The Ups and Downs

[i am gutted]

absolutely in same boat with the NC. is very hard to do and the mental side of things is killing me.

 

 

 

 

Thanks to all for the input. I agree that this is the time to work on me, establish NC (as much as possible with a child that I still want to see regularly) and try to do the 180.

 

I think my biggest problem at this point is mental. I have been so focused on her and our life together for so long, it's almost impossible for me to think of anything else. I have a very hard time keeping my head from spiraling into negative territory.

 

I have told a few people and it always makes me feel better to talk to them. I also have seen a therapist and will continue to do so. It's just hard to focus on myself when all I want is to get back what I had.

 

I know what I have to do - it's just very hard to actually do it.

[KBarletta]

Hi again, all. I've been laying low for a little while, but thought it was time for another update.

 

I had a meeting with my attorney scheduled for yesterday evening to finalize divorce documents and get everything ready to file. For two days leading up to it, I was a wreck. Anxious, nervous, rehashing the past in my head, wondering if I could do/could have done things differently. I kept the appointment of course (the attorney is an old friend of mine and is himself divorced with a teenage daughter - he gets exactly what I am going through). It lasted an hour. When I walked out the door, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted, almost like I remembered what it was like to be me, before my wife came along. It had been a long time since I felt something approaching that kind of happiness, that I was taking a step forward (even if it was a step I didn't and still don't want). It didn't last forever, but it was a good feeling.

 

I also have been meeting with real estate agents to figure out where I will be living when the dust settles. I can't keep our current house - too expensive with one income, too large for just me and occasionally my daughter, and filled with too many memories for me to really move on. I've been torn between getting a place big enough for a family or downsizing significantly with just space for myself and daughter. I feel like the latter, while more affordable and potentially better for me, would be admitting defeat, like I won't have another family for the foreseeable future. Not sure what to make of that feeling.

 

Also, while my wife is the one who has asked for the D, but is doing nothing about it, we remain strictly limited contact. I haven't seen her face or heard her voice in several months and our contact is via text and e-mail. Still, a few weeks ago (on a Saturday that I know she was out drinking with her friends), her cell phone number showed up (again) on my caller ID. I wasn't home to answer it, but it's the fourth or fifth time she's called and left no message. I haven't acknowledged any of the calls. This one came when she was most likely drunk.

 

Anyhow, I'm moving forward, albeit reluctantly, with my life. Some of it is exciting, some of it very sad. But it's the reality of my life at the moment.

[kenmore]

Hey KB, you are progressing well my friend!

 

Regarding the house purchase, I'd go with small. It's not admitting defeat, it's admitting the unknown. suppose your next woman has a nice house or wants to buy one together with you? You buying a family sized house now may be assumptive, and while that is good in some situations, this may not be one.

 

It's like doing a lot of remodeling before selling a house. You most likely won't get it back out, and how can you know that's what the new buyers will want? Go with small and cheap for now.

 

I must say it's nice seeing you progress. It's refreshing, and I really hope you and your daughter can enjoy some nice times in the future.

 

As for the calls with no messages, I think the lack of message speaks for itself. It's empty. Don't read anything into it.

 

I wish you the best of a future! Place that love in your daughter where it belongs, not a wife who you are divorcing and leaves empty messages.

 

Ken

[KBarletta]

Thanks Ken. I don't feel like I am doing as well as it probably sounds to everyone on here, but I have been feeling better, slowly but surely, each day, week, etc. It's definitely a slow process. I wish you luck with yours as well. Keep moving forward!

 

The silver lining of this, if there is one, is that it has absolutely brought me and my daughter closer than ever. We really cherish our time together, which for a 13-year-old girl, isn't always the case with parents. I have fallen in love with her all over again, like I did when her mother and I first got together. And I am determined to make the most of our time together from now on, already planning some summer getaways to the beach and some amusement parks, etc., with her and some of her younger cousins on my side of the family.

 

As for my wife, I know I shouldn't give a second thought to the phone calls, but I can't help it. I know it's not an accident. Her phone has a strict keypad lock - she never once "accidentally" called me on her cell phone in 10 years before this, so it's impossible that five calls in five months are accidents. It means she's thinking about me, even if it's a fleeting thought. I am thinking of her, too, but not in the same way. My thoughts - lately - of her have been sympathetic, looking at her future and seeing her unhappy and wishing she would have made different choices. I know this is mostly wishful thinking/projection on my part, but I don't foresee her being happy with this decision when she looks back on it from a distance. She even said to me that she thought she was probably making the biggest mistake of her life when she left. She makes much less $$ than I do, and isn't asking for any support, so she is likely going to struggle in the future to make a decent life for herself. I will do what I can to help our daughter, of course, but she will be an adult in 4 years. After that, I envision an unhappy existence for my wife. I could be wrong, but I know her well enough to know what makes her happy.

 

I hope I am wrong.

[chew123]

My thoughts - lately - of her have been sympathetic, looking at her future and seeing her unhappy and wishing she would have made different choices. I know this is mostly wishful thinking/projection on my part, but I don't foresee her being happy with this decision when she looks back on it from a distance. She even said to me that she thought she was probably making the biggest mistake of her life when she left. She makes much less $$ than I do, and isn't asking for any support, so she is likely going to struggle in the future to make a decent life for herself.

 

QUOTE]

 

KB, that is exactly what I have been thinking of my wife lately. OOPs I mean exwife as of yesterday. I make more money, she had to start working 40 hours a week after working 20 for most of her life and received no support. She has said getting involved with the man is the biggest "mistake" she ever made. She still loves me. blah blah blah. She is losing the house she loves and though she walked away with a lot of money she will have to work now. Even though she says all this, she never looked back once. If she had tried to come back early on I would have taken her back.

 

After the divorce we had lunch and she finally gave me some insight into why she left but it was all kind of untrue or unreasonable. She said I was mean sometimes( not true but that is my perspective), worked too much(40 -50 hours with 7 weeks of vacation), and she was not on board to travel a lot during our planned retirement. Of course she never really brought any of this up except maybe in passing, never in a serious conversation. I think she is finding justifications after the affair.

 

Has your wife given you any reason why she left yet? I have been waiting but honestly hearing the reasons did not help any, just made me sad because they were all easily fixable and negotiable. I really don't believe her and think she just started to cheat and never looked back.

[KBarletta]

Has your wife given you any reason why she left yet? I have been waiting but honestly hearing the reasons did not help any, just made me sad because they were all easily fixable and negotiable. I really don't believe her and think she just started to cheat and never looked back.

 

She provided some reasons when she first made her decision, but it all sounded like a combination of GIGS, mid-life crisis and/or ILYBINILWY. It was all about things she always wanted to do but never did. All of it, like you said, was stuff we could have worked out if she had been more open about her feelings. I asked her flat-out if there was someone else and she said no. She could have lied, of course. I haven't asked for any reasons since then, as we've been very low contact and I am not interested in any more drama.

[chew123]

KB,

 

Good for you on not asking. I am not looking for reasons any more either, since I don't think she even knows. They just came out in our after divorce conversation.

 

chew

[KBarletta]

KB,

 

Good for you on not asking. I am not looking for reasons any more either, since I don't think she even knows. They just came out in our after divorce conversation.

 

chew

 

In the end, to me, the reasons don't even matter. What ever they were, they were more important to her than I was, and that's all I need to know.

 

I don't even expect that I'll get an "after" conversation, as according to my attorney, as long as my wife doesn't file any objections to the terms of our divorce, which are very straight-forward, we won't even have to appear in court together.

[darkbloom]

This is all very heartbreaking for me. I feel like if you're going to break your wedding vows you should have a damn good reason.

[darkbloom]

This is all very heartbreaking for me. I feel like if you're going to break your wedding vows you should have a damn good reason.

 

When I say 'you' I mean her of course.

[KBarletta]

This is all very heartbreaking for me. I feel like if you're going to break your wedding vows you should have a damn good reason.

 

I agree. I think it's clear from what I have read that a good number of people look at wedding vows as temporary, just good enough until something better comes along. I never did, but it seems that my wife did. We had a fine life. Admittedly, it wasn't perfect, with roses and rainbows and fairy tales every day. But there was love and respect, along with a level of comfort and familiarity that takes years to build. There are clearly "out of bounds" issues like abuse, cheating, neglect, that are legitimate reasons to kick someone to the curb. But none of those were present in our life, at least not on my end.

[minimariah]

sending you hugs!

i've been following your thread & it's good to see you moving on... one day at a time. you will heal from this, trust.

[darkbloom]

I agree. I think it's clear from what I have read that a good number of people look at wedding vows as temporary, just good enough until something better comes along. I never did, but it seems that my wife did. We had a fine life. Admittedly, it wasn't perfect, with roses and rainbows and fairy tales every day. But there was love and respect, along with a level of comfort and familiarity that takes years to build. There are clearly "out of bounds" issues like abuse, cheating, neglect, that are legitimate reasons to kick someone to the curb. But none of those were present in our life, at least not on my end.

 

If one is going to think of wedding vows as tempory, why get married. Why not just date without vows and without the legal contract.

 

If your wife thinks that she is going to find someone who will give her roses and rainbows and fairy tales everyday she is not living in reality.

 

Everyone wants that comfort. That safe place to land at the end of the day. It will take landing hard on her face to regret that place she once had.

[KBarletta]

If your wife thinks that she is going to find someone who will give her roses and rainbows and fairy tales everyday she is not living in reality.

 

Everyone wants that comfort. That safe place to land at the end of the day. It will take landing hard on her face to regret that place she once had.

 

Thanks darkbloom. In my wife's case, I think a desire of "excitement" and "adventure" was more important than that comfort or soft place to land. Funny thing, though - when she left she expressed a long-term desire for this excitement and adventure, but when we were together did absolutely nothing to introduce those things into our relationship, or even express an interest in them. She was quiet about what she wanted until it came time to leave. That is the part that I will never be able to get over. She had a list of all of these things she wanted that she kept hidden from me and then blamed me for not fulfilling it.

[81West]

I had a best friend named L for about 10 years beginning in the mid 90's. L had a dramatic affair driven end to her marriage after four years around that time which I witnessed in painful proximity. Her husband was devastated and tried for some time, often through me, to reconnect with her. Had the details of the whole thing been recounted on LS it would have been one of those threads where people suspected somebody was having them on and making the whole thing up, such were the cast of characters and surreality at times. Anyway, she told me once that her thought at the time when she was preparing to marry was "hey if it doesn't work out I'll just get a divorce". That blew me away. How many people do that I wonder? Eventually as I recounted she did just that, eventually leaving her husband for the crime of being exactly the same uncomplicated, hard-working guy she married.

 

I felt for her husband very much, but also eventually wondered what red flags he had overlooked or justified about her personality. The ones I justified about her personality eventually ended our friendship when her lack of reliable empathy and selfishness finally bit me too. I can't say I didn't know she was capable, I just irrationally thought it wouldn't ever be me. She wasn't a bad person, and had many wonderful traits, but she was flawed in a particular way that was eventually going to be hard on those that counted on loyalty from her and entrusted her with parts of themselves.

 

Very curious about something: To those who were mostly blindsided, and who feel that the spouse that left them was not the spouse they married - being ruthlessly honest did you miss or overlook red flags about your partner's ability to connect consistently with others, make rapid shifts in focus or commitment, or their tendency to serve themselves at others' expense etc.?

Edited March 30, 2015 by 81West

[KBarletta]

Very curious about something: To those who were mostly blindsided, and who feel that the spouse that left them was not the spouse they married - being ruthlessly honest did you miss or overlook red flags about your partner's ability to connect consistently with others, make rapid shifts in focus or commitment, or their tendency to serve themselves at others' expense etc.?

 

Looking back, I can see a few clues (I wouldn't call them red flags) as to the differences in our approach to long-term relationships.

 

Early on in our time together, my wife's sister (who was divorced from a husband who had cheated on her) had as her "boyfriend" a man who was himself married with children. He would show up to family functions (he even came to our wedding) but I never warmed up to him and never really treated him like "one of the family." I readily admit that I didn't like him. This was a bit of a sore spot between myself and my wife because she could tell that I was cold toward him. My reasoning was that he was cheating on his wife every time I was around him and it made me uncomfortable. I knew this, and as a result I couldn't really feel good about his relationship with my sister in law. Their relationship didn't last long, but it opened a window for me into how my wife viewed infidelity. She didn't seem to think of their relationship as any different from ours, even though he was still (supposedly happily) married with children while "dating" her sister.

 

I look back on that situation and realize that her views on marriage commitments in general may have been out of line with my own, and maybe I just never put the pieces together.

[BC1980]

Looking back, I can see a few clues (I wouldn't call them red flags) as to the differences in our approach to long-term relationships.

 

Early on in our time together, my wife's sister (who was divorced from a husband who had cheated on her) had as her "boyfriend" a man who was himself married with children. He would show up to family functions (he even came to our wedding) but I never warmed up to him and never really treated him like "one of the family." I readily admit that I didn't like him. This was a bit of a sore spot between myself and my wife because she could tell that I was cold toward him. My reasoning was that he was cheating on his wife every time I was around him and it made me uncomfortable. I knew this, and as a result I couldn't really feel good about his relationship with my sister in law. Their relationship didn't last long, but it opened a window for me into how my wife viewed infidelity. She didn't seem to think of their relationship as any different from ours, even though he was still (supposedly happily) married with children while "dating" her sister.

 

I look back on that situation and realize that her views on marriage commitments in general may have been out of line with my own, and maybe I just never put the pieces together.

 

It's funny you mention this because, now that I'm open to dating again, I've become more aware of how people view relationships as a way to determine compatibility. My ex made a few comments that made me questions if our views on relationships were compatible, but I brushed my fears under the rug. He made the comment that it was okay to divorce a person who had dementia or multiple sclerosis because it would lower his quality of life, having to care for the person. I just found that cold and very odd to even bring up. At one point, he thought he might have a brain tumor (because he was very dramatic and over the top with his health), and he questioned why I would want to marry him is that were the case. I had never even questioned not marrying him if he did end up being sick.

 

I'm not saying his line of thinking is right or wrong, but it's definitely different than mine. The ultimate reason we didn't get married is because I had struggled with an eating disorder and depression in the past, even though I've been stable for years. He saw me as a liability to him in the long run. I read a blog about how we look for superficial qualities in looking for a partner. We look for things like shared hobbies and physical chemistry, which I think are important. But we don't look at the foundational commonalities, like mutual trust, views on love and long term relationship, and shared values. We sort of gloss over those things, when, in the long run, those common values are what help you go the distance.

[kenmore]

If one is going to think of wedding vows as tempory, why get married. Why not just date without vows and without the legal contract.

 

Because it's so easy to get out of. At the time they probably feel they want it (I suppose), but not long after, they wish they hadn't. You know, buyers remorse. I guess that feeling just lingers as they find more and more reasons to want out. Eventually, they have enough reasons, and getting out is as easy as tossing some bucks at the legal system; or if you don't have a few bucks, getting that waived.

 

Personally I feel the sanctity of it all has been tossed under the bus, but who am I to stand in the way of progress?

[darkbloom]

Thanks darkbloom. In my wife's case, I think a desire of "excitement" and "adventure" was more important than that comfort or soft place to land. Funny thing, though - when she left she expressed a long-term desire for this excitement and adventure, but when we were together did absolutely nothing to introduce those things into our relationship, or even express an interest in them. She was quiet about what she wanted until it came time to leave. That is the part that I will never be able to get over. She had a list of all of these things she wanted that she kept hidden from me and then blamed me for not fulfilling it.

 

I believe she used the excitement and adventure as her excuse to leave. I do not think that is the actual reason she wanted out of the marriage. If she never expressed those desires or spoke of them in the relationship then she has no right to leave and divorce over it. There was no conversation about it, no chance to fix, no chance to reconcile the problems. This makes me think that it is something deeper and darker within herself.

 

Can I ask if she ever had any self-esteem issues? Or any past abuse in prior relationships?

[darkbloom]

Because it's so easy to get out of. At the time they probably feel they want it (I suppose), but not long after, they wish they hadn't. You know, buyers remorse. I guess that feeling just lingers as they find more and more reasons to want out. Eventually, they have enough reasons, and getting out is as easy as tossing some bucks at the legal system; or if you don't have a few bucks, getting that waived.

 

Personally I feel the sanctity of it all has been tossed under the bus, but who am I to stand in the way of progress?

 

I would say KB's daughter would disagree with you. What a terrible thing to put her child through because she's got buyers remorse. Because she did not take her wedding vows seriously. KB would probably also disagree with you since his wife has not put in a single shred of effort to file for divorce. Therefore forcing him to seek out legal counsel and spend time and emotional energy on something that he does not even want.

 

 

I am pretty sure traditional vows go something like "I promise to honor and cherish you as long as we both shall live." Not "I promise to honor and cherish you as long as all of the adventures and goals I have for myself that I never talked to you about are fulfilled."

 

My 2c. /rant. Sorry KB for speaking on your behalf.

Edited March 31, 2015 by darkbloom

[KBarletta]

This makes me think that it is something deeper and darker within herself.

 

Can I ask if she ever had any self-esteem issues? Or any past abuse in prior relationships?

 

Actually, your post was very perceptive and, I think, spot on. There is something within that makes my wife restless and unhappy with the status quo, no matter what it is. At the same time, she is someone who her entire life has been afraid of change and avoidant of conflict and confrontation. She's never held a job more than a year or two. She's never lived anywhere more than a few years before moving.

 

As for self esteem issues, she has no reason to have them because she's brilliantly intelligent and voluptuously beautiful, but looking back I think she does. In 10 years together, I told her every day that I loved her (at least once) and that she was beautiful. Her response almost every time was "Really?" or "You're going blind." I will admit that in our 10 years together she put on weight, and she wasn't happy about it, but it never affected my attraction to her of my feelings for her.

 

Abuse - She comes from a family of dysfunctional relationships and divorces, which is the opposite of me. My parents have been married 44 years and my only sister for 23. But my wife's parents divorced when she was young, and her father was verbally and emotionally abusive. He was an alcoholic and threatened suicide when his wife would threaten to leave. They stayed together longer than they should have because of that. My wife has four sisters. Two of them are divorced, one left her fiance a month before their planned wedding, and the fourth (who is the only one who's had a successful LTR) had a child at 16.

 

My wife had a child at age 24 with a boyfriend who promptly abandoned her as soon as he found out she was pregnant. I came along shortly thereafter.

 

I don't know what all of the above means, but it probably gives you some clues as to why and how things worked out the way they did.

[kenmore]

DB, while you say people would disagree with me (do you?) what you said was what I meant. I feel people should take their vows seriously as well as their partners and marriage in general, but for whatever reason, they often don't.

 

But if one lesson has been learned by me in this whole experience, it's that getting out of a marriage, at least here in Ca, is cake. You just say you don't want it anymore, file some papers, maybe pay some fees and that's it. Maybe wiping your hands when you're done to show the world how satisfied you are. That's optional.

 

KB, your wife has a lot of similarities to mine, including the abusive background; but some very big differences as well, such as everyone in her family is in a long term marriage. Her sisters married at 18 (each of them), and are still with the same men, even though they cheated on them. Her parents were married for over 50 years, until her father died. The only relationship loser is her (unless you figure someone staying with someone who cheated on them a loser.)

 

I don't think any of those things you mention matter, it's just how they are wired. Some people want a good solid relationship, others don't. We just chose poorly. Live and learn!

 

Ken

[darkbloom]

Actually, your post was very perceptive and, I think, spot on. There is something within that makes my wife restless and unhappy with the status quo, no matter what it is. At the same time, she is someone who her entire life has been afraid of change and avoidant of conflict and confrontation. She's never held a job more than a year or two. She's never lived anywhere more than a few years before moving.

 

As for self esteem issues, she has no reason to have them because she's brilliantly intelligent and voluptuously beautiful, but looking back I think she does. In 10 years together, I told her every day that I loved her (at least once) and that she was beautiful. Her response almost every time was "Really?" or "You're going blind." I will admit that in our 10 years together she put on weight, and she wasn't happy about it, but it never affected my attraction to her of my feelings for her.

 

Abuse - She comes from a family of dysfunctional relationships and divorces, which is the opposite of me. My parents have been married 44 years and my only sister for 23. But my wife's parents divorced when she was young, and her father was verbally and emotionally abusive. He was an alcoholic and threatened suicide when his wife would threaten to leave. They stayed together longer than they should have because of that. My wife has four sisters. Two of them are divorced, one left her fiance a month before their planned wedding, and the fourth (who is the only one who's had a successful LTR) had a child at 16.

 

My wife had a child at age 24 with a boyfriend who promptly abandoned her as soon as he found out she was pregnant. I came along shortly thereafter.

 

I don't know what all of the above means, but it probably gives you some clues as to why and how things worked out the way they did.

 

I think the bolded bits above explain your wife's sudden departure and lack of explanation. It is what she always does. She runs away when things get tough or when it would involve a tough conversation. Does she have any regrets from before? Because it sounds like she is going to have a lot of them now.

 

Although she might be physically beautiful, she sounds deeply insecure about herself. Her family upbringing might also explain her difference of opinions on the nature of vows and marriage.

 

You're stability probably scares the hell out of her. She has never had any of it. Maybe she is craving the chaos and drama and what she would consider 'normal' from her family. Or maybe she left you before you could leave her. Not because you actually would, but because she is insecure about it.

 

She sounds like she needs therapy to sort these out. But it provides a clearer picture for me of what she is actually like.

 

This still breaks my heart.

[darkbloom]

DB, while you say people would disagree with me (do you?) what you said was what I meant. I feel people should take their vows seriously as well as their partners and marriage in general, but for whatever reason, they often don't.

 

But if one lesson has been learned by me in this whole experience, it's that getting out of a marriage, at least here in Ca, is cake. You just say you don't want it anymore, file some papers, maybe pay some fees and that's it. Maybe wiping your hands when you're done to show the world how satisfied you are. That's optional.

 

KB, your wife has a lot of similarities to mine, including the abusive background; but some very big differences as well, such as everyone in her family is in a long term marriage. Her sisters married at 18 (each of them), and are still with the same men, even though they cheated on them. Her parents were married for over 50 years, until her father died. The only relationship loser is her (unless you figure someone staying with someone who cheated on them a loser.)

 

I don't think any of those things you mention matter, it's just how they are wired. Some people want a good solid relationship, others don't. We just chose poorly. Live and learn!

 

Ken

 

I'm saying that this lack of seriousness taken when exchanging vows is truly disheartening. KB's wife has a child that considers him her dad. This is merging two families into one and it should not be something to take lightly. And then the ripping apart of that family after the promise to not do that. What about their daughter? It's not fair and it is a pretty heartless thing to do.

[KBarletta]

I think the bolded bits above explain your wife's sudden departure and lack of explanation. It is what she always does. She runs away when things get tough or when it would involve a tough conversation. Does she have any regrets from before? Because it sounds like she is going to have a lot of them now.

 

Although she might be physically beautiful, she sounds deeply insecure about herself. Her family upbringing might also explain her difference of opinions on the nature of vows and marriage.

 

You're stability probably scares the hell out of her. She has never had any of it. Maybe she is craving the chaos and drama and what she would consider 'normal' from her family. Or maybe she left you before you could leave her. Not because you actually would, but because she is insecure about it.

 

She sounds like she needs therapy to sort these out. But it provides a clearer picture for me of what she is actually like.

 

This still breaks my heart.

 

DB, I think you hit the nail on the head with 99 percent of what you said here, and this discussion is actually helping me gain more clarity as to why things have happened the way they have.

 

My wife has been abandoned many times by the men in her life and as a result has always been insecure. She also has always had one foot out the door, which I never realized until the other one was also out the door. I also don't think she ever truly believed that I was in it for good. Her own father, and the "sperm donor" of her child walked away from her without a word. Her dad came back after about 10 years and mended fences, but things were never quite the same.

 

The truth is that my wife does need therapy. She isn't getting it, though. I know this because as the holder of our insurance policy, I get weekly reports from my health insurance provider as to which doctors the family is seeing and when. She isn't seeing anyone (or if she is, she's paying out of pocket which I know for certain she could not afford to do).

 

She runs away when things get tough or when it would involve a tough conversation.

 

^THIS is 100 percent my wife's M.O. and has been for years. She has NEVER wanted to have tough conversations and has always been passive aggressive about getting her point across.