merrmeade Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I agree with your assessment but I wish I was half the man you give me credit for being. I just feel like this is bigger than just me and my needs at the moment and I need to fully support her at a time when she needs it. That does not mean I forgive her or that I think what she did was OK. Each days that passes I'm feeling like divorce is the best (or only) answer and I'm OK with that. But I'm not OK with destroying her in the process. In the long, long run, I'm glad that you are now out of the stasis you were in because you knew there was more to know. Now, you know it and you can move in some direction. You've been wise in how you've gone about gathering and weighing information. Give yourself credit for this, VBM. There are many, many things you've done right and will continue to do right because of what you've learned and how you are. This helps everyone in contact with you. It's what makes you every bit 'the man' you are - not 'half' by any measure. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 We usually take separate vacations and I had a couple of weeks planned for August but canceled plans last week. I honestly just don't feel like having fun right now. Marriages can never be healthy when there are separate vacations. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 I hope my comments did not give you the idea that I think you are only a good man if you ride all this out right next to her. I don;t know if that is possible - this is huge, and you MUST take care of yourself. I just admire that you do not dismiss her trauma and that you are willing to empathize with and have care for her despite her betrayal. How could any decent man dismiss a rape of of a little girl? That is far beyond my comprehension. That is where my comment came from because I think most men would be as compassionate and understanding as I've been. Are you really telling me I'm wrong and the world is full of men who do not see that as something that she had no control over and did not damage her in ways I can't comprehend having not been in that situation? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Marriages can never be healthy when there are separate vacations. Since the kids have been grown we usually took a couple of weeks and did our own thing. We also had just as many shared vacations. You see that as a problem? I guess I see that as healthy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 We are seeing the new specialist and taking it from there. Is your wife planning to go twice as much on her own? It really is hers to face head on... I admire you being supportive of her getting help and standing by her side while she sifts through her trauma... But it is hers to do. What is your role? How much is supportive? Where is the boundary of 'this is hers and not mine to handle, address and change'? I understand you participating in some level to support her but I'm just concerned that you might take on part of what is hers to deal with... Is there a plan? Will she go by herself first or are you going together? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 How could any decent man dismiss a rape of of a little girl? That is far beyond my comprehension. Have you read some of the responses to your wife's trauma on this very thread? Yeah, you're a very decent person. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is your wife planning to go twice as much on her own? It really is hers to face head on... I admire you being supportive of her getting help and standing by her side while she sifts through her trauma... But it is hers to do. What is your role? How much is supportive? Where is the boundary of 'this is hers and not mine to handle, address and change'? I understand you participating in some level to support her but I'm just concerned that you might take on part of what is hers to deal with... Is there a plan? Will she go by herself first or are you going together? I feel like I'm very in tune with what my role is and what she will be doing. I stopped letting her push things off on me and manipulate me about eight months ago and today we have a totally different relationship than we did even prior to the affair. It's all on the table, no conflicts are avoided, we speak our mind. The plan is to attend the first session together and get his recomendations. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Have you read some of the responses to your wife's trauma on this very thread? Yeah, you're a very decent person. I guess I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that since my wife was not there wife it was different. I can't imagine they would feel the same about their wife, daughter or sister. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Isn't it possible to copy any picture on the Internet and do a search on that picture? I think so... He may have taken a still photo of her face and searched her = and her face popped up as a match on a friend's Facebook page. That seems more likely to me. Seems kind of stalkerish of the OM if this is what happened. Is it possible that O/M's wife and your wife are Facebook friends and he saw your wife's birthday notice on his wife's Facebook and recognized her because he followed her on her cam site? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Marriages can never be healthy when there are separate vacations. Disagree. My husband and I travel together a lot (internationally twice a year as well as a handful of weekend get-aways every other month or so). But at least once a year, we each take a little vacation away - just for ourselves - to do those things that we enjoy as individuals that neither of us really appreciate doing (in my case, it is antiques and craft design galleries, which bores the heck out of my husband). 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I guess I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that since my wife was not there wife it was different. I can't imagine they would feel the same about their wife, daughter or sister. Good Point VBM. I am so tired of people who say, "If I were you I would, kick to the curb" or "never put up with that," etc. No one knows what they would do until they are in that situation. You can have an educated guess but you can't know. There are just way too many of us here that thought we would never,,, and then we did. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is it possible that O/M's wife and your wife are Facebook friends and he saw your wife's birthday notice on his wife's Facebook and recognized her because he followed her on her cam site? Yes that is exactly what happened. I thought I made that clear a couple of days ago? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
understand50 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 How could any decent man dismiss a rape of of a little girl? That is far beyond my comprehension. That is where my comment came from because I think most men would be as compassionate and understanding as I've been. Are you really telling me I'm wrong and the world is full of men who do not see that as something that she had no control over and did not damage her in ways I can't comprehend having not been in that situation? VBM, Don't sell yourself short. I think many men would just divorce, with the main idea being "life is short, I cannot put up with this" You have demonstrated, real compassion for her. She has hurt you, and you have not forgotten that, but you see she needs help, and is trying to make amends for her past actions. Divorce, will always be on the table in a marriage. Many reasons to seek it, but right now you have decided to stay and work though this with her. I would take divorce off the table for her right now, as I think that the idea of losing you, is one of the reasons she could not open up to you. The paradox, in all this is that we want to know everything, and then punish with divorce, when the truth comes out. You have broken that, and it is too your credit. Until something like this happens to you, you do not know how you will react. It helps that Ann has worked to show remorse, kept NC, and so fourth. Downside of course, is her keeping her deep dark past from you. BTW, did see also keep this from her own parent's? How sad she could not bring herself to seek help from the two people in the world a child had a right to expect unconditional love and support from. Originally Posted by VeryBrokenMan "Sometimes you have to suck it up and be the bigger person and accept you were terribly wronged but then support the person that wronged you." Accept the credit from us who draw inspiration from your compassionate and loving treatment of Ann. As always I wish you and Ann luck. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yes that is exactly what happened. I thought I made that clear a couple of days ago? Sorry, missed that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 VBM, Don't sell yourself short. I think many men would just divorce, with the main idea being "life is short, I cannot put up with this" You have demonstrated, real compassion for her. She has hurt you, and you have not forgotten that, but you see she needs help, and is trying to make amends for her past actions. Divorce, will always be on the table in a marriage. Many reasons to seek it, but right now you have decided to stay and work though this with her. I would take divorce off the table for her right now, as I think that the idea of losing you, is one of the reasons she could not open up to you. The paradox, in all this is that we want to know everything, and then punish with divorce, when the truth comes out. You have broken that, and it is too your credit. Until something like this happens to you, you do not know how you will react. It helps that Ann has worked to show remorse, kept NC, and so fourth. Downside of course, is her keeping her deep dark past from you. BTW, did see also keep this from her own parent's? How sad she could not bring herself to seek help from the two people in the world a child had a right to expect unconditional love and support from. Accept the credit from us who draw inspiration from your compassionate and loving treatment of Ann. As always I wish you and Ann luck. It's really so great to 'hear' compassionate, grown-up men talk to each other. I hadn't thought about WS's parents and all the other family members who could have, should have been there for her. She'll have to work through that in IC though—how, when and whom to tell. Heartbreaker. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I guess I gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that since my wife was not there wife it was different. I can't imagine they would feel the same about their wife, daughter or sister. My heart bleeds for all children who are abused. If my child were abused I would do everything in my power to support him/her as well as bring the perpetrator to justice. If my wife were to reveal that she was abused as child, I would support her and do what I could to get her the help she needs. If she cheated as an adult, she would be held accountable for her actions and would need to take responsibility for the harm done. She may have been abused, but her actions would still be a free will choice. She would get no free pass. Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I understand she may have had some messed up feelings and strange kinks that may or may not be secondary to the abuse. But did she still understand the ramifications of acting on those feelings and did she have other options available to her other than having sex with another woman and another man without her husbands knowledge and consent?? The answer to both of those questions is undeniably yes. As a childhood abuse victim, she was victimized and exploited through no fault of her own. Cheating behind her husbands back as a full grown adult was a conscious choice. Her feelings and kinks may not have been a choice, but her decisions to act on them were. Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So I guess what I'm saying is whether to continue to try to R or divorce is VBM's choice. He can be compassionate and supportive of her therapy for the abuse. But her abuse does not in any way excuse her actions as an adult nor does it negate her responsibility to do a ton of heavy lifting in the R process should they choose to R. And the revelation of her past abuse in no way obligates VBM to remain married to her if he believes it's in his better interests not to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So I guess what I'm saying is whether to continue to try to R or divorce is VBM's choice. He can be compassionate and supportive of her therapy for the abuse. But her abuse does not in any way excuse her actions as an adult nor does it negate her responsibility to do a ton of heavy lifting in the R process should they choose to R. And the revelation of her past abuse in no way obligates VBM to remain married to her if he believes it's in his better interests not to. I fully agree, and I don't remember reading any posts that say her trauma excuses her cheating. I did read some posts that implied A)she was lying and B)who cares 1 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 oldshirt: if you don't blindly support all of VBM's opinions and actions then you are just a hater. I guess. Anyway, I hope his dedication to supporting her during her therapy is not in the role of enabler. It's a tough thing to balance. There's also the unavoidable failures that she is going to experience during her therapy. This will likely hit VBM the same way that "conventional" trickle-truth hits a BH. Hitting bottom is the event that helps an addict gain the resolve to dedicate themselves to recovering. She hasn't been close to hitting bottom yet as VBM has been there to catch her every time she has fallen. Tough love is a tough thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 oldshirt: if you don't blindly support all of VBM's opinions and actions then you are just a hater. I guess. Anyway, I hope his dedication to supporting her during her therapy is not in the role of enabler. It's a tough thing to balance. There's also the unavoidable failures that she is going to experience during her therapy. This will likely hit VBM the same way that "conventional" trickle-truth hits a BH. Hitting bottom is the event that helps an addict gain the resolve to dedicate themselves to recovering. She hasn't been close to hitting bottom yet as VBM has been there to catch her every time she has fallen. Tough love is a tough thing to do. You bring up some good points. VBM, it might help you to attend CODA or alanon. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
eric1 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 This still doesn't "fit" to me. If she was doing this because she was raped, wouldn't this been used as a tool when it appeared that VBM was teetering on leaving her? I understand that some things take time to come out, but it just doesn't feel right to me, the timing is off. I'm not saying it's impossible, it sure have could come up in therapy sand her and her IC were hashing and rehashing it. What I'm saying is that it doesn't really fit a pattern. What I'm getting at is something happened. I think VBM still needs to dig into the nude picture on her phone. We're talking Scientific Method now - enter into a clean room and introduce variables. The nude picture is logically the only material variable to have been modified for some months (unless it was something we're ot privy to, again like a conversation or something) Link to post Share on other sites
Dutchman1 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is it possible that O/M's wife and your wife are Facebook friends and he saw your wife's birthday notice on his wife's Facebook and recognized her because he followed her on her cam site? You can put a pic of someone in tineye, and in seconds it will find if there's a connection/ result, even from social media and adult hookup sites. Also found out that most adult sites sell( yes sorry its true) pics and profiles to other sites. Other sites do put up profiles that are deleted / suspended in the original site. It's good for their business. They sometimes give the person another name. In the small print it says that the site is owner of all that was put up. Best of luck Dutchman 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dutchman1 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 VBM, Don't sell yourself short. I think many men would just divorce, with the main idea being "life is short, I cannot put up with this" You have demonstrated, real compassion for her. She has hurt you, and you have not forgotten that, but you see she needs help, and is trying to make amends for her past actions. Divorce, will always be on the table in a marriage. Many reasons to seek it, but right now you have decided to stay and work though this with her. I would take divorce off the table for her right now, as I think that the idea of losing you, is one of the reasons she could not open up to you. The paradox, in all this is that we want to know everything, and then punish with divorce, when the truth comes out. You have broken that, and it is too your credit. Until something like this happens to you, you do not know how you will react. It helps that Ann has worked to show remorse, kept NC, and so fourth. Downside of course, is her keeping her deep dark past from you. BTW, did see also keep this from her own parent's? How sad she could not bring herself to seek help from the two people in the world a child had a right to expect unconditional love and support from. Accept the credit from us who draw inspiration from your compassionate and loving treatment of Ann. As always I wish you and Ann luck. VBM For the last 35 + years I feel bad and ashamed, and wished I had half of your courage, patience and empathy. I take my hat off for you. Dutchman 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) You know, while this thread is wandering, at times into claims that folks don't care about child abuse victims and assorted other nonsense, the simple fact is this, VBM never was leaving his wife and never is. It's his choice. The truth of how the affair started and all facts thereto do not matter one bit to his decision. For some, the truth matters and determines if the relationship continues. For others, the relationship matters more. They've been together for 31 years. He's not going anywhere and facts don't really matter, and that is perfectly fine. Good for him. I will say this, there is a principle called Occam's Razor. If one employs it here, what seems most probable is that this started out as a regular FB affair. Mrs. VBM is FB friends with OM's wife and that is how they met. Things took off from there. If cam shows happened, it was AFTER the relationship took an improper turn or as it was taking one. He knew where to find her online because she told him and that led to the excitement of the cam shows between them. Maybe she was camming already, but the affair started before cam shows, not because of them. It does not matter to VBM, and that is absolutely his prerogative. Edited July 30, 2015 by bigman1 Link to post Share on other sites
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