Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[VeryBrokenMan]

So there are times you don't share how this makes you feel. And how is she supposed to know how you feel if you're not telling her?

 

And why do you think it's useful to stay quiet when you have unresolved feelings about this?

 

It looks like you think you need to protect her from what SHE'S created... Why is that?

 

It's not that I think it's useful, it's just seems it's the path of least resistance. I know it's not the right way to move forward and I'm certainly not doing that for her or to protect her. Most of the time I just don't feel like talking about the same issues over and over. She knows I'm hurt and that I have triggers all the time. She gets that and she comforts me even before I know I'm having a problem with something. I'm sure at times she would like me to talk more about things. But most of the time I think I just have to accept that I feel that way, I'm never going to change those feelings and I need to allow myself to move past those feelings. She can't really do that for me, I have to want to move past the anger, hurt, whatever you want to call it. This is truly like hell on earth, she desperately wants me to heal and be truly happy again, I want to heal, we are doing what we can to get there but it's like a black cloud that just won't go away at times.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I TOTALLY understand this. It's so much work, though the reluctance is NOT about being lazy. To engage your spouse when something comes up, a trigger, that starts the brooding again, you can either stay with it yourself, save it for IC or engage your spouse.

 

If you stay with it yourself, you start slipping lower and lower into that sinkhole of what your spouse did behind your back. If you save it for IC, you deal with it all right but without, or even in spite of, your spouse, which leaves him/her in the same limited place of understand. With either of those, s/he will happily not talk about it and proceed to live in a present of superficial mundanities.

 

If you engage with your spouse, most likely you have to get your own head and emotions in the right place, which is a real tight-rope act. On the one hand you are talking to someone about a heinous act of cruelty the person committed and probably does not enjoy discussing, yet you must ask in such a way that s/he will want to listen and feel your pain, a pain s/he caused. You must make yourself vulnerable enough to share genuinely and accurately in such a way that the conversation will be productive without crushing either of you.

 

Work.

 

You are completely right. It is a LOT of hard work and it's a lot of thinking about what to say and how to say it so that BOTH of us can benefit from the exchange. There is nothing easy or simple about this process.

 

Reconciliation takes two people that can get outside of their head and see the big picture of what BOTH need, want and desire. And to be able to both see and accept reality and the ugliness that it is. But BOTH people spouses have to do that and both have to be willing to change to meet in the middle.

 

Prior to her affair she was on a pedestal and could do no wrong in my eyes. I see now how selfish and self centered she has been most of our marriage and how that self centered view of our relationship has caused so many problems that we are just now realizing. It's like a huge spotlight has been thrown over us and all the flaws are visible. I've always known I've had flaws (because she has been more than willing to point them out) and I've worked hard to fix them in the past. But the huge win for us both is that she now see's all the flaws in herself like she never has.

 

Until now she has never been willing to admit even small problems with her own actions and has never been willing to change. Since her affair all that changed in a big way for the better. The gloves came off after dday and every time I see an issue she knows about it. Her reaction at first was shock and denial but then a gradual shift stated and she started recognizing when she was behaving badly or selfishly before I said anything. When I say she hates herself for being that way, I mean she really really hates that she has been that person. I believe she had also placed herself on a pedestal and could do no wrong in her own eyes. The shift in her thinking has been nothing short of amazing, but none of that change resolves what she did or how she acted in the past. So it's my role at this point to move past the old issues and the affair and look to the future and what it can be.

 

I loved and adored the woman she was flaws and all, how could it be anything but better with her new found selflessness and focus on me that she has been working on so hard? Real change from her is was a minimal requirement for me to remain married and I set that expectation early on and I'm getting that change. But the hard part is navigating all these changes and discussions so that BOTH parties are getting what they need. This is not an easy or quick process and at times I wonder if it's worth the effort or if once things settle down if we will be right back to the old ways.

 

Hard work.

[merrmeade]

... at times I wonder if it's worth the effort or if once things settle down if we will be right back to the old ways.

yeah, me too.

[Cephalopod]

I think things will start going much more smoothly for your reconciliation when you take her off that pedestal you have her on.

 

It is hard for a woman to work at living up to her husband's view of her as a peerless goddess.

[fellini]

Unless she is a narcissist, and molded him into doing that for her. :-)

 

I think things will start going much more smoothly for your reconciliation when you take her off that pedestal you have her on.

 

It is hard for a woman to work at living up to her husband's view of her as a peerless goddess.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I think things will start going much more smoothly for your reconciliation when you take her off that pedestal you have her on.

 

It is hard for a woman to work at living up to her husband's view of her as a peerless goddess.

 

If you think I still have her on the pedestal you've not been reading my posts the last few months.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Unless she is a narcissist, and molded him into doing that for her. :-)

 

Her narcissism is clear as day now and it's pretty sad but once the kids were grown I became her narcissistic supply almost exclusively. And when I was not enough she got it from her AP. She is still trying to understand the complexities of that(and so am I) and it's tough because when you are a narcissist you cannot see those traits clearly.

[turnera]

Have you guys considered the State of the Marriage meeting? I often recommend it for recovering couples. You agree to have a weekly (or monthly if things are going smoothly) meeting, say on Sunday night, for 30-60 minutes. In it, you are both free to discuss any issues you've noticed over the week, any feelings you've had, any questions, and any good things you've experienced. You both make a vow to NEVER allow it to get ugly - that is your SAFE meeting, where you sit and listen to the other person, discuss solutions/strategies, and walk away to think about what you've learned in that hour.

 

Doing this allows you to focus the rest of the week on ENJOYING each other in a safe environment.

[Cephalopod]

If you think I still have her on the pedestal you've not been reading my posts the last few months.

 

Oh I beg to differ sir. You are her biggest fan. Your posts drip with it. You just don't see it.

[merrmeade]

Her narcissism is clear as day now and it's pretty sad but once the kids were grown I became her narcissistic supply almost exclusively. And when I was not enough she got it from her AP. She is still trying to understand the complexities of that (and so am I) and it's tough because when you are a narcissist you cannot see those traits clearly.

Yes, also familiar. A huge relief to name it and agree on it though I'm careful not to overtalk it. Still, there's no right position—being the "supply" or not. If you don't , that becomes the #1 excuse to go elsewhere for it.

[turnera]

So her IC has diagnosed her with narcissism and she accepts that diagnosis?

[fellini]

So her IC has diagnosed her with narcissism and she accepts that diagnosis?

 

Not sure you can diagnose someone "with" narcissism. There is something called NPD, which is attained through a diagnostic tool.

 

We all have narcissistic capacities, tendencies, exhibit it etc. The question is if these narcissistic tendencies are stronger, more pronounced or greater in number in some than in others.

 

A narcissist needs a primary supply, but also needs secondary supply. Sometimes when encountering secondary NS, the Narcissist begins to see the secondary as more capable of providing some of the primary needs, and transfers his/her primary over to the secondary. But at no time are we calling this person, necessarily NPD. Only qualified people can make that diagnosis, and even then, there are some disagreements about the efficacy of the diagnosis.

[understand50]

Not sure you can diagnose someone "with" narcissism. There is something called NPD, which is attained through a diagnostic tool.

 

We all have narcissistic capacities, tendencies, exhibit it etc. The question is if these narcissistic tendencies are stronger, more pronounced or greater in number in some than in others.

 

A narcissist needs a primary supply, but also needs secondary supply. Sometimes when encountering secondary NS, the Narcissist begins to see the secondary as more capable of providing some of the primary needs, and transfers his/her primary over to the secondary. But at no time are we calling this person, necessarily NPD. Only qualified people can make that diagnosis, and even then, there are some disagreements about the efficacy of the diagnosis.

 

Her name is Ann. She is a real live person. From what VBM has stated, in the past she was self centered, and he put her on a pedestal. They both have changed. I have seen that we tend to take limited information about a WS and run with it until it makes no sense. VBM is working trough his emotions, and trying to come to a place of peace. I hope and think he will get there. His wife is doing all she can to help and be remorseful.

 

Myself, I try and give encouragement and advise, when asked, based on my own experience. It is up to VBM to take what he needs from what we say. We, as a group, should respect his choice, reconciliation, and offer advise on his situation at this time. He will let us know if this changes.

[VeryBrokenMan]

So her IC has diagnosed her with narcissism and she accepts that diagnosis?

 

Narcissism taken to the extreme is NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and that is the only thing that someone could be diagnosed with but you don't have to have NPD to be narcissistic. Some narcissism is good and most people have some degree of narcissism, it's when it starts to affect your relationship with others that it becomes a problem. She does not have NPD but does have strong narcissistic tendency's as most cheaters do. She does see those tendencies have created problems but as I said it's a complex set of thinking and behavior that is not easily seen in yourself or corrected. She fully accepts that she has issues and problems in her thinking and behavior that have created problems for us even prior to the affair. Whether those issues are narcissism or not does not matter, she is working hard to correct those things.

[Furious]

Geez...VBM

 

It's as though your identity is all wrapped up in dealing with your wife's issues, which as you've said has been something you've been dealing with throughout your marriage , even before her cheating on you.

 

It's like "death by a thousand cuts" until you've been left with no self esteem.

 

In a weird way, you seem to be invested in your wife fixing herself and by default it will fix you. Seems that after many years of being made to feel small in your wife's opinion you've become her shadow and it has always been about her.

 

I worry that this is your normal. You are clear about her faults, you know it, you see it, you've lived it. In a way, it's as though your identity is wrapped up as a co-dependant. Maybe, being the rational one, the practical one, the one who is the rock is difficult to give up. So much invested for so little returned.

[fellini]

Im not sure anyone here can claim to know a poster based on their need to come in here and focus on a crises in their life. Like VBM my life is much much bigger than it might seem to be in LS. Im sure he has other things he invests in in his one life to live. Do you think he has the right to assume this and focus on his problem? We have seen this in other threads where a WW, for example, who is trying to rid herself of her AP, is accused of thinking more about her AP than her husband because "all she talks about is her AP". I think people have a right to keep other parts of their lives hidden from LS. I know I do.

 

It's important to remember that these short posts cannot tell anything close to the whole story.

 

Geez...VBM

 

It's as though your identity is all wrapped up in dealing with your wife's issues, which as you've said has been something you've been dealing with throughout your marriage , even before her cheating on you.

 

It's like "death by a thousand cuts" until you've been left with no self esteem.

 

In a weird way, you seem to be invested in your wife fixing herself and by default it will fix you. Seems that after many years of being made to feel small in your wife's opinion you've become her shadow and it has always been about her.

 

I worry that this is your normal. You are clear about her faults, you know it, you see it, you've lived it. In a way, it's as though your identity is wrapped up as a co-dependant. Maybe, being the rational one, the practical one, the one who is the rock is difficult to give up. So much invested for so little returned.

[Furious]

Im not sure anyone here can claim to know a poster based on their need to come in here and focus on a crises in their life. Like VBM my life is much much bigger than it might seem to be in LS. Im sure he has other things he invests in in his one life to live. Do you think he has the right to assume this and focus on his problem? We have seen this in other threads where a WW, for example, who is trying to rid herself of her AP, is accused of thinking more about her AP than her husband because "all she talks about is her AP". I think people have a right to keep other parts of their lives hidden from LS. I know I do.

 

It's important to remember that these short posts cannot tell anything close to the whole story.

 

i didn't direct my post to you but you seem to feel you can speak for others.

It's important to remember it's a public forum and you cannot speak on behalf of the poster who is being addressed.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Furious

[fellini]

Well Im glad to see you edited out your comment that I was threadjacking.

Actually my participation in this and any thread in LS is consistent with everyone else who posts in here. That you should single me out is merely personal.

 

i didn't direct my post to you but you seem to feel you can speak for others.

It's important to remember it's a public forum and you cannot speak on behalf of the poster who is being addressed.

[Furious]

Well Im glad to see you edited out your comment that I was threadjacking.

Actually my participation in this and any thread in LS is consistent with everyone else who posts in here. That you should single me out is merely personal.

 

Not personal at all, I am addressing the OP and you quote me and address me. Truth is, if I wanted your opinion I'd ask for it, but I guess you cannot resist singling me out. Seems you have it backwards.

 

As it is, the important thing is the OP and his situation, I apologize VBM for being drawn into a thread jack.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Furious

[VeryBrokenMan]

So I took a polygraph yesterday.

 

I've been struggling with the decision to ask my wife to take a polygraph about some issues that I still have doubts about. She has said she was willing to several months ago but when I talked to the operator then he advised me to give it a few months. I've read a lot from both sides about the accuracy of them. The voices on both sides are adamant that polygraphs are totally accurate or totally not.

 

So last week I made up a list of 11 questions knowing that I was going to lie about several of them. Since there is more than enough noise on both sides of the accuracy statements I wanted to try it for myself before using a polygraph to decide anything.

 

The polygraph operator that I used works for the local FBI office and has a thriving business of about 17 years and he is licensed by the state. I called three of his references, two were employers that use it to screen employees and one was a local FBI agent. All had glowing things to say about his tests and services.

 

I got to his office and was pretty nervous for some reason, I guess because I knew I was going to lie and was trying to remain calm. I led him to believe that I had been accused of having an affair but had not and wanted to prove it. He talked to me about the questions prior to hooking me up to make sure he understood the questions and to make sure I understood the questions.

 

So then he applied the sensors and we started the polygraph. After that initial session which lasted about 30 minutes and was more chit-chat than anything I was calm and relaxed and then he got to the 11 questions.

 

He asked about ten questions that he knew the answer to: name, age, address, things like that. All showed I was telling the truth. Then he covered my questions.

 

1. Are you going to be 100% truthful in answering these questions?

 

Me: yes (lie) Poly: truthful

 

2. Was your wife the first women you had sexual relations with?

 

Me: yes (lie) Poly: truthful

 

3. Do you or have you had romantic feelings for any woman other than your wife since you've been married?

 

Me: No (truth) Poly: truthful

 

4. Do you love your wife?

 

Me: Yes (truth) Poly: truthful

 

5. Do you want to remain married to your wife?

 

Me: yes (truth) Poly: inconclusive (may be inaccurate because of circumstances?)

 

6. Have you had any type of emotional connection or affair with any woman other than your wife since you've been married?

 

Me: Yes (lie) Poly: truthful

 

7. Have you had any intimate contact of any type with a women other than your wife?

 

Me: No (truth) Poly: inconclusive

 

8. Are you having an affair or have you since you've been married?

 

Me: No (truth) Poly: inconclusive

 

9. Have you ever kissed a women other than your wife since you've been married?

 

Me: No (truth) Poly: deception

 

10. Have you ever given or received oral sex from anyone other that your wife since you've been married?

 

Me: No (truth) Poly: deception

 

11. Have you ever had sex with another women other than your wife since you've been married?

 

Me: No (truth) Poly: deception

 

After it was over he asked me to wait in the waiting room. He took a little while in reviewing the results and then called me back in and gave me the bad news. He apologized and said the test showed deception and gave me the results question by question. I listened and thanked him and left.

 

Looking back I really feel like he had decided in that first 30 minute chit chat session that I was a lair and cheater and he made the test results match his gut feel. He got it right in a way, I was lying from the moment I walked in the door, but not about the things he said I was lying about. I think when he got to question 6 and I admitted an emotional connection (even though I was lying) that was all he needed to bust me on the rest of the questions.

 

So all in all a dismal showing for a polygraph being anything but a show. I can see there is some weight in "parking lot confessions" but as far as getting any truth from one I'm now a pretty big skeptic. I would urge anyone that is contemplating having their cheating spouse take a polygraph to take one first. I can't imagine basing life decisions on the outcome of one after my experience but maybe it was just me. I can see why they don't allow them in court now, I suspect a few lawyers tried them, saw the poor results and said no way.

 

Had this been legit and my wife wanted to prove or disprove anything about an affair it would have been unjust and potentially destroyed a marriage for no reason. I hope this helps someone out there, at the very least take one yourself before putting any weight to what they say.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Geez...VBM

 

It's as though your identity is all wrapped up in dealing with your wife's issues, which as you've said has been something you've been dealing with throughout your marriage , even before her cheating on you.

 

It's like "death by a thousand cuts" until you've been left with no self esteem.

 

In a weird way, you seem to be invested in your wife fixing herself and by default it will fix you. Seems that after many years of being made to feel small in your wife's opinion you've become her shadow and it has always been about her.

 

I worry that this is your normal. You are clear about her faults, you know it, you see it, you've lived it. In a way, it's as though your identity is wrapped up as a co-dependant. Maybe, being the rational one, the practical one, the one who is the rock is difficult to give up. So much invested for so little returned.

 

The bad things in our past history are amplified since the affair and that is totally normal according to my IC. But I do look back and see I had a huge return from her over the years and see someone I want to be with or I would not be. She was/is a great companion that loves life and is usually having a good time. Just because she has issues that have cause problems does not mean I don't value her (or myself). Everyone has flaws and she has more than most, but she can change and is willing to change. That is what you have to focus on to move forward.

[Furious]

The bad things in our past history are amplified since the affair and that is totally normal according to my IC. But I do look back and see I had a huge return from her over the years and see someone I want to be with or I would not be. She was/is a great companion that loves life and is usually having a good time. Just because she has issues that have cause problems does not mean I don't value her (or myself). Everyone has flaws and she has more than most, but she can change and is willing to change. That is what you have to focus on to move forward.

 

VBM

 

I just read your post about you going for testing on how reliable a polygraph is. You put yourself through a polygraph to test it's reliability. It's like you're torturing yourself. i think you're a good man, I'm in your corner and I guess maybe you don't see it that way.

 

I wish you peace

[understand50]

 

 

Had this been legit and my wife wanted to prove or disprove anything about an affair it would have been unjust and potentially destroyed a marriage for no reason. I hope this helps someone out there, at the very least take one yourself before putting any weight to what they say.

 

Thanks for the experiment, it opened my eyes. I am glad you put it to the test on your own before having your wife use it. The sad truth, is that there will always " some issues that I still have doubts about." I suggest you talk to Ann when the time is right for both of you, but as I stated in my first post on this thread, she may not know as well.

 

You may get your answers someday, but you may have to accept that you will not know all. I think you are lucky that you know "most". When I get into a reflective state of mind, I remind myself of what I have now, and what I can have going forward, with the woman I love.

 

Thanks much for the test.

[drifter777]

I find it hard to believe that the tester allowed you to bring in your own questions - ones that you were completely prepared to answer in advance. Since your whole premise was to lie about lying I'm not sure how this would affect the test. Maybe he was prejudiced on your guilt after the "chit chat" - but you certainly got the result you wanted too.

[autumnnight]

Interesting...a polygraph is "torture," and yet it is suggested for WS every day.

 

So, by deduction I suppose that means we believe that WS are deserving of torture. Not that I'm surprised, it's just interesting.