Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[minimariah]

Thanks for all the thoughts and support.

 

take care of yourself, VBM. you already know a lot of people on here support you. take it easy, one day at a time.

[Seachan]

VBM,

 

On the Surviving Infidelity website, there is a thread devoted to Sexual Abuse Survivors/Spouses in their I Can Relate forum.

 

Some of their stories may shed some light on your wife's behaviors and maladaptive coping strategies.

 

They may also give you some idea of what the road to recovery and healing could look like for you and Mrs. VBM.

 

This is a difficult journey whatever you decide. Hang in there.

[understand50]

While I wouldn't be happy with people trying to goad him, I respectfully disagree. His head is likely a big jumble of "what should I do?". What he's doing by posting here is effectively crowdsourcing the brainstorming portion of this process. Some of it may be difficult for him to hear, but hopefully he'll get some takeaways and perhaps other aha! moments, good or bad.

 

Eric1, fellini,

 

As much as I like what you say Fellini, and I am in the Pro-Reconciliation camp, I do think VBM does need to hear all sides. Aliveagain, and others, do bring a certain mindset to the whole thing. That, said, many on LS do seem to stuck on the "divorce as the only way" mind set. Fellini, you and I know that there is another way, but it is not a easy road, and I do not look down at anyone who does not take it. I also think, moving to divorce, and not even think about the possibility of reconciliation, is wrong headed. It would be well, if "I am trying to reconcile and stay with my spouse", could be celebrated and not have the "you need to divorce" comeback at all times. I would also like to remind everyone that each of the stories, and experiences on LS are unique, and we can apply what we did, but in the end we are dealing with two individuals. What they are, what they can do, and what they get out of life is theirs alone.

 

VBM, looks to be of the mind to support Ann at this time. I do wish we could come up with more ideas to help, but his wife is profoundly ill, and will need some time to put herself back together. From what VBM has stated, and that is all we have, this full discloser will make it possible for both of them to move forward, and address all the issues in their marriage. In the end, both VBM and Ann, will need to do a lot of hard work to see this trough and still may divorce. I hope both know that the effort is worth it, even if the outcome is to live apart. I think they can make it, and stand ready to cheer, give my advise, for what it may be worth, and hope for the best for them.

[bigman1]

 

and again -- why do you find the story about the way VBM's W met her OM so hard to believe...? as a prosecutor, aren't you used to unbelievable stories in your career....?

 

I am no longer a prosecutor, just to be clear. I was one for well over a decade. Yes, I am used to unbelievable stories. The thing that I have learned is to question every story. Her story about abuse is not unbelievable. Little known fact: "acquaintance rape" is the most common. Most molestation and rape is done by someone known to the victim. Its her story about OM and the camming that I label unbelievable. Enough about me, this VBM's thread.

 

 

 

of course -- but it doesn't mean that she had lied about the abuse, too. abuse victims who develop disorders lie about... well, everything. it doesn't make their abuse any less real.

I have heard horrible, soul killing stories of abuse, so I don't denigrate anyone who has suffered through it. I've also heard lies about it, so I don't automatically assume its true.

 

 

VBM already said she had others viewing her on the site & that includes communication.

 

VBM has a lot on his plate. We know that she cheated once. Now, we are finding out that she was a web cam model. She was making money at it. Well, maybe that "bonus" money she shared with him was cam money. When he said he worked hard to maintain their lifestyle, well if she was making good money in the web cam business then where is that money? What did she use it for? Financial infidelity (if there is such a concept)

 

Is she really being truthful about everything affair related? Are these the only affairs that she had?

 

If he wants to R with this woman, that is his business. It won't be real R if she has been lying. Truthfully, it has not been real R at all since she has been lying about the number of affairs and her web cam stuff.

 

Good luck to him, because he's going to need it. AS it stands now, nothing she says can be trusted. If everything that she said is true, it is still square 1.

[velvette]

I've read some of your posts but I'm not in a state of mind today that I can respond. Maybe tomorrow I will be better and I can answer all your questions.

 

Thanks for all the thoughts and support.

 

 

Its more important for you to take care of yourself than to answer posts here.

 

 

If you are still feeling fight or flight type symptoms or shakiness, it might benefit you immensely to speak to your doc re some anti-anxiety meds to take the edge off that and help you think more clearly.

 

 

This is a huge mess that your W has thrown at you. Take things one step at a time. There is no need to solve everything in one day.

[beach]

Sorry for the question - but just wondering about legal logistics...

 

 

Let's say she earned a significant amount of money during the years she was exposing on that site - wouldn't she be obligated to pay taxes on that money? Did she not show that money coming in? How did she show it and keep that kind of money hidden from VBM?

 

And the money she's been handing over recently to VBM saying it was from closed escrows - is he sure that's where that money came from when she gave it to him?

[aliveagain]

I agree, she is not the same girl I married and that's getting more clear day by day. And I'm starting to feel like she is manipulating me but she is an amazing actress if that is the case.

 

This was posted around November of last year before half of the truth was even known. She is an actress, a porn actress, she performed live for money for thousands of men. I am sorry if this upsets some to read but it is the truth and VBM has to deal with this in real life. How do you accept the imbalance this true fact has created for VBM, he thought he married a virgin. Forward 27 years and he now discovers she's an internet star with one of the most recognized bedrooms/living room in America. His whole life was focused on pleasing her but this is how it turned out.

 

Just my opinion, get her all the help she needs regardless of how many years it takes, divorce her now, there is no way to balance this much of an imbalance. Marry her again when she is herself, that is if you both still like each other. There has been too much deception. She could have come clean when you caught her and O/M rather than dragging you through false reconciliation for another year. Look at the additional pain her selfishness has caused VBM.

[drifter777]

Hey VBM, have you been to IC yet? And do you think it will give you what you ned to undertake this bizarre, new journey with your spouse? I hope this and other pertinent questions are raised about how it will affect you, what you will need and how you should proceed.

 

One other thing I wanted to mention: That post by drifter (drifter?) about his wife's gambling addiction, well, about addiction — that was really just about the most helpful post you've gotten since the IC d-day imho. I just wanted to point out that, with your wife's narcissism you've got kind of a different genus of homo sapiens here and, no matter what she says or you think she understands, everything goes through a wildly different filter. You MUST read that post again and discuss at IC how to prevent relapses and stop enabling.

 

Good luck, dear man.

Thanks for referencing my post - I too hope VBM reads it again and discusses some of my points with his counselor. VBM - please pay particular attention to taking responsibility for her addiction and trying to control it. This alone is the single most damaging element of addiction. It can destroy the addicts loved ones and contributes exactly nothing toward her recovery. A big part of this is understanding that no matter the level of dedication and amount of effort she puts into recovery, she will relapse. And when she does, her acting out behavior will actually be accelerated from what it is now. Ask any addiction counselor for verification.

 

Many posters have provided the sentiment that "at least it's all out in the open". Why any BH would believe this is not rational. This is Trickle Truth. Granted, it seems more like a flood then a trickle - but it is that thing where new and horribly hurtful facts are exposed as you are trying so hard to move forward and reconcile. You have to expect more soul-crushing facts will be revealed over time. Maybe it's just the full details about some of the disgusting things she already revealed but it could be brand new pain.

 

If you are dedicated to "supporting" her right now, please don't feel that you are making a lifetime commitment like you thought you were when you married her. This thing of hers is very likely to ruin your life - that's just a fact. There could come a time when divorcing her could be the most therapeutic thing you could do for her. She will have to hit bottom before she is dedicated enough to change and she certainly has NOT hit bottom yet. No even close.

[BetrayedH]

As much as I want to believe VBM's wife's latest version of the story (and made a case for that in my last post), it's only wise for VBM to still do a gut check about what he believes and what makes sense. Unfortunately, I've seen too many cases where the wayward "finally" comes clean with everything and yet there is still another round of TT that happens yet again in the future.

 

As for my own gut (after trying to further digest the massive data dump that occurred), there are some things that appear sketchy. (1) It seems very odd that this is the one and only time that she chose to do a "private show" for someone from the cam site and that she just intended to strip but went further and had sex. It sounds like the usual "it was just one time" trickle-truth thay we see so often. Truly, this is potentially delving into the realm of prostitution. I'm left hoping that she's not actually just covering up what was really the big story - that she was doing this more routinely. (2) Going back and reading that damn transcript of her final conversation with the OM - that thing still doesn't sit well with me. She was obviously emotionally connected to the OM in that call and had no remorse.

 

At this point, I'd honestly be tempted to have a conversation with the OM to get his version of how they met and see how much it lines up with the wife's version. Hell, VBM can still threaten exposure if he wants.

 

What a mess. Lies, lies, and more lies.

[drifter777]

If there's an easy trail then why wasn't it discovered by the private investigator? How could something this big be overlooked by someone - VBM had said if she sneezed the PI would know. And if she is A and Other man is B ... Is it possible there were other B's she communicated with directly from that site? It's probable...especially if she loves the attention.

 

How many points of B are there? When did she use the site last?

 

It bring up a whole new host of questions.

It's not easy if you are not looking for it. The PI was looking for her behavior patterns, travel habits, and any contact's she made. This camgirl stuff was not on anyone's radar. If she would have went to a Vegas strip club and danced while he was tailing her than the focus of his investigation would have changed.

 

Assuming she is being truthful - that VBM can verify her presence on webcam sites - we can only imagine the length's she would go through to keep this secret. It sounds as though started doing the online stuff for most of the past 10 years as that industry grew up. There were probably many women wanting to sign up for this BUT they wanted some sort of guarantee that a particular region of the country did not have access to her room. This can be done and I would think the host company would get very good at screening the location of IP addresses and blocking them. All she would have to do is tell them the locations where she wants to be "exposed" and all others would have been blocked. Yes, there are IP spoofing techniques to get around this but 99.9% of people haven't a clue about it.

Edited July 28, 2015 by drifter777

[aliveagain]

My guess is the Vegas trip when she danced with another stripper all day was for her cam show. She probably went off the charts that day with her followers. Her girl on girl could also be part of her cam show, it seems to happen a lot on that site. Like I said, their marriage is one big lie and there is only one way to fix this.

Edited July 28, 2015 by aliveagain

[aliveagain]

VBM, if you listen to nothing else please listen to this, get away from her for a while so you can think for yourself without her manipulation. Take the time away from her to talk to some experts, professionals with infidelity experience, get yourself some help because you can't fix this. You are too codependent, you absolutely have to get away from her so you can think strait.

[autumnnight]

there is only one way to fix this.

 

Yep...and that way is whatever way VBM chooses.

[tcc7762]

I'm wondering what she did to facilitate her addiction pre- Internet,cell phones, digital camera/web cam etc.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Did not feel like working today and I just woke up from a 2 hour nap and feel better than I have in a few days. I thought I would answer some of your questions. Sorry I did not have the energy to copy and paste the questions but I think you will be able to tell the context from the answer.

 

1. She has been using the MFC site for a few years but only intermittently. She would use it for a few days or weeks and then be so ashamed she would delete her account and go cold turkey for months or years. She says she setup/deleted/setup her account several times. Overall she thinks she may have done at most 20 "private" shows where she got naked.

 

2. The tokens would build up in her account and the site would email her repeatedly to setup some type of payment method for what she had earned. Eventually she would delete her account and the tokens would go away. She says it was over a thousand dollars at times but she never really payed attention to it. She says she never took any money and that was a question on the polygraph.

 

3. The OM tried to talk her into using what is called a VPN to access the internet. Keep in mind he is a criminal and convicted rapist so he may have had a need anyway. She said he went on and on how using a VPN made you anonymous. She never did use one.

 

4. She only allowed a certain location to access her page and somehow his VPN made it look like he was coming from that area. It was pure luck that he saw her on the cam site and then stumbled onto her picture from his wife's Facebook.

 

5. She has not been on the cam site since the affair and has gone cold turkey for more than 9 months. She deleted all traces from her laptop just after dday. I looked at her laptop just before dday but did not find anything.

 

6. PI did not have access prior to dday to her laptop.

 

7. I'm supporting her for the present time as she deals with confronting this side of her. I've not decided any long term actions to take. Divorce is something that I will decide after she gets better. Regardless of what the IC says, I do not want her suicide on me and I won't add to her distress at this time. She is broken, we all know that but she really is a good and decent person and does not deserve any of this either. If you have never been raped at 11 then you really have no basis for making any comments on what she is or is not dealing with or how that affected her actions. Only someone that has been through that or has professional training has any insight into what that is like to deal with.

 

8. I was not ever abused or neglected as a child. It was a great childhood.

 

9. Yes, I am in shock still.

 

10. Yes I do feel guilty of a lot of things I have said to her and about her since the affair. She is clearly suffering and has suffered with this for a long time.

 

11. The "exposing" herself started in Vegas and that was just after when she started confronting what had happened to her at 11. Prior to that she says never had an issue. She was seeing an IC at the time but I thought it was about the kids. She says she never even admitted to herself she was raped until about age 35 it was that horrific to her. Then it was a gradual multi-year process to start to deal with it. When Vegas happened it was like that rape was made real and she realized she had a problem. The cam stuff started 3 or 4 years later and was very sporadic as she tried to deal with the rape.

 

12. We are both going to see the psychiatrist tomorrow. She has asked me to go with her and be there every step of the way. I have also starting seeing my IC again.

 

13. To clarify, she was raped just before her 13 birthday, prior to that it was being forced to show herself and the creep fondling her.

 

14. She wants to confront and expose the pervert that raped her very badly and I fully support that when she is ready.

 

15. She never campaigned to make that last phone call. After dday I wanted her to have closure and I told her she could call if she wanted, I was really still in shock. I just happned to talk to my PI right after I offered that call and he went ballistic and told me I needed to allow him to see what was talked about. I did and you know the rest.

 

16. The bond she had with him was all mixed up with the rape at 11. I'm not a professional but it sounds like Stockholm syndrome where the victims

fall for the captors.

 

17. Velvette said

The child was in charge. Her experience with him was probably the first time since she was raped that she felt loved for totally being herself....damaged and all. He tapped into all the secret shame/damage and told her she was ok. She didn't want to go live with him. Didn't love him in the adult sense, but felt bonded to/obligated to him because she felt he accepted her for who she was(feels like love and what most of us want....to be loved for who we are warts and all). Hard to give up, especially when she felt there was no way to get that from VBM without giving up her secrets which felt impossible/not survivable at that time.

This is very close to what the IC and my wife said in the session. You must have had some training or experience.

 

When people are raped as children and don't get the help they need to process whats happened to them, they are stuck in childhood. Their whole development process is stunted. There whole life is governed by keeping their secret because they see it as shameful. She was likely groomed to participate in her own abuse and/or threatened with death or harm to anyone she told. Adult rape victims have similar feelings...i.e. shame regarding whatever choices they made to survive. An adult can usually get help on their own and rationally understand that they were not to blame. A child does not have those resources unless they tell an adult who helps them. The shame that goes with all that is overwhelming. Someone who has that much shame feels unlovable. They hate themselves. How could anyone else love them? And then, she met OM who accepted her as she acted out all that shame(which is what many..not all...survivors of childhood rape...do...act out sexually...because it feels good......when they did it in childhood it stopped the abuse so temporarily it was over and they were rewarded somehow by the abuser)..........so because OM accepted how she acted out her shame and liked her for it, she felt cared about/loved for who she sees herself being.....nevermind its not who she really is or was meant to be. She would have felt some loyalty to him for being the person who made her feel loved. Hence she didn't want to just dump him unceremoniously. She cared about him because she felt in some twisted way that he cared about her. Its a dysfunctional reaction to trauma she has never healed from because she didn't tell anyone and get help.

Again, this is very similar to how this was explained by the IC. My wife is stuck in childhood and that explains many of her actions and choices not only with the affair but how child like she has been at times.

 

18. I had asked her in the distant past to masturbate in front of me and she always refused. She was never inhibited by anything else sexually and I never understood until now why it was such a problem.

 

19. There was not anything "new" in the revelations at the IC that rises to the level of her affair. The ONS with the stripper was a non event since she is not bisexual. I know it's probably just sexist but it really does not even feel like cheating to me. If she came to me tomorrow and said she wanted to do it again I would have no problem with it at all even given the affair. If she told me she was bisexual then that would change things a little but I'm not really a jealous type person so I'm not sure it would matter.

 

I see the rape and her need to expose herself now as being a victim and not being able to deal with it the right way. I want to see her whole again and I want her to recover.

 

What could I possibly tell our children if I divorced her now and she committed suicide? What would I tell her sister that knows all about it? There is a life at stake and anyone that thinks they could walk away from this is clearly not thinking clearly. I've said it before, sometimes you have to suck it up and be the bigger person and accept you were terribly wronged but then support the person that wronged you.

 

20. I know that there are many other women that are raped and abused as children and are able to deal with it. Unfortunately my wife is not one of them and so I'm going to support her while she gets better because that's the right thing to do. I can always decide a year or two or more if I want to spend the rest of our lives together. To be honest right now I don't think I want to remain married but I will not leave her in her time of need and I'm going to do what I can to change how I feel over the next year or two. I owe that commitment to our children and her family if nothing else.

 

21. She never once said during the session that the rape was an excuse for the affair. She went out of her way to say the exact opposite.

 

22. Depending on the time she would have 20 or so regulars that would visit with her. Apparently she could let them know when she was going to be there and they would show up. She would stay fully clothed and choose one of the guys that was nice to her to do the "private" shows. She says it was not about the sex, just exposing herself to a stranger and she would always pick a different guy each time except for a couple of times. The OM never had a private show on the site. When he contacted her he told her he knew her secret and at some level she was terrified that he would expose her. She said many times that fear of exposure was not an excuse for having the affair and she willingly met him for the live show. She has taken full ownership of the choice to have the affair and has not made any excuses.

 

23. I never found the camsite usage because she was careful to "cleanup" after herself on her laptop.

 

24. The Vegas trip predates her first cam show by years. Vegas is when the need to expose herself really took hold.

 

To those who have offered sympathy and hugs, thank you, they are felt and appreciated.

[autumnnight]

You are a truly and thoroughly good man, VBM. And that is a rarity these days.

[velvette]

VBM

 

 

I would be cautious of slapping all these labels on you or your W whether they come from you, her, experts or posters at LS.

 

 

Whether its narcissim, additiction, copendency, etc.

 

 

Not any one label defines your W or her behavior or your reaction to it. Becoming too focused on these labels can lead you down the wrong path.

 

 

The best outcome will be with a therapist who is more concerned about practical outcomes than one who is wedded to theoretical labels.

 

 

It may also make you and especially your W feel defeated before the really hard work is even started.

 

 

Unless you decide to D, you will likely not be able to fully commit to R until you see how she deals with therapy.

 

 

The good news is that unlike what others believe, there is a good chance of healthy outcomes if she is determined to see it through and you find a competent therapist because she will be starting knowing exactly where all this started......although there may be more prior that comes from family of origin. Theres a reason her rapist selected her as a victim.

 

 

Don't be surprised if there is more stuff she hasn't told you. It may or may not make much difference in the bigger picture. There may also be stuff that she has pushed so far down that she doesn't even remember it herself. Especially regarding the rape and maybe even stuff after.

[RightThere]

VBM:

You do whatever you need to do, and we'll be here to support you.

 

Take care.

[understand50]

sometimes you have to suck it up and be the bigger person and accept you were terribly wronged but then support the person that wronged you.

 

VBM,

 

Good Luck, you are showing true compassion and love.

[eric1]

VBM,

 

You have a great heart man. I'm really, really rooting for you.

 

If you would ever like assistance fleshing out the VPN thing I'd be happy to provide you with some questions. There is almost zero reason for someone to be using a VPN for [casual] web browsing purposes, outside of accessing regional services such as baseball games or international television. I have an IT firm that supports over 20,000 users and never have we once gotten a request or had a PC that had a VPN on it for any other purposes.

 

There is something to poke into here. I do not want to suggest it being malign or her being complicit in it, but this is a question that needs answering beyond what you've gotten.

[VeryBrokenMan]

You are a truly and thoroughly good man, VBM. And that is a rarity these days.

 

Thank you and everyone. I'm just trying to do the right thing for everyone involved.

[VeryBrokenMan]

VBM,

 

You have a great heart man. I'm really, really rooting for you.

 

If you would ever like assistance fleshing out the VPN thing I'd be happy to provide you with some questions. There is almost zero reason for someone to be using a VPN for [casual] web browsing purposes, outside of accessing regional services such as baseball games or international television. I have an IT firm that supports over 20,000 users and never have we once gotten a request or had a PC that had a VPN on it for any other purposes.

 

There is something to poke into here. I do not want to suggest it being malign or her being complicit in it, but this is a question that needs answering beyond what you've gotten.

 

Tell me more about the VPN thing, I'll see what I can find out.

[drifter777]

 

... Your wife is an addict and you are codependent. You are her apologist and her biggest supporter. You are her enabler. You need IC as badly as she does. You have to understand - I mean really understand and accept - a few things:

 

1) you CANNOT control her addiction. You need to learn and understand the ways you are now trying to control things.

 

2) you are both sick. As you recover you may get to a place where you are not able to accept the relationship with your wife any longer.

 

3) she is going to "fail" many times during her recovery. That is just the way it is.

 

... She's not going to stop doing this cold turkey. She'll tell you she will - and she will try very hard - but she is going to post more pictures or find a way to webcam again. I am not being negative about this - I am telling you how it is. You can't help her - this is all up to her wanting to change badly enough to stick with therapy through the ups and downs of recovery.

 

... IC is a must for you. Left to your own devices nothing will change and you will continue to suffer until you die.

Re-posted for emphasis. Work on this in the same way you would if she was an alcoholic and you have a chance to actually recover yourself and even help her with her recovery.

 

I have to ask: are you totally unwilling to accept the possibility that I (and others) are right? That all addicts swear they have quit, they swear they will change, and then they use again that very day? Their intentions are always right but remember - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Also, that you have become as sick as she is? That your enabling is no help to her as she struggles with her issues? Look, you cannot see this as clearly as those of us with much history with addiction - I know that. And you don't want to believe a word of what I'm saying. I'm just asking you to approach the problem from the addiction angle with your IC so you can become educated on this subject and break the enabling behavior. That behavior is so much a part of you it is impossible for you to see or accept. You have taken many leaps-of-faith on this journey so far and I hope you can take one more and talk to your counselor about this approach.

[velvette]

Thank you and everyone. I'm just trying to do the right thing for everyone involved.

 

I think you are doing the right thing.

 

 

I am a little concerned about you feeling you need to do this to prevent her from taking her own life and think you should discuss that with your therapist.

 

 

In the meantime, you might seriously consider removing the guns from your house since she mentioned using them.

 

 

As for my experience, my H was raped as a child same age as your W. Almost identical story of not telling me until around your W age many years into our M and and after serially cheating. I was also raped in my early 20's so while its not exactly the same as what a child goes through, a lot of it is the same.

 

 

The thing I really didn't hear you say is how you are going to take care of yourself, so I hope you are thinking about that and discuss with your therapist.

 

 

Your W is seriously damaged, but she's probably not as fragile as you may be thinking. It's ok to negotiate what you need in order to support her.

[autumnnight]

Tell me more about the VPN thing, I'll see what I can find out.

 

I'll go ahead and say that I have tried a variety of VPN's. It had nothing to do with camming or anything. It was to protect MYSELF from freaky, obsessed weirdos.

 

Some people use VPN to be able to view blocked sites. Some people use it to keep from being hacked or tracked. Some people do use it to hide their IP.

 

Thing is, these days it is not that hard to figure things out even with a VPN, which is why I eventually stopped using one. I got booted offline all the time (because I was using free/cheap ones), and after awhile, for me, I decided that I'd rather just confront certain things head on if need be than try to hide and be afraid 24/7.

 

I would say your WW likely used it to hide her IP and her location.