Wife of 31 years had an affair, my story

[HereNorThere]

What is significant about October?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I think he said something about waiting 6 months and seeing where things are then before he makes any life long decisions, but I could be wrong.

[mikethemechanic]

Nothing special. I felt no jealousy at any point in all this. Slightly shorter than I am, but very weak and overweight with a huge beer belly, tiny dick (saw the pics) and she confirmed, probably average to less than average looks. About 10 years younger than I am.

 

A player and he played the "bad boy" perfectly and my wife has a thing for that type. A very smooth talker with a "radio voice" and has worked on knowing the right things to say to move things along.

 

Not successful at all in life, no money or assets and I would have considered him pond scum even before the affair. I started out poor and on my own at 17 and I have no respect for any man in their 40's that have nothing to show for their life's work, it tells you the type of person they are. The fact that he aggressively went after a married women on Facebook out of the blue tells me the rest.

 

So then she is a cougar had he been 20 years younger it would have been better.he had no money so she paid for everything, VBM you don't know what know! After spending most of Career busting drug dealers and the prostitutes both male and female that move the stuff for them. There's one thing that I learned everyone pays for sex! XWW chased him and not the other way around if you don't want to be harassed by a hooker don't acknowledge them.

[sandylee1]

So then she is a cougar had he been 20 years younger it would have been better.he had no money so she paid for everything, VBM you don't know what know! After spending most of Career busting drug dealers and the prostitutes both male and female that move the stuff for them. There's one thing that I learned everyone pays for sex! XWW chased him and not the other way around if you don't want to be harassed by a hooker don't acknowledge them.

 

I can't understand the point of this post.

VBM is currently reconciling and your comments really don't appear helpful, more hurtful if anything.

[sandylee1]

Wow, OP, why do you want to stay with trash that goes out and bangs a guy and can't even be bothered to use protection?

 

Tact and diplomacy wouldn't go amiss.

No need to call his wife 'trash'

[sandylee1]

VBM

 

On this and other threads there are a few really hurt and bitter members. A lot of these stories are probably triggers for them and they seem unable to get past their pain. That is evident from the comments they make.

 

Individuals in life make really bad choices. Forgiving and trying to make things work seems like an alien concept to them.

 

Take the advice you find helpful and leave the rest. Don't let any rude or disrespectful posts get to you.

[VeryBrokenMan]

VBM

 

On this and other threads there are a few really hurt and bitter members. A lot of these stories are probably triggers for them and they seem unable to get past their pain. That is evident from the comments they make.

 

Individuals in life make really bad choices. Forgiving and trying to make things work seems like an alien concept to them.

 

Take the advice you find helpful and leave the rest. Don't let any rude or disrespectful posts get to you.

 

Thank you. I've learned to just ignore it, it's a waste of their time to post it because I'm not reading it.

[minimariah]

VBM, i truly hope you'll make it through this. you seem like such a nice guy and i think you deserve better than this. you know your wife the best and you know if it's worth it. just keep your head up & keep going. one day at a time.

 

you're not alone, remember that.

Edited March 9, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed reference to deleted post~T

[VeryBrokenMan]

 

VBM, i truly hope you'll make it through this. you seem like such a nice guy and i think you deserve better than this. you know your wife the best and you know if it's worth it. just keep your head up & keep going. one day at a time.

 

you're not alone, remember that.

 

Thank you. None of us deserves to be cheated on and I feel very badly for everyone here. But I'm here because of thoughts like yours and many others that I value highly.

 

"One day at a time" my WW tells me that every day.

Edited March 9, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[VeryBrokenMan]

She left me a note in my closet this morning with a big heart drawn on it and it said:

 

"I love you more than you will ever know and I will never ever hurt you again if you just give me the chance to prove it."

 

I stuck it in my pocket and thought it was nice.

 

I wrote a lot of checks earlier today and I put 03/13 on everyone of them.

 

And I just realized that today is 5 months since DDay and it took me until 3pm to realize it and I only did because I was responding to another post here. I'd say that is good progress.

 

I'm honestly feeling pretty good with life right now. Some hours are worse but there are no longer any days that just wipe me out like several months ago. I not glad the affair happened but I'm really liking our new relationship. We tell each other what we are thinking and we don't hold back anything. The honestly really feels good.

 

Hope everyone finds peace in their life!

 

Have a great weekend!

[10thengineerharrison]

Thank you. I've learned to just ignore it, it's a waste of their time to post it because I'm not reading it.

 

On Had's thread you suggested I don't know your story, so I came here to read about some of it. I've got some rather strong opinions about what I've read, but this post of yours will save me the time I would have "wasted" posting them.

 

Be well,

-10th Engineer Harrison

[merrmeade]

VBM

 

On this and other threads there are a few really hurt and bitter members. A lot of these stories are probably triggers for them and they seem unable to get past their pain. That is evident from the comments they make.

 

Individuals in life make really bad choices. Forgiving and trying to make things work seems like an alien concept to them.

 

Take the advice you find helpful and leave the rest. Don't let any rude or disrespectful posts get to you.

It's reassuring when somebody calls this. I remember my own 2-, 3-month confusion post d-day and ended up taking a LS vacation for a while. It really doesn't help to be judgmental and pessimistic or a bully when you're giving advice because you want to help someone. Makes no sense either.

 

I hope VBM is well past reacting like he says, but I'll admit it makes me think twice about starting my own thread again.

[Mrs. John Adams]

VBM...John and i are pulling for you and you certainly have our best wishes and support. I think it is wonderful that you and your lovely wife are progressing so quickly...especially from a torrid love affair like the one you wife has had.

 

I have been reading all of your posts and i do want to share something with you.

 

Remorse does not happen overnight....it doesn't even happen over months...it takes years. Years for the both of you to even comprehend what has happened to you and years to process it.

 

Most experts say it takes 2-5 years....and when i think back i would say John was in a state of shock for that amount of time if not more. You go through so many phases and you have to process each one.

 

Infidelity is like a death....you don't ever "get over" the death of a loved one. You learn to live with it. It takes time....and 5 months in the scheme of things is a drop in the bucket.

 

I would never insult you or disrespect you...but i want you to know...John and I are 32 years from DDAY....and we are still processing..we are still healing...we are still living with my infidelity.

 

I don't want you to confuse apologies, fears and tears for remorse.....because remorse is a much deeper and bigger emotion. It took me a very long time to figure that out. I speak from experience. I hope your wife has truly achieved remorse so quickly...I hope you have indeed experienced forgiveness for her....I hope you live together happily ever after...I truly do. But i would be lying to you if i told you i am not concerned.

 

I would never tell you to give up and divorce....I want your to be a reconciliation success. But i also want you to be realistic. Please be open minded to the advise and suggestions these good people offer to you. No one here wants you to fail...no one...

 

Sometimes they are harsh...sometimes they grow impatient with you because they feel like you are not listening and they fear you are in for disappointment.

 

But everyone here wants you to heal and be happy....we are praying for you and you have our very best wishes.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[lovinDKT3]

VBM...John and i are pulling for you and you certainly have our best wishes and support. I think it is wonderful that you and your lovely wife are progressing so quickly...especially from a torrid love affair like the one you wife has had.

 

I have been reading all of your posts and i do want to share something with you.

 

Remorse does not happen overnight....it doesn't even happen over months...it takes years. Years for the both of you to even comprehend what has happened to you and years to process it.

 

Most experts say it takes 2-5 years....and when i think back i would say John was in a state of shock for that amount of time if not more. You go through so many phases and you have to process each one.

 

Infidelity is like a death....you don't ever "get over" the death of a loved one. You learn to live with it. It takes time....and 5 months in the scheme of things is a drop in the bucket.

 

I would never insult you or disrespect you...but i want you to know...John and I are 32 years from DDAY....and we are still processing..we are still healing...we are still living with my infidelity.

 

I don't want you to confuse apologies, fears and tears for remorse.....because remorse is a much deeper and bigger emotion. It took me a very long time to figure that out. I speak from experience. I hope your wife has truly achieved remorse so quickly...I hope you have indeed experienced forgiveness for her....I hope you live together happily ever after...I truly do. But i would be lying to you if i told you i am not concerned.

 

I would never tell you to give up and divorce....I want you to be a reconciliation success. But i also want you to be realistic. Please be open minded to the advise and suggestions these good people offer to you. No one here wants you to fail...no one...

 

Sometimes they are harsh...sometimes they grow impatient with you because they feel like you are not listening and they fear you are in for disappointment.

 

But everyone here wants you to heal and be happy....we are praying for you and you have our very best wishes.

 

What an excellant post.

 

As someone who also had an affair I can second that remorse is much deeper.

 

Even after the divorce I saw it all as something that happened TO me and not as a result of my actions. I spent a lot of time crying about how it all affected me, how I was in pain, how I feared being alone. I felt sorry for myself. What about what DKT was going through. Once my pain was for him, and not for myself did I reach true remorse. It was really at that point that I finally understood what I had done. Its easy to say it, harder to show it. If and when she gets there it will leave no doubt in your mind that she gets it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

lovinDKT3....I agree with you 100%. And not all cheaters are capable of ever achieving it. I am ashamed that it took me so many years. and I hope I can help others to find it faster than i did. I made so very many mistakes.

 

I just have a hard time comprehending that it can be achieved so quickly....but i hope VBM is right...I truly do.

 

I am very happy for you and your husband and congratulations on the new baby.

[SawtoothMars]

I would never insult you or disrespect you...but i want you to know...John and I are 32 years from DDAY....and we are still processing..we are still healing...we are still living with my infidelity.

 

I don't want you to confuse apologies, fears and tears for remorse.....because remorse is a much deeper and bigger emotion. It took me a very long time to figure that out. I speak from experience. I hope your wife has truly achieved remorse so quickly...I hope you have indeed experienced forgiveness for her....I hope you live together happily ever after...I truly do. But i would be lying to you if i told you i am not concerned.

 

Two points. First this is AMAZING advice! I was trying to tell VBM in a previous thread that his wife probably is more in "faking it to keep the marriage" mode than any real remorse.

 

Second... 32 years? 32 Years? 32 YEARS? Holy hot damn. To be entirely honest... if I were John I would probably have completely forgotten it ever happened by this point. I can't even remember 1983.... well maybe thats mostly because I was 3. My point being that I'm sure John made the effort to work through this because he knows you are worth it.

 

lovinDKT3....I agree with you 100%. And not all cheaters are capable of ever achieving it. I am ashamed that it took me so many years. and I hope I can help others to find it faster than i did. I made so very many mistakes.

I just have a hard time comprehending that it can be achieved so quickly....but i hope VBM is right...I truly do.

I am very happy for you and your husband and congratulations on the new baby.

 

Um... my xWife sent me an email about 2 years after the divorce. It basically just said... "I'm Sorry" without actually admitting to anything... I actually caught them at a hotel together and she claimed they were just "talking".

 

However I do see that as a big step for her, because she completely lives in the moment and has no sentimentality or any capacity for retrospection.

[Mrs. John Adams]

When i read some of the stories here how after a few months everything is fine....i truly question the dynamics of the story and the couple.

 

It took us years to even face the true reality of what happened....much less to begin to HEAL from it.

 

John went on anti depressants...we went to counseling....we went to church...we moved to a new town....

 

and in some of these threads we read where the WS and the AP still works together...yikes!

 

I have no doubt that VBM and his wife still love each other very much. I have no doubt that their history of 31 years of a good marriage will hold them together.....i have no doubt she is sorry for what she has done. I have no doubt that they will succeed in reconciling...because they both desire it and seem to be willing to work toward it.

 

My concern is that a few months out everyone seems to be convinced....remorse has been achieved....forgiveness given and we are doing great!

 

If VBM is not having MAJOR triggers on a daily...make that hourly basis....something tells me something is amiss. You do not suffer this kind of drama...and it simply disappears from your thoughts and mind.

If that were the case...why are we all here?

[VeryBrokenMan]

My concern is that a few months out everyone seems to be convinced....remorse has been achieved....forgiveness given and we are doing great!

 

If VBM is not having MAJOR triggers on a daily...make that hourly basis....something tells me something is amiss. You do not suffer this kind of drama...and it simply disappears from your thoughts and mind.

If that were the case...why are we all here?

 

Please see post 334:

 

Some hours are worse but there are no longer any days that just wipe me out like several months ago.

I can still trigger (and do) on a daily basis. The difference is that I've chosen not to dwell on it and chosen not to let it affect my entire day. Something will come up that triggers me and I ask questions and we talk about it calmly. Sometimes I need to let the emotions out if it gets intense but regardless we move on as a couple. We have talked several hours a day for the last five months on average and are now to the point where we can both drop it and not let it ruin the rest of the day or evening. Typically we are both awake around 4am and she whispers "are you awake" and then we talk for two or three hours. Each night we go to sleep she is the little spoon and that picked back up about 4 days post dday. We were and still are an intimate and close couple.

 

I think she knows that I cannot control the need to talk about the affair or my emotions to a large extent. I need to let the emotions out and she gets that. When I say she is taking on my pain she truly is. She hurts when I'm hurting. And honestly she is more angry at herself now than I am. I let me anger out early on and about a month ago she started to feel that for herself.

 

You have to understand that we have been happily married for a long time. We have been exclusive for 35 years(baring the affair) and did not reach that milestone without knowing how to communicate, see the other persons side, how to fight fair. Yes she has some issues and so do I but we were happily married. There has been some distance but no unhappiness on her part that would rise to the level of wanting to have an affair (her words).

 

So had I been really unhappy prior to the affair or vice-versa this may have been a divorce but that's not the case. We were and are best friends and still value each other. So maybe that is the difference I don't know.

 

I was trying to tell VBM in a previous thread that his wife probably is more in "faking it to keep the marriage" mode than any real remorse.

How would you describe real remorse? I'm certain I can't describe it but I know it feels real. I questioned this quite a bit in the weeks following DDay. And during that time I think at times she was faking it. But the last couple of months I have seen sincere remorse. I can't describe it and I'm not sure anyone here can . It's almost a gut feel that you just know it's real.

 

I don't have rose colored glasses on and I see there is a lot more pain to go. But as I've said before her behavior is not going to define my life. And my pain is not going to dictate how I live. I choose to be happy. And I'm choosing to define the rest of my life not by her affair but what I want.

 

My therapist is a believer in cognitive behavior therapy and since the affair I've worked with her on the techniques and read several books on the subject. I'm not sure the total number of hours I've spent but 3 times a week over 5 months adds up to a lot of work on my part. She has done the same amount of work on her side.

 

Cognitive behavioral therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

"Therapists or computer-based programs use CBT techniques to help individuals challenge their patterns and beliefs and replace "errors in thinking such as overgeneralizing, magnifying negatives, minimizing positives and catastrophizing" with "more realistic and effective thoughts, thus decreasing emotional distress and self-defeating behavior."

 

Our respective therapists have endorsed how we are proceeding and mine has not voiced any concerns or problems with the speed or any issues with rugsweeping or the like.

 

I don't think anyone here can apply their experience to anyone else's affair we are all unique and have unique relationships. And while I don't think we are doing great as you put it Mrs. JA, I am feeling good about things and I am happy most of the time.

[VeryBrokenMan]

VBM...John and i are pulling for you and you certainly have our best wishes and support. I think it is wonderful that you and your lovely wife are progressing so quickly...especially from a torrid love affair like the one you wife has had.

Thank you.

 

I would not characterize it as a "torrid love affair". It lasted less than 80 days, and consisted of 400 texts, 4.5 hours of phones calls and two sexual encounters about 2 hours each. Most of the calls she says were mundane chit chat. Mostly him doing the talking and him complimenting her. I feel sure the sex was not good for her because of what she has described. She admits it was new and exciting but not anything like the passion we have and she felt uncomfortable the entire time. And before anyone says she is lying she is willing( and really wants to) to take a polygraph on ANY of these questions.

 

Please remember I have all the texts and much of them are him asking for pics or asking to meet and trying to talk her into it. I have to assume she is not lying when she says the calls were more of the same.

 

One response the morning I gave her the ultimatum was "I'm relieved that it's over'. She did not know that morning the depth of what I knew. She did not have to admit anything. I told her I had the divorce papers ready but if she came clean I would consider holding off. She did not have to admit to having sex but she did when I asked. She did not have to admit to how many times but she did when I asked. She did not have to admit to the phone sex as I have no recordings of her phone calls. I asked once if she had phone sex and she said she did. I asked about nude pictures and she admitted it. I asked about protection during sex and she admitted they did not use any. So I think it's safe to assume that if she is willing to admit to sex and phone sex right off the bat then I'm getting all the truth about everything.

 

So when I asked if she loved him and she says no, while should I doubt that? No, it was not about love at all, her love for him or lack of it for me.

 

And after typing all of the above I feel her candidness that morning of the ultimatum was a way of showing remorse. She was done hiding it at that point and just wanted to confess to everything. She was very embarrassed and angry with herself that she let it happen. At the time and for several months I did not believe any of it but I do now knowing everything I know. You have to understand my wife is a moral person she just did a very immoral thing and that has eaten at her. She did not see herself as immoral before and the guilt and self hatred from that alone has made her remorseful.

 

I have been reading all of your posts and i do want to share something with you.

 

Remorse does not happen overnight....it doesn't even happen over months...it takes years. Years for the both of you to even comprehend what has happened to you and years to process it.

I've spoken at length with my therapist about this and I've described what I've seen and she feels it genuine and tells me I should trust myself on this.

 

Most experts say it takes 2-5 years....and when i think back i would say John was in a state of shock for that amount of time if not more. You go through so many phases and you have to process each one.

The books I've read and my therapist all seem to state this timeframe for complete healing. Not just to feel remorse?

 

Infidelity is like a death....you don't ever "get over" the death of a loved one. You learn to live with it. It takes time....and 5 months in the scheme of things is a drop in the bucket.

Absolutely it's like a death and I've rebounded in this amount of time from the death of my parents and other loved ones. Maybe I'm able to deal with things faster because I do throw everything into it for a few months, I don't "not think about it" EVER.

 

I would never insult you or disrespect you...but i want you to know...John and I are 32 years from DDAY....and we are still processing..we are still healing...we are still living with my infidelity.

I get that is what your doing. I'm chooing not to dwell on the affair. See the info on CBT, you can choose to react and deal with anything in a positive manner.

 

I don't want you to confuse apologies, fears and tears for remorse.....because remorse is a much deeper and bigger emotion. It took me a very long time to figure that out. I speak from experience. I hope your wife has truly achieved remorse so quickly...I hope you have indeed experienced forgiveness for her....I hope you live together happily ever after...I truly do. But i would be lying to you if i told you i am not concerned.

Thanks for the concern. My eyes are wide open.

 

I would never tell you to give up and divorce....I want your to be a reconciliation success. But i also want you to be realistic. Please be open minded to the advise and suggestions these good people offer to you. No one here wants you to fail...no one...

I believe that too many people here are so blinded by their negative results they are truly unable to see the good in anyone trying to reconcile. And in a way they don't want anyone to succeed to prove them wrong.

 

Sometimes they are harsh...sometimes they grow impatient with you because they feel like you are not listening and they fear you are in for disappointment.

I'm listening, but they don't know us or me. My therapist warned me not to take advise from anyone that does not have a vested interest in my life. Not friends or certainly not strangers on the internet.

 

But everyone here wants you to heal and be happy....we are praying for you and you have our very best wishes.

Thank you.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Please be open minded to the advise and suggestions these good people offer to you.

One more thing on this subject. The reason why I'm here is to hear what other people think. Often the contrary view helps me to firm up my opposite beliefs. Not that I reject their argument, just that it allows me to see mine as stronger. That is the key reason I've started so many threads on different subjects. I use those opinions of others to crystallize my thinking on any given subject. I'm an extremely independent person and an independent thinker and while I'll listen to ALL viewpoints I'm not easily led or convinced. That type thinking and process has served me well in my life.

[VeryBrokenMan]

My therapist warned me not to take advise from anyone that does not have a vested interest in my life

Actually that is not accurate and I could not edit it. She said not to give advise from strangers that same weight as advise from those who know and love you, ie close family, those with a vested interest.

[Oberfeldwebel]

VBM, I think that is subjective. I think for D+5 months you are doing very good. Naturally to completely heal will take many more days, but I don't think that was your point. Still you both need deserve a big Atta-boy and Atta-girl for your progress. Firstly for you, over 50% of the BS at D+5 are in the divorce process, so the fact that you are capable of trying to reconcile is admirable in and of itself. For your WS, she is also to be commended as it certainly appears to me that she gets it and is contrite. Also you two are doing some good things, in that you can have a discussion without everything having to be a die on the sword issue. Additionally, you seem to have intimacy everyday, which is essential to a good relationship to me. I am not referring to just sex, though that is obviously part of the equation. I think you need to consider having carefree days, where there is no discussion all day about things that either of you did something wrong.

 

I think that most relationships can be repaired if both parties put in the hard work to overcome the problems. At D-day this seems like an overwhelming task. It is kind of like the old joke about "how do you eat an elephant sandwich?" and the answer is one bite at a time. I hope that this reconciliation will be create a very filling relationship for both of you.

[Mrs. John Adams]

well who am i to argue with all of that! you got this!

 

My best to you

 

Mrs. JA

 

ps....in my opinion the affair your wife had compared to the affair i had...was a torrid love affair.

 

1 phone call...no dates...1 encounter.....we KNEW each other 84 days

We did not have internet or cell phones in those days.

32 years since DDAY...STILL HEALING

[SawtoothMars]

How would you describe real remorse? I'm certain I can't describe it but I know it feels real. I questioned this quite a bit in the weeks following DDay. And during that time I think at times she was faking it. But the last couple of months I have seen sincere remorse. I can't describe it and I'm not sure anyone here can . It's almost a gut feel that you just know it's real.

I don't have rose colored glasses on and I see there is a lot more pain to go. But as I've said before her behavior is not going to define my life. And my pain is not going to dictate how I live. I choose to be happy. And I'm choosing to define the rest of my life not by her affair but what I want.

My therapist is a believer in cognitive behavior therapy and since the affair I've worked with her on the techniques and read several books on the subject. I'm not sure the total number of hours I've spent but 3 times a week over 5 months adds up to a lot of work on my part. She has done the same amount of work on her side.

Cognitive behavioral therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Therapists or computer-based programs use CBT techniques to help individuals challenge their patterns and beliefs and replace "errors in thinking such as overgeneralizing, magnifying negatives, minimizing positives and catastrophizing" with "more realistic and effective thoughts, thus decreasing emotional distress and self-defeating behavior."

Our respective therapists have endorsed how we are proceeding and mine has not voiced any concerns or problems with the speed or any issues with rugsweeping or the like.

I don't think anyone here can apply their experience to anyone else's affair we are all unique and have unique relationships. And while I don't think we are doing great as you put it Mrs. JA, I am feeling good about things and I am happy most of the time.

 

From everything I have experienced in counseling... CBT is very good at helping people break out of bad thought patterns.

 

I disagree that most of us actually share the same experiences and emotions with affairs. Heck... most of the affairs you read about here could be cut and pasted from one story to the next... with a very low variation.

 

You do however have some unique characteristics that bode well. For example, your wife did not trickle truth you and instead was honest from the get go. I think she probably was relieved to have it over. Also, you actually went 180 much faster than most.

 

True Remorse. That could be the subject of a lengthy debate. Suffice it to say that true remorse cannot exist without the acceptance of consequences. What that means to you is different from what it means to others. You may think her being forced to watch you cry is a consequence. Maybe it is. Some people here would only be satisfied with a public flogging as you once suggested. I tend to believe it's best somewhere in between. Take that for what it's worth.

[beach]

Actually that is not accurate and I could not edit it. She said not to give advise from strangers that same weight as advise from those who know and love you, ie close family, those with a vested interest.

 

Well sure. HOWEVER... Those that are NOT emotionally involved - and have nothing to gain by the outcome and have had their own experience with this type of situation - to me, the BEST resource you could find.

 

 

 

It's not possible to get real life experience in many places - but here it's doled out like candy - and it's free!

 

Take ideas to try out and leave others be if you think it's not for you.

 

But my many years in the field and so many resources available - I think this forum rocks on so many levels.

[VeryBrokenMan]

well who am i to argue with all of that! you got this!

 

My best to you

 

Mrs. JA

 

ps....in my opinion the affair your wife had compared to the affair i had...was a torrid love affair.

 

1 phone call...no dates...1 encounter.....we KNEW each other 84 days

We did not have internet or cell phones in those days.

32 years since DDAY...STILL HEALING

 

That sounds a lot like sarcasm and I hope I didn't offend you.

 

I'm open to ideas here but please understand that I've been attacked for trying to reconcile by many here and I feel the need to stand firm.

 

I think you had a ONS but what really matters is what I think her affair was and what Mr. JA thinks yours was.