Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[lgspot]

I'm not going to tell her about this site because this is for me. But if anyone wants to ask tough questions of her I'll email her the questions and post her responses here.

 

What do you want to say to her?

 

What do you want to ask?

VBM,

I by no means meant to tell her about LS or your safe spot.

What I wanted to convey, is that it might prove helpful if she could discuss trials and tribulations of R with a couple ladies that have been there for years. I don't mean to seem sexist here, but sometimes women talk to each other better when men are not part of the discussion. Sometimes its almost like a foreign language (lol).

There are some really, really good women here that have made mistakes and recovered.

One thing I would like to ask her, does she truly realize how much you've had her back even since D-day? Even when people have made rather harsh comments, you have responded in friendship, and respect towards her.

I'll repeat, you appear much happier and content with her, than when you face the prospect of being without her.

Pardon me if I'm not making sense. I was just at work 23 straight hours and am rambling.

Times like that might be part of reason ex is an ex. lol

Edited April 9, 2015 by lgspot

[fellini]

You can look at it the other way to... I believe she did not orgasm so how emotionally invested could she have been?

 

We talked about the sex at the motel in detail again Friday night. The story never changes, it was not a passion filled romp. It was him getting off and not really caring for her needs at all. She said she thought it might be better the second time in a real bed. I mean that is about as honest an answer I'm going to get. The thing that bothers me is that she was willing to give up sex for the emotional connection and attention.

 

We also talked about if she was happy or not. And from about 1 month post DDay she has been saying she was happy. But Friday night she said that "You can look at everything on paper and it looks good but in reality things are not really good". That is new information and I did not followup but I see now that did not sit well with me. I need to pursue that statement and see what she means.

 

 

I'll explain what I have learned from my WW and see if that helps understand a little.

 

My WW embarked on a much longer EA - partly invisible to single OM and then quite obvious and so they both played it out.

 

Time for the physical. He owns a studio/office apartment nearby, so he offered her that so they could be intimate. When the time came, he found he couldn't get hard. He was embarrassed. She didn't mind, because she was more interested in the heightened intimacy than the actual sex. Of course he tried to bring her to orgasm. Supposedly he failed, but she said something like "there are many levels of pleasure" to let him think he had done his "duty". So the short story is he had testosterone problems, and for all their hookups he was unable to get hard, penetrate, bring himself or her to orgasm. She more or less faked the pleasure he was supposed to be giving her.

 

But don't be thinking she wasn't enjoying their hours together. She couldn't get enough.

 

I do not know about your WW, but I know one thing. In spite of his having testosterone problems, and in spite of the fact that their sex was lackluster, she was deeply emotionally invested in him. One thing does not have to have anything to do with the other.

 

An emotional investment in someone is NOT based on what that person "does", it is what we do to ourselves. They do NOT control the degree and depth of the fall. They can do things to alert us, but once infatuation is let loose, and providing there are no red flags, people can find themselves deeply emotionally involved in hours, minutes, days, or it can take months. It has nothing to do with the details of the penetration, the length or number of orgasms.

 

It can sometimes be as simple as a caress at the right (wrong!) moment. Or a deep embrace.

Edited April 9, 2015 by fellini

[Hope Shimmers]

Of course he tried to bring her to orgasm. Supposedly he failed, but she said something like "there are many levels of pleasure" to let him think he had done his "duty". So the short story is he had testosterone problems, and for all their hookups he was unable to get hard, penetrate, bring himself or her to orgasm. She more or less faked the pleasure he was supposed to be giving her.

 

And you believe that? Didn't they have like 60 or 70 times of getting together for sex? Come on.

 

I do not know about your WW, but I know one thing. In spite of his having testosterone problems, and in spite of the fact that their sex was lackluster, she was deeply emotionally invested in him. One thing does not have to have anything to do with the other.

 

Sorry, but they are both very connected in the mind of a woman. (And I am a woman, so I think I have you on that one). No woman fakes it for that long.

[fellini]

Maybe it's not about the love and affection, and maybe all the trimmings about the car and the finances is even less the point.

 

Maybe she wants more than anything to just put the entire thing behind her, live the married life as it was before, and not have to paint "I'm cheated on my husband recently" on her forehead.

 

Reconciliation is not black and white. It's extremely complicated because you have two people struggling to get back their dignity and sense of self worth, and you have this frigging ELEPHANT forever in the room, and you want a happy marriage but you are afraid to go there too quickly AND you want the other person to be completely authentic BUT you also want them to perform some "post infidelity" loop jumping.

 

Where does anyone find their individual sanity in that incredibly conflictive space? It is not easy. It comes in moments. And one of the important things I have found nearly 2 years in is to help create these moments and be open to the genuine pleasure that a WS can show when she feels she is not pressured to perform, when for a brief moment I and she allows herself to forget the past, even fleetingly, and express herself as she is and not as I want her to.

 

These moments are necessary for moving forward. Continuing to hunt down a set of truths in the past will at some point become just a task of digging up ugliness.

 

If there are some questions that absolutely need to be answered fully in order to genuinely move forward, I say go for it. But only if you have a WS who is now able to sit down and look you in the eye and answer your questions honestly, and without hesitation, and without fear of consequences.

 

If I had to drag my WS to a lie detector test, I'd rather just drag myself over to a divorce lawyer and be done with it. At this point.

 

 

 

I think it's time he finds out what is her truth and what is actually fiction.

 

He's been swallowing her words a long time pretending like she's been honest.

 

She says she'll give up everything to stay - go ahead and strip her of every luxury she's used to - including her assets and expected sharing of funds. Let her work and see the value of earning her own money. Let her explain to everyone she knows that she cheated and has to earn her own way in the world now. Let her get a paycheck in order to buy a purse it a new blouse for herself. Let her save enough money to but a car that 15 or 20 years old.

 

Let's see how much SHE'S really willing to sacrifice for your love and affection.

 

She offered it - take her up on it.

[road]

Don't see your point?

 

 

Point is as plain as the end of your nose. I can not understand that you do not see this. All this taking about the affair only keeps the affair memories alive. To heal you need these memories to fade.

 

 

Your WW has answered all of your questions concerning the affair. If you doubt you got the whole truth then get the poly done ASAP. This way the affair talk will be completed.

 

 

Talking about the affair is only making you trigger on a daily basis. Nothing to accomplish healing is achieved.

[aliveagain]

At some point she will still have to explain to VBM how she took VBM to the point of almost suicide (VBM sitting in his office with a loaded pistol in his hand) with little care for VBM's well being as stated in his early post. She an attractive and fit wife and mother threw VBM aside for a 300 lbs. beer bellied married guy with the penis of a little boy. This man is what it took for her to throw it all away(in less than 3 months start to finish, I believe it took 5 phone calls before they had sex) and by some miraculous means is now completely over him (and by the way she didn't enjoy the sex but did it again I guess not to be rude) in less than two months.

 

This is why you need to slow things down, get the truth. No one wants your relationship to fail, you just need to know if the relationship you have is what you think it is and not what you are being manipulated into believing it is.

[drifter777]

Point is as plain as the end of your nose. I can not understand that you do not see this. All this taking about the affair only keeps the affair memories alive. To heal you need these memories to fade.

 

 

Your WW has answered all of your questions concerning the affair. If you doubt you got the whole truth then get the poly done ASAP. This way the affair talk will be completed.

 

 

Talking about the affair is only making you trigger on a daily basis. Nothing to accomplish healing is achieved.

So you are advocating that OP rugsweep his feelings and just get over it? What have you learned about infidelity that could bring you to the point that you give this kind of advice? He's not 10 years out from d-day for Christ sake.

[fellini]

I'm not sure whose story you are thinking about but my WS hooked up for sex about 4 or 5 times only. I caught their affair just as they were getting the PA thing down.

 

I think if you read my post you will see she told gave him a false impression. She wasn't doing Meg Ryan in Sleepless. She simply didn't tell him the truth when he asked.

 

One thing is to fake an orgasm, another is to answer untruthfully about IF you had one.

 

And you believe that? Didn't they have like 60 or 70 times of getting together for sex? Come on.

 

 

 

Sorry, but they are both very connected in the mind of a woman. (And I am a woman, so I think I have you on that one). No woman fakes it for that long.

[Hope Shimmers]

I'm not sure whose story you are thinking about but my WS hooked up for sex about 4 or 5 times only. I caught their affair just as they were getting the PA thing down.

 

I think if you read my post you will see she told gave him a false impression. She wasn't doing Meg Ryan in Sleepless. She simply didn't tell him the truth when he asked.

 

One thing is to fake an orgasm, another is to answer untruthfully about IF you had one.

 

My apologies; I must have mixed your story up with someone else. My point is still the same though. I can't imagine why anyone would do that repeatedly.

[fellini]

Well the thing is Hope, the whole point has nothing to do with what you believe. The point was ever so simple before you turned it around into something else.

 

My WW had sex with her AP on a number of occasions, did not have orgasm but was emotionally attached to him. This is what I addressed in the OP's thread.

 

She believed she was in love with the man and was close to leaving her marriage to keep him. she didn't need to have orgasms to get that far.

 

 

 

My apologies; I must have mixed your story up with someone else. My point is still the same though. I can't imagine why anyone would do that repeatedly.

[Hope Shimmers]

Well the thing is Hope, the whole point has nothing to do with what you believe. The point was ever so simple before you turned it around into something else.

 

My WW had sex with her AP on a number of occasions, did not have orgasm but was emotionally attached to him. This is what I addressed in the OP's thread.

 

She believed she was in love with the man and was close to leaving her marriage to keep him. she didn't need to have orgasms to get that far.

 

I have yet to find a single one of your posts to be simple, fellini.

[road]

So you are advocating that OP rugsweep his feelings and just get over it? What have you learned about infidelity that could bring you to the point that you give this kind of advice? He's not 10 years out from d-day for Christ sake.

 

 

 

 

OP avoiding polygraph is rug sweeping.

 

 

He has asked everything. He has gotten all the answers. There is no new ground to be covered by still talking about the affair with his WW.

 

 

His problem is he is triggering. This triggering instead of tapering off is not because all his rehashing on the affair with his WW keeps the affair memories strong. The affair memories need to fade and so will the triggers.

[81West]

A problem with a polygraph, aside from the weirdness of needing a polygraph, is that there is really one truly useful result. If she passes, yay! If she doesn't it's just a whole new front on angst because there will be all the predictable defenses for that. First, they're unreliable. That's just a fact. Second, history is full of people who fail polygraphs and protest they have no idea why. About the worst thing a person who is lying can do is refuse to take a polygraph. The harder and quicker they agree, the more confusing it is when they fail. There is little value in the statement about her AP being her 'only lie'. There are all kinds of motivations for women to lie about their sexual histories to men. It's a tough situation, and a sad one. Again, I feel for the OP.

[beach]

It's kind of beside the point - but it holds value since she offered to take it.

 

Make the appt and drive her there. See if she sweats - or is completely unaffected by taking it.

 

If nothing else - some grey areas may get resolved.

[merrmeade]

VBM, honestly, none of us know her and you do so we don't have the answers. Unfortunately, you don't have the answers you need either.

 

I think you need to implement something as objective as possible. I was reading about polygraphs for infidelity online - some of the companies provide extensive information on their websites regarding how it works. I always had more of a "Law and Order" thought process about these, but these are nothing like that.

 

You said the polygraph person you talked to said that a lot of time needed to pass for there not to be a false positive. I didn't read that anywhere; in fact, over and over I read that it should be done as soon as possible for full disclosure so reconciliation can proceed (if that is the goal). You can't go weeks and months not knowing these answers. If you think about it, it seems more logical that time would allow for less emotion/better control of emotions (resulting in the physical response) and a better chance for the person to "beat" the test, or a false negative. But they also said that a well-trained person administering the test will not ask questions that they know have not been discussed ahead of time for her to have a chance to tell the truth - thus, the test isn't used for information reveal but verification of what already has been discussed.

 

Anyway, it seems that they are used by some therapists as part of the reconciliation process. It's not necessarily just a "one and done". There is what some call a "vomit" session scheduled before the test, where the WS has a chance to tell everything and the full and complete truth, and then this is worked through. THEN the test is administered, to verify that this is the truth and give the betrayed spouse peace of mind and allow for trust. The WS actually knows the questions they will be asked and has a chance to answer them in the therapy session beforehand.

 

Then, if they fail the test later, they have had the chance to disclose earlier and the betrayed knows they are lying. If they fail only one question of the series of infidelity questions, they technically fail the test but depending on the question, there is opportunity for another session for the WS to fully disclose, then re-test.

 

One of the common questions was, "Have you told WS the entire and full truth about your sexual experiences with others during your marriage?" And similar.

 

I just think you need to do SOMETHING rather than all of this wondering. You have this tool; why not use it?

On what basis, does the WS agree to do it? What is their motivation?

[Hope Shimmers]

On what basis, does the WS agree to do it? What is their motivation?

 

Being truly dedicated to reconciliation. Wanting the BS to believe what they say. If she truly wants that, it should be a huge motivator, correct?

[DKT3]

A problem with a polygraph, aside from the weirdness of needing a polygraph, is that there is really one truly useful result. If she passes, yay! If she doesn't it's just a whole new front on angst because there will be all the predictable defenses for that. First, they're unreliable. That's just a fact. Second, history is full of people who fail polygraphs and protest they have no idea why. About the worst thing a person who is lying can do is refuse to take a polygraph. The harder and quicker they agree, the more confusing it is when they fail. There is little value in the statement about her AP being her 'only lie'. There are all kinds of motivations for women to lie about their sexual histories to men. It's a tough situation, and a sad one. Again, I feel for the OP.

 

The advantage of polygraphs isn't in the actual test. Most often you get parking lot confessions. Wayward spouses love to control information, so instead of losing control they will give more truths, maybe still not all but getting closer.

 

With or without the test doubt and questions will always be there. A BS can never know everything simply because the WS can't remember everything others flat out refuse to share everything.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Point is as plain as the end of your nose. I can not understand that you do not see this. All this taking about the affair only keeps the affair memories alive. To heal you need these memories to fade.

 

 

Your WW has answered all of your questions concerning the affair. If you doubt you got the whole truth then get the poly done ASAP. This way the affair talk will be completed.

 

 

Talking about the affair is only making you trigger on a daily basis. Nothing to accomplish healing is achieved.

 

I think this is sound advise and no I did not see it until you pointed it out. I'm sure that some here will call that rug-sweeping, but is that what it is or is it just moving forward?

[VeryBrokenMan]

So you are advocating that OP rugsweep his feelings and just get over it? What have you learned about infidelity that could bring you to the point that you give this kind of advice? He's not 10 years out from d-day for Christ sake.

 

So when does it not become rug-sweeping ? 1 Year? 5 Years? Honest question.

[Bittersweetie]

So when does it not become rug-sweeping ? 1 Year? 5 Years? Honest question.

 

I'll answer based on my own situation. We are 5+ years out from d-day and together. We dedicated specific times to talk about the A, and as time went on, other serious things. Having a specific time gave us focus and a chance to plan questions and topics. When one person talked, the other listened, etc. It was kind of like our own MC. We did talk about A things outside talk time, but we both tried to refrain from this, as we were working on reconciling, and relating in non-d-day ways were important too...if that makes sense.

 

First six-nine months: Talk time once a week, at least...sometimes two.

 

Nine - eighteen months after d-day: Every other week.

 

1.5 years after d-day: Once a month. By now we weren't talking specific A things, but more about personal issues, the issues in our relationship, looking at our future, etc.

 

2.5 years after d-day: We had a baby. Sleep took priority over any kind of talking.

 

The main thing we learned is to talk to each other about anything, even the bad stuff. Actually the bad stuff is the most important stuff...because if not addressed it just sits there and poisons the people and relationship.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PS. We were both in individual IC for the first year, no MC.

[drifter777]

So when does it not become rug-sweeping ? 1 Year? 5 Years? Honest question.

Its rugsweeping when you know you are rugsweeping. You are still in the wake of d-day and it's just not rational to expect to be at peace with all of this. One exception to this would be if you just don't care that she cheated. Like you are willing to look the other way as long as she doesn't embarrass you and your family. It doesn't seem like this describes you.

 

It is a great question. I don't believe there is a magic timeframe, and I don't believe there is any kind of one-size-fits-all approach to this. What does you IC say? That is by far the best place to discuss all of this.

[Marchhare]

From another thread:

 

She was unhappy before during and after the affair in our marriage. She was happy during the affair with him, she says he made her feel good.

 

 

So unhappy with the marriage BEFORE the affair, unhappy with the marriage DURING the affair, and NOW we learn she is unhappy AFTER her extramarital romp with being MARRIED to you.

But AP made her feel good, and WW was HAPPY during the affair with him the supposed two times she bedded him. Yet she didn't enjoy the sex? So her truth says. How can someone feel good about a 300 lb small d*cked AP whom we know is a sleaze, whom she had unprotected sex with not enjoying said sex exposing OP to who knows what. She did it because she ENJOYED it. AP made her feel good, plain and simple. OP now says WW is entering real estate, the A hotbed, gee,wasn't AP in real estate?

So what is all this rhetoric about defending someone who is unhappy with her marriage to you?

WW says all the politically correct things, but as OP says, the love has died , just going through the motions.

I doubt you will get absolution from the polygraph, hope I'm wrong. Hedge your bets prior and do the post nupital.

Unless your still in

Denial

[beach]

I think this is sound advise and no I did not see it until you pointed it out. I'm sure that some here will call that rug-sweeping, but is that what it is or is it just moving forward?

 

Nothing about your posts show evidence of "moving forward"... And I personally believe it's because you aren't looking at what's real - or haven't collected all your evidence YET.

 

Some call it rug sweeping but I see it as blatantly ignoring your facts and opportunities to find out real information.

 

Your wife may have betrayed you but I think you've also jumped on the wagon and are now willingly betraying yourself now too, by ignoring chances to dig deep and find out real evidence.

 

Why haven't you had her sign a post nuptial agreement yet? Your dragging your feet on protecting yourself - that's hardly moving forward.

 

Go to your first post in this thread and read it again. She thinks of herself, not you.

Edited April 11, 2015 by beach

[VeryBrokenMan]

Nothing about your posts show evidence of "moving forward"... And I personally believe it's because you aren't looking at what's real - or haven't collected all your evidence YET.

 

Some call it rug sweeping but I see it as blatantly ignoring your facts and opportunities to find out real information.

 

Your wife may have betrayed you but I think you've also jumped on the wagon and are now willingly betraying yourself now too, by ignoring chances to dig deep and find out real evidence.

 

Why haven't you had her sign a post nuptial agreement yet? Your dragging your feet on protecting yourself - that's hardly moving forward.

 

Go to your first post in this thread and read it again. She thinks of herself, not you.

 

She DID think of herself, she has not been doing that for a while. As I've explained before I'm up in the air about a post-nup as my attorney says it's a waste of time legally.

[VeryBrokenMan]

From another thread:

 

So unhappy with the marriage BEFORE the affair, unhappy with the marriage DURING the affair, and NOW we learn she is unhappy AFTER her extramarital romp with being MARRIED to you.

But AP made her feel good, and WW was HAPPY during the affair with him the supposed two times she bedded him. Yet she didn't enjoy the sex? So her truth says. How can someone feel good about a 300 lb small d*cked AP whom we know is a sleaze, whom she had unprotected sex with not enjoying said sex exposing OP to who knows what. She did it because she ENJOYED it. AP made her feel good, plain and simple. OP now says WW is entering real estate, the A hotbed, gee,wasn't AP in real estate?

So what is all this rhetoric about defending someone who is unhappy with her marriage to you?

WW says all the politically correct things, but as OP says, the love has died , just going through the motions.

I doubt you will get absolution from the polygraph, hope I'm wrong. Hedge your bets prior and do the post nupital.

Unless your still in

Denial

 

She says she was not unhappy with me, just life in general. She was depressed for a lot of reasons that I've covered several times. That does not give one permission to cheat or excuse it, it's just a fact of the circumstances. Love dies and love can come back if she does the right things. I've learned that love and the feeling of love can and does change throughout a relationship.