When it rains it pours

[BluEyeL]

 

A guy I dated about a year ago was like this. He'd been previously married, and made plenty of money and was sophisticated enough to treat me to fancy meals, to invite me to box seats at a Lakers game, to get me coffee and make me breakfast in the mornings at his place. He said and did ALL the right things to make me feel like he was truly invested. But when he broke up with me a mere six weeks in (two days, in fact, after he brought up exclusivity), he contradicted himself by saying he'd never seen a future with me, and that he thought our lifestyles were incompatible (when he'd said the exact opposite weeks earlier). Anyway, all the charm and "right doing" were great, but they added up to absolutely zero in the end.

 

In contrast, my current BF has NOT had a lot of relationship experience, and it shows. He often does not say the right thing (or anything at all), at the beginning I had to reach out and plan dates, he didn't keep very good contact, etc. But the difference between he and this other fellow is that he's genuine. Awkward, yes, but genuine. I can trust what he does tell me, and see his care for me in other ways. I don't have to measure his depth of feeling by what some dating guidelines tell me I should look out for. If that were the case, I'd have left long ago. Four months in, I'm so glad I didn't. He's one of the sweetest, most gentle, most generous people I know.

 

ANYWAY. I don't mean to hijack your thread at all, I just want to speak to what you've been writing about in regards to this new man. I DO hope the best for you, I DO hope he's everything he seems and then some. I'm excited to hear an update. But I wanted to share my own experience in the hopes that you or whoever else reads this will realize that JUST BECAUSE a man seems to do all the dating things right, that doesn't always equate to him being THE ONE.

I had the same exact experience as you!! I dated a man, in summer of 2013, who did everything right, by the book! Told me he loved me, did everything like he meant it, even the way he initially approached me at an event (he said he saw my profile online and then he saw me signed up for a meetup and came there to meet me) was so smooth. Only to dump me out of the blue at 3 months of dating! No warning. No reasons either. It turns out he just wanted to have a good time that summer that's all. Everything was rehearsed n+1 times before me. I should have known!!

 

My current BF of almost 7 months was akward, only contacted me to set up dates, once a week, wasn't texting me at all for 2 months, kissed me after seven dates (I actually kissed him and I also initiated sex after 3 months lol !!!), and had no clue how to plan, he was fretting about it. He was obviously not experienced. But like yours, is the kindest, most genuine, most trustworthy, sweetest man I know! I love him to death and I feel completely and absolutely safe with him!

 

Just be detached in the beginning and wait, patience. Wait to see consistency, a pattern, over 3-6 months.

[venusishername]

I just got home from the date!

It was great! Now I'm even more intimidated by him, but in person it was awesome!

Physical chemistry was definitely there, he walked me to my car and checked in to see I made it home. He said he had a great time and while we were talking he asked if he could take me such and such when he got back from Some foreign country this weekend...

He followed up our date with checking in to see if I made home ok and commenting on how it was hard to stop kissing me!

We had a couple kisses at the end at my car.

 

I will write more tomorrow. It was a definite second date!

Edited January 14, 2015 by venusishername

[BluEyeL]

Glad you enjoyed the date. Sounds great!!

[venusishername]

Wow, I'm still reeling.

I was a bit drunk last night when I posted! Fortunately I was not drunk on my date!! We did share a bottle of wine with dinner.

He definitely exceeded my expectations.

Aside from being extremely polite and a gentleman, and taking charge of the 'date' as far as ordering and all those things good gentlemen do ...

My main concern was that there wouldn't be any physical chemistry. But the mental chemistry has been there and was there in person too.. and the physical chemistry was just as good!!

Again, it's silly and I need to get over it.. but his 'status' is intimidating to me. He's extremely cultured and well traveled, and makes a fantastic living, lives a high life traveling for pleasure all over the world and having the best of everything it seems, went to the best schools in the country, career military, etc. He's pretty dreamy. Those guys have a reputation for being playboys.. so I admit that's in the back of my mind as something to be on the 'alert' for.

Maybe it was the way I was raised and the men I've known, but I hold an extremely high regard for what he does as his life work. There is NOTHING more attractive to me in man than bravery and work ethic. He's got it going on.

 

He also does seem to be the type to really spoil the woman he is dating.. as far as wining and dining and gifts, traveling, things like that.

He was very interested in my life and about me.. complimented me but not too forward...

He tended to talk a LITTLE too much about himself but wasn't arrogant or rude.

My trouble with men I meet is that I have a strong Type A personality and come off as very direct sometimes. I'm not harsh or anything but it's imperative to me to date someone who is at that level if not more so. And he is. I need someone who has the confidence to handle it! I can't date a wishy washy or passive man.

 

Anyway, he's new(ish) to our city, and is still unfamiliar with things to do and places to go here. So at least I can be the 'sophisticated' native

He mentioned his favorite type of food and I told him my favorite place, he should try. We talked about a new movie coming out we'd both like to see.. and he said when he returns next week we should go do those things!

My birthday is coming up soon, and I told him that when we were talking about our age.. he said he was sorry that he'd be out of the country that day.. maybe it was a joke but he mentioned bringing me back a gift.

He asked to walk me to my car, we hugged, he put his face into my neck and inhaled (which in my experience is always a prelude to a kiss).. and we did kiss.. and then again!

He asked me to text him when I made it home, (I should NOT have driven in hindsight)... and before I even got there he send a text asking if I had, that he had a really great time.. and I thanked him and said talk to you soon.

He sent a p.s. that it was really hard to stop kissing me! Wow!

I don't want to wait until next week to see him again!

Edited January 14, 2015 by venusishername

[sagamore]

***P***

 

Venus, hope you don't mind - that was me putting the parking brake on for you. You have exceeded the maximum speed for the First Date Zone

 

Anyway, joking aside, I'm so glad you had a great time! But you are already falling into the pattern where you're thinking, "Wow - THIS guy is different! He is special! Maybe this is meant to be!" Right now, you still only have words - and a few nice actions - to go on. Relax, keep dating and remember, you need to watch the feet! Let him prove himself to you over time.

[venusishername]

***P***

 

Venus, hope you don't mind - that was me putting the parking brake on for you. You have exceeded the maximum speed for the First Date Zone

 

Anyway, joking aside, I'm so glad you had a great time! But you are already falling into the pattern where you're thinking, "Wow - THIS guy is different! He is special! Maybe this is meant to be!" Right now, you still only have words - and a few nice actions - to go on. Relax, keep dating and remember, you need to watch the feet! Let him prove himself to you over time.

 

 

Ok, ok..

I disagree- I have NOT exceeded the max speed for first date zone! We could've taken it way past 9:00 which was tempting...

I know, actions. I'm definitely not banking on this but so far it does seem promising and has been from the beginning!

I DO think he's different and special. This is exciting Let's see what he does next!

I think it's a good thing that he travels regularly... maybe that will pace it better in these beginning stages.

 

 

CRAP!!! I just got a message from 'the co-worker' asking me out AGAIN!!! I have been exchanging a few messages back and forth with him since last weekend but not regularly. He's asked me out to dinner this week. WHAT??!

Edited January 14, 2015 by venusishername

[losangelena]

I'd say go on to dinner with him. It might help keep things with your other guy in perspective.

 

I agree with sagamore. I went back and re-read your initial posts about A this morning, and while he stood out to you for different reasons, your tone was certainly similar in that it was quite gushing, like you'd met the most amazing guy ever. And while yes, I agree, there are quite a few wonderful male specimens out there, I'm beginning to wonder if you TRULY think these guys are so great, or if you're responding more to the attention they give you. That's not a knock, it's very easy to do, I'm merely pointing out that's how it seems.

 

Wait until these guys PROVE how amazing they are.

[venusishername]

I'd say go on to dinner with him. It might help keep things with your other guy in perspective.

 

I agree with sagamore. I went back and re-read your initial posts about A this morning, and while he stood out to you for different reasons, your tone was certainly similar in that it was quite gushing, like you'd met the most amazing guy ever. And while yes, I agree, there are quite a few wonderful male specimens out there, I'm beginning to wonder if you TRULY think these guys are so great, or if you're responding more to the attention they give you. That's not a knock, it's very easy to do, I'm merely pointing out that's how it seems.

 

Wait until these guys PROVE how amazing they are.

 

I know ^^^^ and that takes time!

I told the co-worker (please let's now refer to him as R)... to text me and we can chat about it. He won't give up so easily. Although my initial impression is that he's looking for a fun time only. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess I will find out by going out with him and asking.

I was chatting with my mom and she disapproves of this whole 'multidating' concept. She's also from an older generation and has been married since she was 18 years old. So I don't take a whole lot of stock in her opinion, but let's just say she expressed extreme disapproval that I would even CONSIDER going out with two men in the same week!

To me, until I get in bed with someone and/or I KNOW I want to pursue a relationship it, I'm available to be taken out to dinner or a drink by another man who happens to ask me. I'm a hot commodity!

 

Yes, you are right. I did feel that way about A. It may be a little bit of the attention I receive that makes me gush; but I do truly do believe these men are great guys and are worthy of dating! Until they prove otherwise, of course! A was a sweetie and a good man (even though he dropped off the face of the earth); he just wasn't at the level of maturity I needed. Obviously I didn't know that until later... I only discovered that with time.

If I only liked the attention, I'd be gushing about any old loser!

Edited January 14, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

I know ^^^^ and that takes time!

I told the co-worker (please let's now refer to him as R)... to text me and we can chat about it. He won't give up so easily. Although my initial impression is that he's looking for a fun time only. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess I will find out by going out with him and asking.

I was chatting with my mom and she disapproves of this whole 'multidating' concept. She's also from an older generation and has been married since she was 18 years old. So I don't take a whole lot of stock in her opinion, but let's just say she expressed extreme disapproval that I would even CONSIDER going out with two men in the same week!

To me, until I get in bed with someone and/or I KNOW I want to pursue a relationship it, I'm available to be taken out to dinner or a drink by another man who happens to ask me. I'm a hot commodity!

 

Yes, you are right. I did feel that way about A. It may be a little bit of the attention I receive that makes me gush; but I do truly do believe these men are great guys and are worthy of dating! Until they prove otherwise, of course! A was a sweetie and a good man (even though he dropped off the face of the earth); he just wasn't at the level of maturity I needed. Obviously I didn't know that until later... I only discovered that with time.

If I only liked the attention, I'd be gushing about any old loser!

 

You gotta multidate. It's the only way not to get over invested too soon (for people like us, who have a tendency to do that). Actually, on my 2nd date with my now-boyfriend I knew I liked him but wasn't sold and went on TWO dates in one night! I wouldn't necessarily recommend it lol, but it kept me open minded and from being too into my bf too fast.

 

Never heard from A again, right?

 

I think the new guy sounds cool, just take it easy, be skeptical til he proves himself. And no sex before a MINIMUM of 3 dates and I'd suggest 5 or more...

[BluEyeL]

Three dates before sex?? Try 10!! Can you hold off for 10??? And i agree with the speed. You're gonna crash again.

 

And I totally do not trust R. Nobody will convince me that men don't talk and I suspect he knows his coworker f**** you on the first date and he'd like to try that move too.

[Eighty_nine]

Three dates before sex?? Try 10!! Can you hold off for 10??? And i agree with the speed. You're gonna crash again.

 

Well, that's what I believe also. No less than a month or 8-10 dates for sex for me, ever. But I know Venus believes in going for it when it feels right, so I'm trying to encourage at least wait *a little* while. I think 5 should really be the absolute minimum.

[venusishername]

Never heard from A again, right?

 

Right. Could kinda care less.

 

I think the new guy sounds cool, just take it easy, be skeptical til he proves himself. And no sex before a MINIMUM of 3 dates and I'd suggest 5 or more...

I agree and that's totally reasonable. I don't think we'll be getting anywhere near the bedroom anytime soon, though! I admit, I thought about it last night!

 

Three dates before sex?? Try 10!! Can you hold off for 10??? And i agree with the speed. You're gonna crash again.

 

Of course I can hold out. I like him so I'm going to wait as long as possible. I don't pay attention to numbers, you guys! With this guy he seems interested in getting to know me more than sex so that's not a concern here. When I see him again, we will be keeping it public. I don't see any opportunity for sex as it stands right now! I'm not going to his house or going away for the weekend with him (anytime in the near future).

And hang on. How is this 'speed' too fast?! I don't understand how what just happened is 'too fast'. ??

 

And I totally do not trust R. Nobody will convince me that men don't talk and I suspect he knows his coworker f**** you on the first date and he'd like to try that move too.

 

BlueEye! He did NOT **** me on the first date!!

I agreed to go out with him this weekend. Who cares if he TRIES to get me in bed??? I have free will! I'm not a piece of putty in his hands. If he wants to take me out to dinner, he can do so. What's the harm!?

 

Well, that's what I believe also. No less than a month or 8-10 dates for sex for me, ever. But I know Venus believes in going for it when it feels right, so I'm trying to encourage at least wait *a little* while. I think 5 should really be the absolute minimum.

I feel around a month's time is appropriate and has been comfortable for me too. HOWEVER, everyone is different on this subject so I don't believe in 'numbers' or keeping track. In any case, we're not there yet.

 

On another note, the 'new' guy, hmm... let's call him...Maverick.

He texted me last night (the day after our date) and asked me how I'm doing, what am I up to, telling me about his work. We chatted for a bit and I mentioned being just a little hung over in the morning (from the wine we were drinking) and he said he was too but it was "totally worth it!" (being with me the night before). He's into it!

I know I can expect to be hearing from him on the regular now (I did even before we met in person!) It's nice just to hear once a day or so...

Maybe I can start initiating contacting him once in awhile? I don't need to talk every day. He seems to like to.

You know, with him I have YET to ever initiate. The only time I had to exert any effort was to let him know I was still interested a few weeks ago. He's never dropped the ball all along.

 

I don't see the need to be skeptical. That's a negative connotation anyway. So far he hasn't let me down. I agree it's good to remain 'detached' and to 'watch the feet' but why be skeptical? How about just smart?!

What do you guys think? Should I start reaching out just to say hello occasionally or just still sit back and let him do all the work?

Edited January 15, 2015 by venusishername

[losangelena]

Maybe I can start initiating contacting him once in awhile? I don't need to talk every day. He seems to like to.

 

What do you guys think? Should I start reaching out just to say hello occasionally or just still sit back and let him do all the work?

 

I know I just went off about how women need to put up their fair share of effort. HOWEVER, in this situation, no, not right now. Don't initiate. Initiating this early is a way of advancing things along to places they may not naturally go. A man, even if he's "not that into you" will go along for a while if you're the one making it happen (I've done this, and it's a big disappointment).

 

Again, we've been trying to tell you over and over to let this guy PROVE his intentions. THIS is the time for him to do it, not for you to jump in and force things in a certain direction. You may like the attention, but let's see what's behind the attention.

 

Once you're intimate, yes, initiate away. Before then, let him come to you.

[BluEyeL]

Ok, not on the first date, but not long after. I forgot but it was fast. So yeah, go out with him if you feel strong. Be suspicious of his intentions.

[BluEyeL]

I agree you should not initiate now. Later, yes, to keep a balance. Now ,nope. And it's good he's been in contact but I'm slightly concerned that he didn't ask you out for a second date already. I hope he will soon.

[venusishername]

I agree you should not initiate now. Later, yes, to keep a balance. Now ,nope. And it's good he's been in contact but I'm slightly concerned that he didn't ask you out for a second date already. I hope he will soon.

 

Well, he already DID ask me out for a second date on our first date! I don't have the specific day and time... but I know he'll be gone this coming work week. So.. my guess that it wouldn't be until next weekend anyway. That's what he was alluding to.

In the meantime, he will be in near daily contact with me I'm sure

Not at all, nothing?!

Edited January 15, 2015 by venusishername

[losangelena]

Not at all, nothing?!

 

I would say no.

 

Why do you want to? Because you're genuinely curious about what he's up to, or because a reply from him will "prove something" about his interest level?

 

I ask because I am the number-one offender of pinging a guy just to make sure he's still there.

[venusishername]

I would say no.

 

Why do you want to? Because you're genuinely curious about what he's up to, or because a reply from him will "prove something" about his interest level?

 

I ask because I am the number-one offender of pinging a guy just to make sure he's still there.

 

No, honestly I want to because I am genuinely curious and I feel it's considerate to do since he's been the one initiating all along, every time.

Maybe he'd like a little bit from me in return...

Him contacting me has held my interest... I'd like to hold his.

I already know he's interested... there's no need to find 'proof' of that.

[losangelena]

I still think it's a bit too soon—after one date—but if you WANT to do it, then do it. You know yourself, your situation, and him infinitely better than any of us ever will. All I or anyone else can tell you is based on what we've learned from the past. In MY experience, any time I initiated contact with a guy in the first couple of dates phase, we never made it past those first couple of dates. It wasn't BECAUSE of my texting, necessarily, but that's how they've all panned out.

 

In your situation, you recently went on at length about how great it was to NOT have to do any of the initiating and chasing, and now here you are, contemplating whether or not you should initiate with this man. My guess (because I'm also a woman and am susceptible to woman-ish neuroses) is that if texting him was based solely out of genuine interest in him and his day, you wouldn't be asking about it here. You would have done it and not given it a second thought.

 

But if you want to reach out to him, truly want to, do so! Don't let a bunch of cranky internet forum members stop you, even if they're advising otherwise. Reaching out to him is a risk, yes, just as not reaching out to him is. But that's dating—we go in barely able to see beyond our noses, and others' intentions become clear as we go further in, but not before, never before.

 

Text. Don't text. Just see what happens.

[Eighty_nine]

I'd wait. I feel like when you begin making contact, it's a good sign to him that he's been doing everything right. Like, he "earned" you reaching out first. Let him do so, keep yourself a little mysterious for just another date or two.

[venusishername]

Thank you for your input!

I'm thinking I may need to start another thread... is there a limit on the length?? I'd like to see how this progresses over the next few weeks at least!

But... as far as initiating....Maybe I won't worry about it for now...because He always beats me to it!! Even today! Just to say hello, how was such and such last night, (he listens) seems like he enjoys just chatting with me. I think it's nice! So I'm going to hang back.

He's leaving the country in a few days and I don't expect to be able to easily reach him anyway. On the other hand, maybe that won't matter and he will still find a way.

Like I said I agreed to see R this weekend. I'm not worried about falling prey to his seduction or anything. My mind is kind of elsewhere now. I don't want to assume he's a hound dog just trying to get me in bed. He may be a really nice person.

Anyway, I'm really glad I met this new guy. I'm soooo glad I reached out to him after Xmas. It was cool that he was still interested in me after that time had passed. I'm confused as to how he is still single. It seems like he could easily pull a lot of women. Anyway, he seems to be honed in on me for sure so I'm just going to enjoy it.

 

I think it's awesome (and I'm so relieved) that we hit it off so well in person.

[Leigh 87]

Don't text.

 

The women initiating should come later on.

 

Sorry but that's the way that it is.

 

Men like to chase. Even if they are really into you, they tend to prefer to do the pursuing at least initially. This isn't a game since men that are into you also like the woman to respond with a keen interest. ...

 

Let him text; it's you're job to respond eagerly so he knows you're into him.

[venusishername]

Men like to chase. Even if they are really into you, they tend to prefer to do the pursuing at least initially. This isn't a game since men that are into you also like the woman to respond with a keen interest. ...

Let him text; it's you're job to respond eagerly so he knows you're into him.

 

Ok, I get it! Will do. He seems to enjoy the pursuit. I guess all men do. Makes it easy then!

 

Since our date, he's been contacting me more often than before! I like talking with him. It's just small talk, texting.. which is not really my thing to be honest... I'm kinda old school and prefer phone conversations if we're just going to be shooting the breeze. Like 'how was your day?' 'did you catch that gorgeous sunset?' 'what are you up to?" I don't know.

I was telling my gf about it who is attached to her phone obsessively and texts like nobody's business... she doesn't seem to understand what the problem is. I think it's ok to an extent, but I guess just isn't really my style.

 

R texted last night to ask if I was free tonight and I said I was.

I got a long message from him this morning explaining his work conflict and that he has to be available to leave at a moment's notice for the next week.. but that he'd be freed up later this evening and would like to see me. He invited me to his place if I'd like for wine and a movie. I know what that means. I'm very attracted to him so it's tempting. I could go.. I don't have to sleep with him of course. Either way, I said let's make it another time then, and that the next few days were better for me.

If he wants me as a casual 'hanging out' only, then that's too bad. I'm not there. If he actually wants to take me out for dinner (like he said before), he can when he's available.

Do you think I should let him know where I'm standing, just so neither one of us wastes our time? If he's ONLY looking for something fun, I'd like to know that so I can stop talking with him and agreeing to go out.

Just as a background: when I met him over the summer, he was with a girl then. He told me last time that she was his girlfriend and they dated for about 6 months or so. My point is, he seems that he's interested in having something more than just hooking up. At least that's what I've gathered so far.

Edited January 16, 2015 by venusishername

[DivorcedDad123]

"No, honestly I want to because I am genuinely curious and I feel it's considerate to do since he's been the one initiating all along, every time.

Maybe he'd like a little bit from me in return...

Him contacting me has held my interest... I'd like to hold his.

I already know he's interested... there's no need to find 'proof' of that"

 

^^^THIS^^^

 

From a guy,if a woman isn't contacting me back and I do all of the initiating,it tells me she's not THAT interested. These "aloof" games just don't do it for me. If you want to contact him,contact him. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. If you like him,contact him or someone else will. I can almost guarantee that much.

[venusishername]

R texted last night to ask if I was free tonight and I said I was.

I got a long message from him this morning explaining his work conflict and that he has to be available to leave at a moment's notice for the next week.. but that he'd be freed up later this evening and would like to see me. He invited me to his place if I'd like for wine and a movie. I know what that means. I'm very attracted to him so it's tempting. I could go.. I don't have to sleep with him of course. Either way, I said let's make it another time then, and that the next few days were better for me.

If he wants me as a casual 'hanging out' only, then that's too bad. I'm not there. If he actually wants to take me out for dinner (like he said before), he can when he's available.

Do you think I should let him know where I'm standing, just so neither one of us wastes our time? If he's ONLY looking for something fun, I'd like to know that so I can stop talking with him and agreeing to go out.

Just as a background: when I met him over the summer, he was with a girl then. He told me last time that she was his girlfriend and they dated for about 6 months or so. My point is, he seems that he's interested in having something more than just hooking up. At least that's what I've gathered so far.

 

I didn't have to wait for any outside advice because I decided to just be straightforward and tell him this afternoon that I'm looking for something more substantial and that I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. I said I should've asked him that before and that I hoped he could understand. I'll get my answer, whether it be silence or him telling me the same.

With the real top contender in my life right now (who told me from the start that he was looking for something more substantial) he gets my first priority.

This is the only way I can separate the frogs from the princes.

On the other hand, you still never know because even A told me from the start that he was looking for something 'more' (than just casual). However I think his interpretation of what that means is quite different from mine :/

 

 

From a guy,if a woman isn't contacting me back and I do all of the initiating,it tells me she's not THAT interested. These "aloof" games just don't do it for me. If you want to contact him,contact him. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. If you like him,contact him or someone else will. I can almost guarantee that much.

 

I appreciate that! Thank you. I think it would be fine at this point. He always seems to beat me to it, though! Maybe now that my 'date' is off for tonight, I'll have the chance to reach out to him first. Or not.. if I feel like it.

But... you are right. This man is such a catch, I'd be an idiot to let some other woman divert his attention away from me!

Edited January 16, 2015 by venusishername