Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[eric1]

I agree with you completely. VBM's wife has not told the truth about anything for a year, so one needs to obviously be skeptical about the timing of when she conveniently decided to start telling the truth. Also, by not telling the truth at all, you then shift the burden of proof from presumed innocence to presumed guilt, so I don't know why anyone would be giving her the benefit of the doubt on anything.

 

That doesn't mean she doesn't need help or that VBM should not exercise basic human empathy with her situation, but due to her actions she's lost the ability to use this as an excuse for her making VBM a victim.

 

In short, there is more to the picture than VBM is pushing for. The simple answer is usually the right answer, and the picture wasn't a 'momentary lapse' or something taken by mistake.

[Sassy Girl]

Velvette, I would never dream to tell other people how to handle a traumatic experience. This is exactly why I hesitated to post, because I knew someone would accuse me of this when it wasn't my intent.

 

What I'm having a real problem with is the fact that now, conveniently, after this photo revealed itself, she can suddenly "pull" that experience out. Do you not see that? If it has been so horrific that she could not deal with it or share it with her husband for the past 31+ years, then it's a bit odd for me to think that all of a sudden, now that she needs to come up with a reason for the photo, that she can suddenly "deal" with it enough for it to come out. I am willing to lay a bet that if that photo never would have shown itself, that VBM would not know about any of this now.

 

I'm just going to shut up, because everyone else wants for this all to work out and I am raining on the parade. Onward, everyone.

 

Are you suggesting that she is lying about the abuse, or just that it's convenient for her to bring it up now?

[velvette]

Velvette, I would never dream to tell other people how to handle a traumatic experience. This is exactly why I hesitated to post, because I knew someone would accuse me of this when it wasn't my intent.

 

What I'm having a real problem with is the fact that now, conveniently, after this photo revealed itself, she can suddenly "pull" that experience out. Do you not see that? If it has been so horrific that she could not deal with it or share it with her husband for the past 31+ years, then it's a bit odd for me to think that all of a sudden, now that she needs to come up with a reason for the photo, that she can suddenly "deal" with it enough for it to come out. I am willing to lay a bet that if that photo never would have shown itself, that VBM would not know about any of this now.

 

I'm just going to shut up, because everyone else wants for this all to work out and I am raining on the parade. Onward, everyone.

 

 

I don't have time to read back right now, but if I am not mistaken, VBM was told with the therapist present that she had been working on how to tell him all of this stuff for the last few months. I don't believe the therapist would lie about that. So, she has been dealing with it to some extent and didn't just become able to talk about it.

 

 

I do not separate what has happened to her from what she has done in her M. Its all related. Yes, it must be dealt with as two different things by VBM and her for that matter. She has to heal herself and then they have to heal their M or let it go.

 

 

As a child she made a choice to remain silent. For many years that worked for her(from her perspective). At some point that started unraveling and led to where she is now.

 

 

Having said all that, sure she may be hiding stuff still and/or lying to the therapist. I don't know but it would not shock me.

[velvette]

Are you suggesting that she is lying about the abuse, or just that it's convenient for her to bring it up now?

 

 

I don't know what Hope is suggesting, but I think it is safe to say that from Mrs. VBM's perspective, there was never going to be a convenient time to tell this secret. She was taking this to the grave if she could.

 

 

And, that is not unusual. She's not some rare exception or evil person because of it. Is she acting as a self serving child? Yes because the whole reason she came up with keeping this secret was to protect herself as a child. She's locked into that logic without help to grow, unravel it and integrate it into the rest of her adult self.

 

 

The first thing I learned after my H told me what happened to him was that not telling was as common as telling. My focus was of course on men, and men even more don't tell because of the stigma of same sex abuse. But, it is not at all uncommon for women not to tell.

 

 

Its rather ironic that one of the most frequently asked questions by BS is why? Here's a case where the answer is plain as day and as most people say it has nothing to do with VBM or the marriage......something very real was broken inside of her and needs to be fixed.

[autumnnight]

Just so it's clear, I have never "pardoned" Ann based on her abuse.

 

I just got sick of people poo poo'ing it and questioning if it even happened.

 

Apparently it's impossible to comprehend one can feel compassion AND know the A was wrong.

[turnera]

I hesitate to say this, because everyone seems to want to give her a pardon because of the abuse, but I just have had a huge problem with this because I don't understand how she was married to VBM for 31 years and didn't tell him what she went through. My H knew what I went through before we even became exclusive. What kind of marriage did they have that she didn't share that? Isn't that something you share with the person you are closest to?

Hope, many people many for many reasons other than being best friends. Who tell each other everything.

 

When I was young, I told my then-fiance everything. And he turned out to be mentally abusive, and he used it against me. "You did ABC, so you're a slut" (even though it was done TO me) - that kind of thing. It was horrible and what little self esteem and self respect I had, was gone by the time I finally left him (with the help of a lot of people pushing me to leave him).

 

By the time I left him, and my H was there wanting to date me, I figured nobody would ever want me, and it was a miracle this guy actually DID want to date me, so I dated him. And married him because, again, who else would ever marry me? And he turned out to be mentally controlling as well because, well, dysfunctional people seek out dysfunctional partners. It's just what we do. So, no, I never told my H of any of the bad stuff in my life. And he's never asked, either, because (I later found out) I was an 'appendage' for HIM, to make HIM feel good, to make HIM look good - he wasn't really all that interested in MY life; I was just there to listen to him, stroke his ego. Now, 35 years later, he wouldn't be able to tell you more than 5 things about my life before him.

 

And the few times I did try telling him how bad I had it, he would turn it around on me to make HIS life worse than mine. Every single time. I was not allowed to have it worse than him. So I just stopped talking to him. A good 20 years ago. And he never even noticed.

 

Now, of course I'm not saying the OP is like my H; just to point out one example of how people can grow up not telling about past abuse.

[aliveagain]

[quote=Hope Shimmers;

 

]VBM said in his most recent post that his wife still says that she was "repulsed" by OM on D-day. How does that explain that last phone call detailed on page 1 of this thread?]I just don't get it. There is SO much here that isn't yet out of the bag, and that makes zero sense.

 

 

]This is something that still troubles me specially when you go back and read the transcript made by the Private Detective a few times. She had no idea anyone was listening to their conversation, this is the true Ann saying these things to O/M after D Day, the man she says repulsed her. As repulsed as she was she still had the need to photograph more of her private parts for other men during a time when she was trying to reconcile with VBM.

 

Sorry, won't allow me to bold.

Edited August 8, 2015 by aliveagain

[Horton]

I hesitate to say this, because everyone seems to want to give her a pardon because of the abuse, but I just have had a huge problem with this because I don't understand how she was married to VBM for 31 years and didn't tell him what she went through. My H knew what I went through before we even became exclusive. What kind of marriage did they have that she didn't share that? Isn't that something you share with the person you are closest to?

 

And I know that about three-fourths of the way through this thread, VBM specifically ASKED her if she had experienced any abuse as a child, and she said No. Wouldn't that have been the perfect opening to discuss it, if she was going to bring it out? Instead NOW she is discussing it, and only because he saw a photo he shouldn't have seen and suddenly she has to come up with a reason for that. And thus all this stuff about being a cam girl and the affairs, and on and on. And who knows what else.

 

VBM said in his most recent post that his wife still says that she was "repulsed" by OM on D-day. How does that explain that last phone call detailed on page 1 of this thread? I just don't get it. There is SO much here that isn't yet out of the bag, and that makes zero sense.

 

My ex-H would NEVER have put up with one shred of this to explain one-tenth of the crap that she has done to this marriage. And I would support him on that 100%. I'm sorry. It's how I feel.

 

If she needs help for her past abuse then she should get it. VBM can't help her with that. He also shouldn't sit around and decide that it justifies any of the mess that she created in this marriage. It doesn't.

 

I think some people here are seeing too much of themselves in VBM's wife and their empathy while commendable is unfortunately causing them to overlook glaring inconsistencies in her claims. She went from pledging her devotion to the OM, implying she'd live in a cardboard box just to be with him to claiming she though he was a repulsive creep all along and everybody just accepts this declaration at face value?

 

I mentioned before that when VBM took a lie detector test he passed it while intentionally lying on the questions, making a mockery of the process and now that she's taken one herself suddenly lie detector tests are dependable after all. It's like anything (no matter how insignificant) that could somehow make her remorse seem more sincere is magnified while anything that doesn't add up about her story is dismissed outright.

 

VBM boasts about how superior he is to the OM on this thread and whether he realizes it or not he is now mentally competing with the OM for his own wife of 31 years. VBM is very protective of her and I think she knows hearing these disparaging statements about the OM soothes his wounded pride, allowing him to justify to himself his innate desire to reconcile with her and this is her way of leading him into being her KISA. Like the proverbial carrot on a stick.

[velvette]

I think some people here are seeing too much of themselves in VBM's wife and their empathy while commendable is unfortunately causing them to overlook glaring inconsistencies in her claims. She went from pledging her devotion to the OM, implying she'd live in a cardboard box just to be with him to claiming she though he was a repulsive creep all along and everybody just accepts this declaration at face value?

 

I mentioned before that when VBM took a lie detector test he passed it while intentionally lying on the questions, making a mockery of the process and now that she's taken one herself suddenly lie detector tests are dependable after all. It's like anything (no matter how insignificant) that could somehow make her remorse seem more sincere is magnified while anything that doesn't add up about her story is dismissed outright.

 

VBM boasts about how superior he is to the OM on this thread and whether he realizes it or not he is now mentally competing with the OM for his own wife of 31 years. VBM is very protective of her and I think she knows hearing these disparaging statements about the OM soothes his wounded pride, allowing him to justify to himself his innate desire to reconcile with her and this is her way of leading him into being her KISA. Like the proverbial carrot on a stick.

 

 

I don't think this is a fair assessment of what other people are saying. People are simply sharing either their experience of being abused or living with someone who was. Its valid experience and VBM will take from it what he will.

 

 

Lots of people think they are in love only to shudder at the prospect or even be repulsed that they may have taken a R further even when its an honest R. A's are no different. And even more, lots of people end up repulsed(we hear it here all the time) because water seeks its own level and they affair down to how they feel about themselves.

 

 

At some level Mrs. VBM is repulsed by herself due to the shame that she carries from her abuse.

 

 

She found someone who tapped into that and told her youre ok/I'm ok and she translated that to love. For probably the first time in her life, she shared with someone all her messy secrets and they told her she was wonderful in spite of them. She felt loved and in love. But, it wasn't real because if you don't love yourself, you cant really love someone else.

 

 

The OM is the least of VBM's problems.

 

 

Further, I haven't heard anyone say she's telling all because she passed the lie detector test. We could debate their reliability all day long. I find it interesting that not once on any question did she apparently show deception; however, skeptic that I am my first thought since she scheduled the test and knew it would be happening is was she self medicating to achieve that result? I don't know. If I recall, VBM himself responds to this with a shrug........it is what it is.

 

 

To VBM I would say, you may never know every secret your W has. I cant say for sure today that I know everything in my H past even while we were married. For me at least, those details are unimportant today.

 

 

What I do know is that if your W is serious about healing herself and her therapy is working, you will see a changed person. It will be clear as day and unmistakable even though you may never be able to explain it here to us.

 

 

I am not here telling VBM he should stay in this M. I am simply telling him that under these circumstances(similar to my own) it is possible to stay and have a healed spouse, to heal yourself and to heal your M and be happy.

[DKT3]

I don't think this is a fair assessment of what other people are saying. People are simply sharing either their experience of being abused or living with someone who was. Its valid experience and VBM will take from it what he will.

 

 

Lots of people think they are in love only to shudder at the prospect or even be repulsed that they may have taken a R further even when its an honest R. A's are no different. And even more, lots of people end up repulsed(we hear it here all the time) because water seeks its own level and they affair down to how they feel about themselves.

 

 

At some level Mrs. VBM is repulsed by herself due to the shame that she carries from her abuse.

 

 

She found someone who tapped into that and told her youre ok/I'm ok and she translated that to love. For probably the first time in her life, she shared with someone all her messy secrets and they told her she was wonderful in spite of them. She felt loved and in love. But, it wasn't real because if you don't love yourself, you cant really love someone else.

 

 

The OM is the least of VBM's problems.

 

 

Further, I haven't heard anyone say she's telling all because she passed the lie detector test. We could debate their reliability all day long. I find it interesting that not once on any question did she apparently show deception; however, skeptic that I am my first thought since she scheduled the test and knew it would be happening is was she self medicating to achieve that result? I don't know. If I recall, VBM himself responds to this with a shrug........it is what it is.

 

 

To VBM I would say, you may never know every secret your W has. I cant say for sure today that I know everything in my H past even while we were married. For me at least, those details are unimportant today.

 

 

What I do know is that if your W is serious about healing herself and her therapy is working, you will see a changed person. It will be clear as day and unmistakable even though you may never be able to explain it here to us.

 

 

I am not here telling VBM he should stay in this M. I am simply telling him that under these circumstances(similar to my own) it is possible to stay and have a healed spouse, to heal yourself and to heal your M and be happy.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying. However, using that logic would suggest there is also no way she could love VBM, right?

[velvette]

BTW lets be real........we all know from VBM's description of her, that Mrs. VBM was never planning to live in a box for OM or anyone else, probably including VBM.

 

 

So, she had her reasons for saying that, but they weren't based in reality.

 

 

More likely keeping OM on the hook at that time, in case she wanted/needed emotional support from him.

 

 

Again, not unusual even in the most mundane of affairs.

 

 

It is imo more normal than not for people not to cut off affairs cold turkey, especially if they aren't being forced to. Agreeing to that call was not the smartest thing VBM could have done as I'm sure he probably realizes in hindsight.

 

 

I have a similar experience in that when I told my H if he wanted to R our M he needed to get rid of the OW(s). I was unfamiliar at that time with the recommended way to initiate NC.

 

 

His response was he would "clear the decks" but let him do it his way. Silly me I agreed and "his way" was to let them down gently while leaving the door open in case we didn't work out. You don't know what you don't know and sometimes you have to learn as you go along.

[velvette]

VBM

 

 

This is for you if you are still reading.

 

 

I would suggest you go back to the beginning.......when the two of you fell in love.

 

 

At that time, I am going to guess that your W showed you the best of who she was. Because that is what people do when they fall in love, and also because I am going to guess that the abuse was pushed far down(easily at that point....it becomes harder as you go along).

 

 

She is still that person underneath all this other mess.

 

 

She fell in love with you, M you and like many people assumed happily ever after unaware that that only works if you have fully developed personal resources to weather all that life throws at you. She didn't have all those resources, because her normal development was interrupted by what happened to her.

 

 

Wait to see who she is once she develops those resources through therapy.

 

 

At the same time, you need to look at why you are in this R. Despite what I said about her showing you her best, there were probably red flags early on that you overlooked. Why? What do you need to learn from this journey that the two of you have taken together?

 

 

Look at how you got to this point with her. Your role independent of her.

 

 

Marriage is many things. But, one thing that people often overlook is that it is a safe haven for healing and a journey towards same. VBM, what do you need to heal or learn? You could be a totally innocent victim in all of this, but my money is on the fact that you are not in this R by accident.

[aliveagain]

Just my opinion but the key issue here is that VBM got shafted, he deserves to be married to the virgin he thought he married, the one she falsely represented to be at the time of their marriage 31 years ago. He doesn't deserve this woman that lied, had three affairs with men and women, stripped in Vegas, was a porn star with her own cam site who continued to exposed her private parts to strangers from their bedroom up until just a few weeks ago, was submissive to her bad boy rapist boyfriend who is married to one of her friends. She is one giant lie. Most of the sh*t she did she did starting about 27 years into their marriage.

 

Her lies continued even after discovery, they continued until July 27th of 2015. That's when the real truth of who she really is came out and the truth about their reconciliation, true or false was learned by VBM. This is no ordinary sh*t sandwich this poor man is being asked to eat. Look at the prize he gets at the end of this after who knows how many years of therapy. I think if we put him in a room with no windows with a couple of bright lights on him, deprive him of sleep for a few weeks and took him of proteins he could probably be convinced to live with this much betrayal and deception. This will still need to be VBM's decision, a decision he will need to make without anymore of his wife's selfish interference. After al the therapy he hopefully will have a wife that doesn't cheat or expose herself, unfortunately she had multiple affairs, stripped had a cam show for years and exposed herself to strangers, that can't be a do over, it's part of her now.

Edited August 9, 2015 by aliveagain

[Confused48]

fter al the therapy he hopefully will have a wife that doesn't cheat or expose herself, unfortunately she had multiple affairs, stripped had a cam show for years and exposed herself to strangers, that can't be a do over, it's part of her now.

 

I think what you are missing here is that it is all relative. For example, I for one would not care about the Vegas strip incident. I think that sounds like fun and I bet VBM enjoyed it too.

 

So what if VBM can accept it all? Who are we to judge that as a bad choice?

[aliveagain]

I think what you are missing here is that it is all relative. For example, I for one would not care about the Vegas strip incident. I think that sounds like fun and I bet VBM enjoyed it too.

 

So what if VBM can accept it all? Who are we to judge that as a bad choice?

 

VBM wasn't in Vegas, his wife had an affair with the female stripper she spent the day dancing on stage with. VBM didn't know until July 27, two weeks ago, that she wasn't there on business or that she had an affair with a woman. If VBM can accept it all there is no issue, they can both ride off into the sunset together and live an amazing life. My point is some things still don't add up. On day of discovery she was repulsed by O/M, just a few days later if you read the transcript from the private detective she was expressing her true feelings for O/M which were much different than what she told VBM.

[autumnnight]

There are several things at play here:

 

1. The very real terrible choices that the WW made

 

2. The repeated lies

 

3. VBM's crushing pain

 

4. His love for his wife even though she is damaged and tainted and all those other adjectives we revel in using

 

5. The newest revelations that anyone capable of being objective know WOULD have something to do with her erratic behavior and issues - not to excuse or justify them, but because libraries are full of books written by more than one actual expert explaining how childhood sexual trauma can play out for some victims

 

6. VBM's pain at these new revelations and the question of whether he can support her in spite of the long years of really horrific and hurtful decisions

 

Those are all very real issues in VBM's life and marriage.

 

Now you have this:

 

1. Black and white thinking that suggests that it is impossible to feel compassion for a victim that has also been a cheater

 

2. Black and white thinking that implies that if she lied about the A she probably lied about the severe years of tauma

 

3. Black and white thinking that actually thinks a cheater and CSA survivor is going to "make sense" in the timing of revelations and feelings about the OM (even though I don't buy this one because on other forums they are completely capable of understanding that WS rarely make sense)

 

5. The idea that no matter what someone does, how honest they become, how hard they work, because they cannot turn back time and be pure after all, they are beyond saving and certainly beyond being married to

 

6. The biggie - I hate my XWS/I wish I'd left my WS so I'm gonna make darn sure VBM does

 

7. I survived abuse so she shouldn't have any problem

 

I freely confess that my own imperfections affect how I see this, and yet I have no idea if VBM should stay. The reason I have no idea what he "should" do is because it is not my life to live. It is not my issue to vicariously solve through him. And he is not someone I can use to forward my agenda/philosophy.

 

He is a hurting BS with not just the regular BS pain, but a whole other crop of issues to deal with too. My hope is that HIS life is the best life for HIM...because it isn't mine.

 

Oh, and no one here can read minds...so no one actually knows how Ann feels about VBM.

Edited August 9, 2015 by autumnnight

[velvette]

I don't disagree with what you're saying. However, using that logic would suggest there is also no way she could love VBM, right?

 

 

No, not necessarily.

 

 

Although, her ability to love anyone well will have been hampered by the secrets she harbored.

 

 

When people make the choice not to tell, it gets buried deep. Often, they also overcompensate regarding all their strong points.

 

 

The secret is often pushed down so far that although they know it happened they never think about it or remember it.....sometimes for years.

 

 

They are not consciously acting out of shame.....it leaks out, but not in ways they recognize as connected to the abuse or that anyone else would recognize.

 

 

But, this cover up doesn't work forever for most people. The pain starts leaking more and more often. Then it spurts, gushes, etc. By the time she was with OM she had reopened that Pandoras box and was deep in her own shame trying to make it ok.

 

 

That's not the same place she was at when she fell in love with VBM. The pain was barely recognized by her at that time on any conscious level is my guess.

[Horton]

BTW lets be real........we all know from VBM's description of her, that Mrs. VBM was never planning to live in a box for OM or anyone else, probably including VBM.

 

So, she had her reasons for saying that, but they weren't based in reality.

 

More likely keeping OM on the hook at that time, in case she wanted/needed emotional support from him.

 

Isn't this what she's been doing to VBM, keeping him on the hook for whatever support she believes he can provide?

 

Just my opinion but the key issue here is that VBM got shafted, he deserves to be married to the virgin he thought he married, the one she falsely represented to be at the time of their marriage 31 years ago. He doesn't deserve this woman that lied, had three affairs with men and women, stripped in Vegas, was a porn star with her own cam site who continued to exposed her private parts to strangers from their bedroom up until just a few weeks ago, was submissive to her bad boy rapist boyfriend who is married to one of her friends. She is one giant lie. Most of the sh*t she did she did starting about 27 years into their marriage.

 

Her lies continued even after discovery, they continued until July 27th of 2015. That's when the real truth of who she really is came out and the truth about their reconciliation, true or false was learned by VBM. This is no ordinary sh*t sandwich this poor man is being asked to eat. Look at the prize he gets at the end of this after who knows how many years of therapy. I think if we put him in a room with no windows with a couple of bright lights on him, deprive him of sleep for a few weeks and took him of proteins he could probably be convinced to live with this much betrayal and deception. This will still need to be VBM's decision, a decision he will need to make without anymore of his wife's selfish interference. After al the therapy he hopefully will have a wife that doesn't cheat or expose herself, unfortunately she had multiple affairs, stripped had a cam show for years and exposed herself to strangers, that can't be a do over, it's part of her now.

 

The parts of your post I put in bold are exactly what people are missing IMO. If VBM wants to stay with her that's fine, but there is no men in black mind eraser he can use to make this all go away. She did these things behind his back and she likely would have continued doing them and would have taken them to her grave if he hadn't gotten suspicious and found her secret text messages. Her sudden revelation of childhood abuse (which I believe) is actually a separate issue from her repeated betrayals, which even VBM has stated as such. People who suddenly decided she's worthy of a second(third?) chance only after she has claimed she was abused are not being entirely honest with themselves about their motivations IMO.

 

There are several things at play here:

 

1. The very real terrible choices that the WW made

 

2. The repeated lies

 

3. VBM's crushing pain

 

4. His love for his wife even though she is damaged and tainted and all those other adjectives we revel in using

 

5. The newest revelations that anyone capable of being objective know WOULD have something to do with her erratic behavior and issues - not to excuse or justify them, but because libraries are full of books written by more than one actual expert explaining how childhood sexual trauma can play out for some victims

 

6. VBM's pain at these new revelations and the question of whether he can support her in spite of the long years of really horrific and hurtful decisions

 

Those are all very real issues in VBM's life and marriage.

 

Now you have this:

 

1. Black and white thinking that suggests that it is impossible to feel compassion for a victim that has also been a cheater

 

2. Black and white thinking that implies that if she lied about the A she probably lied about the severe years of tauma

 

3. Black and white thinking that actually thinks a cheater and CSA survivor is going to "make sense" in the timing of revelations and feelings about the OM (even though I don't buy this one because on other forums they are completely capable of understanding that WS rarely make sense)

 

5. The idea that no matter what someone does, how honest they become, how hard they work, because they cannot turn back time and be pure after all, they are beyond saving and certainly beyond being married to

6. The biggie - I hate my XWS/I wish I'd left my WS so I'm gonna make darn sure VBM does

 

7. I survived abuse so she shouldn't have any problem

 

I freely confess that my own imperfections affect how I see this, and yet I have no idea if VBM should stay. The reason I have no idea what he "should" do is because it is not my life to live. It is not my issue to vicariously solve through him. And he is not someone I can use to forward my agenda/philosophy.

 

He is a hurting BS with not just the regular BS pain, but a whole other crop of issues to deal with too. My hope is that HIS life is the best life for HIM...because it isn't mine.

 

Oh, and no one here can read minds...so no one actually knows how Ann feels about VBM.

 

Your first list.

 

5. That's just it, everything that happens to us has an effect on our behavior. Every single thing. The absentee parent that ignored us, the bully that tormented us in school, the older sibling that ran with the wrong crowd etc. But we don't drag all of these issues into the mix with every other case of adultery on here. Why is that? Only when something hits too close to home do we deem it a contributing factor in someones behavior. We all tend to feel more empathy to somebody we can relate to. I'm just as guilty of this as anybody, but I can still recognize it when it's happening and I don't think it's wrong of me to point it out.

 

Your second list.

 

1. I do feel compassion for her in regards to her childhood trauma, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing through her lies. Anybody whose ever had to deal with an addict in their life knows that you can have compassion for somebody and yet still know that they're full of it. It's a sad fact, but many people who've had a rough childhood or some other equally terrible plight often use it as a distraction from their wrongdoings. She can be both a genuine victim of abuse and be using that fact as a means to manipulate others. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

2. I don't think she's lying about her abuse. However she didn't just lie about her affairs. She lied about her cam shows, her feelings for her OM, her previous EA, her trips to Vegas to be an amateur stripper and of course her lesbian lover. That's a pretty consistent liar if you ask me. Not somebody that I would ever place any blind faith in. I can see forgiving somebody who stole my car but I'm not leaving my keys around that person ever again. If that makes me a pharisee then I guess I'm a pharisee.

 

5. None of us are pure, but if you choose to make a lifestyle out of being a liar you can't turn around and act shocked that people are hesitant to take you at your word. You only get one reputation, don't tarnish it.

 

7. I don't think that's what Hope was implying. I'm sure Hope has problems like anybody else whose been abused but I believe she meant that her own problems don't justify treating another (innocent) person in an unkind manner. It sounds like she's trying to break the cycle of abuse instead of perpetuating it. I have a lot of respect for that.

 

As far as reading minds goes I don't think he'll need that. The transcript to her phone call with the OM is as good as any telepathy. If somebody you loved and had sacrificed so much for was secretly recorded telling another how deeply they love them and they painted you as a controlling ogre while boasting about how oblivious you are to their true feelings/intentions, do you honestly believe that you'd be able to just write that off as 'affair fog'? I just don't see how anybody could do that without burying their head in the sand.

[autumnnight]

You make some valid points.

 

One thing I have always respected about VBM is his insistence on making his own decisions about his life. I really think that will serve him well. I have seen all sorts of things recommended on forums: abandoning children when the DNA doesn't match, moving across the country, quitting the breadwinning, family-supporting job at a moment's notice, cutting off entire extended families....none of us who recommend such things are the ones who have to deal with the fallout. We don't have to try to sell a house, provide for a family with no income, deal with the 7 year old daughter who wants to know why the only daddy she has ever known doesn't want her anymore, etc.

 

VBM is the kind of man who is going to do what he feels is best for him even if half the world thinks he is crazy. And that is a very very good thing.

[understand50]

You make some valid points.

 

One thing I have always respected about VBM is his insistence on making his own decisions about his life. I really think that will serve him well. I have seen all sorts of things recommended on forums: abandoning children when the DNA doesn't match, moving across the country, quitting the breadwinning, family-supporting job at a moment's notice, cutting off entire extended families....none of us who recommend such things are the ones who have to deal with the fallout. We don't have to try to sell a house, provide for a family with no income, deal with the 7 year old daughter who wants to know why the only daddy she has ever known doesn't want her anymore, etc.

 

VBM is the kind of man who is going to do what he feels is best for him even if half the world thinks he is crazy. And that is a very very good thing.

 

All,

 

To add to what autumnnight states.

 

This is VBM's life, if he decides to forgive and reconcile with his wife, it is his decision. This endless arguments, on what Ann should have done on D-day is not helpful. What should be acknowledge, is that she confessed that affair, went NC, and has done "Everything to show remorse and work on herself and the marriage" per VBM. The Sexual abuse, and the compulsion to expose herself, came after working in IC, that is now leading to psychological treatment. Nothing came out that AFTER her D-day, that she continued that affair, or cheating in general.

 

So, we have some here, that advocate divorce, because the first sex was unpardonable. We have others that would say just a EA is enough to under all circumstances divorce. Hell, if your wife even looks, thinks, or interacts with a man - Divorce.

 

As I see it, and VBM may take me to task and say that I am wrong, He is going to stay and make sure of Ann's well being. He is trying to reconcile. We should respect this decision, and not say, "You you should dump her" when ever he asks for help. He is struggling with the memories of what she did to him. He is triggering. There are things one can do, and time will help the most to deal with this. It did for me, it has for others. If one can make it, and hold out, things will get better. That is for sure.

 

Or he can divorce, and deal with that fallout.

 

1) He and Ann will have to explain all to their children.

 

2) He will have to face their extended family, they will take sides.

 

3) They will both take a financial hit. Have to break up assets, family property.

 

4) He will have to deal with the pain of abandoning the woman he loves, in her supreme hour of need. If you doubt his love, look at his pain with what he has written here. This talk about how you can be friends, still support her, is BULL SH@T. She may decide that she cannot deal with him, and move on and have no contact with him. Ending the marriage, will cause both pain. Wanting to avoid that pain, is not a unnatural and unreasonable choice.

 

5) He will not be with the woman he loves and will now have to try and find someone who can be faithful to him. At our age it is just not a easy thing. In your 20's, or earlier, you both have less "life crap" to deal with. It grows with age, and can and does get in the way.

 

Here is a another scenario that no one talks or thinks about.

 

All the advice is centered on the BS, their needs, their ego, so fourth and so on. This is not a bad thing as they are the party that has been wronged, but consider this. The WS has a life and self worth as well. No wrongs gives another the right to make the life of a WS pure hell in attempt to address the balance. Note to VBM, in no way do I believe that this is you. You have shown great compassion and love to Ann trough out this. The WS could decide after a year or so, that no amount of remorse, living a open life is worth the anger and pain directed at them, and they can decide to divorce, even if the BS would not like this to happen. In other words, they gave it their best shot, and what ever they do to try and make it right will never be enough, so they end it. I would say rightly so, no one can live with anger and hate 24/7, nor should they. As some have stated, life is just too short.

 

Reconciliation is a two street, it is a gift from the BS to the WS, but the BS must accept the actions and remorse offered, and work on regaining the trust in a marriage. Both sides must meet each other half way. If they cannot, no marriage can survive on "love" alone.

 

VBM, I have posted on what I do, after all these years, when I "trigger". I decided, long ago, not to let it mess up my marriage to the woman I love. I remind myself, that is just a memory, and I CONTROL me, not past events. Does not mean I would tolerate my wife cheating on me in the present, but that the past we have agree to move on from, is in the past. I keep my word and I keep my forgiveness for her past actions. I hope this of some help, but it is up to you to find what works for you.

 

I wish you luck, and peace of mind and to the both of you, a good outcome.

Edited August 9, 2015 by understand50

[66Charger]

All,

 

To add to what autumnnight states.

 

This is VBM's life, if he decides to forgive and reconcile with his wife, it is his decision. This endless arguments, on what Ann should have done on D-day is not helpful. What should be acknowledge, is that she confessed that affair, went NC, and has done "Everything to show remorse and work on herself and the marriage" per VBM. The Sexual abuse, and the compulsion to expose herself, came after working in IC, that is now leading to psychological treatment. Nothing came out that AFTER her D-day, that she continued that affair, or cheating in general.

 

thThe lesbian affair came out after DDay. (CHEATING IN GENERAL)

VBM opened up his life to BOTH SIDES of the story. It is also presumptuous to state that any advice is unhelpful and ignorant to say that someone doesnt know what they are talking about. Example. Had VBM followed any of the advice given to him months ago, would he be in this mess right now?

 

So, we have some here, that advocate divorce, because the first sex was unpardonable. We have others that would say just a EA is enough to under all circumstances divorce. Hell, if your wife even looks, thinks, or interacts with a man - Divorce.

As I see it, and VBM may take me to task and say that I am wrong, He is going to stay and make sure of Ann's well being. He is trying to reconcile. We should respect this decision, and not say, "You you should dump her" when ever he asks for help. He is struggling with the memories of what she did to him. He is triggering. There are things one can do, and time will help the most to deal with this. It did for me, it has for others. If one can make it, and hold out, things will get better. That is for sure.

 

it doesnt appear that way to me. He was trying to reconcile and his tone was different, but if I didnt read this thread and read his post on other threads, I would say this Man is headed for divorce. And if that is true or undetermined, shouldnt you respect his decision and NOT give reasons to reconcile? Doesnt it go both ways?

 

Or he can divorce, and deal with that fallout. (No difference here than those advocating divorce

 

1) He and Ann will have to explain all to their children.

He does not have to give details

 

2) He will have to face their extended family, they will take sides.

Again, No one else needs to know the details. Growing apart is all they need to know. His/Her choice

 

3) They will both take a financial hit. Have to break up assets, family property.

So what. The children are grown. VBM isnt poor.

 

4) He will have to deal with the pain of abandoning the woman he loves, in her supreme hour of need. If you doubt his love, look at his pain with what he has written here. This talk about how you can be friends, still support her, is BULL SH@T. She may decide that she cannot deal with him, and move on and have no contact with him. Ending the marriage, will cause both pain. Wanting to avoid that pain, is not a unnatural and unreasonable choice.

 

Avoiding pain? The Man is already in pain. There is no avoiding here. So he should stay to avoid HER PAIN? Abandoning her in her hour of need? This is about HIS hour of need. If she decides that she cant handle his pain and decides to seperate, that would show just how deeply a ME person she is. What is Bullsh@t for you may be the only way he survives

 

 

5) He will not be with the woman he loves and will now have to try and find someone who can be faithful to him. At our age it is just not a easy thing. In your 20's, or earlier, you both have less "life crap" to deal with. It grows with age, and can and does get in the way.

 

He is NOT with the woman he loves. He is now learning who the woman he is married to is. That can be 2 different people. Staying together because of fear that you are to old is ridiculous

These are all FEAR based reasons to stay

 

Here is a another scenario that no one talks or thinks about.

 

All the advice is centered on the BS, their needs, their ego, so fourth and so on. This is not a bad thing as they are the party that has been wronged, but consider this. The WS has a life and self worth as well. No wrongs gives another the right to make the life of a WS pure hell in attempt to address the balance. Note to VBM, in no way do I believe that this is you. You have shown great compassion and love to Ann trough out this. The WS could decide after a year or so, that no amount of remorse, living a open life is worth the anger and pain directed at them, and they can decide to divorce, even if the BS would not like this to happen. In other words, they gave it their best shot, and what ever they do to try and make it right will never be enough, so they end it. I would say rightly so, no one can live with anger and hate 24/7, nor should they. As some have stated, life is just too short.

 

True. If you feel you will have YEARS of anger and pain, what should you do? Suck it up? Keep it to yourself because you FEAR the WS might leave?I

 

Reconciliation is a two street, it is a gift from the BS to the WS, but the BS must accept the actions and remorse offered, and work on regaining the trust in a marriage. Both sides must meet each other half way. If they cannot, no marriage can survive on "love" alone.

 

Unless you missed it VBM has been attempting to reconcile for 8 months. He has been trying to regain the trust. Do you think the recent revelations are a thank you to that gift?. The first thing that a WS must do in order to regain trust is to be trustworthy.

Lets be honest, IF VBM HAD NOT SEEN THE PHOTO, what would she have done with it? Do you know? Does VBM? Unless you missed it, this is his SECOND Dday

 

Why does this thread exist? So that we can give Pillows and tissues? Didnt recall him asking anyone to think for him. Kind of recall him asking advice. FROM BOTH SIDES

 

I am not suggesting what he should do. I can have compassion for the CSA and everything tied to it, i also believe the 31 years should be a factor, but sometimes, you know. Deep inside, when you have had enough.

 

Fellini once slammed me months ago for saying that VBM was eating a **** sandwhich.

 

Little did I know that the sandwhich would grow to a buffet.

Edited August 9, 2015 by 66Charger

[Morbius]

Fellini once slammed me months ago for saying that VBM was eating a **** sandwhich.

 

Little did I know that the sandwhich would grow to a buffet

 

I agree with your post, but this ^^^^^ is spot on. It's like the kid with his finger in the dike, you can stop only so many cracks but as you stare at the ever growing fingers, you wonder not if, but when the next fissure will form, and your life gets washed away by the deluge of lies, half and trickle truths.

 

I hope that VBM does not find himself washed away, by all this overwhelming information. For his well-being, he needs to put him first. A daunting but necessary task to survive.

 

Sadly 66Charger the buffet before him is barely palatable.

[66Charger]

Understand50, we have agreed and are currently assisting another battle. I want to be clear that I am not ignorant enough to suggest you dont know what you are talking about. I just disagree with THAT post.

[velvette]

Isn't this what she's been doing to VBM, keeping him on the hook for whatever support she believes he can provide?

 

.

 

 

 

Partially, but so what? I don't think its the only reason she stays with VBM. And, it is after all part of the original contract they made and that VBM was ok with. Provide for her and their children while she stays home and raises them. No different than millions of other married people.

 

 

I cant fault her for wanting to preserve that contract even though she has breached other parts of it. Doesn't mean its the only reason she's there.

 

 

Part of the challenge she has going forward is to grow up enough to know she can stand on her own two feet and doesn't stay in any R because she needs to, or its easier or any other reason than she loves her partner and wants to be there.

[velvette]

[quoteunders

 

 

 

 

 

I am not suggesting what he should do. I can have compassion for the CSA and everything tied to it, i also believe the 31 years should be a factor, but sometimes, you know. Deep inside, when you have had enough.

 

.

 

 

And, here is the crux of it.

 

 

VBM will know when he has had enough either temporarily or permanently.

 

 

VBM, if you are unsure, leave open the option to take a break from your M. Even if its just to hear yourself think without input from your W.