Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[understand50]

Understand50, we have agreed and are currently assisting another battle. I want to be clear that I am not ignorant enough to suggest you dont know what you are talking about. I just disagree with THAT post.

 

No worries

[bigman1]

this is the last time I will say this, and I'm sorry to bring it back up, but I gotta say it and then I will leave this topic alone. This has been a tale that started off with some difficult concepts. Then it spins off to this woman being a pseudo internet porn cam performer who meets her beau online in town despite both of them not trying to be found by anyone local, then she is the victim of CSA, and the guy she meets happens to feed right into the particular fetish that she has that she has managed to keep from her husband for 31 years. VBM get's this latest notice after finding a photo of her on her phone that she "forgot" to erase. Wasn't this guy a rapist too?

 

That any woman could go 31 years without EVER hinting that she had a sub fetish or rape fantasy, or degradation issues is UNBELIEVABLE. In the heat of the moment, she never once said, "call me a ______!" "Hold me down and ____" .... Nothing?! Not even some "hey, next time we have sex, can we try____"? Am I alone on this, don't couples talk about sex with each other? The old, "hey, I've always wanted to _____". or after a few drinks, you say some stuff that gets your SO to look at you funny. (Yeah, I've been there). I mean 31 years is a long time.

 

I'm not saying that its not possible for her to keep the fact of abuse a secret, albeit improbable, but keeping the affect of abuse a secret for 31 years... I can't see that. No flash backs? No, don't do that I don't like it. No, triggers that caused him to probe a bit in to what was the matter?

 

I don't think being abused disqualifies anyone from anything. I am just questioning everything in this story. The pieces don't fit. They are random. They go beyond coincidence. It is just such a remarkable tale as a whole. Individual pieces make sense alone. But all together as part of the same narrative? I don't know.

 

So, in the end, this woman was and is a chameleon. A masterful, beautiful, deceitful chameleon. If he wants to trust her, consider trusting her, or investing any more time in this "relationship", then he is in for a lifetime of second guessing. Who was she really? Who is she really? Forgiveness can still happen without answers to these questions, but...

 

The polygraph makes no sense. He fooled it, but relies on it now? She was sociopathic in her ability to hide, conceal, mislead, etc., but she is felled by the polygraph that VBM manages to fool?

 

Before anyone gets riled up, I'm not calling VBM a troll, that would be bad. I'm saying that the pieces don't fit, so I'm not sure how he can actually move forward with anything with this woman. Its his choice, his life, his everything. But I gotta say, I don'[t know why anyone would risk getting back on this ride given all that has gone wrong.

Edited August 10, 2015 by bigman1

[velvette]

this is the last time I will say this, and I'm sorry to bring it back up, but I gotta say it and then I will leave this topic alone. This has been a tale that started off with some difficult concepts. Then it spins off to this woman being a pseudo internet porn cam performer who meets her beau online in town despite both of them not trying to be found by anyone local, then she is the victim of CSA, and the guy she meets happens to feed right into the particular fetish that she has that she has managed to keep from her husband for 31 years. VBM get's this latest notice after finding a photo of her on her phone that she "forgot" to erase. Wasn't this guy a rapist too?

 

That any woman could go 31 years without EVER hinting that she had a sub fetish or rape fantasy, or degradation issues is UNBELIEVABLE. In the heat of the moment, she never once said, "call me a ______!" "Hold me down and ____" .... Nothing?! Not even some "hey, next time we have sex, can we try____"? Am I alone on this, don't couples talk about sex with each other? The old, "hey, I've always wanted to _____". or after a few drinks, you say some stuff that gets your SO to look at you funny. (Yeah, I've been there). I mean 31 years is a long time.

 

I'm not saying that its not possible for her to keep the fact of abuse a secret, albeit improbable, but keeping the affect of abuse a secret for 31 years... I can't see that. No flash backs? No, don't do that I don't like it. No, triggers that caused him to probe a bit in to what was the matter?

 

I don't think being abused disqualifies anyone from anything. I am just questioning everything in this story. The pieces don't fit. They are random. They go beyond coincidence. It is just such a remarkable tale as a whole. Individual pieces make sense alone. But all together as part of the same narrative? I don't know.

 

So, in the end, this woman was and is a chameleon. A masterful, beautiful, deceitful chameleon. If he wants to trust her, consider trusting her, or investing any more time in this "relationship", then he is in for a lifetime of second guessing. Who was she really? Who is she really? Forgiveness can still happen without answers to these questions, but...

 

The polygraph makes no sense. He fooled it, but relies on it now? She was sociopathic in her ability to hide, conceal, mislead, etc., but she is felled by the polygraph that VBM manages to fool?

 

Before anyone gets riled up, I'm not calling VBM a troll, that would be bad. I'm saying that the pieces don't fit, so I'm not sure how he can actually move forward with anything with this woman. Its his choice, his life, his everything. But I gotta say, I don'[t know why anyone would risk getting back on this ride given all that has gone wrong.

 

 

Oh for gods sake bigman lol. The whole story is entirely plausible imo.

 

 

From both my own personal experience and that of many others I know. In fact, right now you could go into any BDSM forum that has a chat or discussion section and find tons of women in the 40/50/60 year age range that are just like Mrs. VBM plus or minus the child abuse story.

 

 

You are not putting this in historical context. If she is 50 something which I am not exactly sure, she came of age in the late 70's/early 80's. The theme song of that era for women was "I am woman hear me roar".

 

 

It was a time of incredibly mixed messages for women. Women in elite layers of society were heavily involved in the womens movement. Women in middle America were all of a sudden being told that the dream they grew up with of marrying prince charming and having/raising his children was obsolete. They should instead be independent, blah blah.

 

 

It was not a time when it was politically correct to announce that you would rather be submissive to your H than making six figures.

 

 

I have no doubt she probably signaled some of her desires to VBM. If he wants, he can probably verify that she did and that he missed them.

 

 

Its not uncommon for example, for submissive women to attempt to telegraph their desires by suggesting they dominate their H sexually. It rationally doesn't make sense, but I have heard that story many times. There hope is that he will reciprocate and find that more satisfying.

 

 

Lots of women have trouble even today(but moreso in decades past) saying exactly what they want sexually.

 

 

You are just wrong, wrong, wrong when it comes to this. So wrong that if we were in the same room you would here me laughing out loud.

 

 

By the way being submissive is not a fetish. And also, exhibitionism, humiliation, fantasies of degradation, rape, etc are common place manifestations of submissive sexual orientation. Whether or not these are normal for Mrs. VBM or the result of what happened to her is for her to say.

[aliveagain]

Anyone that has ever been to Vegas knows that the strip joints there are just about as low as strip joints can get in America second maybe to the joints in Mexico. It's like they have to be extra sleazy to compensate for what the classy joints in the big hotels are putting out. What normal married woman with children, 27 years into her marriage desires to be naked with a fulltime lesbian stripper on a stage in front of drunks throwing money at them in a sleazy Vegas strip joint? Please read that sentence again because it's hard to write those words in one sentence. Somethings are not adding up.

[velvette]

Anyone that has ever been to Vegas knows that the strip joints there are just about as low as strip joints can get in America second maybe to the joints in Mexico. It's like they have to be extra sleazy to compensate for what the classy joints in the big hotels are putting out. What normal married woman with children, 27 years into her marriage desires to be naked with a fulltime lesbian stripper on a stage in front of drunks throwing money at them in a sleazy Vegas strip joint? Please read that sentence again because it's hard to write those words in one sentence. Somethings are not adding up.

 

 

You are forgetting that the first time she went on stage and took her top off VBM was with her, encouraged or at least went along with it and was apparently ok with it.

 

 

BTW I've been in strip clubs in vegas and they are not all as sleazy as you describe.

Edited August 10, 2015 by velvette

[66Charger]

You are forgetting that the first time she went on stage and took her top off VBM was with her, encouraged or at least went along with it and was apparently ok with .

 

I have a deep suspicion that this was her trigger. I may be incorrect, but did not everything start from here?

Edited August 10, 2015 by 66Charger

[beach]

Partially, but so what? I don't think its the only reason she stays with VBM. And, it is after all part of the original contract they made and that VBM was ok with. Provide for her and their children while she stays home and raises them. No different than millions of other married people.

 

 

I cant fault her for wanting to preserve that contract even though she has breached other parts of it. Doesn't mean its the only reason she's there.

 

 

Part of the challenge she has going forward is to grow up enough to know she can stand on her own two feet and doesn't stay in any R because she needs to, or its easier or any other reason than she loves her partner and wants to be there.

 

Please don't speak for others.

 

Your recent responses seem to be speaking for VBM's perspective as well as his wife.

[bigman1]

Velvette, I hear you laughing. Like I said, each part of the story is plausible standing alone, except for how they met. But putting it all in one story is beyond the pale. When I used "fetish" to describe being a sub, it was shorthand.

 

I completely understand the historical context. I am in the same age range. If she is 52 or less, then she was a kid in the 70's so " I am woman, hear me roar" was a bit ahead of her time. She was most likely a Zoom kid. Graduated HS between 81-83. Not the most sexually repressed generation.

 

And now, why I say that this story is too much. A CSA victim has an affair with a sexual assault perp. Too much. Still, see below for my opus.

 

VBM has stated the following in his earlier threads : I'll put those in italics:

 

A. My WW is very trusting and is not hardened from years of dating. She honestly did not understand that men could be like he was because all she has known is the safety of our marriage.

 

B

She honestly felt like this man loved her, but again that was a LIE he used to keep her on the hook for sex. She tried to break it off at one point and that is when he started telling her he loved her and could not live without her.

 

C Too trusting, too naive and he manipulated her.

 

D I have the proof in the texts, it's not a question of her telling the truth about it. He aggressively went after a naive married women and lied to her about his feelings to get sex. That is a predator. (editorial: How is this sentence even possible in light of the most recent developments? for that matter, how are the most recent developments true in light of this statement)

E I knew she was a victim on DDay from all the texts and emails, and I have all of them. Editorial: How does this make any sense in light of the newest CSA abuse claims, etc. This does not add up at all. I mean not one single bit. Remember he also wrote this: At first it was just exchanging naked pictures but it escalated and snowballed and she failed to see how making it not anonymous crossed a huge line.

If they are exchanging pics, and he had all of them, how does he not have these?

 

FShe saw the real OM when he got angry and took issue with her about some of the things she wanted to say in the final no contact call we made together. It was so viscous he hung up and called back twice and she was livid that he treated her as he did on that call. He burned down the bridge and town with his actions on that phone call. Editorial: I thought later on he said that she wanted to end it. How does this make any sense?

 

GAfter that I did not have to demonize him at all but the two page criminal history that I gave her that included a sexual assault told her all she needed to know about the type of man he really is.

 

HThe affair lasted 77 days first contact to DDay. She had no end game, she got caught up in the attention and was infatuated. I have all the texts and emails and there was never any plans for the future of any kind.

 

IThe first link in the chain was him contacting her becuase he wanted to F&*k her. She just wanted the attention and she was only in it for the attention and compliments AT FIRST.

 

Later, after she comes up with the whole cam story:

 

JShe said she was freaked out when she was first contacted by the OM because she thought she was blocking everyone by location. He told her that the company he worked for provided his internet service and he connected to the corporate office in some other state via VPN. His said it was secure for the company that way and his IP always appeared to be from that other state and that is why he was able to see her on MFC.

 

 

K9. The OM was a cam site user (and the husband of her friend) and was a regular on her channel on the cam site for several months before he knew who she was. (Editorial: Wasn't she the innocent one, see A and C, above) The site allows women to block certain locations/regions but he used some type of connection to the internet that made it appear he was elsewhere in the country that she had unblocked. She stressed several times that she had no interest in meeting or getting to know any of these men. The OM recognized her picture on Facebook the day of her birthday. He contacted her and let her know he knew her "secret". (Editorial interjection: Earlier he said he had all emails, so explain that? See, D,E, and H, above " She said she felt like she knew him but there was no attraction physical or otherwise. He suggested she do a private show in person and it snowballed very quickly into phone sex and exchanging pictures. She did not realize at the time that it was any worse than doing it anonymously. She said she never wanted a relationship but that she just needed that "fix" of exposing herself. (but see B above and infaturation. She willingly went to the house that first day just to strip in person and let him watch. Once she was there he wanted to spank her and she reluctantly gave in to satisfy her need to feel degraded and exposed. She wanted to be treated like garbage because that is what she feels like she is because of this problen. The fantasy for him was for her to tell him she loved him (See B, above- he was telling her he loved her) and D- he has all the text to prove it, basically the "girlfriend" experience with some spanking thrown in. He told her he had been abused as a child also. The experience turned her on so much that they ended up having sex but that was not the plan at least for my wife when she agreed to meet. I'm certain the OM had other ideas from the start.

 

I got tired of all of the clicking. Let me sum it up. It does not add up.

 

If you re-read his thread on what to do if the OM is a predator and then compare it, things just do not add up at all. You may be laughing, but so is someone else.

[66Charger]

What exactly is the relevance of focusing on how the OM and Ann met? The cam shows are no longer hidden. The bisexual affair is known. He knows the length and extent of the affair with the OM. He fdekuc her. We got it.

 

You dont believe the CSA. We got it.

You dont believe the poly. We got it

You want to believe that they met in some other devious way, or she is "not a victim to his manipulation" We got it.

At this point, I dont think it is about what VBM doesnt know, its about what he DOES know.

 

Think about it. Thats a lot. I mean, cmon now.

 

Using VBM quotes that dont prove your point is arguing for the sake of it and seems like a bunch of noise. The Stih is already deep enough.

[eric1]

The cam show meeting is just not true. I run an IT company services over 6000 users and have 20 guys working for me. I have been doing this for 30 years. I brought up this story with a few of the guys and they agree.

 

In our collective professional opinion we have never heard of someone using a VPN for the purposes that he used it for. Furthermore, we're dealing with people who in general would have something to lose should they get caught. This guy had already been in trouble and had exhibited patterns opposite this dude.

 

I have been before judges to give my professional opinion before. It occurs frequently throughout forensic recovery processes. This is a situation I feel comfortable with testifying for.

 

Is it theoretically possible he did? Yes. But Big Foot is also theoretically possible but most people dismiss it because of the astronomical odds against it. This falls into the same category.

[lgspot]

The cam show meeting is just not true. I run an IT company services over 6000 users and have 20 guys working for me. I have been doing this for 30 years. I brought up this story with a few of the guys and they agree.

 

In our collective with the opinion we have never heard of someone using a VPN for the purposes that he used it for. Furthermore, we're dealing with people who in general would have something to lose should they get caught. This guy had already been in trouble and had exhibited patterns opposite this dude.

 

I have been before judges to give my professional opinion before. It occurs frequently throughout forensic recovery processes. This is a situation I feel comfortable with testifying for.

 

Is it theoretically possible he did? Yes. But Big Foot is also theoretically possible but most people dismiss it because of the astronomical odds against it. This falls into the same category.

Maybe yes. Maybe no.

I wasn't familiar with that site so I checked into it.

First rattle out of the box, two girls were talking together how they had developed a friendship on cam by being in the same city and recognizing each other. it a large city in the U.S. Neither knew the other was a cam girl other than girls curiosity of others and seeing their cam.

In many ways it still is a small world.

Sometimes things just happen.

I doubt Big Foot watches cam sites, but I would wager criminal OM spent a great deal of time on them. Wouldn't be out of realm for him to have recognized additional people or in tight contact with others on the site. Might be worth a check. Would be a sales record of the chips I would think. Could be a trail there.

IMO---/The how's of it happening aren't as important as two healthy, loving people emerging from this tragedy.

[understand50]

The cam show meeting is just not true. I run an IT company services over 6000 users and have 20 guys working for me. I have been doing this for 30 years. I brought up this story with a few of the guys and they agree.

 

In our collective professional opinion we have never heard of someone using a VPN for the purposes that he used it for. Furthermore, we're dealing with people who in general would have something to lose should they get caught. This guy had already been in trouble and had exhibited patterns opposite this dude.

 

I have been before judges to give my professional opinion before. It occurs frequently throughout forensic recovery processes. This is a situation I feel comfortable with testifying for.

 

Is it theoretically possible he did? Yes. But Big Foot is also theoretically possible but most people dismiss it because of the astronomical odds against it. This falls into the same category.

 

eric1,

 

What you are forgetting is the the OM, may not understand, and used the term VPN to describe something else. Just as many people use the term Modem, a analog device, to describe a CSU/DSU, a digital device. Or the classic, I have a digital radio, IE Cell phone. No, you have a analog FM 2 way radio, with digital encoding on the FM carrier wave. All radios are analog, when the signal leaves the antenna.

 

As for using a VPN to appear some where else, it can be used for that. If I use the VPN in the UK for my company, I appear on the public internet from the UK. It would defeat web cam service. Now that is not why I am using it, I just am after any connection that will work, usually use a US VPN, but there are times I have used the UK, because the US VPN are not working or down.

 

There is the whole subject of Tor browsers, as well. Point is, we have information filtered trough a non IT person VBM, from another non IT person Ann, from the original, properly non IT person OM. What he was really doing? Bet he went to some service on the internet and used it not understanding what he was really doing. Unless you can audit the OM, you are really not going to know.

 

I goggled "How to make my computer seem like it is somewhere else?"

 

and got the following: "You need a proxy in the UK. You need to set up your browser or connection to rout its traffic through the IP the proxy gives you. I'd suggest taking a look at this list: Proxy List | Sorted by anonymity type #1. If you're using Firefox, the FoxyProxy add-on can do the job. "

 

Here is another site How To Watch Streaming Video Anywhere in the World

 

It gives a "The VPN Method" It gives 2 sites "StrongVPN" or "HideMyAss Pro".

 

Both would give a "false" IP address.

 

Point is, if you are a POS, and wanted to defeat the region block on the web cam it is easily done. Now the odds of meeting someone you know, or can id? Well, if you are of the mind set, you take the bet. What is to lose?

[velvette]

eric1,

 

What you are forgetting is the the OM, may not understand, and used the term VPN to describe something else. Just as many people use the term Modem, a analog device, to describe a CSU/DSU, a digital device. Or the classic, I have a digital radio, IE Cell phone. No, you have a analog FM 2 way radio, with digital encoding on the FM carrier wave. All radios are analog, when the signal leaves the antenna.

 

As for using a VPN to appear some where else, it can be used for that. If I use the VPN in the UK for my company, I appear on the public internet from the UK. It would defeat web cam service. Now that is not why I am using it, I just am after any connection that will work, usually use a US VPN, but there are times I have used the UK, because the US VPN are not working or down.

 

There is the whole subject of Tor browsers, as well. Point is, we have information filtered trough a non IT person VBM, from another non IT person Ann, from the original, properly non IT person OM. What he was really doing? Bet he went to some service on the internet and used it not understanding what he was really doing. Unless you can audit the OM, you are really not going to know.

 

I goggled "How to make my computer seem like it is somewhere else?"

 

and got the following: "You need a proxy in the UK. You need to set up your browser or connection to rout its traffic through the IP the proxy gives you. I'd suggest taking a look at this list: Proxy List | Sorted by anonymity type #1. If you're using Firefox, the FoxyProxy add-on can do the job. "

 

 

Here is another site How To Watch Streaming Video Anywhere in the World

 

It gives a "The VPN Method" It gives 2 sites "StrongVPN" or "HideMyAss Pro".

 

Both would give a "false" IP address.

 

Point is, if you are a POS, and wanted to defeat the region block on the web cam it is easily done. Now the odds of meeting someone you know, or can id? Well, if you are of the mind set, you take the bet. What is to lose?

 

When I searched "hide my ip address" the second thing up was VPN service.

 

 

So, while I'm not sure I buy the whole story, its apparently not as far fetched as some believe. No one has yet mentioned that he may have used social engineering or she may have foolishly and unwittingly given him enough clues to track her down.

 

 

If I'm not mistaken VBM said they talked on the cam site.

[velvette]

Velvette, I hear you laughing. Like I said, each part of the story is plausible standing alone, except for how they met. But putting it all in one story is beyond the pale. When I used "fetish" to describe being a sub, it was shorthand.

 

I completely understand the historical context. I am in the same age range. If she is 52 or less, then she was a kid in the 70's so " I am woman, hear me roar" was a bit ahead of her time. She was most likely a Zoom kid. Graduated HS between 81-83. Not the most sexually repressed generation.

 

And now, why I say that this story is too much. A CSA victim has an affair with a sexual assault perp. Too much. Still, see below for my opus.

 

.

 

 

I don't agree with your generational assessment. 81-83 is a few short years with overlap on either side depending on where you were, how you were raised, whether you had older siblings and so many other things. In general it was not fashionable even then to be into BDSM as it is now.

 

 

As to the bolded its not at all too much. He also said he was a childhood sexual abuse victim and its not uncommon for criminal abusers to have been victims themselves.

 

 

Its not different that the common scenarios of women who are raised by an alcoholic and marry alcoholics or women who are abused and marry abusers. Repetition of the original trauma hoping to make it turn out differently this time. Happens all the time.

 

 

Not to mention that on a site like that I would assume the level of dysfunction is much higher than most other venues where she might have met someone.

 

 

As for you opus, I honestly don't get most of what you are saying, as I don't see the contradictions you see.

 

 

You seem to be saying that she cant be naïve, innocent, unsuspecting, lacking experience in dealing with men and their sometimes less than honorable methods of obtaining sex because she was raped as a child.

 

 

Sorry, that does not compute for me. Most rape victims I have known whether child or adult do not make comparisons between rapists and men they engage with consensually. Its apples to oranges.

 

 

So, she has no experience in negotiating/navigating a consensual R other than with VBM before OM.

 

 

Doesn't make her a victim, because its her fault she put herself in the situation to be played, especially in an arena like the internet where there are an extraordinary number of players/predators.

 

 

As for VBM having all the emails, again not sure your point. There were phone calls and in person meeting where he doesn't necessarily know what was said. I'm not seeing how that changes the overall story.

[understand50]

I

As for VBM having all the emails, again not sure your point. There were phone calls and in person meeting where he doesn't necessarily know what was said. I'm not seeing how that changes the overall story.

 

I would state that VBM knows more then most BS, about what happened. He knows the overall story, and can push for more or accept what he has.

[bigman1]

I guess the point is this: If he had all of the texts and emails, how is it possible that not a single text or email referenced cam shows? Sure, they may have communicated on the cam site, but there had to be some planning and set up after that. Remember, the whole fantasy component. Not once in a single text or email for 77 days did they mention the cam shows? Not once did they not discuss the humiliation component? Not once in 77 days of emails and texts, of which he has every single one, nothing was said about this whole mess?

 

As to a rapist connecting with a CSA survivor, I have to point out the obvious chain of events. A sexual predator, who is amazingly using a VPN provided by his job (See, J in my earlier post), finds a CSA survivor who is actively blocking people in her region, who is also camming during work hours (I assume it was work hours unless she was able to carry on cam shows while the writer was home and oblivious), and who lives nearby AND who is a FB friend of his wife, on whose FB page he happens to be on the Woman's birthday, AND he saw it and recognized her face. (Ever seen birthday notifications on FB- Usually just a names of all friends who have birthdays, unless its just one) (So maybe she was the only FB friend with a birthday that day)

 

He claimed that she was caught up with him and infatuated (See, H in my earlier post) and yet later states, " she said, [...] there was no attraction physical or otherwise" (See, K in my post). So now, the reader is left to ponder, was she infatuated with him as was evident from the texts and emails, and the transcribed phone call or not. These are polar opposites. How can the writer claim to have seen all the proof in texts and emails and then later the exact opposite?

 

It just does not add up. In any event, it does not matter. I have spent enough time going back and re-reading all of VBM's posts. I actually had a much bigger list of glaring contradictions, but after reading it, I decided that I should just stop. I realized that I was not in court and was taking it too far. I have made my point. I'm going to try not to say anything else about it.

[SpokenFor]

Hi all,

 

This is a technical post, not trying to threadjack anything, but IP address mapping over VPNs (any sort, including IPSEC or SSL VPNs) is very common. I have product development experience (even patents) in application/content delivery and know of many cases where it became very difficult to assert, for instance, that only users based in Switzerland could get access to particular parts of a financial company's database due to IP re-mapping that happens all the time in corporate networks.

 

So, without trying to run a forensic investigation, I can state with certainty that an ordinary schmuck...er, user... in a corporate network doing login from home could be mapped to an IP address indicating a completely different physical location (other side of the country) and not have to do anything to get that. It is also very possible that the CDN used by the cam company was poorly put together and didn't block things correctly.

 

The number and complexity of forward and reverse proxies in delivery networks these days is staggering. It really is a wonder it all works pretty well.

 

That's just my two cents...

[Confused48]

What normal married woman with children, 27 years into her marriage desires to be naked with in a Vegas strip joint?

 

How about an aging beauty, insecure about her looks, gets encouraged and then feels, "Hey - I've still got it! They want to see me!"

 

As I recall it was pretty tame - just topless. Lots of places that is expected. Beach in Europe for example. So what if she did it at a posh club with her H and others getting a thrill. I'm sure a lot of women her age would love to get a good reaction like that. I see nothing wrong with it. It sounds fun and harmless, for someone without her CSA history.

[velvette]

I guess the point is this: If he had all of the texts and emails, how is it possible that not a single text or email referenced cam shows? Sure, they may have communicated on the cam site, but there had to be some planning and set up after that. Remember, the whole fantasy component. Not once in a single text or email for 77 days did they mention the cam shows? Not once did they not discuss the humiliation component? Not once in 77 days of emails and texts, of which he has every single one, nothing was said about this whole mess?

 

.

 

 

Valid question. Apparently, VBM doesn't have the messaging that happened on Facebook where OM told her he knew her secret.

 

 

I gathered the discussion about her abuse and desire for humiliation etc(if that was even discussed, not sure.......would have been pretty obvious from her behavior) took place in person at the first meeting. There wouldn't be any reason she had to discuss it again and she may not have wanted to discuss it...just to act it out.

 

 

Without seeing it all in context hard to say. I don't think its outside the realm of possibility she/he/both could have been trying to keep texts/emails clean or at least clean of the extreme stuff.

 

 

And maybe they did discuss it, but not in a way that made it clear what was actually going on.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I don't have the enrgry to respond to every post but I've read them all and I'll respond to a few. Thank you for ALL the posts.

 

Has there ever been an affair that made sense? There are so many people here that are just so jaded and bitter that when a situation does not seem possible they question it.

 

The fact is my wife was raped repeatedly starting at age 11. I spoke with my sister in law for about an hour this weekend about it. She found out after it had been going on for a couple of years at the point of her having a miscarriage. My wife begged her not to tell anyone including their parents and she did not. My SIL went to the creep and told him that if he even breathed in her direction again she was going straight to the police. My SIL tried to talk to my wife many times and she just shut down and would not even talk about it. So the rape is a fact. It is also a fact that she would not talk to her sister about it, the only other person in her life that knew. Why would you think she would take to me about it?

 

I'm just no going to take the time to respond to anything else, it's not worth it. For those who think she is lying I appreciate your opinion but your wrong. You were not in the room when she told me, you do not know her. She has done EVERYTHING I've asked her to for almost a year now. She is changing herself, she is remorseful and devastated by what she chose to do. She is owning it and not making any excuses and certainly not blaming the affair on the CSA. That is a totally separate issue in her mind and has never once offered it up as a excuse. In case anyone is wondering the PI is still working on the case and yesterday reported "no evidence" of anything out of the ordinary thus far.

 

For those of you who have offered support, I have read your posts several times now and I thank you and I agree with most of what you are saying. There are just too many and I'm too far behind to respond to each and every one.

[velvette]

As to a rapist connecting with a CSA survivor, I have to point out the obvious chain of events. A sexual predator, who is amazingly using a VPN provided by his job (See, J in my earlier post), finds a CSA survivor who is actively blocking people in her region, who is also camming during work hours (I assume it was work hours unless she was able to carry on cam shows while the writer was home and oblivious), and who lives nearby AND who is a FB friend of his wife, on whose FB page he happens to be on the Woman's birthday, AND he saw it and recognized her face. (Ever seen birthday notifications on FB- Usually just a names of all friends who have birthdays, unless its just one) (So maybe she was the only FB friend with a birthday that day)

 

.

 

 

The rate of CSA is estimated by some as high as 20%. Not that rare.

 

 

I already agree the whole found you on wifes facebook is hinky to me....too many coincidences.

 

 

Here is what I think happened after relooking at it...........he did the image search on all his wife's friends pictures and bingo got a hit on MRS VBM. Because even doing the image search from the cam site and getting a hit on one of his wife's facebook friends is way to coincidental for me. Then he created the" found you on facebook and using VPN" story to cover his con/stalking of her. She passed the lie detector on that because she is telling the truth as she knows it. And, she actually is as naïve as VBM says.

 

 

And having said all that I still leave open the possibility she initiated the A or responded to him hitting on her on the cam site. Not sure why she would lie about that at this point given everything else she has admitted to.

[VeryBrokenMan]

How about an aging beauty, insecure about her looks, gets encouraged and then feels, "Hey - I've still got it! They want to see me!"

 

As I recall it was pretty tame - just topless. Lots of places that is expected. Beach in Europe for example. So what if she did it at a posh club with her H and others getting a thrill. I'm sure a lot of women her age would love to get a good reaction like that. I see nothing wrong with it. It sounds fun and harmless, for someone without her CSA history.

 

It was a high end strip club (if there ever was one) and it was just topless. A couple of the other wives did it was well. It was fun for everybody and no big deal. We all agree (me, her, her IC) that was the start of when she realized that exposing herself gave her some type of relief from the CSA. The IC explained it's a way to take back the power and it's common in many CSA victims.

[VeryBrokenMan]

You make some valid points.

 

One thing I have always respected about VBM is his insistence on making his own decisions about his life. I really think that will serve him well. I have seen all sorts of things recommended on forums: abandoning children when the DNA doesn't match, moving across the country, quitting the breadwinning, family-supporting job at a moment's notice, cutting off entire extended families....none of us who recommend such things are the ones who have to deal with the fallout. We don't have to try to sell a house, provide for a family with no income, deal with the 7 year old daughter who wants to know why the only daddy she has ever known doesn't want her anymore, etc.

 

VBM is the kind of man who is going to do what he feels is best for him even if half the world thinks he is crazy. And that is a very very good thing.

 

That is exactly right. Had I listened to many here right after dday I would be divorced right now and kicking myself for not attempting to rebuild. Hell I admit that it may not work out but at least I know I've given it my best effort and I can walk away proud of who I am. I don't have to wear any shame at all in any of this. I did the right thing.

 

There are no right answers when somebody you love cheats on you. There is no escaping the pain, it will still be there if you divorce and it will be there if you stay. My IC told me I think in our first meeting don't divorce because of the affair, divorce if it's not the marriage you want a year from now. When we are not talking about the affair/etc it IS the marriage I want and she is the woman I want to be with. I'm working hard to find forgiveness and to give time a chance to heal me. Why would I toss what I have away to be alone or to be with another women who more than likely would have more baggage than we do? As far as I know there are very few 50 year old women that have never been divorced or broken in some manner. Many have been abused by husbands or cheated on. Why would I trade a known for an unknown?

 

I think it comes down to ego for a lot of you guys(both men and women). Your ego will not allow you to forgive someone that did you wrong. I've got a news flash, it's not about you. An affair is about a WS's brokenness not something that is broken or wrong with the BS. A WS has lost something in themselves that needs to be fixed. So why is your(the BS) ego taking a hit? Ask yourself that. I think it comes down to your self esteem. I happen to think I'm a kick ass husband, successful, very fit, not ugly, and I could have any number of woman. I choose who I want to be with and on what terms. Anyone can make that choice. I chose to be happy and anyone can make that choice as well. I choose to be with her and any BH can make that choice for their WW if there ego will let them. Some just can't take the hit.

 

Life is short. Life is not fair. There are no perfect wives or husbands. Relationships are fragile. Wives cheat. Husbands cheat. We all die. Those are some of the rules we live by and we don't get to change them we just have to deal with the consequences. Set your minimum expectations for your spouse for reconciliation, hold them to it and move forward as you work on yourself. It's not rocket science.

 

I don't plan on being here a year from now. I will either be happily married or happily divorced. The key word there is happy. Everyone here can make that same choice. I hope everyone here will make that same choice.

[VeryBrokenMan]

The rate of CSA is estimated by some as high as 20%. Not that rare.

 

 

I already agree the whole found you on wifes facebook is hinky to me....too many coincidences.

 

 

Here is what I think happened after relooking at it...........he did the image search on all his wife's friends pictures and bingo got a hit on MRS VBM. Because even doing the image search from the cam site and getting a hit on one of his wife's facebook friends is way to coincidental for me. Then he created the" found you on facebook and using VPN" story to cover his con/stalking of her. She passed the lie detector on that because she is telling the truth as she knows it. And, she actually is as naïve as VBM says.

 

 

And having said all that I still leave open the possibility she initiated the A or responded to him hitting on her on the cam site. Not sure why she would lie about that at this point given everything else she has admitted to.

 

All that sounds plausible and believe me when I've gone over it time and time again in my head. I cannot see any reason for her to be lying about how it started at this point. It makes no sense for her to be lying about anything. She has given me all of the details on dday just not how it started or why. Why would she spin all this now? It's been 10 months, we are relatively happy, there is little reason to keep lying. For that reason alone it's bound to be the truth. The only reason it came up is because she is dealing with the CSA with her IC and is trying to stop the behavior that got her into trouble. I think it took her 10 months to come to terms with the CSA and the IC sort of confirmed that. They have been talking about telling me for months and I doubt the IC would be in on a lie.

[VeryBrokenMan]

How about an aging beauty, insecure about her looks, gets encouraged and then feels, "Hey - I've still got it! They want to see me!"

 

As I recall it was pretty tame - just topless. Lots of places that is expected. Beach in Europe for example. So what if she did it at a posh club with her H and others getting a thrill. I'm sure a lot of women her age would love to get a good reaction like that. I see nothing wrong with it. It sounds fun and harmless, for someone without her CSA history.

 

That's funny but your comment made me recall her telling me in the past she would like to visit a topless/nude beach. But that was years ago, so maybe it's a need that has been buried for a long time.