Realist3 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 You know what's ironic? Even if she left for the OM I would bet that void empties again. It is what happens in marriage. Things get routine and each party loses focus on things. I agree with you though. I think his wife was being sincere in the call. Especially if she was crying. Right there is a clear emotional signal of honesty. Everyone has voids in their relationships. For some it is sex, for others, validation, emotional bonding, etc.. The list is endless. The question is what importance does the person place on those voids. I agree. I think if she did leave for the OM she would find other voids that pop up that might be more important to her than the ones she was chasing after with him. Yes, she was sincere. She was losing someone that fulfilled some needs she had. I will agree with others. The transcript sounds like a parting of ways call. If they were going to take it further underground those points would have been made perfectly clear. I'm just dumbfounded that she had this type of relationship and didn't have back channel means of communication. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 The PI was under his employ. It would be pretty difficult to argue that the OP did not know what was taking place when he allowed the 'closure call' to take place. That was the sole intent. On top of that, anyone that is familiar with PI's knows that they consult you with what they are going to do Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Often, many people decline to sue in knowing that it will become a matter of public record. They make think twice about airing the dirty laundry. Most cheaters would like to preserve the image they've cultivated. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Often, many people decline to sue in knowing that it will become a matter of public record. They make think twice about airing the dirty laundry. Most cheaters would like to preserve the image they've cultivated. True, but in most cases it results in a settlement before it gets to court. I'm just telling him what he can expect should this get to that point. For the PI to get the transcript, he had to allow the PI to put something on her phone. You can't even log into your spouses email on their computer without permission legally. Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 True, but in most cases it results in a settlement before it gets to court. I'm just telling him what he can expect should this get to that point. For the PI to get the transcript, he had to allow the PI to put something on her phone. You can't even log into your spouses email on their computer without permission legally. My advice would be "bring it on", and call their bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm not getting the bluff part. The law is very clear. Link to post Share on other sites
Sub Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yeah, I wouldn't call their bluff. He's not just dealing with the WW in this case, as I'm sure the OM would be in her ear as well. The OM in our case was going through his own legal drama in a D, so he was well-versed and more than willing to advise my WW on how to proceed. Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm not getting the bluff part. The law is very clear. This isn't a matter of an innocent. Of course, threatening to sue but holding out for a settlement is expected. When push comes to shove, it's really a bluff to intimidate. Rarely, would someone who has an image to protect would focus the spotlight in a matter of public record that will air their dirty laundry and damage their public persona. You claim to be a prominent member of your community, I'm sure you'd threaten to sue, but I doubt you'd actually go to court and have your personal life exposed on public record. That would really be a dumb thing to do if you're dependant on maintaing the persona your cultivated with family, friends and colleagues. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 This is true. I ended my affair for the most part without a dday. Many of the things said, I also said in some form. Most of which I didn't really mean or believe. VeryBrokenMan, in a matter of weeks or months these comment may also make your wife feel sick. At that moment she was in a haze, like a teenager who's parents made her break up with the town bad boy (line stolen from DKT). I don't think you should either buy or sell those comments as 100% truth or 100% B.S. She may mean some, some could simply be talk. The one thing I know I did during my A was fished for the OM to validate my poor decisions and re-enforce the bad behavior. Sounds to me there was a lot of that going on. Thanks for the input, one of the few positive comments I've seen but seems to come from someone that's been there. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 This isn't a matter of an innocent. Of course, threatening to sue but holding out for a settlement is expected. When push comes to shove, it's really a bluff to intimidate. Rarely, would someone who has an image to protect would focus the spotlight in a matter of public record that will air their dirty laundry and damage their public persona. You claim to be a prominent member of your community, I'm sure you'd threaten to sue, but I doubt you'd actually go to court and have your personal life exposed on public record. That would really be a dumb thing to do if you're dependant on maintaing the persona your cultivated with family, friends and colleagues. I wouldn't because I would never hold that much animosity towards my wife to try and screw her over financially. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks for all the comments there are a lot of good opinions and while I cant respond to every one of them I do appreciate all the input. Some points: 1. The phone was not wiretapped. The conversation was done in an office building and the PI was in the office next door. Not sure of anything else about how he got it. 2. I'd like to believe her and reconcile, just not sure yet. Need more time I guess to let the hurt die. 3. I think I'm going to ask for a "pre-nup" type of agreement if she wants to move forward. Basically to lock her in to a stated settlement and if she screws up from this point over it's all settled. Should be able to see the real her based on her reaction. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks for the input, one of the few positive comments I've seen but seems to come from someone that's been there. Yeah... you want to spend the next two decades trying to get over this? I was faced with the same choice as you and I realized that if I worked really hard I could probably get my wife back. I could probably get her to look back on what she did with some mixture of disgust and wistfulness. But why? Instead of spending the best 20 years of my life trying to get over some stupid affair, I just divorced her. Yes it was scary, and Yes it was hard, and Yes she fought like a demon. In short life sucked for about 6 months. However, I spent a few years dating wonderful and amazing women! I eventually married one and so far after 5 years... I can honestly say it was the best choice of my life. Just as they say your wife in this "affair fog", so are you! You won't understand just what a crappy wife/partner she is until you look around. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Just as they say your wife in this "affair fog", so are you! You won't understand just what a crappy wife/partner she is until you look around. I don't doubt that for a minute. I'm sure my judgement is pretty bad right now. Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks for the input, one of the few positive comments I've seen but seems to come from someone that's been there. A few posters are talking about how what she said on the phone conversation may not be true as it's part of the cheater's "affair fog". That could certainly be true as I've never cheated so have no experience with this "fog" thing. My advice really has nothing to do with that conversation. It's the way she truly feels or she's trying to make the break easier for both of them. I wouldn't care one way or another because to me it's all about her cheating. The subsequent stuff really doesn't mean that much and I'll give you my reasons: 1) You should not believe a word she says now. She's in full-fledged panic mode. She had life so great just a few weeks ago. She had you for support and companionship and her lover for excitement, sex and passion. How f'ing great is that? Is it any wonder she is scrambling in an attempt to appease you, keep her OM "warm" and let some time pass until she can get back to the cake-eating life she learned to love. 2) You are in a state of emotional shock. Your world is upside down and you are questioning everything you accepted as the way the world worked. You feel as if you are adrift in a sea of sh*t and anything remotely positive that she tosses you looks like a life-raft. You need time away from her so she can't manipulate you anymore. Yes, that may give her a chance to hook-up with OM, but if she does that isn't your decision made for you? You need to scare the hell out of her in such a way that she no longer thinks she can finesse this whole thing for a while and get back to her OM right under your nose. Once you leave you will find out what she really wants. Maybe not right away, but at some point she will realize that you aren't coming home. See a lawyer and start divorce proceedings. You can always drop the divorce action if things change down the line. My point in all of this is that you cannot be weak - you have to take firm action FOR YOUR SAKE! 3) What kind of character do you have? Are you the kind of man for whom sex is just sex? Is the emotional component of her cheating more important to you then the sex? is it somewhere in the middle? If the sex is huge for you then know that you will NEVER get the images of her with OM out of your mind. They are intrusive thoughts that can come out of nowhere or be triggered by certain places or songs or smells or whatever. If this is you then don't waste any time trying to reconcile as the chances you will ever look at her and not see a cheating slut are way too high. Look, I'm about your age and the thought of losing companionship and screwing up the financial plans for retirement is terrifying. I'm also a BH but my wife cheated decades ago and my case is more about unresolved issues. It's nothing like your situation. You have lived on this earth long enough to appreciate there's a lot less time ahead of you then there is behind you. If you stay weak and just hope things will get better and time will heal your wounds then you are doomed to a miserable retirement. Taking a hard line is your only chance. It will save your self-esteem and maybe even save your marriage. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I don't doubt that for a minute. I'm sure my judgement is pretty bad right now. Actually, I might have been a bit hasty with that. Your #3 point is smart. If she is willing to divorce under terms that are completely favorable to you, then it will prove whether she wants you or just the income you provide. At that point she would have to trust you not to walk out on her... which it sounds like you won't unless she keeps cheating. After a few years of recovery... you guys could get remarried. Link to post Share on other sites
harrybrown Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Has she given you a timeline of all her affairs? How long was she in the A before you found out? I do like your pre-nup for the future. But you can't trust her, because she told the truth on that call. Did you ask if you were her backup plan? Have you exposed the A to your family and hers? She is not showing remorse. She told the truth when she said she did not regret it. She decided to make you have an open marriage, but did not tell you about it. Has she signed for counseling? I do think it is time for some MC, but it may be too late. The pain will be there for years. (at least for me it is still there, just not as intense all the time.) We did have our 40th anniversary. We had the kids and grandkids celebrate it by going to an amusement park. I enjoyed the time with the grandkids, but not so much any more with my wife. That love was killed by her. Hope you do find a way to some happiness. But make sure she has not had another A or will in the future. Would she still be there if you had the A? Link to post Share on other sites
Bigdaddyt Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Verybrokenman, I am sorry that you ding yourself here. The legal document everyone is referring to is a post nuptial agreement . I used this with my first wife,when I discovered her affair. I tried reconciliation and I am a strong supporter of this, but for me I just could not forgive her and choose divorce. Best of luck, stay strong and focused on what is best for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye2 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) She knew I was suicidal and heart broken but did nothing to break the affair off. The pain of that is the worst. A couple of days later I felt so bad for her (go figure) that I told her she could contact him one last time to get closure. The private investigator was able to listen in on that call and it was not good. Said she still loved him, could not give him up, bitched about how unfair it was, basically showed no remorse. Said she did not regret it but regretted getting caught. Needed him now more than ever. Told him she was going to lie to me about the length of the call. And said they would talk another day. Basically could not have been worse. Read your own post. THIS: I might add that she has a very comfortable life, has never had to work and was treated like a queen. Is the only reason for THIS: But I'm very torn because since confronting her with the transcript from the call she has been a model citizen. She is doing everything right to help me heal, taking responsibility for the affair, answering all my questions, showing regret and remorse. Your wife is not the same girl you married. I’ve read that some women who have affairs feel as if they’re working with a net. By that I mean they will never be caught and if they are their devoted husband will take them back. It’s ironic when the assurance of their husband’s love gives them the security and confidence to cheat. She knows how to play you like a fiddle to get what she wants and you want to give it to her. You’re her dad who will kick her out of the house if she keeps seeing the bad boy from down the street. She did what she had to do but not until she was busted. Think of her as a spoiled teenager. Edited January 15, 2015 by Buckeye2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 a post nuptial agreement can only protect some of your assets, but in my opinion not the most important, if you get my meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 A couple of days later I felt so bad for her (go figure) that I told her she could contact him one last time to get closure. The private investigator was able to listen in on that call and it was not good. Said she still loved him, could not give him up, bitched about how unfair it was, basically showed no remorse. Said she did not regret it but regretted getting caught. Needed him now more than ever. Told him she was going to lie to me about the length of the call. And said they would talk another day. Basically could not have been worse. At this point this is no longer about her. Her thoughts, feelings and plans are clear. And so it simply becomes about you. Why on earth would you want to continue to be married to someone who doesn't want to be with you? That cares so little for you and so much for someone else? And that shows an unabated willingness to continue to cause you pain? I don't get it... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Friskyone4u Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Very Broken Not sure where you are on this but right now you need to take everything your wife says as meaningless. Not only did she cheat , lie her ass off, and show no remorse, your determination to reconcile with her at all costs initially put the idea in her head that she would get away with it. And I'm sorry, I agree with the others that what she said to OM on that phone call was what she felt. You face years not months of torment about this if you stay with her and I do not see how you believe in such a short time she would not go back to him if she could. You said it right . You are in a fog !!! If you stay with her I would have her sign an agreement that infidelity gives her nothing in a divorce and I would tell her she can expect to be taking polygraph tests as often as you need her to . Her reaction to that will tell you something right there whether you plan on doing it or not. The fact that even facing PI evidence she still did what she did makes her an unsafe partner. If you trust her at all right now you will face more DDays Link to post Share on other sites
gettingstronger Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hey there- You are hurt, broken and in shock- its all normal-give yourself sometime to absorb your new "normal"- your mind will spin at a million miles an hour for some time- this is not a great time to make big decisions-this is a time to collect yourself, take care of yourself and get yourself a bit more healthy-rest, eat, and take care of you- all of this crap will (unfortunately) still be waiting to be resolved when you are feeling stronger- Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Your wife is not the same girl you married. I’ve read that some women who have affairs feel as if they’re working with a net. By that I mean they will never be caught and if they are their devoted husband will take them back. It’s ironic when the assurance of their husband’s love gives them the security and confidence to cheat. She knows how to play you like a fiddle to get what she wants and you want to give it to her. I agree, she is not the same girl I married and that's getting more clear day by day. And I'm starting to feel like she is manipulating me but she is an amazing actress if that is the case. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Why on earth would you want to continue to be married to someone who doesn't want to be with you? That cares so little for you and so much for someone else? Mr. Lucky She is saying and doing all the right things at the moment. It's obviously very confusing to me and I want to believe her. She is still a beautiful and sexy woman regardless of what she has done and I still have love for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author VeryBrokenMan Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hey there- You are hurt, broken and in shock- its all normal-give yourself sometime to absorb your new "normal"- your mind will spin at a million miles an hour for some time- this is not a great time to make big decisions-this is a time to collect yourself, take care of yourself and get yourself a bit more healthy-rest, eat, and take care of you- all of this crap will (unfortunately) still be waiting to be resolved when you are feeling stronger- I keep waiting for that point that I feel stronger and can put some of this behind me, so far it's just more of the same pain. Link to post Share on other sites
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