Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[Rainbowlove]

Okay then.

 

How about this? She seems to be the kind of person who keeps her options open.

 

Much better

 

You took one thing she said wrong and ran with it.

 

Instead of seeing all the things she said right, which outweighed the one comment that seemed blurry.

 

As someone who is a WS and who has had to end an affair, I'm sure on my way out I didn't say all the right things either, but I'm out and I've been out for 17 months and counting the rest of my life.

 

She told him she was choosing her husband and she was commiting to her marriage, she told him she loved her husband, she told him she was wrong for the affair and to have no more contact with her.

 

If she's been no contact and is remorseful, it's a good start to reconciliation regardless of what she said at the time she ended it.

 

Bottom line, she ended it.

[Marchhare]

I don't think that much has changed from early on but here is the current story.

 

- they didn't have sex very often

 

I asked about the sex details on DDay and the details have never changed. I gave her the ultimatum on DDay to give me the full story or she could leave. When I confronted her I let her know I had hired a PI and she did not know what I knew and did not know. I told her if her story matched then I would consider holding off on the divorce. So I feel like I got most of the truth that day. The things I did not get were feelings, lack of love for me, true feelings about him and stuff like that. She admitted on DDay that they had sex twice and did not use protection. She told me she was relieved it was over that day.

 

The first time they has sex she agreed to meet him at an empty house that was for sale. Prior to that they has talked a total of 4.5 hours over 7 phone calls. They met at the house exactly 30 days after the first contact. She had phone sex one time prior to this meeting and exchanged pictures but in her mind she felt like she could control the situation the day she met him. She says she really just wanted to meet in person and talk and get to know him and did not think it would happen in an empty house. She admits he told her prior to this meeting that he wanted to have sex.

 

She says she was not to the point of wanting him sexually that day but he was aggressive from the minute he walked in. She did try to minimally resist but gave in without much resistance. She fully admits it would have happened another day had it not happened that day more than likely because he was so aggressive. The OM was convicted of rape in his twenties (my PI gave me his rap sheet). She did not know his history at the time and she has never brought this up but had she resisted I think we would be dealing with a rape instead of an affair. I'm not making an excuse for her, she readily agreed to sex that day and we both know that.

 

The second time was 22 days and 6 phone calls later and they agreed to meet at a motel and his routine did not vary. She said he was very rough and did not really care about her needs but she just wanted to be with him.

- no orgasms for her, in fact very little enjoyment

- only became sexual because he wanted to

- he was aggressor / pursuer

- whatever your favorite act/position, didn't do it

 

I believe that all these are true statements. She says she had an orgasm once during phone sex but not actually during sex with him. She is very orgasmic normally and normally does not last very long with me before the first one. She does not need clitoral stimulation but she needs to feel emotionally close. There have been many times in the past after normal marital fights that sex a day or two later she does not orgasm. I attribute this to her emotional connection and her feelings being more important than anything physical.

 

She was caught off guard the first time they had sex and she says she did not orgasm. She has described in detail what they did and both times he had a routine that he went through. Knowing her and what she likes I'd be really surprised that she orgasm-ed based on the details. They only used one position(that we have never used) and he did not last very long. It was him on his knees with her legs straight up holding them by her ankles or over his shoulders. Not a lot of intimacy and she said they never kissed during sex. It was more "porn" style sex rather than intimate. She gave him a BJ about 30 minutes later when he forced her head down and he orgasm-ed a second time. She freely admits they did not use protection and feels completely stupid about that decision and still does not understand her thinking. Other than to say she was so completely ****ed up during this time.

 

- sex continued to keep him interested

 

This is exactly what she said. Having all the texts makes me think this is true, he was always asking to meet for sex and she was always wanting to talk/text. After sex the first time she wanted to text/talk even more and he was a lot less attentive and kept pushing for in person meetings. (imagine that)

 

She tried to break it off after the first time they had sex and he responded by telling her he loved her and could not live without her. She bought it and was not able to end things. She also goggled "how to delete you facebook page" two days after the first sexual encounter.

 

- it was only sex, no real feelings involved

 

This is not true. She admits that she was deeply infatuated with him and at the time she felt like she was in love and she craved the attention she was getting. She says he knew all the right things to say and she did fall hard for him emotionally. It was not a physical attraction at all and the OM is not financially successful(lives in a small mobile home) and is a manual laborer so there was no power thing going on. He also has a small penis and yes I saw the pictures.

 

Keep in mind when the call took place she was deeply infatuated with him (she thought it was love at the time) but more importantly she thought he loved her deeply. He told her from the onset he felt a deep connection with her and chemistry(just a pickup line). We all know it was just sex for him and really did not have an emotional attachment being a serial cheater. But she felt like she needed to break it off and let him down easy and she apologized over twenty times. Also keep in mind her world had just exploded two days earlier on DDay and she was very emotional.

 

When I shared portions of the transcript here last October I was devastated and looking back I was not really able to see the good things in that call until rereading it again a couple of weeks ago now that my emotions have died down. It's telling what was totally missing from the call. There was never any discussion of a future without me at all by either party. She never said "I'd rather be with you" or anything close.

 

One big thing that I see now is that the call was 75 minutes long but a large portion was him talking about his wife not finding out, how to prevent that and talking about what he was going to do to me if she did. And her trying to talk him out of that violence. Other large portions were them talking about how I was able to catch them, starting marriage counseling and him starting a new job. Interspersed in all that garbage were the random damaging comments that I posted here.

 

I had not read the transcript since I posted here since last October on the advise of my IC. A couple of weeks ago I pulled it out and read it. I believe I was blinded by pain before and did not want to see the some of the good things from that call that I can see now. I did not share statements she made throughout the call such as these:

 

I told you I loved him

You know I'm going to be committed to work this out

It's absolutely awful I don't know if I'm going to survive this

I've never given him any reason not to trust me until now but I've proved that he can't trust me

We just have to not have any communication

I'll probably never see you again unless this completely falls apart

I haven't been on facebook, I may not ever get back on

like I said, I've lost everything

we just have to not have any communication so I can move forward

But I do have to take the blame for it

I've just never done anything wrong, when I told you you’re my only lie that's the truth, you're my only lie

I don't need "I'm sorry" to be the last thing we say to each other

It's going to be alright were just going to go back to life the way it was before 3 months ago (time frame corroborates her story of the start)

but I'm not promiscuous (crying)

I said OK, I don't have any contact with him anymore I told you I wouldn’t, then he said I could call you and tell you goodbye.

I was just about to call you back and tell you I need our goodbye to be a solid one (after the call dropped)

I've got to give it a chance to work

well I'm not going to use your email unless I just can’t handle it

Ive got to move on, get past this and give it a chance to work

 

A lot of these comments help me to see that she was serious about ending it. I really could not believe those good comments were there because all I remember when I read it in October were the bad comments. They help me see that she was doing what she promised and that was to end it and go no contact.

 

So that's the story, it helps to share it.

 

 

Based on this earlier post italicized below I believe you are deluding yourself:

 

My wife admitted to doing some things with her lover that she has never been able to do with me. They had phone sex multiple times, they exchanged naked pictures and tried a lot of different positions when they were together, etc. Her oral skills went from OK, to amazing since her affair. And her sex drive is off the charts high.

 

Look at your bolded text in the,quoted text above and compare to what was written earlier. Who is she fooling?

 

So by her truthful admission in only having sex TWO times with AP and a single session of oral sex she is now an AMAZING oral Goddess?? Wow, a fast learner don't you agree? What's wrong with this picture? In the quoted post above you mentioned "legs up" and like a porn film. In this earlier post, multiple positions. AP had some stamina for TWO times, and she didn't enjoy it, but after this disgusting affair what was it, oh yeah her sex drive is off the charts. Makes perfect sense she did not enjoy her two sessions with AP

Right........

 

VBM regardless what you say, your WS is lying, and you choose to ignore it.

 

Glad AP taught her well for you. Get your head out of the sand man.

 

Oh to answer the question who is she fooling? Look in the mirror for your answer.

[merrmeade]

Makes perfect sense she did not enjoy her two sessions with AP

Yeah, this is the hardest part for me to let go. The different stuff he did afterward, the techniques and skill, fingers, etc.

 

THAT is disrespect without remedy.

[Mazerati]

Yeah, this is the hardest part for me to let go. The different stuff he did afterward, the techniques and skill, fingers, etc.

 

THAT is disrespect without remedy.

 

Sadly, i agree Merrmeade. Complete disrespect without remedy. While the post by Marchhare was rather abrupt, it points out that WS was probably not fully transparent. For her to do a 180 and now be a willing and giving partner sexually, where prior to the affair she would not do things with VBM that she gladly did with AP, and forgive for saying, but to paraphrase VBM, she learned a trick or two.

I have my doubts that she is 100% truthful, maybe 75%. I don't believe she did not enjoy herself, nor do I believe it was only two times. The pictures stunned me how casual she was to share that with AP along with her newfound sexual knowledge of multiple techniques, new positions, and the "nasty" things that prior to were forbidden.. Only twice??? Not likely.

VBM does hold her accountable, he does consider the AP a predator in his WS defense, but who is holding VBM accountable? He is withholding to 'protect' his WS information on her AP. I think that is a mistake. Neither VBM or his WS are transparent, and in the end, it will whether by an argument or more discovery this withheld info will come out and damage or do irreparable harm to their marriage.

In the end, it matters not what I or any one but VBM thinks about his WS transparency. If he wishes to believe her fully and completely, it is his choice. But as has been stated, this reconciliation is in its infancy, and based on VBM's own posts, I fear for him.

I truly hope they reconcile, but after reading more, I think VBM has blinders on, and will not see the truth unless it is his truth. Denial, fear is very powerful. The betrayal stunned him, but the quick reconcile has stunned him more, IMHO.

Hoping for the best whatever the outcome.

 

Maz

Edited March 29, 2015 by Mazerati
.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Based on this earlier post italicized below I believe you are deluding yourself:

 

My wife admitted to doing some things with her lover that she has never been able to do with me. They had phone sex multiple times, they exchanged naked pictures and tried a lot of different positions when they were together, etc. Her oral skills went from OK, to amazing since her affair. And her sex drive is off the charts high.

 

Look at your bolded text in the,quoted text above and compare to what was written earlier. Who is she fooling?

 

So by her truthful admission in only having sex TWO times with AP and a single session of oral sex she is now an AMAZING oral Goddess?? Wow, a fast learner don't you agree? What's wrong with this picture? In the quoted post above you mentioned "legs up" and like a porn film. In this earlier post, multiple positions. AP had some stamina for TWO times, and she didn't enjoy it, but after this disgusting affair what was it, oh yeah her sex drive is off the charts. Makes perfect sense she did not enjoy her two sessions with AP

Right........

 

VBM regardless what you say, your WS is lying, and you choose to ignore it.

 

Glad AP taught her well for you. Get your head out of the sand man.

 

Oh to answer the question who is she fooling? Look in the mirror for your answer.

 

They had phone sex and exchanged naked pictures and no she has not ever been able to do that with me. She is more than willing to do either with me now if I were to ask. Her explanation is that she was struggling with being a a sexual being after being a mother for so long. The OM asked for things and she wanted to give that to him so he would keep giving her the attention.

 

Her oral skills also are off the charts high but I attribute that to really wanting to please me not "practice makes perfect" with the OM. There is a level of "giving" during sex that was never there before even though I thought we had great sex before. She was a somewhat selfish lover and that is gone.

 

When I said " tried a lot of different positions when they were together" in one of my earlier posts that was a misunderstanding based on something she said early on. She cleared that up at the time and I don't recall what the misunderstanding was but I know it was not an issue after that. Her story about the details both times they met for sex has not changed except for trivial details. She is completely on-board with taking a polygraph at some point and we plan to do that.

 

Regarding her sex drive being off the charts high: that is not something that is new to her, just that prior to the affair I would have called it normal 75% of the time. But there were often times throughout our marriage when it was very high and around the start of the affair and during it was very high. And there were times during our marriage when it was low and that is also normal. So I don't put much stock into that other than she was horny because of the affair and admits that. For me sex was great during her affair as well and she never distanced herself physically or emotionally. She was having her cake and eating it too.. not something that is rare in affairs.

 

Even though I'd never cheat on her I can see how my sex drive might be ramped up from having sex with another woman. I don't see how that makes her a liar at this point. If she was lying why not lie about protection or anything else incriminating that I could not prove through texts/transcripts?

 

Remember the day I gave her the ultimatum she did not know what I knew and what I did not. She was given the option of telling me everything THAT DAY or divorce. She knew I had a PI and while I did not play my entire hand I showed her partial transcripts and texts messages. She knew I had the dirt and she confessed at that point to everything. Those core details have not changed and she is willing to take the polygraph.

 

So I reject the argument that I have blinders on or I'm somehow being fooled by this woman. I'm a perceptive and emotionally competent person that is not often(or ever?) fooled in business life by someone's true intentions.

 

My FWW is a good person with some flaws and issues that she is willing to work on and change. You need to understand I'm not a saint either, I've never cheated but I have put business and career ahead of her at times. I've said this before, if I made the worst mistake of my life I'd like to think that she would give me a second chance if I promised to change and never make the same choice again.

 

My IC told me early on that to be really happy in life I need to ignore the affair and make the decision to divorce based on how the marriage was before and how it is after. She said in her experience people that make the decision to divorce based solely on the fact that their spouse had an affair often regretted tossing a great relationship based on one poor choice. We had a great life and she agrees. I like the new honesty and openness of this new relationship. So I'm choosing to see where it leads.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Yeah, this is the hardest part for me to let go. The different stuff he did afterward, the techniques and skill, fingers, etc.

 

THAT is disrespect without remedy.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point about: "different stuff he did afterward, the techniques and skill, fingers"?

[VeryBrokenMan]

For her to do a 180 and now be a willing and giving partner sexually, where prior to the affair she would not do things with VBM that she gladly did with AP, and forgive for saying, but to paraphrase VBM, she learned a trick or two.

Not sure where you got that idea from but that is not true. Phone sex and sexting are the only things she was unwilling to do prior and now it's mine for the asking. And she has always been willing to try new sexual things, we were not an inhibited couple by any means.

[Confused48]

With her sex drive somewhat linked to the affair and fluctuating periodically in the past, do you think she may have had other affairs?

 

I also find it astonishing that you choose to ignore what she said to her AP when given the chance to say good bye.

 

I do think you are well advised to ignore all these red flags though, until the polygraph. As long as you do get one, why borrow trouble. Just please, don't take her word for any of this. Get the poly.

[VeryBrokenMan]

With her sex drive somewhat linked to the affair and fluctuating periodically in the past, do you think she may have had other affairs?

 

I also find it astonishing that you choose to ignore what she said to her AP when given the chance to say good bye.

 

I do think you are well advised to ignore all these red flags though, until the polygraph. As long as you do get one, why borrow trouble. Just please, don't take her word for any of this. Get the poly.

 

 

I'm obviously concerned about previous affairs and that is the first question of the polygraph. She wants to take it and when things calm down a little more she will. The polygraph company suggested that I don't insist on having her take it in an emotional state to eliminate her relying on that as an excuse if she fails. They say they do these all the time for cases of infidelity and suggest waiting some time for the most accurate results.

 

The last call is a sticking point with me now and we do need to talk about it at length. But remember the good things that she said in the call:

 

I told you I loved him

You know I'm going to be committed to work this out

It's absolutely awful I don't know if I'm going to survive this

I've never given him any reason not to trust me until now but I've proved that he can't trust me

We just have to not have any communication

I'll probably never see you again unless this completely falls apart

I haven't been on facebook, I may not ever get back on

like I said, I've lost everything

we just have to not have any communication so I can move forward

But I do have to take the blame for it

I've just never done anything wrong, when I told you you’re my only lie that's the truth, you're my only lie

I don't need "I'm sorry" to be the last thing we say to each other

It's going to be alright were just going to go back to life the way it was before 3 months ago (time frame corroborates her story of the start)

but I'm not promiscuous (crying)

I said OK, I don't have any contact with him anymore I told you I wouldn’t, then he said I could call you and tell you goodbye.

I was just about to call you back and tell you I need our goodbye to be a solid one (after the call dropped)

I've got to give it a chance to work

well I'm not going to use your email unless I just can’t handle it

Ive got to move on, get past this and give it a chance to work

 

There were no plans made to contact again just that he could, no talk of a future with him, she said she loved me, was going to be committed to work it out, did not want to have any communication with him and he was her only lie. So a lot of that good stuff offsets the damaging things she said in the same call.

[DKT3]

I'm obviously concerned about previous affairs and that is the first question of the polygraph. She wants to take it and when things calm down a little more she will. The polygraph company suggested that I don't insist on having her take it in an emotional state to eliminate her relying on that as an excuse if she fails. They say they do these all the time for cases of infidelity and suggest waiting some time for the most accurate results.

 

The last call is a sticking point with me now and we do need to talk about it at length. But remember the good things that she said in the call:

 

I told you I loved him

You know I'm going to be committed to work this out

It's absolutely awful I don't know if I'm going to survive this

I've never given him any reason not to trust me until now but I've proved that he can't trust me

We just have to not have any communication

I'll probably never see you again unless this completely falls apart

I haven't been on facebook, I may not ever get back on

like I said, I've lost everything

we just have to not have any communication so I can move forward

But I do have to take the blame for it

I've just never done anything wrong, when I told you you’re my only lie that's the truth, you're my only lie

I don't need "I'm sorry" to be the last thing we say to each other

It's going to be alright were just going to go back to life the way it was before 3 months ago (time frame corroborates her story of the start)

but I'm not promiscuous (crying)

I said OK, I don't have any contact with him anymore I told you I wouldn’t, then he said I could call you and tell you goodbye.

I was just about to call you back and tell you I need our goodbye to be a solid one (after the call dropped)

I've got to give it a chance to work

well I'm not going to use your email unless I just can’t handle it

Ive got to move on, get past this and give it a chance to work

 

There were no plans made to contact again just that he could, no talk of a future with him, she said she loved me, was going to be committed to work it out, did not want to have any communication with him and he was her only lie. So a lot of that good stuff offsets the damaging things she said in the same call.

VBM, I'm sorry but there where future plans, they were conditional but plans none the less.

 

I won't talk to you unless this falls apart

 

I won't use your email unless I can't handle it anymore

 

After my last comments to you about that call, lovin kinda let me have it. Saying that I wouldn't have liked what I read if I could have seen her words to OM when she ended it. She explained that OM was the only person that would re enforce her poor decisions, and she felt she needed that at the time so that she didn't feel like a total monster. But she didn't really feel or believe the things she said to him.

 

Keep in mind that most affair thrive because of the fantasy. Many AP's say and do a lot of things they don't mean or really want to do in order to keep the fantasy alive. Future faking and empty promises.

 

With that said, that call is still very disturbing.

[jbrent890]

VBM, I'm sorry but there where future plans, they were conditional but plans none the less.

 

I won't talk to you unless this falls apart

 

I won't use your email unless I can't handle it anymore

 

After my last comments to you about that call, lovin kinda let me have it. Saying that I wouldn't have liked what I read if I could have seen her words to OM when she ended it. She explained that OM was the only person that would re enforce her poor decisions, and she felt she needed that at the time so that she didn't feel like a total monster. But she didn't really feel or believe the things she said to him.

 

Keep in mind that most affair thrive because of the fantasy. Many AP's say and do a lot of things they don't mean or really want to do in order to keep the fantasy alive. Future faking and empty promises.

 

With that said, that call is still very disturbing.

 

But I feel like that is the one thing Waywards don't understand. Whether they believed what they said or not, they still said it. As James Franco said in Pineapple Express "you can't put Pandora back in the box."

[Mazerati]

 

When I said " tried a lot of different positions when they were together" in one of my earlier posts that was a misunderstanding based on something she said early on. She cleared that up at the time and I don't recall what the misunderstanding was but I know it was not an issue after that. Her story about the details both times they met for sex has not changed except for trivial details. She is completely on-board with taking a polygraph at some point and we plan to do that.

 

This quote is what I was referring to about her 'learning a trick or two'. It's from a post you made very early on. I see here that you have clarified your position on this.

 

So I reject the argument that I have blinders on or I'm somehow being fooled by this woman. I'm a perceptive and emotionally competent person that is not often(or ever?) fooled in business life by someone's true intentions.

 

Perhaps not ever fooled in business, but emotions stack the deck. Please keep yours eyes open, and above all else, trust but verify.

 

I hope the polygraph helps to keep your ship on course. I do truly wish that this works out for you and your hopefully fWS.

 

Maz

[VeryBrokenMan]

VBM, I'm sorry but there where future plans, they were conditional but plans none the less.

 

I won't talk to you unless this falls apart

 

I won't use your email unless I can't handle it anymore

 

After my last comments to you about that call, lovin kinda let me have it. Saying that I wouldn't have liked what I read if I could have seen her words to OM when she ended it. She explained that OM was the only person that would re enforce her poor decisions, and she felt she needed that at the time so that she didn't feel like a total monster. But she didn't really feel or believe the things she said to him.

 

Keep in mind that most affair thrive because of the fantasy. Many AP's say and do a lot of things they don't mean or really want to do in order to keep the fantasy alive. Future faking and empty promises.

 

With that said, that call is still very disturbing.

 

Thanks for those comments. I've read other things that corroborate what she said. They are looking for their affair partner to offer sympathies to what they have been doing because they are not going to get it from anyone else. Or at least to the extent that the affair partner will give it.

 

The call is a problem no doubt. We've talked so much about everything else and have skirted talking about the call but we both need to face it soon. I keep going back to my thinking that the crime was having sex and falling in love with another man(which she denies) and everything else is just details of that crime that really don't matter. I can see how AP's might say things during a time of crisis they don't mean. We are all human and react emotionally sometimes. I know I've said things since the affair that I don't mean at emotional times.

 

A large portion of that last call was the OM talking about how to keep this from his wife and he was very concerned about that. So in looking at the call as a whole the portion of the 75 minutes where they were actually not talking about him and his need to keep his wife out of it was small.

 

I also hold on to the fact that my WW went NC and meant it. She has not had any contact with him at all after that last call and I get a report monthly from my PI. He was active for the first couple of months after and said he felt confident going electronically "passive" because he had no indications of anything. She has also been totally transparent about where she is and leaves no time unaccounted for. Her phone and computer are open books. At this point she would have to be houdini to be in contact with him. And I've said this before, I really don't even think about her cheating again as I'm OK with it either way. Her cheating will never blindside me again, it will just be over and I will be OK.

 

We had a long talk last night after I was triggered by a TV show where they were having phone sex. About 20 seconds into the scene she realized I was triggered and paused the show and said lets talk. We calmly talked for a couple of hours about the phone sex. The first time it happened was a couple of weeks into the "phone call" stage of the affair. He just started in and she said she felt uncomfortable and just went along. I have no way of verifying this of course but my FWW has never been a dirty talker, it makes her very uncomfortable. So I tend to believe that she did not have a sudden character change and turned into someone I would not recognize. She said he did all the talking and she just moaned to get it over with.

 

The second time was a few days after they had sex and was a repeat of the first time. She did not orgasm either time. The last time she had been reading a erotic novel and was amped up before he called and did orgasm. The only orgasm she says she had with him.

 

We also talked about the sex again. She sticks to the story that he was very robotic and had a set routine that he never deviated from. She says the sex was all about him and called him selfish. She said I've never been a selfish lover and she said she was shocked by the difference. She faked when he gave her oral and used his fingers prior to the sex because it was so bad. This guy just does not get how to please a woman and certainly not my wife based on her description. I asked her why she did it a second time and she said she just wanted to be with him and she thought the second time might be better. That is about as honest an answer I think I could ever get.

 

The OM is probably about 300 pound dough boy and has a huge beer belly and slightly shorter than she is. She says there was no physical attraction at all and she was only attracted to the attention he gave her. She told me that when they got together for the first time she was like "what's this going to be when it grows up" referring to his penis. I saw the pictures and he was not at all big in those so I also believe this. When I first saw them I actually could not believe that he would send them as small as he was. I think that is part of his narcissism and he cannot see reality. The fact that he is a fat F&*k did not help his cause in that department I'm sure. He still posts picture after picture of himself on FB so obviously he is very narcissistic and needs that validation on a daily basis.

 

She reiterated that she will never cheat again. She says she knows it beyond any doubt. She said she never wants to feel like she does now and that it was like a catastrophic car accident for her. She has flashbacks and no good feeling about any of it. She hates herself for doing this to our relationship and to me. She hates herself for being so stupid and not seeing him for what he was. She feels like her judgement was impaired by the attention she was getting. She said again that the affair had nothing to do with us and our relationship. She was selfish and was only wanting to feel good and the things he said and the attention felt good. She is earnest and sincere every time she tells me all these things. So I believe her but have my eyes open.

[VeryBrokenMan]

But I feel like that is the one thing Waywards don't understand. Whether they believed what they said or not, they still said it. As James Franco said in Pineapple Express "you can't put Pandora back in the box."

 

Putting it back in the box I think is a process of accepting your WW did some really bad things. The worst of it for me is having sex and falling in love(she still denies) with another person. Hearing those words in the last call were traumatic but not as bad as the visuals of the sex. And the way we resolved those images were to talk about every detail and for me to see him as the loser he is. He cannot compete with me on any level. Evey time we talked about the sex the more I realized it was not the passionate romp that I imagined an affair to be and he is not some good looking stud. When I saw the affair and the OM for what they really were it became easier to forget. I still have flashes of problems with the sex but for the most part I'm healed.

 

So recovery is a process of communication and accepting she was capable of hurting me in unimaginable ways. But I'm certain that she did not intend to get caught so in that regard I can see where she did not intentionally mean to hurt me. This was about her feeling good and her intention was for me to never know. Of course it's a huge betrayal but the intention was to feel good for her own selfish reasons. In the moment she never considered what it would do to us and to me. Selfishness was deep within her core and that has all changed. She does not want to be that person anymore.

 

The bottom line is I had to stop seeing myself as a victim and move on either by divorce or reconciling. I did not want to live in that bad place and be forever stuck in limbo. And today I can say I'm not at all bitter or angry most of the time. I may have flashes that I'm both bitter and angry, but most of the time those feelings are gone.

[aliveagain]

Putting it back in the box I think is a process of accepting your WW did some really bad things. The worst of it for me is having sex and falling in love(she still denies) with another person. Hearing those words in the last call were traumatic but not as bad as the visuals of the sex. And the way we resolved those images were to talk about every detail and for me to see him as the loser he is. He cannot compete with me on any level. Evey time we talked about the sex the more I realized it was not the passionate romp that I imagined an affair to be and he is not some good looking stud. When I saw the affair and the OM for what they really were it became easier to forget. I still have flashes of problems with the sex but for the most part I'm healed.

 

So recovery is a process of communication and accepting she was capable of hurting me in unimaginable ways. But I'm certain that she did not intend to get caught so in that regard I can see where she did not intentionally mean to hurt me. This was about her feeling good and her intention was for me to never know. Of course it's a huge betrayal but the intention was to feel good for her own selfish reasons. In the moment she never considered what it would do to us and to me. Selfishness was deep within her core and that has all changed. She does not want to be that person anymore.

 

The bottom line is I had to stop seeing myself as a victim and move on either by divorce or reconciling. I did not want to live in that bad place and be forever stuck in limbo. And today I can say I'm not at all bitter or angry most of the time. I may have flashes that I'm both bitter and angry, but most of the time those feelings are gone.

 

VBM here are my thoughts about her not wanting to hurt you. Perhaps she can shed some light on this for you. Her affair lasted 84 days from first contact with 300lbs. little dick married other man until your ultimatum. You confronted her 6 weeks before your ultimatum but she never had sex with other man until 4 weeks before your ultimatum. Those two weeks changed the entire dynamics of your relationship with her. That means she knew something was up and that you were suspicious and rather than backing off she went full on sex with him twice. Had she not wanted to hurt you why did she choose to bang this 300 lbs. little dick looser twice just after your first confrontation? This is the part I am having trouble understanding with regards to your wife's statement.

 

Please see pages 15 post number 218 and page 16 post number 229.

[Hope Shimmers]

Let me ask you this - if this 300 pound dough boy with the mini penis was instead a 6'4", 195 lb muscled and fit independently wealthy guy who looked like and had the personality of George Clooney, would you still feel the same? I'm wondering how much of your ability to forgive and move on has to do with the physical attributes of this guy.

 

To me it's actually more disturbing that she would "fake" liking sex with someone like him only to get attention. I'm a single woman who wants attention and sex too, but I'm extremely selective. I would not seek it from someone I'm not attracted to (and I would not be attracted to that guy). No amount of attention would change that. Why was attention so important to her from a guy she found repulsive?

 

Selfishness was deep within her core and that has all changed.

 

I think to expect that to change this quickly might be a mistake. I think she needs to work on herself and needs a good deal of counseling. If all those details she told you are true, then she has some serious selfishness and self-esteem issues that may resurface if they are not addressed and resolved. Don't rug-sweep.

 

Also, please do not justify her choice to cheat on you with "she didn't intend to hurt me because she never wanted me to find out". If that was the case, then we could excuse almost every affair, because who wants their spouse to find out? I know you aren't excusing it for this, but I don't think you can interpret it the way you did. She lied and cheated and that is more hurtful than anything, whether you ever found out or not. And as aliveagain pointed out, her actions aren't matching the things she is saying. She had sex with him after she knew or suspected that you were aware something was amiss.

 

I hope that you are right in moving forward with her and I understand your desire to do so. I just hope she focuses on getting some help. She may believe the words she is saying to you, but she needs to change whatever is within her that made her do this - and that doesn't go away overnight.

[beach]

We do have evidence that she's lied - because she said she didn't love him yet did express to him that she did, yes?

 

And did you expose to his wife? I know OM asked not to - but did you expose? If not, why not?

[VeryBrokenMan]

VBM here are my thoughts about her not wanting to hurt you. Perhaps she can shed some light on this for you. Her affair lasted 84 days from first contact with 300lbs. little dick married other man until your ultimatum. You confronted her 6 weeks before your ultimatum but she never had sex with other man until 4 weeks before your ultimatum. Those two weeks changed the entire dynamics of your relationship with her. That means she knew something was up and that you were suspicious and rather than backing off she went full on sex with him twice. Had she not wanted to hurt you why did she choose to bang this 300 lbs. little dick looser twice just after your first confrontation? This is the part I am having trouble understanding with regards to your wife's statement.

 

Please see pages 15 post number 218 and page 16 post number 229.

 

I have a detailed time line now that I posted the other day. All the sex happened prior to the first confrontation. The first time was Aug 20th and the last was Sept 9 two days prior to the initial confrontation when I asked for her phone.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Let me ask you this - if this 300 pound dough boy with the mini penis was instead a 6'4", 195 lb muscled and fit independently wealthy guy who looked like and had the personality of George Clooney, would you still feel the same? I'm wondering how much of your ability to forgive and move on has to do with the physical attributes of this guy.

 

I think it would change a few things. I've asked her that exact question and her response is that she would have never left me. I have no way of knowing that but I have to assume as any normal person would that it would be hard to resist. But that's hypothetical and really does not matter. The facts are this guy is scum and that is how I'm moving forward.

 

Another change is that I would feel more threatened by an ongoing relationship but since I know she does not find him physically attractive I don't worry about that. Actually I think I worry so little about her cheating again because I know that I'll be OK if she cheats again. We will be done and life will go on and I see that as a position of strength. I'm not wrapped up in what she does from this point on. The rap sheet my PI got on this low life helps too, she realizes what she was involved with.

 

To me it's actually more disturbing that she would "fake" liking sex with someone like him only to get attention. I'm a single woman who wants attention and sex too, but I'm extremely selective. I would not seek it from someone I'm not attracted to (and I would not be attracted to that guy). No amount of attention would change that. Why was attention so important to her from a guy she found repulsive?

She never said repulsive, I might have said that but I think she would call him average in looks but severely overweight. In other words his physical attractiveness was not something that led to the affair, it was the attention.

 

We have talked at length about why she needed that attention. I think there are several parts that came together.

 

Her mother passed about two years prior(Nov 2012) and she was the primary caretaker toward the end as we moved her into our home prior to moving her to a nursing home for the last month. She felt close to her mother but her mother had always been distant and matter of fact in dealing with her. She also held her to very high standards morally. During that last year her mother was very mean and demanding and that took it's toll on both her and our relationship.

 

During this same period of time her divorced sister(husband cheated 25 years ago) was diagnosed with breast cancer and she also was responsible for her care for a time. My wife understandably put me last during this period of time and I tried to be supportive but my escape was work and I did not give her all the support I should have. Looking back I should have just hired a full time nurse to help out.

 

After her mother passed, her sister recovered and moved out of state to be closer to her daughter. This left my wife alone to deal with the aftermath of the death of her mom. We had a long talk in March of 2014 because she was still depressed over the death and drifting and I knew she was unhappy. Our life was back to normal but she was not happy at all and her 50th birthday was very hard on her. I asked her in March if she was happy with me and her words were "You are all that is good in my life". She said her unhappiness was the loss of her mother and her sister who moved away.

 

I feel like we drifted apart during that time period that she took care of her mom and sister because it brought me back to the days of my needs always coming last as they did when the children were young. I thought those days were over and as I look back now I really resented coming last again and I'm sure that bleed over into the relationship. I know that was selfish on my part as well as the lack of full support I gave her. And by lack of support most of that was me not being there when her mother was in and out of the hospital several times. As well as when her sister ran into complications. She has told me several times that she resents that lack of support but that did not rise to the level of wanting to seek out an affair. I fully supported moving them into our home and taking over the financial aspects of that.

 

I think the two years prior to the affair she was dealing with the death of her mother and her sister leaving town and she was not engaged in our relationship. So my response was to spend more time at the office and try to support her the best I could when I was home. Looking back I knew she was depressed and unhappy but I really did not know what to do for her. I think she should have been seeing an IC but hindsight is 20/20. We still spent time together on the weekends and we still traveled but looking back we were going through the motions. I was still reeling from coming last again and dealing with that and she was still dealing with her losses.

 

She also had been so involved in caring for her mother and sister she did not take the time to take care of herself during and after. She had gained 15 pounds, her complexion was off, she was starting peri-menopause and she skipped her normal botox and filler injections I think due to the depression. She never really started all that back up until about April 2014 and she quickly lost the weight and started feeling better about herself. She posted some new selfies on FB in April and she looked really hot again. our life was getting back on track and we were both happy. I knew she was hot but I probably never gave her the attention that a new man pursuing her would give her. It's just not possible in a long term marriage to be on like that all the time and she totally gets that.

 

So the OM comes along in July and starts complimenting her and telling her how hot she is. She loves to flirt and always has and the affair started out like that but quickly built into a full blown PA in about a month.

 

I think to expect that to change this quickly might be a mistake. I think she needs to work on herself and needs a good deal of counseling. If all those details she told you are true, then she has some serious selfishness and self-esteem issues that may resurface if they are not addressed and resolved. Don't rug-sweep.

Both our eyes are wide open and we are not rug sweeping anything. She has gotten a lot of IC over the past 5 months and she is working hard on herself. She is not laying any blame for her affair on me or our relationship. She says it was not great (I agree) but it never was bad enough to be driven to cheating.

 

Also, please do not justify her choice to cheat on you with "she didn't intend to hurt me because she never wanted me to find out". If that was the case, then we could excuse almost every affair, because who wants their spouse to find out? I know you aren't excusing it for this, but I don't think you can interpret it the way you did. She lied and cheated and that is more hurtful than anything, whether you ever found out or not. And as aliveagain pointed out, her actions aren't matching the things she is saying. She had sex with him after she knew or suspected that you were aware something was amiss.

She did not have sex after the initial confrontation, see post above about that. She did lie and cheat and that is hurtful but at the time she had no thoughts about me or what it would do to me. So I am able to see that her intention was not to hurt me at all it was to get the attention she craved.

 

I know normal people don't cheat but selfish people who are only thinking of themselves do. I have to accept that she WAS selfish but enforce boundaries from this point forward that I can't live with that. She see's her selfishness not only in the affair but prior as well and she does not want to be that person anymore as it disgusts her. I can hear that disgust in her voice when she talks about it and I see that selfishness and entitlement is something that crept in over time and took over her life.

 

I hope that you are right in moving forward with her and I understand your desire to do so. I just hope she focuses on getting some help. She may believe the words she is saying to you, but she needs to change whatever is within her that made her do this - and that doesn't go away overnight.

She is working hard to change herself. She told me last night that everything she does she asks herself if this is selfish or not even when dealing with other people. She really is a changed person. She is back to being not the person prior to the affair but the person I fell in love with many years ago that taught me how to be selfless in a relationship. She really is a good decent human being that just lost her way.

[beach]

From what you just typed it looks like you're saying she was willing to take care of everyone else - but not your marriage.

 

 

What boundary has she worked on?

[VeryBrokenMan]

We do have evidence that she's lied - because she said she didn't love him yet did express to him that she did, yes?

 

She says the lie was to the OM. She tells me how it started was that she was trying to break it off after the initial confrontation and he told her he loved her. We all know that was just a lie to keep her hooked but she fell for it. She said she believed at the time that this guy really did love her and she did not want to hurt his feelings. So she said it because she thought that is what he wanted to hear. Keep in mind there is a huge relative difference in physical attractiveness between this loser and my wife.

 

She also says "I love you" to all her girlfriends, brothers, sister. She is very free with the term so I don't think the words mean that much to her. I tell my kids and her I love them and that's it so the words mean much more.

 

And did you expose to his wife? I know OM asked not to - but did you expose? If not, why not?

He did not ask for it. They just talked at length in the last call on how to prevent her from finding out. He threatened me during that call and she asked him repeatedly not to do anything to me. I know it's all bluster and I'd welcome the opportunity should he ever confront me. I think the rage I feel would more than make up for the weight difference.

 

The week of DDay(in Oct) I messaged the wife anonymously via FB not telling her who I was. She called my wife's old cell phone in February and left a message saying she had not heard from her on FB and wanted to make sure she was alright and she told her she loved her. My wife dropped about 35 non-family male friends from FB last November and also deleted the OM's wife and several other mutual friends I think in an attempt to limit collateral damage if somehow it went public.

 

I told my wife a couple of weeks later about the phone call from the OM wife and she did not want to call her so I left it alone.

 

I did not take any other steps to expose the OM to his wife and I'm happy with that. There is no chance of him restarting the affair at this point and other than revenge I saw no advantages. And I also go by the saying that revenge is a dish best served cold

 

Knowing what I know now I would have called the other wife prior to confronting my wife but after the fact it seemed petty and would do more harm than good. I struggled morally with that for a while, she has the right to know, but I feel I at least attempted it. I suspect that she knows she is married to a serial cheater and does not care. This is his third or forth marriage.

[wasabi555]

What is worse ? the lies she told you or the one that you are trying to tell yourself. Stop the mental gymnastics and twisting yourself.

 

I think if you are reconciling, you should accept the fact that you are reconciling inspite of what she did. Find other reasons to blame her actions. Call it affair fog. Or mid life crisis. Or huge error in judgement. Reconciliation is fine but don't lie to yourself. Trying to find postive things she said to her Om during her breakup call is really scraping at the bottom of the barrel.

[VeryBrokenMan]

From what you just typed it looks like you're saying she was willing to take care of everyone else - but not your marriage.

 

 

What boundary has she worked on?

 

That is exactly right, she has always been selfless when it comes to other people but selfish in our relationship.

 

I'm not sure these are all boundaries but there can be no relationships at all with other men, period. She deleted all her male FB friends.(She also un-friended single GF's without being asked) No more flirting if I'm present or not. She changed phone numbers and I always have access to her phone. She even leaves her phone with me anytime she leaves the room and I never asked for that. She shows me texts all the time or at least tells me who it is. I have her old cell at my office and it's still active and there have been no suspicious texts or calls. I have all her passwords for FB/email/etc. She tells me her plans and lets me know if they change. She has had two GNO's in the past 5 months but asked if it was OK with me first. She knows there cannot be any guys at any of these anymore and she does not want there to be. She backed out of one GNO because there were some guys planning on going. She consults my feeling before making any decisions. She is putting me first from now on regardless of what the issue is. And I'm also putting her first. She is weighing everything for selfishness and entitlement before committing.

 

There may be others but that is what I can think of.

[beach]

I think you're willing to believe whatever she dishes out in order not to divorce.

 

 

Be careful - swallowing that much BS and pride is toxic to your system.

 

 

I can't see the value you see. It's just too much conflicting evidence to stomach much less believe.

[VeryBrokenMan]

What is worse ? the lies she told you or the one that you are trying to tell yourself. Stop the mental gymnastics and twisting yourself.

 

I think if you are reconciling, you should accept the fact that you are reconciling inspite of what she did. Find other reasons to blame her actions. Call it affair fog. Or mid life crisis. Or huge error in judgement. Reconciliation is fine but don't lie to yourself. Trying to find postive things she said to her Om during her breakup call is really scraping at the bottom of the barrel.

 

I'm happy with my thinking and my choices and so is my IC. This is not a place I've come to without a lot of thought and self reflection.

 

Doesn't everyone that chooses to reconcile do it in spite of what their WW/WH does? It's not scraping the bottom, it's simply seeing the facts for what they are and not making an emotional decision.