Just want to confirm my interpretation is correct

[SteveDC]

Well, I joined. I thought by reading, and reading, and reading as an anon user, I could help make sense of my situation, but while there are plenty similar like mine, I suggest ultimately each story is somewhat unique. Therefore, I decided to join LS, and see if anyone has any advice for my current situation.

 

General Background

I’m a 31 year old male (who's about to sound like a child as I type this), who finally woke up and realized…man, I miss my ex…of four years ago. No seriously, here me out. I’ve been dating over the past four years, and her and I have kept in contact since (maybe once every month or two via Facebook, call, text). Not often, but enough to still have that friendship sort of vibe, and familiarity with each other’s lives. With that said, when we broke up (she ended it), I definitely walked out of her life. In fact, she continued to contact me for a solid six months after we broke up, asking for small favors, small talk, really anything that could keep me around. Do I suggest at that time she still loved me, even though she ended it? I honestly have no idea, but it was clear she wasn’t ready to let go.

 

Why did she finally break it off after two years of being together? Back then, I was a drinker. Not the type that woke up and shook until I had a drink, but definitely a daily (evenings) boozer, who would honestly choose a bottle of vodka over the women I was in love with. I hid it for a while, but eventually it came out, and it was either her, or the booze. She even tried helping me get help, but I explained to her that someone with an addiction can’t quit for someone else, they HAVE to want to do it, and do it for themselves.

 

It’s been a year since I stopped, and wow has my life gotten so much better in so many ways. She knows it, too. The ONE thing that kept us from taking our relationship further was my constant battle with the bottle. I’m happy and very confident to say, that’s buried in my past, has been treated, and I live a normal, happy life without even thinking about “I could use a drink right now”. Physically I look my best, have more energy, focus on priorities, and overall, am happy with where I’m at. She knows that, as well.

 

Two Weeks Ago -> Now

Two weeks ago, I decided to go see her at work (Outside of the day job, she has a part time job as a bartender - where I met her). Mind you, we’ve only talked on the phone once or twice in the past few months. I show up, her face lights up like the sun, she comes running over, and slams a huge kiss on my cheek. Smiles from ear to ear. We get to talking (the catch up stuff), and she asks “Soo….why all of sudden are you here? Gosh, it’s been forever.”. I keep beating around the bush, and can’t really say what’s truly on my mind, but after some comfortable convincing, I open up and tell her that I’m finally thinking clearly regarding so many aspects of my life. I miss her, miss her in my life, and miss being a part of hers. My delivery was very smooth, and I definitely DID NOT sound needy at all. It was more of a nostalgic tone if anything, and an interest to have her back in my life on some level. Hell, I even told her I wasn’t even sure what level that was, I just knew I wanted to see her more. We continued talked, and she said she’d call me. Five days later (Friday night), she did. We agreed to meet for dinner, and she even joked as it being “a date”. We sat, talked, had dinner, opened up a little more to each other, and overall, I felt like things were going well. We talked comfortable about the people we had been seeing, yet neither of us could make those relationships work (we’re both single). We leave the restaurant, and I drop her off. I thought I had this one in the bag. I texted her a kiss, and got no response. The next morning (Saturday), I wake to find, still, no response. I text a sarcastic remark about not replying back…no response. I wait until the early afternoon and try and call…nothing. I text again, basically telling her I was just curious was she was up to tonight, and that I wanted to see her. FINALLY, I hear back, and get a cold response of “I’m sorry, I’ve been crazy busy all day shopping for cars. Let’s talk another time…”. ARE you F*CKING serious? I continue to break down like a total loser, and call her at work the next day. While happy to hear from me, the call was quick and she was curious as to why I called her at work (I called her at work all the time when we were dating - it wasn’t a problem). She said she’d call me later that night after work. She did, I missed the call, tried back…nothing. A few days later I get a call from her as she was super excited she finally got her new car, I didn’t mentioned A THING about the past weekend, and was just honestly happy for her. We hung up.

 

A few days ago, I surprise her at work (part time job, public restaurant - I wouldn’t just show up at someone’s office I wasn't clearly dating), only this time…no huge smile, no big kiss. Definitely more of a “heyyy….soo…how’s it going. What are you doing here?” - with a wry smile. We chat, she shows me her new car, and before I leave - I bring it all up. I asked her, “what did I do? I honestly think I pushed a little too hard, and apologies”. She confirmed, I definitely was pushing too hard. We kept the conversation going, and I asked her if I was wasting my time, and if I stepped over the line. She replied that she definitely still has feelings for me, but not enough for a relationship. In fact, she can’t be in a relationship with anyone right now - at all. She has two jobs, and is in school part time (grad school). I’m surprised she even had time to see me in the first place.

 

Today/Now

No contact. Sorry, meaning, I’m not contacting her AT ALL. In fact, I even deleted her number from my phone. My once best friend, whom I stayed in touch with over the years, walked back into her life, had a fun couple of dates, then BAM. She totally shuts down. Two weeks ago it was excitement, giggling, somewhat flirting, and now, if I called or texted her at this very moment, I doubt I would get a response.

 

Ladies (and gents?), apologies for all the boring details, but what in the hell did I do wrong? Chance, no chance?

 

Best,

~ Steve

Edited October 28, 2014 by SteveDC

[HeartbrokenNewbie]

Huge congrats on beating the drink but can I ask.. Have u dealt with any dramas in that time? In other words have u made it through any bad experiences without reaching for the bottle? x

[SteveDC]

I have. It wasn't easy, but definitely wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. I had to make some life changes (mainly work less), and stay busy in other areas, which helped keep me busy without getting overrun or bored thinking about going on a bender. But in general, the alcohol is definitely not an issue I face anymore. I don't know what the future holds, but I've been strong through it all.

[cerridwen]

You pushed a bit hard after that initial Friday night date.

The text kiss might have felt a bit much for her, followed by the next text..then more texts...then the call to work. :/

 

After Friday night, she likely had a lot to process just about the hangout alone.

The text kiss may have added more pressure then even more was heaped on with subsequent contact.

 

Thing is, I'm obviously only guessing. Because she may have been starting to shut down even prior to the end of Friday's date. It's so difficult to say. But based on what you wrote, I'm guessing the over-eagerness turned her off.

[Ronni_W]

Ladies (and gents?), apologies for all the boring details, but what in the hell did I do wrong? Chance, no chance?

You didn't do any wrong, externally. You did a lot wrong, internally...or one thing, with many aspects/facets...or, there's just a number of different words or ways to say the one thing.

 

Bear with me, and pick whichever fits and feels best for your self-assessment. You assumed or took for granted or expected that what you were feeling, she also was (wrong); and that what you wanted/envisioned for this "new future", she was also wanting/envisioning (wrong). You misread her genuine friendliness for something more than what it actually was (wrong).

You only read and/or interpreted the recent interactions based on what YOU wanted them to mean, without gathering facts and evidence to support your assumption/interpretation (not ever a smart idea). You forgot to even wonder if she was even reading your same book, let alone was on the same page (also not smart).

 

What you can prevent from doing wrong next, is to not keep wondering what you did wrong...nothing, externally. In fact, she already told you that. She already told you that you did nothing wrong. It would be another "wrong" or mistake to not just listen and accept where she is in life, her current priorities as stated by her, and that it does not include you. She already told you that you do not have a chance...and that there's no one else she knows right now, who has a chance, either. (It's not AGAINST you or about you, but her own supporting and progressing of her own current goals, wants, desires. It would be another "wrong" to make it about you.)

 

It also doesn't mean that she won't meet someone tomorrow. But it does mean that it's not you. (That's harsh, but that's what she said...if you are willing to properly interpret her words AND actions, and not try to blow smoke up your own butt.)

 

Not that it doesn't somewhat suck. Hugs.

[SteveDC]

Thank you SO much cerridwen, and Ronni_W. I think both of you gave some great advice, and of course, while none of it is positive for me, I'm glad to hear it straight.

 

I mentioned that I'm not going to reach out to her anymore, but (without sounding like a total toolbox), I promise you, she'll reach back out to me. Thing is (and looking back, I didn't mention this because I didn't think it was important), we use to live in the same city, and I'm moving back very soon (new job, nothing to do with her). I'm sure she'll probably be interested in my new job, apartment, etc.

 

Clearly I have feelings for her, and clearly I (idiot) told her that straight up...

So...how do I handle these conversations moving forward? "LIKE A MAN, STEVE!!" Sure, but is it safe to say I need to minimize all contact and just move on?

[Ronni_W]

So...how do I handle these conversations moving forward? "LIKE A MAN, STEVE!!" Sure, but is it safe to say I need to minimize all contact and just move on?

"Like a SMART man, Steve!!!" It's not 'idiotic' to express one's true feelings but, IMO, it IS idiotic to automatically expect that they'll automatically be reciprocated or to then allow oneself to go all to pieces if they're not.

 

In any case. Moving forward, I'd say just do whatever is easiest on your own heart, self-esteem and peace of mind. Only you know if you can control your feelings well enough to handle whatever level of contact YOU choose to have with her. You are equally not obligated to satisfy her "interest" in your job, apartment, life.

 

At the same time, you are ASSUMING and GUESSING that she'll be interested in your life, and/or maybe just assuming and guessing at her level of interest. But that kind of self-induced self-mindfckgn is what got you posting in the first place. STOP doing that to yourself. Be a SMART man, Steve!!!

[SoThatHappened]

You quit the bottle. +1,000

 

You had the balls to put your heart out there. +500

 

You came on a little strong. -500

 

You're still way ahead, simply for bettering yourself.

 

It really sounds like she's too busy to get into a relationship. It also may be that she's really moved on and has closed that chapter in her life.

 

It could be something else completely, but the only thing you can do is continue to stay sober and let her come to you (if she wants to).

 

You put the ball in her court. It's now up to her. Just don't smother her if/when she contacts you again.

 

No texting/calling multiple times after contact. If you send a text or call and she hasn't returned it in a normal amount of time, just wait longer.

 

Let her come to you.

[SteveDC]

Once again, thank you Ronni, and now thank you STH!

 

Great advice from both.

 

Ronni, your earlier comment about us

"not reading the same book"

and

"It's not 'idiotic' to express one's true feelings but, IMO, it IS idiotic to automatically expect that they'll automatically be reciprocated or to then allow oneself to go all to pieces if they're not.

UGH, WHY did I not ask for advice BEFORE starting all this. Haha. It's so true, now that I reflect on it, it makes so much sense. Lesson learned, and honestly, even after today's post, and all of your comments, I already feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders, to just take this all in stride, continue to focus on myself (new job, new move back to D.C., new social network, etc.) and keep rocking on without worrying why my little fairy tale comeback didn't work out as planned.

 

You know, the more I think about this situation holistically, I wonder if I'm more into (not in love, but strong feelings) of the IDEA of her, and not really who she is today.

 

STH: I completely agree with

You put the ball in her court. It's now up to her. Just don't smother her if/when she contacts you again.

and

Let her come to you.

.

 

I find myself faced with two challenges now:

1. DO NOT get hung up if she doesn't call, contact, or come to me (I'm sure she will, and probably just as a friend), but definitely don't reach out. I can easily do that, but also wonder...if I don't ever make efforts moving forward, what if she thinks I don't care..AT ALL (friendzone), and she...literally never tries again? I don't know.
   
2. How do I play it cool when she does reach out, without her thinking I'm giving her the cold shoulder because of her actions. Trust me, I can be a total dick (NOT verbally abusive or rude, just "I don't need you" or "yea, I made a mistake opening up to you, sorry" type of thing. I don't want to come off as cold, rude, hurt or weak, but I also don't want her thinking hearing from her was the highlight of month (which honestly, it isn't, but it is nice to hear her voice).
   

 

I've been a member of LS for one day, and it's been a breath of fresh air to be a part of this community so far. Thanks Ronni and STH, I'll be sure to update as things progress, if for nothing more than to remind myself of how this all started anyway.

[cerridwen]

 

You know, the more I think about this situation holistically, I wonder if I'm more into (not in love, but strong feelings) of the IDEA of her, and not really who she is today.

 

This is very insightful and worth keeping in the forefront of your mind.

 

I have found that the more we separate our stuff (the projections, the fantasies, the fears) from the other person's, he/she begins to naturally descend any pedastal we've unconsciously placed him/her on.

 

Spend more time thinking about this! It can help with the challenges you face below!

 

 

I find myself faced with two challenges now:

1. DO NOT get hung up if she doesn't call, contact, or come to me (I'm sure she will, and probably just as a friend), but definitely don't reach out. I can easily do that, but also wonder...if I don't ever make efforts moving forward, what if she thinks I don't care..AT ALL (friendzone), and she...literally never tries again? I don't know.
   
2. How do I play it cool when she does reach out, without her thinking I'm giving her the cold shoulder because of her actions. Trust me, I can be a total dick (NOT verbally abusive or rude, just "I don't need you" or "yea, I made a mistake opening up to you, sorry" type of thing. I don't want to come off as cold, rude, hurt or weak, but I also don't want her thinking hearing from her was the highlight of month (which honestly, it isn't, but it is nice to hear her voice).
   

 

[Ronni_W]

1. DO NOT get hung up if she doesn't call, contact, or come to me (I'm sure she will, and probably just as a friend), but definitely don't reach out. I can easily do that, but also wonder...if I don't ever make efforts moving forward, what if she thinks I don't care..AT ALL (friendzone), and she...literally never tries again?
   

Steve, that underlined part IS you ALREADY hung-up on if she doesn't call, contact, or come to you! In any case, what if she never tries WHAT???

The answer is: If she doesn't bother to maintain friendly contact, then the friendship is something she knows that she can easily do without. It's not that tough. Friendships also have "shelf lives". It's not that we "don't care" anymore, only that we've moved on. (Is it accurate to say that you "don't care" for whomever of your childhood friends you don't even know where they are on the planet, anymore? -- this ending of this friendship would be the exact same as those.)

 

If she doesn't get or stay in touch, then it also means that she's not wondering AT ALL about if you care or do not care at all. In this case, it'll be that she knows that your caring (or not caring) does not and will not negatively impact her or the rest of her life in any significant way.

 

The part that I bolded is you setting-up yourself to stress and distress yourself until she calls...if she calls...when will she call?...why isn't she calling? (What did I do wrong?) If your expectation is not met, then your resulting disappointment and stress and distress will have been self-induced. Don't do it!!!

 

2. How do I play it cool when she does reach out, without her thinking I'

m

giving her the cold shoulder because of her actions. Trust me, I can be a total dick (NOT verbally abusive or rude, just "I don't need you" or "yea, I made a mistake opening up to you, sorry" type of thing. I don't want to come off as cold, rude, hurt or weak, but I also don't want her thinking hearing from her was the highlight of month (which honestly, it isn't, but it is nice to hear her voice).

You did NOT make a mistake opening up to her. If you tell her that, it would be a lie. Your mistake was having, all by yourself, set unrealistic expectations BEFORE you opened up to her.

Saying, "I don't need you," out of pride or hurt ego...well, if you want to be that guy. (IMO, it's all of cold, rude, weak and makes you sound hurt.)

 

If you want to play it cool (not COLD), then just don't be over-eager, don't ALWAYS be available to her schedule, don't ALWAYS let her choose the what/where/when of your get-togethers. SOMETIMES initiate a get-together. DON'T get in the habit of daily texts/contact. DON'T let her know minute-by-minute details of how things are going or every new thing that happens to you, once you've moved.

 

That is. Just treat her like a "regular" person and a "normal" (guy) friend. THAT'S ALL, so far, that you can expect from her...BASED ON WHAT SHE TOLD YOU. Any other scenarios/expectations dancing around in your head are of your own making, self-created fantasy.

 

Good luck with your move, and wishing you everlasting success with sobriety.

[SteveDC]

Pardon my language, but Gosh Dam*it this forum is awesome : )

 

Thanks Ronni, and cerridwen. I'm learning more by every reply, and I honestly mean, THANK YOU, when I say it. I've been given some great advice here to take into whatever situation may/may not arise. And no, I promise I'll do my best to not get hung up on this. Ronni is clearly spot on.

 

The only thing I'm still left scratching my head about, is Ronni's comment:

SOMETIMES initiate a get-together.

 

While I do agree by doing this, it will make me seem like it's a normal, friendly thing to do, but don't you think reaching out to her (even as soon as a few weeks/month) from now, might make her think I'm still 'trying'? My current plan was simply NO contact. Let her reach out, and if she does, then I know there's at least basic curiosity if nothing else. But if time passes and I hear nothing back, by me trying to initiate something, I'm afraid she might take it as I'm still trying to work an angle of sorts...

 

Ronni, thanks for the kind words regarding my sobriety One day at a time, but I promise anyone who might be trying to quit...each day gets better, and you ARE strong enough. Just believe in yourself, and focus on things that help you grow and improve as a person, and DON'T beat yourself up if you fall down. There's always someone there to help get you back on your feet, and if not right away, your strength will guide you.

[SoThatHappened]

Here's my take, with a couple scenarios and pieces of advice thrown in:

 

- It feels by reading your initial post that you sort-of friend-zoned yourself a bit by being too eager. Women want what they can't have (or at least someone with options), and that's why NC works so well to make them want to reconcile. I don't think you're completely in the friend zone, but if there's no other guy in the mix, she may just want to keep you close, but not too close, until she frees up a little bit.

 

- It seems like she truly does care about you. But she may not be ready to jump into something with you since she spent 4 years with a lush and has only known the new you for a couple weeks. That's a lot to process.

 

So I think your only 2 options here are:

 

1) Complete and total NC. Eh, after this much time and self-improvement, I'm not totally on that boat. It may protect you from getting rejected, but it also may prevent you from creating something with her again when she has more time.

 

2) Be an aloof friend, but flirty. Do a lot of things, invite her to them (group things are best), but don't pester her. She'll see that you want her in your life but that you're still attracted to her and want to be romantic with her. But, don't come on strong. Be the fun, sober, flirty guy to her.

 

It's a tight line to walk, for sure. But I don't see another viable option to really get back together.

 

There's always door #3 too: Find another girl.

[Ronni_W]

The only thing I'm still left scratching my head about, is Ronni's comment:

SOMETIMES initiate a get-together.

While I do agree by doing this, it will make me seem like it's a normal, friendly thing to do, but don't you think reaching out to her (even as soon as a few weeks/month) from now, might make her think I'm still 'trying'?

No...YOU'LL think that she's thinking that because it will be YOUR motive for doing it. The meaning that SHE will give to it is NOT the same as the meaning you will give it...or even the meaning that you WANT HER to give to it. (You JUST went through this, during your last round of interactions with her...thinking that you "know for sure", or can guess (quite accurately?) what she's feeling, what she'll do, how she'll interpret something, etc.)

 

In her head, is going on more to the effect of, "I already told him I'm not interested so, if he is sane and rational and reasonable, then he will stop 'trying' for anything more with me. So, I know for sure that he's just being a friend and is not 'trying'."

Now, sure, that's just ME guessing...but why didn't you think she'd be thinking along these lines, instead of fearing that she'd think you're still 'trying'? Given what she told you, doesn't what I'm guessing seem more likely than what you're guessing? (Yikes! Did all of that make sense? )

 

But. To get back to your question. When I said, "SOMETIMES initiate a get-together," yes, I did mean way down the road. AFTER you've moved, AFTER she's called any number of times (during which you did NOT act over-eager), AFTER you're clear that there's no romance happening. Only THEN, initiate a get-together OCCASIONALLY...still not in any over-eager way.

 

On the other side, Steve. It comes across that you're setting-up yourself for heartache on this one. (because) It really doesn't sound as if you heard that she's not romantically interested in you. For this reason, I do agree with you that, from your side, NO contact is your best bet. Even just leaving it open for her to contact you, you're still in harm's way, IMO, based on how things are coming across.

 

When one of your guy friends gets in touch or "reaches out" to you, do you get all excited because, "Hey! At least he has some 'basic curiosity' about me"??? Do you contact your friends because you have "basic curiosity" about them? See...that's NOT how (platonic) friends think about contacting or being contacted by (platonic) friends.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Ronni_W

[SteveDC]

STH: You're the first person to actually put a positive outcome on this for me, and while of course it put a smile on my face - YOU'RE DANGEROUS Haha. Kidding, it's great advice, and regardless of the responses, you all are giving sound advice for only having an honest, accurate, and of course my account on the whole story. I think Ronni has consistently done a good job of trying to grind it in my head that I'm playing all of this out based on what I think, vs. what actually is.

 

Ronni, great stuff as usual, and thank you for helping clear that up for me.

AFTER you've moved, AFTER she's called any number of times (during which you did NOT act over-eager), AFTER you're clear that there's no romance happening. Only THEN, initiate a get-together OCCASIONALLY...still not in any over-eager way.

= advice received, and followed.

 

I also think this is smart as well:

Even just leaving it open for her to contact you, you're still in harm's way, IMO, based on how things are coming across.

....but how do I NOT leave it open for her to contact me? I wonder if I'm thinking of this too literally, but I'm not going to block her number, etc.? If she calls, I think purposely not answering and getting back to her a week or two later, might look as though I'm still hurt from her original responses, vs. just sliding into the casual friendly relationship...

 

Thanks again you two. I definitely appreciate this wonderful insight : )

[Ronni_W]

....but how do I NOT leave it open for her to contact me? I wonder if I'm thinking of this too literally, but I'm not going to block her number, etc.? If she calls, I think purposely not answering and getting back to her a week or two later, might look as though I'm still hurt from her original responses, vs. just sliding into the casual friendly relationship...

Yep...that's the big problem, isn't it? OTHER THAN you're going to get yourself into a whole heap o' emotional mess, there's no logical reason to block her.

I think...you don't need to "slide into" a casual friendly relationship with her...because you are already thus slud. You ALREADY HAVE a casual friendly relationship. SHE is too otherwise-preoccupied for anything else. A casual friendly relationship is ALL she has to give you...and she already gave it to you.

 

Steve, YOU ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS GOT THAT, IN HER ESTIMATION AND ASSESSMENT, SHE CAN COMFORTABLY GIVE YOU RIGHT NOW.

(What more can you possibly expect to get? Not asking what you WANT; asking what you think you should reasonably be expecting at this point in HER life?)

 

Personally, I think purposely ignoring/not responding for a week or two is just a juvenile thing to do -- not that I'm saying you'd do it. In your situation, it also won't solve the long-term issue nor, I can't imagine, will it be very satisfying for you on any level. At the same time...I also don't think you'd be able to manage it

 

Am I reading it right that you are adamant in your refusal to be really firm in just commanding your brain to forget about any romantic chances with her?

[SteveDC]

Ronni, I'm not going to focus on most of your post, because I don't disagree with any of it. Therefore, I'll respond to your question at the end, and give you a little more background as to why I still have this small feeling that IN TIME (hell, a year or more), they're might still be a chance. Yes, I realize at this moment, that's simply foolish for me to think, but here's my reasoning.

 

Additional background, potentially validating my response to your question:

As I mentioned, I'm 31. We met when we were both 25 (same age, two months apart). She's originally from Kiev (Ukraine), but is now a citizen, and has been here in the states for about a decade. She moved here with her then husband, whom she was still very much with when we met. However, they had problems from the start. When I met her, I was literally just a customer at her bar, who was just in awe of her beauty, charm, and overall how she carried herself with such class and elegance, without being impressed by money or physical things. Her restaurant was on my walk home each day from work. I was two years into my career, obviously drank back then, and would see her once a week for my usual 2-3 martinis (or whatever I was feeling the evening). She wasn't into me at all when we first met. In fact, before I knew she was married, I made a few friendly advances towards her, and was clearly shut down. Point being, during our first year of knowing each other, we knew quite a lot about each others lives, yet had never even met for coffee (she would always turn me down for even something as simple as coffee. She was still married, so fair enough?). I would show up at her work after a long day at my job, she served me, and we would talk every week about everything and anything under the sun (once we got comfortable with each other, which took several months). I watched (and helped her), finally break up with her husband (obviously now ex husband) during that first year of her and I knowing each other. Once she finally moved out, and they separated, within two weeks, we became intimate with each other, and two months later, were officially a couple. That lasted for two years, then we broke up in Paris when she found a half bottle of vodka in my bag, thinking it was joke (since we had just talked about a week prior to going to France). Point being, she wasn't into to me...for a year. She made that clear, yet I kept coming back every week. Eventually, she did fall for me, and I for her (although I was in love with her, even with a single date outside of her work at that time). Had our relationship lasted a month or two, I would suggest I was simply a rebound from her breakup, but a solid two year relationship, makes me think it was much deeper than that. I can recall, and list countless things that made me think I was different (not necessarily better) than her ex. "I've never in my life, been so comfortable with a man than with you, Steve" or "I've never been able to just be myself, and not feel trapped or have so many expectations put on me. You are so emotionally kind and gentle with me, that I've always hoped to find a man like that" etc. etc. I'm sure she's said similar things when in love with an ex, or perhaps someone even recently she might have seen. I don't pretend I'm special, at the same time, back then, her comments were so solidifying regarding our relationship, I thought even after we broke up, we would always stay close for years to come. Hell, she thought I was going to ask her to marry me in Paris (which I hadn't planned on it), which later I found out from her two best friends, she would've said yes (this was the summer of 2011 - we were both 28). We even talked fondly of how many children we each wanted, baby names, etc. It was a mix of good fun, and actual seriousness...anyway, I appreciate you reading even this far : )

 

Why this additional background story/detail?

She like/cared for me FAR less back then, and we ended up having a solid two year relationship that I ruined. Now, I know for sure she cares for me more than she did back then, which makes me think that anything's possible. It's NOT possible right now, or even anytime in the near future, which she's made very clear to me, and we've seen throughout my posts. During our last conversation, I made it very clear to her I DO NOT want to rekindle any type of relationship from the past, but simply see if we're compatible after the changes we've both made for ourselves in the past couple of years.

 

So, Ronni, to answer your question of:

Am I reading it right that you are adamant in your refusal to be really firm in just commanding your brain to forget about any romantic chances with her?

While I suggest you think I'm foolish for doing so (and I would probably agree with you), I've had four serious relationships since I was a kid (teenager - 18), have been through some rough times like everyone else, but one thing I am not is a hopeless romantic (although, yes, I realize I sound like one right now). I'm a practical guy, a realist, and usually don't attempt something unless I have a very logical reason. Therefore, I wouldn't suggest I'm adamant in my refusal, but I wouldn't have even a glimer of hope if there wasn't some data in the past to back up that there might, some day, be a chance. I promise, I don't lose sleep over it, haha, but I would be lying if I said I don't think about what our life could've been, had I put the bottle down 4 years ago, and started a life with her...and I don't think it's too late, but I also have realized my chances are very, very slim. I think after all of my writing, all of these wonderful and insightful comments, the hardest thing for me to accept is: I'm finally thinking clearly, have matured in ways she wished I had in the past, am far more confident, healty, my career is still going strong, and I'm ready to truly settle down with someone and put in the effort to make it work. I believe the man I am today, was the man she was hoping I would turn into in time. Yet, she's less attracted to me now, than when I was far more flawed, clouded head, and cared more about my own personal interests than her. Logically speaking, I simply can't make sense of it.

 

Does that help? Ronni, can I pay you to be my therapist? haha

 

Thanks again for all of your incredibly helpful insight : ) I love this place (LS)

Edited October 30, 2014 by SteveDC

[Ronni_W]

Steve,

Yes, somewhat helpful...thanks for writing all of it...though I suspect it was also a fun exercise, yes?

Full disclosure: I also have a soul mate in my past, whom I met while he was tending bar at a restaurant. What is it with these bloody bartenders, huh?

...give you a little more background as to why I still have this small feeling that IN TIME (hell, a year or more), they're might still be a chance.

<snipped>

While I suggest you think I'm foolish for doing so ... but one thing I am not is a hopeless romantic. I'm a practical guy, a realist, and usually don't attempt something unless I have a very logical reason. Therefore, I wouldn't suggest I'm adamant in my refusal, but I wouldn't have even a glimer of hope if there wasn't some data in the past to back up that there might, some day, be a chance. I promise, I don't lose sleep over it, haha, but I would be lying if I said I don't think about what our life could've been, had I put the bottle down 4 years ago, and started a life with her...and I don't think it's too late, but I also have realized my chances are very, very slim.

No, you don't come across as either a foolish or a hopeless romantic. Not that there's anything wrong with that, either. Full disclosure: I am both of those things.

 

Did I get this more-or-less right: In your head, the next year is going to play out more-or-less like that first year when she was still married and you were just a regular at her bar? Which is fine; why couldn't it happen like that, give or take a few details?

 

Except, at that time, you did not have this added...what is it?...mutual history, to possibly cloud your good judgment and distort your perceptions/interpretations of actual incidents and events between you two, as they transpire.

 

Lemme try it this way. Of course you have a chance IN TIME. But how are you going to stay sane and reasonable, and not become a giant, over-eager, impatient wuss in the meantime? (Oh yeah...you might just need me as your "therapist" -- I get it now )

I mean, if you can act like a sane, rational, sophisticated, self-managed, SMART person (when you're with her, at least) for the next 12-or-so months, then I'd say your chances would actually be pretty good

It just really means staying in her life in a positive and healthy way, and not doing ditzy things like text kisses or being overly flirty/sexual...being cool AND warm, romantically interested on the inside AND platonic on the outside. Can you find the proper balance? WITHOUT making yourself feel crazy on the inside OR act crazy on the outside? For a year, give or take???

 

Do you have it in your head that you might get into a different relationship while you're playing your waiting game? What if SHE gets in a relationship while you're patiently waiting?

AND. Are you perfectly okay right now, to spend a year like this and then have it not turn out the way you're desiring it to, and envisioning it might?

 

At the same time. A year is not a long time to wait for True Love. So...go for it...why not? Just stay sane and realistic about it, yes?

 

Hugs. You're fun to 'chat' with. Thanks for that. (She'd be dumb, IMO, to NOT choose you. But you know that already, I strongly suspect.)

[SoThatHappened]

STH: You're the first person to actually put a positive outcome on this for me, and while of course it put a smile on my face - YOU'RE DANGEROUS

Good! It's also making you think beyond the usual, non-stop preaching of NC here.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm an NC'er and a hard-core one right now. I'm resiting apologizing for hurting a long-term ex (the relationship needed to stop), and I also have been in NC with the girl who broke my heart 5 months ago... even when she's sent half a dozen breadcrumbs since then. The last one, flat-out apologizing to me and telling me I'm heavy on her mind.

 

That being said, I'm not a sheep, and I don't give advice just because everyone else is blindly giving it.

 

Your situation is somewhat unique. It's not the usual "he/she dumped me, should I contact them?"

 

You survived alcoholism. You became a different person. You put your balls out there (although maybe you should have only put one of them out there) and you reconnected with a former flame.

 

There are no ill-feelings between the two of you.

 

Hope can be dangerous, but at the same time, people regret what they DIDN'T do more than what they DID do in life.

 

I don't want to tell you to go for it, because right now I think that you will just likely push her away. Even if it's not a combative push, she may just keep you at more than arm's length because she's not where you are in desiring a relationship.

 

Just tell her you respect her decision, that you hope things could be rekindled if not now but possibly in the future, and that you'll back off.

 

I'm also becoming more of an advocate for my previous door #3: finding a new girl.

[SteveDC]

Well, Ronni, I think we've just high-jacked this thread and made it a conversation between the two us, which I'm a) perfectly fine with and b) hopefully we're not breaking LS rules? Oh well, it's a free country (sorry, countries. Ugh, I LOVE Canada and Canadians. Tonight, we win)

 

I'm enjoying this chat as well, because you've known me for all of 24 hours, and are calling me on my sh*t left and right

 

In reply:

though I suspect it was also a fun exercise, yes?

I hate you...

 

What is it with these bloody bartenders, huh?

Easy: It's the nature of the job. They serve us drinks, as we quietly let our guard down, losing our logical inhibitions. We're happy to self loath and talk about our problems...to a complete stranger (who doesn't like talking about themselves?). With bartenders, we skip all the intro bullsh*t, and get to the core of our problems, and they're happy to listen if you tip well. They're happy to open up to us, because they probably think we're not even listening, but if we're interested in said bartender, we are listening - and quite clearly. And we've learned just as much about them, as they did us, while not even have to get them drunk first Plus, there's something rather sexy about the whole "serving" aspect of it. They start by serving us, and if all goes well in time, we return the favor in other creative ways (Whoa!! TMI !!!!) haha.

 

Full disclosure: I am both of those things.

Which is probably why you give such thoughtful and solid advice. You're both experienced, and clearly wise.

 

Did I get this more-or-less right: In your head, the next year is going to play out more-or-less like that first year when she was still married and you were just a regular at her bar? Which is fine; why couldn't it happen like that, give or take a few details?

Somewhat? I started drowning my sorrows, anxiety and stress in the drink around 24. My professional drinking career spanned about 6 years. Now that I've burried that in my past, and the clarity of my current life and future is apparent, one of the most important things I've come to terms with is...I deserve to be happy. And honestly, that means with OR without her in my life. Of course I would prefer the latter, but the days of me showing up week after week after week, hoping for the attention I dreamed of from her, are in the past. While I feel more youthful, and energetic at 31 than I did at 25 (hungover during client meetings, and mildly drunk at night = exhausted), I'm also not getting any younger. There is no sense in living life miserable, if you have the freedom and choice to be truly happy. Of course, I've also realized that having someone to share that true content and happiness is far more fulfilling, waiting around for something that might never happen, to actually happen, is a waste of time, and ENERGY (also exhausting). I actually don't want it to play out like it did the first time around, which is exactly why I came back into her life, and straight up told her how I felt. I don't want to beat around the bush, and be all cute about it. "Hey, I miss you. Listen, BAM, here goes" kind of thing.

 

Except, at that time, you did not have this added...what is it?...mutual history, to possibly cloud your good judgment and distort your perceptions/interpretations of actual incidents and events between you two, as they transpire.

Spot on. Silly me, thinking that "we only remember the good memories", when in reality, you definitely (at least I do), remember some of the bad ones as well. That was 3-4 years ago, too. But you're right. We were starting with a fresh canvas back then, we younger and possibly more curious, whereas now, the stakes are higher, life gets a little more serious as we age, and we definitely already have a painting which clearly didn't sell at Christie's. We would have to paint over it, and that process might get ugly.

 

So the question is, can I keep my emotions to myself and not let it get the best of me? I think I can, and for the record, I FULLY intend on being as social as I was before, dating, and seeing if maybe she's not the one? However, I've been doing that for three years now, and every...f-ing time...I always compare this beautiful, smart, interesting, new date...to her. Comparing women isn't the answer, but how else can do I judge if it's right or wrong? I think that's my answer of suggest, NO, I'm not going to sit and wait like a lost child, or puppy waiting for his owner, but I also don't want to lose her for good, and stop all communication as if we never existing. My challenge moving forward is finding the right balance, so it works for me, without pushing/pressuring her. She's clearly lost that comfort level with me, which came so easily in the past, and until I can gain her trust, and comfort again, there is no chance. However, like the first time around, I'm very aware that this is no easy task, and will require a tremendous amount of patience (and time), and I'd be crazy not to "explore" or "have fun" *cough cough*, in the meantime, while keeping that part of my life somewhat private (and tasteful) from her.

 

I'm promise I'm not on a wild hunt here, but I do think I have unfinished business with her, and a potential relationship that could trump what we had in the past. But again, this is all in my head, and she clearly doesn't feel the same way.

 

Hugs to you as well, Ronni You've been rather amazing in all of your advice, analytical and accurate suggestions, and overall straightforwardness, while still being rather sweet I respect people who call me out my sh*t, and not many can do that.

 

She'd be dumb, IMO, to NOT choose you. But you know that already, I strongly suspect.

Well...DUH. Haha. Nah, she clearly has her reasons, which I have to respect and let go of. Also, letting my ego get the best of me...won't help a thing.

 

I'll be sure to update this thread (and beg for more advice from you when the time comes), if we get that far, and if this goes anywhere. If not, you'll find me over "Friends and Lovers", as I'll be taking out my frustration on some poor little intern at my new job (KIDDING...kinda serious ; ) In time (key word), we'll see...

Edited October 30, 2014 by SteveDC

[Ronni_W]

Steve,

Everything in your last post sounds reasonable and sane and logical. It's different than when you started posting here, lo, those many moons ago

To be clear, I did mean AFTER she's taken whatever time she wants and needs...IN TIME, she'd be dumb, etc., etc.

 

Insofar as trying to maintain the levels of (platonic) friendship, support, interest for however long you'll be required to do that, STH's concern ought be taken as a major caution:

...because right now I think that you will just likely push her away. Even if it's not a combative push, she may just keep you at more than arm's length because she's not where you are in desiring a relationship.

You had already been told that your recent actions were over-the-top/crazy, so I didn't feel the need to double-wham you on that. For example, it WAS okay to call her at work when you WERE her b/f. Meaning, going forward, don't do anything which actions/words/gestures are the domain of an SO; don't take b/f liberties.

In any case, it sounds like you have all of that nicely sorted out in your own head...right now. (Maybe tape a copy of the pertinent parts of your most-recent post to your fridge and mirrors? .)

 

Your other possibility is that your bartender/soulmate's role in your life is the same as mine's was, in mine. I had years and years and YEARS of angst around him, with him more out of my life than ever having really been in it. I've come to see it as a sort of "karmic contract", where he showed up in my life at the exact right time that I needed to make a BIG LIFE CHANGE. And that was all. Once I'd done what I needed to do for my own self and soul, it was "contract 100% fulfilled".

I also did "go back", as it were, about five years later...no, actually, HE came to me...and it absolutely was not the same at all. Even though I'd been heavily plagued all that time, about the 'what ifs' and 'why nots?', and feeling that something was still incomplete. It wasn't. It was all done and dusted...other than my own thoughts and feelings, but which could only get sorted out after my five-year-later reconnecting with him. But actually it was only that I had not COMPLETED all the little steps in that BIG life change-thing. He wasn't part of that (not in his "contract"); I had to figure it out and do it on my own.

 

Does that make sense? I'm not saying that's your situation. But it's okay to not sweat it too much. I think at the end of the day, you can't really do it "wrong"...it's going to work out exactly as it's supposed to work out.

 

Again, my very best to you.

[SteveDC]

I promise I'm not trying to bump this thread, and this update isn't anything special, but I felt like writing anyway, as I enjoy the conversations between everyone that's commented thus far.

 

Since I first walked back in to her life about a month ago, we've been initiating contact a few times a week. Since I've employed the NC rule after my last visit to her, it's been a week thus far, and no contact from either. I know, a week is nothing, yet I feel like that first week or two could be a sign for what to expect (not to expect) moving forward. I also could be wrong. Anyway, nothing too much to see here, just felt like posting a simple update.

[Ronni_W]

Hey Steve,

Always good to read you Thanks for the update.

Tom Petty sure was right when he sang, "The waiting is the hardest part", was he not? (Did I just age myself something aweful??? )

 

Yes...leave it at least another couple of weeks (IMO), and then use your wise judgment and trusted intuition to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

And, once you've done that (after ANOTHER two weeks -- just so's we're clear ), then give her a call. Because you can get better sensory info during a live chat, than from some characters-on-a-screen text.

 

I hope you're managing to stay (relatively) sane and in command of you, in the meantime.

[SteveDC]

Thanks, Ronni : )

 

I suspected I would get some good advice from you before others, as you're clearly a huge asset to this community.

 

No, you didn't age yourself, lol, as who doesn't like Tom Petty and his timeless lyrics (see, timeless means we don't have to put a date on anything).

 

My original intent was to give it 30 days. 30 days seems to be the magic number when it comes to circadian cycles perhaps. My only concern with 30 days was, "if I haven't heard from her by then, regardless of how busy anyone is, it's a sure sign that there's nothing left". I'm guessing of course, but I feel the longer I wait, the longer she'll forget that I actually care. And for someone whom I visited weekly for entire year, before she finally accepted me and realized how much I cared and was committed (at times stubborn) to even going on a date with her back then, I wonder if that same behavior is necessary? I'm not going to try that approach out right now, but she always seemed to be the type of "OK, so you love me? Prove it!"...and I did. The NC rule is the opposite of the aforementioned determined approach of proving to her that I want to be a part of her life again. Regardless, NC is the plan, and I'm sticking to it

 

I'll leave it to another couple/few weeks, although I start my new job next Monday, and am curious if she remembered that I told her, or if she even cares. She seemed super excited when I told her about it a couple weeks ago. Also, I'll be moving back to town in a few weeks, so we'll see.

 

I think the previous advice you gave of "focus on yourself, start the new job, move, and see if she's interested in any of it" (something like that), is good. However, giving it another two/three weeks - I can definitely do that. Also, all of the great advice you (and others) have gave - I can't let you down and let her/this get the best of me, so I'm staying strong. Keeping busy always helps...

 

Thanks, Ronni and hope you had a good week since we last spoke

 

OH! That reminds me...I reread one of your comments earlier, and it brought up a question:

I also did "go back", as it were, about five years later...no, actually, HE came to me...and it absolutely was not the same at all

So he came back into your life, and it worked out? I wonder how similar your situation was with what I just tried doing with her (which didn't go so well)...

Edited November 2, 2014 by SteveDC

[Ronni_W]

I suspected I would get some good advice from you before others, as you're clearly a huge asset to this community.

I know...it seems like I'm ALWAYS here, right? But that's not really the truth of it. I do very much appreciate your kind words; thanks for taking the time to say so, Steve. It's a great community, is the bottom line.

 

Thirty days is a good number, too. But you said: My only concern with 30 days was, "if I haven't heard from her by then, regardless of how busy anyone is, it's a sure sign that there's nothing left".

 

I have friends, male and female, who know FOR SURE that if I don't contact them for 30+ days it does NOT mean that there's "nothing left" in our friendship. Same on my side...for example, I haven't heard from Dave for ages. But I know that he STILL loves me and is STILL my (platonic!!!) friend.

 

That she doesn't feel romantic towards you NOW ALREADY is that there is "nothing left". That tank of hers is empty. NOW. ALREADY. AT THIS TIME. Thirty days or 60, is not going to change that. You yourself said, "IN TIME (hell, a year or more)" -- that's, er, around 365 days.

So he came back into your life, and it worked out? I wonder how similar your situation was with what I just tried doing with her (which didn't go so well)...

No, the opposite. We dicked around for a little bit -- very sporadically -- and at some point it came to me that I couldn't see WTF I had seen in him during our first go-round, five years prior. But, the first time around, I had been COMPLETELY fascinated, obsessed and possessed. To the point of needing therapists and Akashic readers and all kinds of craziness. Fun? WOW! (No, not so much. Just craziness.)