I lived quite meagerly when he was supporting us. No, one of us is not completely at fault for the split. We both did terrible things to each other and great things too (in my head I still blame him more). Yes, I know I should've at least gotten a cohabitation agreement while living with him, but it's too late now.

 

Our friends and family thought of us as married. We did too. When we went sofa shopping, it wasn't to buy him a sofa. We were buying a sofa for us, just like everything else we did in our 17 year relationship.

 

I want to ask for $20k, paid over time if that is better. He likes the house the way it is and I don't want to take a bunch of stuff that was bought for that home. I've already had to buy stuff for my house. The money will help me catch back up.

 

What do you think is fair to ask for? Nothing? I need advice.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Egone

[GirlStillStrong]

Distribution of assets is a legal concept. I strongly recommend you consult an attorney.

[Egone]

I have looked into this. There is no legal recourse in Ohio. They don't have Common Law Marriage and the assets were all in his name. Plus, it would be better to ask him first.

[TheBladeRunner]

I have looked into this. There is no legal recourse in Ohio. They don't have Common Law Marriage and the assets were all in his name. Plus, it would be better to ask him first.

 

Bummer Egone....bummer. Here in my area common law folks are afforded a lot of the rights married people are. Have you just "looked into it" or have you actually spoke with an attorney? I would dig a little deeper and look, it seems awfully unfair that there is nothing you can do after all you have contributed.

[Hardgrind]

Egone,

 

 

The first question is do you think your ex and you can agree to a collaborative separation of assets? If not all that really matters is what you are legally entitled to in your location. What each of you deserves really doesn't matter if it will only be a legal question.

 

 

Based on your "ask your parents" quote from him, it sounds unlikely that he is going to negotiate. But if your ex is willing to negotiate, I suggest the following.

- Base division based on when you started living together

- Estimate the equity built up in the house while you were together. That equity should be split 50/50 and might require him buying you out of your share.

- Everything acquired during the period you lived together should be split 50/50.

 

 

So if that comes to $20,000, go for it. But if he cannot be legally compelled to pay, and is not even willing to discuss, then I suggest you cut your losses and move on with your life.

[Egone]

Thank you for the advice!

 

Does anyone think that I should get nothing (given what he provided and that I had children from a previous marriage)?

 

I'm trying to think fair and get more perspectives. His motivation may be the idea that our friends and families will know. If I ask for too much, I'll be making a fool out of myself. I want to understand what the public sentiment is. I know I'm too emotionally involved.

[TheBladeRunner]

No, I don't think you should get nothing. When you cohabitate you should get something.

[CarrieT]

OP, have you approached him at all about getting some of the assets?

 

Because I have this terrible feeling it is going to backfire.

 

All that stuff you did (renovating his house) was "done out of love" and won't be considered an asset. Besides he paid for it. You were just the free labor.

 

And as for the agreements you made regarding his business? It is all in the past and there is no written agreement on what you should have earned or did earn. That is a write-off.

 

He has already told you that if you need more than the $3k he gave you, to go to your parents.

 

Honestly, I think you got what you are going to get and trying to get more will get you nothing but frustration - however much you feel you deserve...

[Egone]

He gave me the $3k for the car after we reconciled, but I was living on my own, and I told him it was the least he could do after I moved out with nothing.

 

I know my chances are slim and none, but I don't want to not at least ask for what is fair. I might as well do it when I have to see him next time to split photos and get the last odds and ends anyway. I don't plan to be wrecked from a "no".

 

He cares what our friends and families think of him. Do I infer that they will find out whatever he decides?

 

 

In addition, if it is a no, I will discuss taking every pot, pan, wall hanging, towel, coffee table and any other item I purchased even if I donate it to charity. If we can work something out, I'll leave the nicely decorated house as-is. I will walk away from anything that even hits it's turning into a fight. It's no use at that point with him. I know from experience.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Egone

[Turtles]

I don't think it's "fair" for you to walk away from a 13 year relationship with nothing but I don't think it's fair either to tell him you are entitled to some of his assets after he provided for you & your kids for that time.

 

Maybe you could have asked for something when you left to help you move out but to come back one year later and ask for your share, personally I think you are going to stir a lot of trouble for not much in return.

[clia]

For the 13 years that you lived together, how much did you contribute to the mortgage, property taxes, and home insurance?

 

You mentioned sofa buying...what other furniture in the house over the 13 years did you financially contribute to buying?

[GirlStillStrong]

It doesn't really matter what any of us thinks. The only thing that matters, if what you are saying is true, is what HE thinks. He doesn't "owe" you anything and anything he has given or will give is out of the kindness of his own heart. I still do not believe there is no legal recognition of your partnership in this day and age. Where do you live, the 1950s?!

[PegNosePete]

You should still consult an attorney. Even if common law is not recognized, you may still be entitled to something as you have contributed to the household. He can't just put you out like a cat.

 

Many lawyers will do a free initial consultation so it will cost you nothing. There's really no reason not to do it.

[WasOtherWoman]

I think when you live with someone, without being married and rely on them for support, this brings about a multitude of problems.

 

You passed up opportunities for decent paying jobs with which to support yourself because of HIM, who was unwilling to marry you and did not pass up opportunities for himself.

 

How is it that you were able to start several lucrative businesses and yet not make a minimum wage at a job? That seems odd to me.

 

Regardless, I think you chalk it up to a life lesson. Never make financial decisions based upon another person, especially one to whom you are not tied legally.

 

Just my humble opinion, but I do not believe that just because folks live together means that one owes the other something when they break up. That's the reason people live together without getting married, to avoid this stuff.

[Keenly]

I think when you live with someone, without being married and rely on them for support, this brings about a multitude of problems.

 

You passed up opportunities for decent paying jobs with which to support yourself because of HIM, who was unwilling to marry you and did not pass up opportunities for himself.

 

How is it that you were able to start several lucrative businesses and yet not make a minimum wage at a job? That seems odd to me.

 

Regardless, I think you chalk it up to a life lesson. Never make financial decisions based upon another person, especially one to whom you are not tied legally.

 

Just my humble opinion, but I do not believe that just because folks live together means that one owes the other something when they break up. That's the reason people live together without getting married, to avoid this stuff.

 

 

 

I'm with this.

 

You made the conscious decision to pass up on several opportunities.

 

 

I have a hard time seeing a judge awards you the money you are seeking.

[carhill]

Noting OP apparently has her own domicile ("I pay PMI on my mortgage because I didn't have 20% to put down"), has received some cash and apparently has some personal effects and furniture, IMO, if not already agreed to, a fair distribution of essential personal property, presuming OP lacks such property, like items essential to independent living like furniture, etc., then call it done and move on. Consider any real or perceived losses to be tuition at relationship university that will pay forward in life.

 

My exW and I had to go through some fairly complex machinations to unwind our M and separate businesses and we managed to do it amicably where we both gave some things up to get it done. Looking back, even though it cost me some cash, I'm in a far better place now than when married and I'll bet my exW feels the same way. Yeah, money is nice but we can always make more, even we old farts.

 

Take a hard look at one thing you want out of this and, moving forward, focus on that and let everything else go, including outcome dependency. Best advice I ever got from my attorney, though it cut his fee dramatically. Good luck!

[Egone]

I have one correction to some of the posters above. I, alone, did not make these decisions. We did.

 

 

I did not get paid a salary or hourly wage because it was our business, our home, our family.

 

I sought out, and did not take the job offers, because WE decided being together was a priority over larger dual incomes.

[PegNosePete]

I have a hard time seeing a judge awards you the money you are seeking.

But if the case is sufficiently strong to get to court, then you can ask for an out of court settlement, on the basis that it would be quicker and cheaper for him to pay "go away money" then to pay a lawyer to defend himself in court.

 

Give $20k to a lawyer, or $10k to the ex...?

[Keenly]

At the end of the day, only you are responsible for the choices you make.

[hotgurl]

I think when you live with someone, without being married and rely on them for support, this brings about a multitude of problems.

 

You passed up opportunities for decent paying jobs with which to support yourself because of HIM, who was unwilling to marry you and did not pass up opportunities for himself.

 

How is it that you were able to start several lucrative businesses and yet not make a minimum wage at a job? That seems odd to me.

 

Regardless, I think you chalk it up to a life lesson. Never make financial decisions based upon another person, especially one to whom you are not tied legally.

 

Just my humble opinion, but I do not believe that just because folks live together means that one owes the other something when they break up. That's the reason people live together without getting married, to avoid this stuff.

 

I 100% agree with this. You didn't protect yourself and I think it is a tough lesson learned.

 

Your energies would be better spent moving forward with you life than trying to get what your owed from you ex.

[carhill]

When I read the OP, I immediately thought of a fMW who told me, after living with her BF for a couple years in a place they rented, that she'd never move into a house he bought without her name on the title as a 50% tenant in common (method of holding title in our state). She used me masterfully (competition between men for the favors of a woman) in extracting that commitment from him and they now reside in a lovely rural home and she's parlayed those early years into a partnership in his thriving business. Well done! I may not have liked the way she used me but can admire her business savvy. Women around here are nothing if not smart!

[WasOtherWoman]

I have one correction to some of the posters above. I, alone, did not make these decisions. We did.

 

 

I did not get paid a salary or hourly wage because it was our business, our home, our family.

 

I sought out, and did not take the job offers, because WE decided being together was a priority over larger dual incomes.

 

Yes, I understand that but, the lesson you need to learn here is the there really is no "legal WE" without some sort of marriage, or contract or some sort.

 

You did not see HIM giving up his ability to support himself, did you? It is unfortunate that you agreed to pass on the ability to support yourself, but just chalk it up to a lesson learned and make better decisions next time.

 

edited: I am honestly not trying to be hard on you, I am just huge on personal responsibility. My husband is the CEO of a major corporation, and, to his displeasure, I continue to work my very well-paying job. I will never give up my ability to be self-sufficient. No one should.

Edited November 12, 2014 by WasOtherWoman

[WasOtherWoman]

When I read the OP, I immediately thought of a fMW who told me, after living with her BF for a couple years in a place they rented, that she'd never move into a house he bought without her name on the title as a 50% tenant in common (method of holding title in our state). She used me masterfully (competition between men for the favors of a woman) in extracting that commitment from him and they now reside in a lovely rural home and she's parlayed those early years into a partnership in his thriving business. Well done! I may not have liked the way she used me but can admire her business savvy. Women around here are nothing if not smart!

 

Clever woman.

[BikerAccnt]

Egone,

 

 

I too live in Ohio, and split a few years ago from a woman I lived with for 8 years.

 

 

Yes, I think you deserve some of the assets, but you're right, in Ohio, you're not legally entitled to any. I did a lot of research before I left as far as what I was entitled to vs. what it would cost me in time and energy to pursue it. I decided against pursing anything. Of course, my situation is different, there were no kids and no business.

 

 

When we split, I just walked away. We owned a house together, joint title, joint mortgage. I just signed off and gave it to her. We could have fought over it, but, I didn't want to bother. This was the only asset I was legally entitled to since my name was on the deed and the mortgage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't get much in the way of other assets either. Joint accounts, she kept the money, household belongings, she got them. Dogs, she kept them (that one kind of hurt!). But, in the end, I'm happier out even though I have less "assets."

 

 

The big mistake I think you made, wasn't not marrying, but was in starting a business relationship without a contract. Not being married, a business contract should have been a must. You helped run and organize those business', you should have gotten far more out of them.

 

 

At any rate, best of luck to you, from another Ohioan.

[WasOtherWoman]

 

 

The big mistake I think you made, wasn't not marrying, but was in starting a business relationship without a contract. Not being married, a business contract should have been a must. You helped run and organize those business', you should have gotten far more out of them.

 

 

 

Yes, exactly. Absolutely should have put the business relationship in a contract.