When it rains it pours

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I think you have to let this one go. You're not only dissatisfied with him in bed, but now you need him to "step up" in the most basic way of treating you better, and I don't think he'll do that. If he can't be bothered to text you back after you've already told him that his non-response upset you, then he is not going to change when you ask him a second time.

 

He is definitely clueless, but some of this comes down to a lack of caring. He cares about you but not enough to text you back. I would not take him at his word now because there is a significant discrepancy between his words and his actions. When that happens you always have to go by actions. By not texting you back or making an effort to see you, he's telling you you aren't a priority, even if he likes you. I just don't think this guy is worth the effort.

 

Re: the text message that made him reconsider. I was thinking that maybe your sexually suggestive text made him think "mm, maybe we're not so compatible after all". Who knows what he's thinking.

[venusishername]

Of course you don't see him as a player or manipulative, but the reality is that he is feeding you crumbs and if you let him, he'll just string you along for a long time before things will end anyway.

Advice: Help! He Disappears, Doesn?t Call, Pops Up Every Fortnight and Gives Me a Magical Time. Is He Unavailable? Er?YEAH | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

Being online sucks but to find love you got to be tough, disciplined and patient.

 

Thanks for the link.

He is giving crumbs, just within the past week's time. Before that, he did seem totally interested.

As far as online, it's never been for me and so I think I'm going to stick to reality

 

When he called on Saturday night, he said something like 'I haven't talked to you in a few days...' like he had no opportunity to do so. Wtf?

 

I think you have to let this one go. You're not only dissatisfied with him in bed, but now you need him to "step up" in the most basic way of treating you better, and I don't think he'll do that. If he can't be bothered to text you back after you've already told him that his non-response upset you, then he is not going to change when you ask him a second time.

He is definitely clueless, but some of this comes down to a lack of caring. He cares about you but not enough to text you back. I would not take him at his word now because there is a significant discrepancy between his words and his actions. When that happens you always have to go by actions. By not texting you back or making an effort to see you, he's telling you you aren't a priority, even if he likes you. I just don't think this guy is worth the effort.

Re: the text message that made him reconsider. I was thinking that maybe your sexually suggestive text made him think "mm, maybe we're not so compatible after all". Who knows what he's thinking.

 

I know you mean well, of course, but this doesn't make any sense. I understand what you are trying to say, but something isn't adding up here. I'm seriously stumped.

I agree though, you are right about looking at the actions now when the words and actions don't add up.

 

Look, either way I am going to call him tonight and end this confusion.

What would you all suggest I even SAY? I mean, I don't want to say straight off the bat: 'I don't want to see you anymore'... or 'don't ever contact me again!'

I was thinking I'd just say "this is what I need...I've been upset that you did ___and _____. If you're not interested anymore now's the time to tell me, or if there's something else going on that you care to mention please do, I don't want to date someone who does _________, etc. What's up with you not responding, etc."

I have expressed mild concern over this behavior to him, but I don't think he took me seriously, or again, he just is so dense he doesn't get it.

Thoughts on the words to use? I'm not going to be a total bitch, although I'm really tempted to. It would sure be nice if we could have this conversation in person. Again, what a great time to have this conversation. Great.

 

One poster suggested earlier he may be trying to make a decision between me and someone else. It sounded like he didn't take the opportunity to date me back in July because he said he was kinda on and off with someone during that time. Maybe she came back... or there's someone else on the radar that he's possibly interested in. I think that's the most logical explanation here... otherwise he wouldn't even bother contacting me, or even calling. Why bother with giving crumbs?! Because he's not sure. That's my best guess.

 

I'm really looking forward to getting this off my chest. What happens from there, I can guess but I don't know for sure.... but at least I'll know I put myself out there and am not tolerating this ****.

I don't have time to waste anymore. I really don't.

Edited December 23, 2014 by venusishername

[venusishername]

I have an hour or so left before I make that phone call.

I need some help with the words, guys.

[losangelena]

I have an hour or so left before I make that phone call.

I need some help with the words, guys.

 

What do you want to say/find out, exactly?

 

I don't really know, but my therapist always advocates for assertiveness—not being demanding!—but just stating your desires and needs up front. If this guy can't match them, or work on matching them, there's your answer.

[venusishername]

What do you want to say/find out, exactly?

 

I don't really know, but my therapist always advocates for assertiveness—not being demanding!—but just stating your desires and needs up front. If this guy can't match them, or work on matching them, there's your answer.

 

Thanks.

Well, what I want to find out is: what's going on in the past week's time that you haven't followed through on seeing me, but have remained in communication and even asked me my plans twice, suggested dinner, and then never followed through??

Are you having second thoughts?

Is there something going on that you want to talk to me about?

 

 

What I WANT to say is:

I don't date people who don't follow through on their word (or suggestion)or who don't respond to me in a timely manner. Once in awhile a delayed response is forgivable but in this case, it's a pattern. And it's not ok with me.

I was upset that you were the one asking me my plans and even suggesting we get together Sunday, you told me you'd contact me. You didn't.

If you are losing interest or think you're not sure, I'd rather not talk or see each other so I can be available to others out there who ARE sure. I only date one man at a time, and I wanted to give this a fair chance because it seemed promising, but this past week has been the last straw.

You asked me to take initiative and contact you when I wanted to talk, or see each other too. I did that and you aren't receptive. So I'm not going to do that again with you until you prove you deserve my time.

It's come to a point where it's either bleep or get off the pot.

[sagamore]

Honestly, I think the call is pointless. He's going to say just enough to keep you on the line...and then he won't deliver.

All this thought wasted on a guy who can't follow through with a phone call or make sure you get off in bed?? I'd rather spend the time paying bills, or washing my hair. He's not worth it.

[venusishername]

Honestly, I think the call is pointless. He's going to say just enough to keep you on the line...and then he won't deliver.

All this thought wasted on a guy who can't follow through with a phone call or make sure you get off in bed?? I'd rather spend the time paying bills, or washing my hair. He's not worth it.

 

That's one way to look at it.

But I like the guy, we have a lot in common and get on well.

Maybe he's not worth it but I guess I need to hear it.

Why would he keep me on the line?? What's the point?

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear earlier. In short: he likes your company, but isn't interested in a committed, mature relationship. I don't know if he was interested and changed his mind, or was never that interested, or whatever. His current status is obviously lukewarm at best, and everything he's saying is just to keep you on the line for fun and games when he has nothing else to do. "I miss you" but he won't bother to see you? "How about dinner" but never calling you back? Yeah, right. If he truly cared about you he would take your concerns seriously. You wouldn't have to tell him multiple times that ignoring your texts hurts your feelings. The icing on the cake is that he asked you to contact him more---he wants you to do all the heavy lifting so he doesn't have to! Not cool.

 

I have no doubt when you call him he will say whatever it is he thinks he needs to say to placate you. "Oh, no, I'm sorry, I'll change," he'll say, but not follow through, and this will continue until you've finally had enough. Hopefully you end it now and start looking for a guy who's really into you without any games.

[venusishername]

Well we just talked for awhile.

I said everything straight out and was honest.

I think it went well and it seems that we had a lack of communication and now the lines opened. In any case, this conversation was necessary for me.

Chimp, you may be right about the fun and games, but he did say that this week just hasn't lined up. He told me it's difficult to see me during his work nights, and has wanted to, but it's almost better to make it on nights that we are free to enjoy more time together.

He told me about last night that he was under the impression that I'd call HIM once I was freed up with MY plans. I was the one who said I was going to do something with friends.

I told him when I have initiated he's declined, and I'm hesitant to do that again because he's not been receptive. It's not that he wants me to do all the heavy lifting. It does take two and maybe I have been holding back but that's the reason.

I said if you're having second thoughts or aren't sure, I would hope he'd be honest and let me know, that it wasn't fair to me. He said there's nothing going on and nothing he's unsure about and he wants to continue.

So, I said in the future, this is what needs to happen and he can take it or leave it. He said he will take it but i don't believe it until I see it and I said so.

In this case I think we needed to open up the lines of communication. Now I feel better that we did talk and he told me what he did.

When I mentioned that this week it seemed to drop off, he said that we both have been busy and with his work schedule, sometimes it just doesn't line up. But that won't always be the case.

He said he's glad I told him this.

I wouldn't say that he's keeping me on the line.

I know that he'd be honest and let me know if he wasn't sure or couldn't provide what I need out of this.

We'll see what happens now. Actions not words.

[BluEyeL]

It's just that every time I had to "talk about it", it was the end. One guy said he'll do better and he never did. And another one tried to make me see that I'm wrong for wanting him to pull his weight and he actually sped up the fade away, we had another date and that was it. It didn't end next day, but things didn't get better and they ended soon after.

 

If you have to "talk about it" that early....not good. It should be easy. He should be asking you out regularly, he shouldn't disappear for days, he should give you priority and make you feel happy.

[venusishername]

It's just that every time I had to "talk about it", it was the end. One guy said he'll do better and he never did. And another one tried to make me see that I'm wrong for wanting him to pull his weight and he actually sped up the fade away, we had another date and that was it. It didn't end next day, but things didn't get better and they ended soon after.

 

If you have to "talk about it" that early....not good. It should be easy. He should be asking you out regularly, he shouldn't disappear for days, he should give you priority and make you feel happy.

 

Ok, fair enough. I'm not betting my bank account on this.

We will see. It's been 6 weeks. I think it was time to be straightforward and cut the bull.

He does do those things that you say. As for now, things have hit a point.

I told him he can run with it.

[lil_missy]

Busy with work is the oldest line in the book

 

I like how he said "you and I have both been busy". A guy said this to me once and I felt he was completely putting words in my mouth, as I was never too busy for him despite everything else going on.

 

His trying to justify being too busy for you by saying ur too busy for him.

 

Plus I noticed u didn't mention he apologised for the way he made u feel?

 

Please don't hang ur hopes on this guy.

[BluEyeL]

Busy with work is the oldest line in the book

 

I like how he said "you and I have both been busy". A guy said this to me once and I felt he was completely putting words in my mouth, as I was never too busy for him despite everything else going on..

I had that too. One guy who was talking the talk but not walking the walk, was only messaging me once a week, calling me once a week and seeing me once every other week. He claimed he liked me, he missed me blah blah but no progress after 2 months. So I told him that I needed him to see me more than 2x a month and keep in better contact or if he can't I'll have to move on to someone who can. He promised he'll do better.

 

What happened is that he called more and when it was time to see each other, he told me "well, you are busy, I'll call you in a few days". That infuriated me!! I am busy?? Did I tell you that I was busy?? I dumped him next day. Told him that i liked him and if he's not in a good place to date right now, but in the future he can do more, he's welcome to contact me then and if I'm single I will respond.

Edited December 23, 2014 by BluEyeL

[Eighty_nine]

I still think Venus did this right thing by calling. Now it's crystal clear what she's looking for. If he again doesn't give her what you need, you have to just cut him off with no real explanation. He knows now.

[BluEyeL]

Yes, I also agree that you did the right thing by speaking up!

[venusishername]

I've had a few hours and some wine to let this soak in.

Thanks, Lissvarna and Blueeye.

Now that I think about it, I would trade a man I can actually talk to than someone who's going to screw me around the clock. I know that sounds silly, but believe me, I've had a handful of men in my life with a lot going on between the sheets and nothing between the ears and not really someone I care to open my heart to. This one I can actually talk to, and in my opinion, is worth at least giving a fair chance.

As far as the sex, the last time we were together I told him what I wanted (in bed) and he did that.. maybe he's used to being with someone before who wasn't vocal or very sexual. You never know someone's past. That takes time sometimes to become 'compatible'. It's not always rockets and fireworks straight out of the barrel every time.

 

I'm not hanging my hopes on this at all. I take what he said tonight at face value and at this point I'm just letting it be as it will. I'm being aware and cautious. I'm ok with it going either way now, because now it's crystal clear in what I want.

 

Also, he has known from early on I'm not interested in something just casual. He told me the same early on, so at this point I KNOW if we weren't on the same page he would say so, or back out ASAP. Men always do that in my experience. At least real men do :/

 

He didn't make an excuse that I've been too busy, he just said this week didn't really seem to work out with our schedules and work, etc. I didn't take it as he was making excuses. I DO think he's an honest guy and he's not trying to fool me or blame me.

 

He did express concern that I was feeling this way and didn't say anything that raised any red flag or make some big gesture of 'I'll change' or anything. He was reassuring to me if anything at all.

Like I told him, he can take this information and do with it what he likes, now he knows how I feel. I'm glad I said it, rather than brush it off and not confront it. I wasn't demanding or blaming, just stating how I feel and what I want.

 

I was concerned that maybe he dropped interest, but I'm pretty confident now that's not the case. If he was having any doubts, he would have taken this opportunity to say so, or express in some way that he wasn't sure, etc.

 

I'm the kind of person who doesn't do anything half-assed so if anything this conversation needed to take place for me more than anything. I think the conclusion of the conversation was that we need to be more communicative and I feel that now it will become much easier to do that. It's hard to open up like that when so early, but it's necessary. Maybe this needed to happen. We seemed to be in agreement that in the future a phone call was probably the best bet rather than texting, or not saying anything at all. He still brought up the fact that he would still like me to initiate a little more. I see his point. He's not asking me to do all the hard work, but I can at least make a phone call. He was simply hoping that I would reach out to him equally, even just to talk and check in. I don't see the harm in that at all.

 

We ended the convo lightly. He asked me my plans for Xmas eve. As trivial and simple as this may sound, he said my name at the end of the call. He says my name often, like in terms of endearment and little nicknames. Don't want to get sappy, but to me that's always a positive indication.

 

 

We'll see what happens now.

I know what I want, I just didn't want to dismiss him so quickly. Now he know clear as day. Like losangelena and lissvarna said, what happens next is my answer.

Basically he steps up to the plate or steps out. He's a big boy, he'll figure that out.

Edited December 23, 2014 by venusishername

[GildedLily]

What type of work does he do? As in one with a lot responsibility ( physician, lawyer etc) or is it more blue collarish?

[venusishername]

What type of work does he do? As in one with a lot responsibility ( physician, lawyer etc) or is it more blue collarish?

 

He's with the fire/rescue department.

I'm only assuming you ask this because what he said about work nights. So yes, I'd say he has a lot of responsibility and needs to be in 100% mental and physical form at work for his long shifts. He has to wake up very early and work a lot of overtime so when we've been together and spent the night, he mentioned yesterday that it's difficult on him at work, and sometimes it's better that he doesn't see me during those nights.

I guess we don't have to spend the night together...

Edited December 23, 2014 by venusishername

[venusishername]

I hope I didn't come across to him as being needy, insecure and demanding.

I don't think I did. I was pretty direct though.

 

I mentioned something like 'If you are having second thoughts or if there's any concerns you want to talk about, it's only fair that you let me know.'

Does that come across as needy or insecure?

Edited December 23, 2014 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

Hey... I just don't think this is going to end well with this guy.

 

You have markedly different communication styles. He doesn't want to or desire you at the level YOU need.

 

You really shouldn't keep trying. Loved up couples don't have to go through all this second guessing crap.

[sagamore]

Here is what I learned from all of my dating experience:

 

1. Most men aren't "clueless." They merely affect being so when they are mildly interested in having sex with someone but don't want a committed relationship. Unless he's been raised by wolves or is an alien getting his PhD in human behavior, he knows you want a committed relationship. He just isn't giving it to you.

 

2. When in doubt, "watch the feet." Words don't mean much: it's the actions that tell you where his heart is. Right now, you're getting a lot of pretty words but not much to back them up. The actions always tell the tale.

 

3. Every real relationship I had in my life started with serious, consistent pursuit by a man. Increasing frequency of dates and communication, consistent follow-up in planning, requests that I not see anyone else - you get the picture. I'm a feminist, I make my own money, etc etc - but I'm telling you that men, especially the ones you like - will not let the woman of their dreams slip through their fingers. If you have to work this hard six weeks in, it ain't happening.

 

You'll find your man, I'm sure - but this guy just isn't it.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I don't think he would tell you if he were having second thoughts; he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's communicative that way. He seems content to let you say everything and just react to it. If this ends, it's going to be because you couldn't take it anymore and he said "yeah, OK". He clearly isn't confrontational enough to do much of anything.

 

There is nothing needy, insecure or demanding about setting your expectations, but I don't know how you said it. I wouldn't have had that kind of conversation over the phone. Some things that need to be said in person.

 

I don't know why you think this is worth the stress, especially at six weeks. You guys should be texting sweet nothings and leaving love bites all over each other, not making excuses for why you aren't spending time together and angsting over ignored messages. This isn't the passion and desire, or even the emotional intimacy, that you're craving. He isn't meeting your needs on multiple levels and you keep fighting through it. I just don't understand why.

[venusishername]

Here is what I learned from all of my dating experience:

1. Most men aren't "clueless." They merely affect being so when they are mildly interested in having sex with someone but don't want a committed relationship. Unless he's been raised by wolves or is an alien getting his PhD in human behavior, he knows you want a committed relationship. He just isn't giving it to you.

2. When in doubt, "watch the feet." Words don't mean much: it's the actions that tell you where his heart is. Right now, you're getting a lot of pretty words but not much to back them up. The actions always tell the tale.

3. Every real relationship I had in my life started with serious, consistent pursuit by a man. Increasing frequency of dates and communication, consistent follow-up in planning, requests that I not see anyone else - you get the picture. I'm a feminist, I make my own money, etc etc - but I'm telling you that men, especially the ones you like - will not let the woman of their dreams slip through their fingers. If you have to work this hard six weeks in, it ain't happening.

You'll find your man, I'm sure - but this guy just isn't it.

 

This is great, thank you.

 

Your bolded part above though.. how do you mean? (in particular, 'the ones you like')?

I don't think I've been "working hard".

 

This is all yet to be seen.. I'm taking a back seat and 'watching the feet' as you say.

[venusishername]

I don't know why you think this is worth the stress, especially at six weeks. You guys should be texting sweet nothings and leaving love bites all over each other, not making excuses for why you aren't spending time together and angsting over ignored messages. This isn't the passion and desire, or even the emotional intimacy, that you're craving. He isn't meeting your needs on multiple levels and you keep fighting through it. I just don't understand why.

 

Ok, I see the truth in this. That is what I want.

 

However, the reason why I continue is because I was willing to try and be patient rather than dismiss a good guy. I have pushed men away before and regretted it later. I've also had trouble finding someone who is on the same page as me in terms of wanting something serious (and btw, I PERSONALLY don't expect or demand a full blown relationship at this early of a stage), and the things we have in common are important to me. He's also a good man with solid values and is honest and hardworking, loyal, emotionally stable, respectful, polite, all those good things I want. We seem to have a good foundation for a friendship, which is also very important. Also, as far as emotional intimacy, isn't that what talking and opening up to each other is? We've been doing that, and it takes time to feel comfortable. THAT'S why I'm not willing to walk away without communicating it first. He didn't see any issue until I brought it up. For all he knew, things were just fine, it was just a bad week to meet up.

 

I'm the one feeling stressed. That's just what I do. Also, I don't agree with 'it should be this way and that at this point'. Just because it's been that way for you (and of course, is very nice), every situation is different.

My last boyfriend, at this point of around 1.5-2 months.. was a time filled with wondering, angst, wanting to see him, feeling insecure, etc.

I got fed up and told him I didn't want to continue if he couldn't do xyz, etc. it's time to make this change, etc. and BOOM. He came through real fast.

It took 3-4 months to hit the ground, and THEN those things you say started happening.

 

I have no idea what the future holds in this. But SERIOUSLY, after last night's conversation, I think things will start accelerating or stop. Whatever happens is meant to be, I always believe that. I'll know for certain soon enough if this is something that I want or can fulfill my needs. I have no doubt.

 

And for those of you who are saying I should stop trying and drop this guy, how would you suggest I do that so soon after we just had this conversation? Wouldn't it be better to wait it out a bit longer, just to be sure??

Edited December 24, 2014 by venusishername

[Brooke02]

Venus, I don't think it would hurt to see how it goes for a bit. You cant drop him right after you talked to him I agree with you there. Give him a chance but don't wait too long, stand your ground. If he doesn't come through then you can decide.