Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[jbrent890]

Wait so this is her second affair and you are forgiving this behavior again? I'm sorry man, but this does exhibit weakness to me. I think you might have some serious codependency issues when it comes to this woman. For the bulk of your relationship, you have gone above and beyond for her and she has treated you like crap. I could see if this was her first affair, but this is her second (that you know of). This changes things man. Your threads made it sound like she this is the first time she has done this to you. Hope is right. Selfish people don't just magically change. They can bury the behavior, but it eventually comes out again. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if there were other affairs. My man you really do need to ask yourself why you are staying. At this point, I fail to believe that you would leave if you found out about other affairs.

[beach]

Second affair. Yikes!

 

You trained her the first time to believe you won't leave even when she lies and cheats. Second time same deal.

 

She must be thinking she's got the world by the tail - she cheats without severe consequences. Her life hasn't changed much from cheating. Why rule out a third? It kills me to say it that way... But really, why wouldn't she cheat again when the next opportunity arises?

 

She has no reason to be faithful... She loses nothing when she does it.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I'm not going to respond to every post because that makes me sound like I'm defending the indefensible. But I've read them all and giving them all some thought. Had a pretty good blowup this weekend, not good at all.

[Mazerati]

I'm not going to respond to every post because that makes me sound like I'm defending the indefensible. But I've read them all and giving them all some thought. Had a pretty good blowup this weekend, not good at all.

 

So sorry to hear VBM. Was it new information, or going over what is already known?

Keep strong, and hold your head up. You did not deserve to be cheated on. I do suggest again to have your wife file a restraining order, and inform the OM's wife considering he still has designs on your WW.

 

Make the decision which is best for YOU!

 

Maz

[understand50]

VBM,

 

Please do not feel like you have to apologize about defending your wife. It is what we do, that is why cheating is so wrong and hurts so bad. What I see is everyone asking you to see her as she is and was. I hope you can see what she can become and that it is worth your heartache and pain to let her get to that point. Also, unless something else came out, she did the right thing here. She was open about the communication. I see many are taken back about the EA in the past, and who knows it may have been a first A, but if you want and hope for the whole truth, you need to let your wife be able to tell you without a blow up. Yes, you can be mad, but you at least should thank her for her honesty at the time. Honesty is what we need, but if we demand it, we need to be prepared to get a hard honest answer.

 

One last thought. What you need is the future. Nothing she does can change the past. It is what it is. Your question, is "Can I forgive my wife enough to be able to live with her going forward, and am I reasonably sure she will remain faithful" If you stay together, you will need to praise her when she does the right things, and talk things over when the bad information comes out. At some point you may change your answer to the question above, but if we believe that people can change, and I do, we need to let them and ourselves heal.

Edited May 3, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[aliveagain]

I'm not going to respond to every post because that makes me sound like I'm defending the indefensible. But I've read them all and giving them all some thought. Had a pretty good blowup this weekend, not good at all.

 

Sorry that you are in this position but maybe a blowup is what is needed for your wife to accept the reality of where she has put your relationship. She needs to take you seriously, you can't just lay a carpet over this. Tell his wife, don't tell your wife your going to do it but do it before you apply for any kind of RO or you may be in breech of it when you contact her. My ex didn't want me talking to her girlfriends privately because they knew about her cheating exploits. If O/M's wife is a friend of hers she may have more dirt on your wife, who knows but your wife's turnaround is suspicious to me.

[merrmeade]

Having read and reread this thread, I'd just like to weigh in on aliveagain's incredible contribution in researchign the "LIST OF PATTERNS" (post #711). Damn, VBM - you got a friend!

 

Hope you don't mind, aa, that I further refined & organized these (pattern-love), diffeentiating what's a category from what's an example (pattern addiction). [changes/additions in italics + bold]

 

PATTERN 1: double standards.

. always saying she would leave if you had an affair.

. never being happy with your being thin and athletic BUT she chooses a friend's husband, a 300-lb beer-bellied convicted sex offender who'd spent 6 years in prison for his sex offence.

. could not have phone sex or send you naked pictures YET did with affair partner.

. saying no to sex/intimacy anytime she wanted and you saying yes to everything possible financially(trips, cars, houses, furniture).

 

PATTERN 2: disrespect, manipulation, abuse.

. being dishonest, omitting truths.

. flirting with other men your entire 35+-year relationship.

. making you feel insecure about her actions/flirting/comments.

. talking about how attractive other men are in front of you.

. blaming you entirely for relationship problems; you, accepting the blame.

 

PATTERN 3: controlling intimacy.

. showing little affection unless she wanted something.

. using sex as a weapon/reward.

. rejecting sex for years when she decided.

. saying no to sex/intimacy anytime she wanted.

 

PATTERN 4: general selfishness, self-absorption.

. always expecting you to change for her to be happy.

. putting you last every time she got overwhelmed with life.

 

PATTERN 5: non-communicative, incapable of sharing herself

. being emotionally distant.

. never telling you how she felt about anything.

. hinting/inability to tell you what she wanted/desired/expected from you.

 

Now, a lot of that looks like (familiar) narcissistic stuff going on.

Your recent posts about the changes in your interactions since D-day indicate that she's pretty vulnerable now, fearful even of losing you - in contrast to behavior during marriage. I don't really feel qualified to add more opinion about that. I sure think, however, that you guys - she especially - need to look further into that screaming dichotomy.

[VeryBrokenMan]

merrmeade and alive again: it's clear that she has not been a good spouse looking back. But I think it's normal after an affair for the BS's view of the past to be clouded by the emotions that the affair brings out. Issues that I just put up with in the past can't be tolerated in the future. I see the narcissism and selfishness every day now. The difference is she is seeing it too and is taking steps to correct it. When I say she does not want to be that person, I mean she really does not want to be that person. The problems of the past are in the past and we both know that if we are to stay together that her behavior cannot be tolerated. And to her credit I cannot think of a single example on that list that has happened in the past few months.

 

And you guys have to know that there are always two side to every story. I've admitted here before that I'm not a saint either. I'm driven by my work and I've been guilty of neglecting her in the past. My only defense is that I did to make a brighter future for us. I think I have something to prove by being successful. We both came from very poor families and from a very rough neighborhood and we were able to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps with zero outside help and make it. You may see her as a entitled princess(and she is now) but that was kind of our deal but she was not always like that. I was the provider and she raised the kids and took care of the house. I don't resent that role or division of labor because we have great kids and she was the difference.

 

And she was there when we did not have much money. She knows what it's like to grow up without much and she knows what it's like to live like we did starting out. But the last few years she has been drifting, no real purpose since the kids left the nest and she fell into the "house wives of X" routine where life revolves around her and her needs with no thought of anyone else. Over the last few years (other than taking care of her mother) her focus was working out and being pretty and living the good life that we built together. She got lost in that life and lost in her own selfish needs. But that is not the person I married or really not the person she is or wants to be. She see's that and she see's it clearly. In the past when she was motivated to do something she made it happen. I full expect her to do that with her real estate career. She is driven and motivated and I think it's going to change her life. And I'm willing at this point to see what happens.

 

My IC helped me yesterday to see the blow up this weekend was caused in large part by lack of sleep on both sides and that cycle was triggered by the OM attempting to contact her. That had a huge effect on both of us. I realized talking to her that anytime either of us is struggling I can look back and see that we got very little sleep. That was the case this weekend after a three or four day stretch after that call with neither of us getting any sleep at all. The pressure builds and we both just reached the breaking point. There was nothing new, just a lot of raw emotions and a lot of rehashing old subjects. I said some things I did not mean, she said some things she did not mean. The emotions where incredibly high and exacerbated by having had almost no sleep the night before.

 

So we decided it was best to take a break for a while and try to let emotions settle down and to reevaluate after that.

 

What you need is the future. Nothing she does can change the past. It is what it is. Your question, is "Can I forgive my wife enough to be able to live with her going forward, and am I reasonably sure she will remain faithful" If you stay together, you will need to praise her when she does the right things, and talk things over when the bad information comes out. At some point you may change your answer to the question above, but if we believe that people can change, and I do, we need to let them and ourselves heal.

I agree with that completely. There can be no changing the past, I can expect certain things for the future, expect her to remain faithful, expect change and right now that is enough to allow me to move forward.

 

You trained her the first time to believe you won't leave even when she lies and cheats. Second time same deal.

 

She has no reason to be faithful... She loses nothing when she does it

She maintains to this day that the first affair was that they were "just friends" and is willing to answer questions during the polygraph. In my view it was a talk multiple times a day for long periods of time and hide it from your husband friendship. She says it was never physical or even progressed to any type of personal talk. So is that an affair or not?

 

I disagree about the extent of her loss, she has lost a great deal. She told me once "I don't cheat because of who I am and what I believe". She has lost that moral high ground. She has lost my respect and she has lost my unconditional love. She has lost her innocence. You are viewing it from the perspective that she does not love me and want to be married to me. I think she does love me and does want her marriage and because of that the loss is huge.

[beach]

When is that polygraph?

 

You keep stating that you intend to find out her truth by means of polygraph - yet you haven't done it.

 

 

When is it?

[fellini]

You will not find truth in a polygraph. You will only find out some things based on the questions you can ask that can be properly gaged.

 

What you seem to be doing right VBM is getting the truth to come from inside her. When she can say something that resonates with you and feels honest and forthcoming without interrogation, you will see that a phase in this process has passed and this will take a huge weight of doubt off your shoulders.

 

Personally I wouldn't put this to a poly because as soon as it's finished I can imagine running through my head things like... Oh I should have asked a question about this, about that, .... and on and on the interrogation goes.

 

At some point it has no longer to be an interrogation, but a joint conversation about healing. If I was already there, i wouldn't force a polygraphy on her, and my WW would definately say to me, "alright, Ill do the poly, Ill answer all your questions, but if I pass, the interrogations end." And I think she would have a valid point.

 

 

 

When is that polygraph?

 

You keep stating that you intend to find out her truth by means of polygraph - yet you haven't done it.

 

 

When is it?

[fellini]

The difference is she is seeing it too and is taking steps to correct it. When I say she does not want to be that person, I mean she really does not want to be that person.

 

 

As Esther Perel says about modern day infidelity:

 

Perel: We don’t know the exact numbers because people lie about sex and 10 times more about adultery. But the vast majority of people we come into contact with in our offices are content in their marriages. They are longtime monogamists who one day cross a line into a place they never thought they would go. They remain monogamous in their beliefs, but they experience a chasm between their behavior and their beliefs. And what I am going to really investigate in depth is why people are sometimes willing to lose everything, for a glimmer of what?

 

Slate: And what’s your best guess from your research so far?

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often: Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t so much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

[Hope Shimmers]

You will not find truth in a polygraph. You will only find out some things based on the questions you can ask that can be properly gaged.

 

What you seem to be doing right VBM is getting the truth to come from inside her. When she can say something that resonates with you and feels honest and forthcoming without interrogation, you will see that a phase in this process has passed and this will take a huge weight of doubt off your shoulders.

 

Personally I wouldn't put this to a poly because as soon as it's finished I can imagine running through my head things like... Oh I should have asked a question about this, about that, .... and on and on the interrogation goes.

 

At some point it has no longer to be an interrogation, but a joint conversation about healing. If I was already there, i wouldn't force a polygraphy on her, and my WW would definately say to me, "alright, Ill do the poly, Ill answer all your questions, but if I pass, the interrogations end." And I think she would have a valid point.

 

I could not disagree more with this.

 

First of all, the word 'interrogation' implies VBM is irrationally and unfairly demanding she answer questions when that is not the case. She SHOULD be answering any questions he has, now or later. She is in absolutely no position to be giving HIM ultimatums (referring to your last paragraph).

 

Second, that's not how polygraphs work. The questions are developed well ahead of time with cooperation of BOTH parties so she will be aware of what she is going to be asked. So there is plenty of time to decide what to ask and not ask. Plus, again, it's not an 'interrogation'.

 

Third, you are forgetting about the power of parking lot confessions. Right now she is hoping against hope that this poly will never happen (and I'm guessing it won't). But if she were to find herself in the position of actually having to go through it, she might have to move on to Plan B.

 

From what I read, polys aren't necessarily ways of revealing new truths but should be used in conjunction with confession/reconciliation to verify what she has already been asked.

 

The entire problem is that VBM is assuming her statement about being "willing" to talk about the previous A (and to evaluate her statement about there being no other As) during a poly. Huge mistake to believe that from a person with a history of lying and manipulation, IMO.

[fellini]

I stand behind every word. A polygraph is not a conversation between consenting adults. As soon as it's over he will still be where he is today and thinking about the questions he didn't ask.

 

 

I could not disagree more with this.

 

First of all, the word 'interrogation' implies VBM is irrationally and unfairly demanding she answer questions when that is not the case. She SHOULD be answering any questions he has, now or later. She is in absolutely no position to be giving HIM ultimatums (referring to your last paragraph).

 

Second, that's not how polygraphs work. The questions are developed well ahead of time with cooperation of BOTH parties so she will be aware of what she is going to be asked. So there is plenty of time to decide what to ask and not ask. Plus, again, it's not an 'interrogation'.

 

Third, you are forgetting about the power of parking lot confessions. Right now she is hoping against hope that this poly will never happen (and I'm guessing it won't). But if she were to find herself in the position of actually having to go through it, she might have to move on to Plan B.

 

From what I read, polys aren't necessarily ways of revealing new truths but should be used in conjunction with confession/reconciliation to verify what she has already been asked.

 

The entire problem is that VBM is assuming her statement about being "willing" to talk about the previous A (and to evaluate her statement about there being no other As) during a poly. Huge mistake to believe that from a person with a history of lying and manipulation, IMO.

 

Of course a lie detection session is an interrogation. She has to answer all the questions, she is hooked up to a machine, and she does not get to put context or elaborate or discuss anything. Nor does he have to plug in and answer her questions. It is a one sided question and answer. This is an interrogation. If you wish to believe by that I mean he is the gestapo fine. But anyone who suggests a lie detection test is just an innocent test and is not in itself a form of questionable manipulation is clearly kidding themselves. Have you actually been hocked up to a lie detector?

 

Falling back on the parking lot confession is for me a huge moral issue. I'm not going to say anything more about it. It takes a very special kind of person to count on parking lot confessions as a treatment for the person they supposedly love more than life itself.

 

No, the whole thing s makes of entitlement to me. The end result does not justify the means anymore than an affair is justified by blaming the spouse. This is really ugly thinking within the context of a marriage and frankly it's making me sick hearing justifications for using polygraphs.

Edited April 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[Rainbowlove]

I don't know maybe it's just me, but if we actually have to get into a polygraph to determine truth, maybe the marriage is too far gone.

 

It just seems very Jerry Springish to me.

 

But to each his or her own.

[Hope Shimmers]

Falling back on the parking lot confession is for me a huge moral issue. I'm not going to say anything more about it. It takes a very special kind of person to count on parking lot confessions as a treatment for the person they supposedly love more than life itself.

It takes a very special kind of person to put the person they supposedly love more than life itself in the position of having to either blindly trust them after being lied to and deceived, or find other ways to come to that trust. He didn't put her in this position. That's all on her.

Edited April 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[beach]

The poly is useful for the basic knowledge of understanding the first affair she had. Was it physical when she only admitted to an EA?

 

We know she only admitted this A because he had facts.

 

She offered a poly and a post nup to him and he keeps delaying both.

 

I think there is value in getting both done.

 

 

But I am getting the feeling the OP doesn't really want her truth - even if he finds out more he won't change anything.

[William]

Folks, let's focus on this update from the thread starter and keep any debate respectful and collaborative to assist the thread starter in resolving their issues. Thanks in advance for your cooperation with this moderation directive.

[Bohonia]

I feel for you, what you are going through is NOT easy. May you have support of friends and family. Her conversation with him was her truth she was not coerced into saying what she did. She may be a model citizen right now but I would be very weary.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I slept better last couple of nights than I have in a week or two. Reconciling is not a pretty process but other than last weekend I think it's getting easier. Her affair is not the first thing I think of when I wake up and it's not he last before going to sleep either.

 

I've read everything all of you have posted but here are some points:

 

1. She has been NC since I asked. That says a lot to me.

 

2. She takes concrete steps each day to change who she has been and none of the issues prior to the affair have been surfacing.

 

3. It's been 7 months and I forgot the monthly anniversary of dday again this month. I think that shows a lot of healing.

 

4. I do care for her but my love has been severely damaged and I don't feel "in love" much if at all. But she is doing things that make me want to get that feeling back. I'm willing to give it time to see if it comes back. And the upside is I don't feel vulnerable if things don't work out. Maybe that's a built in defense mechanism.

 

5. I want to try to reconcile and she is adamant about it. She is not taking no for an answer and she is doing everything possible to make that happen. She is a great companion and always has been.

 

6. There was never a single mention by either of them in the texts and phone calls about any type of future together for them. That leads me to believe that this was more about sex and passion with someone new rather than wanting to leave me. She has a high sex drive and I tend to believe that it was more about sex than she admits to herself or to me. This study seems to confirm that is common:

 

Middle-aged women missing passion (and sex) seek affairs, not divorce -- ScienceDaily

 

7. All the things she said during that last phone call were probably the truth as she saw it at that moment in time. Many things are said that we do not really feel. I'm certain at the time she did regret getting caught but from her actions since that she regrets the affair in a profound way.

 

8. I read a book on trauma treatment several months ago:

 

FAST & EASY Emotional TRAUMA & PTSD Treatment by Ivan G. Petarnichkit

 

and I realized when I re-read it last week that I've been using some of the methods the past few months and it does work. For anyone having flashbacks and difficulty dealing with negative emotions and mind movies it's worth the price and hope it can help someone.

 

Perel: I can tell you right away the most important sentence in the book, because I’ve lectured all over the world and this is the thing I say that turns heads most often: Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t so much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become.

I think that is probably spot on in our case. Here is the rest of what Ester has to say and it's worth a read:

 

Esther Perel on affairs: Spouses in happy marriages cheat and Americans don?t understand infidelity.

 

 

So the relationship has calmed down the past couple of days and we are stumbling forward one day at a time.

[JohnAdams]

4. I do care for her but my love has been severely damaged and I don't feel "in love" much if at all. But she is doing things that make me want to get that feeling back. I'm willing to give it time to see if it comes back. And the upside is I don't feel vulnerable if things don't work out. Maybe that's a built in defense mechanism.

 

This is certainly your most telling statement. If you do not feel in love anymore, what are you trying to save? I understand the loss of trust, dissappointment, hurt and anger, but, if the love is gone......it is over.

[VeryBrokenMan]

This is certainly your most telling statement. If you do not feel in love anymore, what are you trying to save? I understand the loss of trust, dissappointment, hurt and anger, but, if the love is gone......it is over.

 

Apparently my IC says it's common and not to worry about it as it means nothing. She explains that your emotions are amped up and raw for several months after an affair and then they crash and you don't really feel much. I'm in the bottom of that right now I think.

[JohnAdams]

Apparently my IC says it's common and not to worry about it as it means nothing. She explains that your emotions are amped up and raw for several months after an affair and then they crash and you don't really feel much. I'm in the bottom of that right now I think.

 

The reason I stayed with my wife after her affair was because I loved her. I sometimes wished I did not, that would have made the decision easier. I remember my wife saying numerous times, love may not be enough, when trying to reconcile. However, it was the one thing that kept us together. I cannot imagine as a BS, trying to save a marriage to someone that I no longer loved.

[fellini]

The reason I stayed with my wife after her affair was because I loved her. I sometimes wished I did not, that would have made the decision easier. I remember my wife saying numerous times, love may not be enough, when trying to reconcile. However, it was the one thing that kept us together. I cannot imagine as a BS, trying to save a marriage to someone that I no longer loved.

 

I think you were lucky then John. I too went through a period, a short one, I don't recall at what point and for how long, when I felt or thought I felt that I didn't love my WS any more. And I was thinking to just walk away from it all. I remember saying Ill just hang out for a bit so as not to cause massive problems in my daughter being mid course in school.

 

But that feeling passed, and it was one of the reasons I was glad I gave myself these mini time lines - 3 month periods - because that helped me through a very long period of "I'm done, I'm leaving / I'll stay, it's worth fighting for". I began to recognize these ups and downs about staying and going as something outside of my control, and learned to just swim with the current, not against it, but not letting those strong single emotionaal "outbursts" define me or my objectives.

[drifter777]

The reason I stayed with my wife after her affair was because I loved her. I sometimes wished I did not, that would have made the decision easier. I remember my wife saying numerous times, love may not be enough, when trying to reconcile. However, it was the one thing that kept us together. I cannot imagine as a BS, trying to save a marriage to someone that I no longer loved.

I don't know what you mean when you say "I loved her" - really, I don't. Do you mean the 'I'm crazy about her & can't live without her" thing? If it is then I stopped "loving" my wife - the crazy, romantic love - when she cheated. She drove it out of me and it never came back. I was committed to staying married to her for a lot of reasons, but none of them were "I love her".

 

My idea of love is going to work every day to support my family. It's helping with chores around the house. It's being a good father to the children. Its being loyal and reliable. Its both enjoying and providing companionship with her. These things make me a good husband.

 

For me, love is something that is demonstrated by actions as opposed to some magic feeling inside. So I "love" providing for my wife and family in a physical and emotional way.

Edited April 22, 2015 by drifter777

[understand50]

Love comes and goes in a marriage. It does in mine. You cannot feel the same all the time. I think too many people expect to feel the first hot love they had all the time, and don't, and then it causes problems. I think this is normal to run hot and cold. Give it time, as she shows she is changing, you will feel different. In reading everything you wrote, I see that you defend her, and are trying to understand her, to find out just what happened and why it did. It is not the writing of a man who does not care, or love his wife. Maybe that is why it is so hard for you.

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