When it rains it pours

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

It sounds like you've made a lot of progress already, especially with regards to your self-awareness. Just stay mindful, accept yourself for who you are, and recognize the things you'd like to do differently without blaming yourself. There's no need to give yourself a hard time---you're the only person who you can force to treat you kindly.

 

I have two pieces of advice for you in the future: take it slowly in the beginning, and don't ever invest more than you're giving in return. My current boyfriend and I spent the first six weeks seeing each other only once a week because we both wanted to be sure we were doing the right thing. We emailed and texted frequently but kept other interaction to a minimum. It was tough! As much as I liked him, I also recognized the importance of spending time apart to think clearly. By the time he called and said he was "so smitten [he] can't stand it anymore" we were sure it was what we both wanted.

 

As for the second piece of advice, some people think that sounds like playing games but it really isn't. It's just reciprocity; don't give more than you're getting in return. If a guy immediately hits you up and asks for a second date, say yes. If he waits until 8 PM on Friday, tell him you'll pencil him in for Sunday brunch. When you keep your interactions even you look neither eager nor indifferent. It makes it easier for things to proceed naturally.

[lil_missy]

OP, I have no doubt you have lots of options as you say, but you don't act like you value these options.

 

You don't value these options because they are nothing more than mild interest or initial interest, they are not deeper connections and don't provide the intimacy that you crave only temporary validation. It's kind of a vicious cycle, wearing down your self esteem. I'm not getting down on you, I've been there too. Validation from guys that barely know you will only keep you happy for a short while, but only someone that knows you deeply and loves you for who you are can make you warm inside.

 

Which is why I think you should stop casual dating, it will NOT make you feel better about your current situation, instead will run your self esteem into the ground.

 

When you do date a guy, please do not chase him.

 

I don't care what you say about what a COOL girl you are, from what you wrote, you are a guy chaser. You put yourself forward when a guy is pulling back. Calling out their issues as if they don't know what they are doing, as you did with A.

 

Guys know what they are doing, if they want a relationship to work out with you they know what to do.

 

So just let that notion go that you need to guide him through.

 

I mentioned before that I don't think you being "available" to M was the issue there, what I mean is there is a big difference between being available and being TOO available/chasing a man down. and you are doing the latter. I think most of the other posters were getting at that as well.

[venusishername]

OP, I have no doubt you have lots of options as you say, but you don't act like you value these options.

You don't value these options because they are nothing more than mild interest or initial interest, they are not deeper connections and don't provide the intimacy that you crave only temporary validation.

Which is why I think you should stop casual dating, it will NOT make you feel better about your current situation, instead will run your self esteem into the ground.

Well you just simply stated the obvious. The whole point here is to stop casual dating. That's what I want. I don't understand your post. I thought that was blatantly obvious that I'm not interested in casual dating.

 

 

When you do date a guy, please do not chase him. I don't care what you say about what a COOL girl you are, from what you wrote, you are a guy chaser. You put yourself forward when a guy is pulling back. Calling out their issues as if they don't know what they are doing, as you did with A.

Guys know what they are doing, if they want a relationship to work out with you they know what to do.

So just let that notion go that you need to guide him through.

I see that I won't ever need to do that again with any man. I liked him so I wanted to give it a shot by vocalizing my needs and wants. I'm glad I did. I wasn't chasing him.

In any case, I will never need to do that again because I have options. For example with A, he wouldn't even LOOK at me or touch me in a sexual or affectionate way unless we were naked in bed. He was never affectionate in public or even put his arm around me. Where ALL the men I've been involved with have (and will) look at me and touch me and take initiative sexually/with affection, his lack of that was something I won't settle for in the future. I don't need to! Because I can get it elsewhere and that's just a fundamental, basic component of intimacy that I NEED (among other things)!

 

I mentioned before that I don't think you being "available" to M was the issue there, what I mean is there is a big difference between being available and being TOO available/chasing a man down. and you are doing the latter. I think most of the other posters were getting at that as well.

I don't understand what you are talking about. I wasn't available, but I was too available? How did I chase M??? All I did was say I was available to meet him for a drink. ?

 

On the other hand, I wanted to bring up the R thing because it seems like it's so easy compared to the other guys I've been dating lately. It's refreshing and uncomplicated. I've been staying at an arm's length and not getting too excited too soon. I'd be open to meeting others, but for the time being, I'd like to get to know him more.

I'm uncertain as to whether or not he's a good fit... I'm figuring it out. I have this block or something about him... I think because my friends said he seemed arrogant, and also because my hang up on his buddy that I was seeing over the summer, and also because he's just not my regular 'type', physically. I'm not sure why I'm so iffy about it. Maybe I need to let it go and enjoy.

 

There's no games, it's very straightforward. I like that and I think that's how it should be.

He's been considerate and consistent. I've been holding back and I need to let my guard down... it's just been hard because of my recent disappointments.

Here's what I mean: We went out last Monday, had a great time. He contacted me throughout the week and this week too. It hasn't been too often. I reached out on Sunday to ask how's his weekend. He texted me yesterday at the beginning of the work day, and I thought was just engaging me in conversation because he didn't come right out and ask me on a date, but asked me what my plans were for the day. I had plans with a friend.... but in the back of my mind did want to see him after. I didn't mention it at the time. I thought he would ask me out straightforwardly, like with a concrete time and place. I didn't hear from him. I had some drinks with dinner, and texted him on the way home because it was still really early. I more or less said I thought I'd hear back from you earlier. I did leave a "......" at the end of my text when I said I had plans with a gf. I guess I should've said I'd be done early, if I wanted to see him.

He responded and said he thought I said I was busy with my friend, so he made other plans. I said I should've mentioned it would be an early thing. He said he was trying to ask me out, and if I wanted to see him I can always ask him too. Well, hey, isn't this a concept.

My point is, I got so caught up in 'playing the game' and 'aloof' that I missed out on a date with this guy when he asked me well in advance. He made a little joke about now I'm waiting for him to ask me out? Now he's asking me clearly. Would you like to go out with me, Venus?'

So, we've been talking today, and I mean, I'd like to see him...maybe today's not the best time for me, but soon...

Now I know I don't need to sit around wondering, or being aloof... if I'd like to see him, I can ask. Not being "A MAN CHASER" or anything !

Edited January 28, 2015 by venusishername

[lil_missy]

Well if you don't want to do casual dating then why r u entertaining getting together with R again? I thought we have established that his no good for you, He is just looking for sex and I think you will feel used once his done with you

 

You are chasing a man down because you pick up the ball when he drops it. You should let it drop until he picks it up himself.

[venusishername]

Well if you don't want to do casual dating then why r u entertaining getting together with R again? I thought we have established that his no good for you, He is just looking for sex and I think you will feel used once his done with you

I don't know for sure that is all he's interested in. HAVE we already established that? And you know what? You never know. Guys I was CONVINCED were interested in more than sex turned out to drop off the face of the planet and never heard from them again. Maybe I'm wrong about R. I won't know unless I give it a chance, right?

He's not contacting me late night. He's contacting me at decent hours of the day and planning ahead and asking me out on dates.

Also, how would I feel used if I was a willing participant? Guess what? I also would like sex! I'm not completely passive here!! My last sexual relationship with A was so unfulfilling and unsatisfying, I might just need to wipe the slate clean!!! What's so wrong with that?

I don't want to rule it out because I am assuming or jumping to conclusions that he only wants sex. I am so ****ing confused as to some of the advice I'm getting here. You all tell me to casually date multiple men. Then you tell me not to casually date.

 

You are chasing a man down because you pick up the ball when he drops it. You should let it drop until he picks it up himself.

 

 

I get what you are saying here. I did do that with A, but I haven't done it since! I won't do it again....

Edited January 29, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

 

You are chasing a man down because you pick up the ball when he drops it. You should let it drop until he picks it up himself.

I get what you are saying here. I did do that with A, but I haven't done it since! I won't do it again....

 

Oh Venus. What do you call the below?

 

He texted me yesterday at the beginning of the work day, and I thought was just engaging me in conversation because he didn't come right out and ask me on a date, but asked me what my plans were for the day. I had plans with a friend.... but in the back of my mind did want to see him after. I didn't mention it at the time. I thought he would ask me out straightforwardly, like with a concrete time and place. I didn't hear from him. I had some drinks with dinner, and texted him on the way home because it was still really early. I more or less said I thought I'd hear back from you earlier. I did leave a "......" at the end of my text when I said I had plans with a gf. I guess I should've said I'd be done early, if I wanted to see him.

This is chasing. This is being too available. This is pursuing.

 

You'll write back asking for specifics. Here they are: R didn't ask you out. The "...." is the first slip up, because it indicates that you are waiting to hear from him and would like him to ask you out. He did not take your bait. The second more blatant instance is texting him that night, prodding him that you thought you'd hear back. This is immature and will be perceived as pressuring him, and it will also be clear to him that you are desperate for some attention from him. The third instance is that you were clearly very open to him asking you out that same evening.

 

Venus, you know better than this.

 

Then you're going to tell me that it doesn't matter, because you've previously said that you're just having fun with R. But you're clearly starting your usual pattern of getting really attached really early on, as evidenced by your behavior. If you were just having fun, then what are you doing in chase mode? And you just emphatically told another poster that you're not interested in casual dating. So - what is it that you are doing with R, then?

 

Where exactly is the disconnect? Is it alcohol consumption? Is it the influence of the friend you were with? Is it going too long without male attention/validation? Is it doing a half-hearted effort at self-improvement, finding it too pedantic or difficult, and then going right back to what you were doing?

 

It's like talking to two different people sometimes. Sometimes you get the Venus who is interested in breaking her pattern and is open to the feedback she's soliciting. This is only when she's down from a failure with a guy, though. But when you get the Venus who has an active prospect, she's on here contradicting herself, being defensive and bullheaded and doing what she wants because she "doesn't like rules" and the guy is interested and attraction and blah blah blahblahblahblah.

 

You're headed down the exact same road you have expressed interest in getting off of. I don't know what to say about the fact that you don't even see it and are, again, on here arguing with posters who are taking time out of their day to try to help you.

[venusishername]

Ok.

I get it that the text I sent last night was not the smartest move and why.

I'm not trying to argue.

So when we talked this morning, he said he was asking me out the day before.

He asked me again today (in advance, like before noon) and I said I'd have to let him know after work. Which is now. I can definitely see how that text I sent last night was chasing. It doesn't look good on my part.

But, he did ask me a respectable time in advance today. I can say yes or no. I'm undecided at this exact moment. Thought if give it a little time.

It's tempting.

I have been introspective. I DO see this as casual at the moment but I don't expect an instant relationship. Maybe it will grow, but I have to be open to that.

I might learn very quickly he's just out for a conquest. I don't know that. So I can't label it as just casual.

I understand what you're saying about the 'attaching' I did last night. Lapse of judgment due to alcohol.

I am trying to break the habit. It's not too easy.

I thought it wouldn't hurt to accept his offer for tonight though, since he did ask!

If I go, will you tell me I made another slip??

I'm just torn about what to do, now that I realized my same pattern yesterday coming through.

Edited January 29, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

I'm not trying to argue.

That's nice, but had I not called you out on it prior to your reply, your reply would be defensive and argumentative. You'd be saying that you hadn't done anything wrong, and that he's clearly interested (that's becoming my least favorite word) because he asked you out again today.

 

If I go, will you tell me I made another slip??

If I were you, I'd turn him down and take a raincheck, put the ball back in his court and see what he does with it.

 

Turning him down may reset the power balance that you offset last night. But there is a part of the power balance that cannot be reset once it is tipped. You cannot have these early slip ups with a guy you really like, because there is no going back on a guy's perception of you once it is altered.

 

he said he was asking me out the day before

How is asking you your plans for that night and then not responding when you tell him asking you out? That's bad form or laziness.

 

But, he did ask me a respectable time in advance today.

I guess we have different definitions of respectable time. Two mornings asking you out the same night, one where he didn't even really ask you out. Why isn't he inquiring after your Friday or Saturday night? Why aren't your standards higher?

 

For these reasons, and in light of your behavior last night, I would not go. I'd warmly respond asking for a raincheck, and put the ball back in his court. Then, he'd learn that he needs to ask you out in clear language, and that he probably needs to give you notice longer than 12 hours if he wants to see you.

 

If I were you, I would spend tonight thinking about how I have said that my impulse control when it comes to my dynamic with men is inhibited when I drink, and what that means for me. What happens if you meet a guy you really like and have a couple glasses of wine and make poor choices?

 

I'd also spend time clarifying what I want with R. You seem back to your habit of letting the guy define the relationship and going along for the ride. Before you said it was just fun for you. Now you seem to have a different opinion. It seems he's charmed you into forgetting the "first date at my place with wine and Netflix" gigantic red flag.

Edited January 29, 2015 by idoltree

[venusishername]

Well, I decided that I'm embarrassed about the way I was too available yesterday and my slip ups with R that I'd tell him I can't see him tonight. Thought it would be best for me to take a step back and not jump at the next chance to see him. I'd like to. But I think it would be in my best interest to hang back a little.

I offered him an alternative time when I was free this weekend. And... He just asked if I was also available tomorrow, which I am.

Well, the guy is persistent.

[idoltree]

Well, I decided that I'm embarrassed about the way I was too available yesterday and my slip ups with R that I'd tell him I can't see him tonight. Thought it would be best for me to take a step back and not jump at the next chance to see him. I'd like to. But I think it would be in my best interest to hang back a little.

I offered him an alternative time when I was free this weekend. And... He just asked if I was also available tomorrow, which I am.

 

Venus, you should have just canceled and not told him your availability to see what he did. His next actions, or lack thereof, would give you valuable information about how he views you. And, no, if he liked you, being unavailable to meet him on the same day he asks would not deter him from asking you out again.

 

But, since you did it, are you not noticing that he did not take you up on your offer of the weekend? Has he ever asked you out on the prime date nights? In general, a man who is serious about a woman will try to book her for a Friday or Saturday night, because he'd know that would be her expectation of him, and he'd know that if he didn't, he'd run the risk that she might go on a date with another guy.

 

Well, the guy is persistent.

I'm not impressed with him. He does the bare minimum, and that seems to be enough for you. Higher standards from the start, Venus. You were off to a good start when you turned down the "wine and netflix" date, and made him aware you knew what that meant. Note that he was still willing to do the work to see you in spite of you having high standards. In fact, your high standards may have motivated him to make the effort to still see you.

 

I'd still turn down the weeknight date from him. Something like "sorry, I don't think I'll feel like going out after being at work all day." Then drop it. Don't give him other options of when he can see you. SEE WHAT HE DOES.

 

And, no, that will not discourage him if he likes you. He knows you're interested, especially after your behavior last night. You already offered him an alternate time for when you were available this weekend. Put the ball back in his court and let it sit there until he gets the motivation to pick it back up. There's a chance he may not, but if you don't want another instance of an over-invested Venus and a guy who disappoints her, then you need to do this.

[losangelena]

I offered him an alternative time when I was free this weekend. And... He just asked if I was also available tomorrow, which I am.

Well, the guy is persistent.

 

Most likely because he wants to get into your pants.

 

I agree with idoltree. This guy first asked you to HIS PLACE on date one. That is a HUGE red flag. Flag numero uno, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Why the hell can't he wait until this weekend? What's the rush? He reminds me of a guy I went out with a couple of times late last year (2013). We met up the first time for a casual lunch; it was a Thursday afternoon. I thought he was nice enough, but I wasn't so attracted to him. Later that afternoon he's asking if I could meet up the NEXT DAY for a movie at his house. PFFFFFT Yeah f*cking right, I was in no mood for getting physical with him. I said no, I'd rather meet in public again, and we agree to get drinks at a bar that Sunday evening. Well, at the end of the date, he wanted to go back to my place, and again I said no, and once I dropped him off at his car, that was the last I ever saw of him, to no one's great surprise.

 

I'm not saying that R is JUST wanting to hook up with you—but I think you need to make up your mind now wether or not that's something YOU want. If yes, then see him tomorrow if you want. If not, then keep him at arm's length until you have a better idea where he stands. Most relationship-minded men will not mind waiting several days to see you. His pushing for tomorrow night is not, to my mind, a sign of "interest," as you like to call it. It's a sign that he wants to get laid, and sooner rather than later.

 

But again, forget what he wants for a minute, and get crystal clear as to what YOU want.

[lil_missy]

Most likely because he wants to get into your pants.

 

I agree with idoltree. This guy first asked you to HIS PLACE on date one. That is a HUGE red flag. Flag numero uno, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Why the hell can't he wait until this weekend? What's the rush? He reminds me of a guy I went out with a couple of times late last year (2013). We met up the first time for a casual lunch; it was a Thursday afternoon. I thought he was nice enough, but I wasn't so attracted to him. Later that afternoon he's asking if I could meet up the NEXT DAY for a movie at his house. PFFFFFT Yeah f*cking right, I was in no mood for getting physical with him. I said no, I'd rather meet in public again, and we agree to get drinks at a bar that Sunday evening. Well, at the end of the date, he wanted to go back to my place, and again I said no, and once I dropped him off at his car, that was the last I ever saw of him, to no one's great surprise.

 

I'm not saying that R is JUST wanting to hook up with you—but I think you need to make up your mind now wether or not that's something YOU want. If yes, then see him tomorrow if you want. If not, then keep him at arm's length until you have a better idea where he stands. Most relationship-minded men will not mind waiting several days to see you. His pushing for tomorrow night is not, to my mind, a sign of "interest," as you like to call it. It's a sign that he wants to get laid, and sooner rather than later.

 

But again, forget what he wants for a minute, and get crystal clear as to what YOU want.

 

Absolutely agree with this.

 

So many red flags with R, first wine n movie at his house. Now he is simply wanting to see you on his terms and ignoring you when it's not convenient to him. I agree his persistence is actually offensive and again everything is on his terms. You have no power in this relationship.

 

If you go out with him you will be participating in casual dating, which you claim to not want to do. But you also love sex, ok I get that a girl can enjoy casual sex too. But I guarantee you will feel bad about why he doesn't love you after you had amazing sex.

 

If you want to continue this cycle of feeling bad and doubting yourself then go ahead with R.

[venusishername]

But, since you did it, are you not noticing that he did not take you up on your offer of the weekend? Has he ever asked you out on the prime date nights? In general, a man who is serious about a woman will try to book her for a Friday or Saturday night, because he'd know that would be her expectation of him, and he'd know that if he didn't, he'd run the risk that she might go on a date with another guy.

Yes, and yes. Actually, he agreed to this Saturday so long as he finished a project by then. He asked if I was free today (last night) as well. He has asked me out several times now for weekend dates. I've rejected all of them but one of those invitations, come to think of it.

Also, that seems rude to not offer an alternative time. I have to throw him a little bone! I can't just say, "I'm unavailable. Period." I don't see the harm in presenting an alternative time. That's your opinion, though.

 

You were off to a good start when you turned down the "wine and netflix" date, and made him aware you knew what that meant. Note that he was still willing to do the work to see you in spite of you having high standards. In fact, your high standards may have motivated him to make the effort to still see you.

Well, clearly then he's not holding all the power here, as little missy says.. You guys make him out to be the big bad wolf when I'm a willing participant in this :/ It's not like he's playing me like a puppet and I'm totally powerless. That's ridiculous.

And, no, that will not discourage him if he likes you. He knows you're interested, especially after your behavior last night. You already offered him an alternate time for when you were available this weekend. Put the ball back in his court and let it sit there until he gets the motivation to pick it back up. There's a chance he may not, but if you don't want another instance of an over-invested Venus and a guy who disappoints her, then you need to do this.

 

Absolutely. I will NOT pick up the ball! I see what I did wrong the other day. It's not the end of the world, but I'm not going to run to him. He asked if I was free tonight. Haven't heard today yet. Won't ask. He knows I am available Saturday. Will see what he does.

 

Most likely because he wants to get into your pants. I agree with idoltree. This guy first asked you to HIS PLACE on date one. That is a HUGE red flag. Flag numero uno, as far as I'm concerned.

Sure. Look, guys. I'm also interested in sex, and he's offering it on a silver platter. I don't hold it against him that he wants to screw me because, well... I feel the same.

He didn't get the wine and movies on the SECOND date btw.

Why the hell can't he wait until this weekend? What's the rush?

Who knows? And really, who cares?

I'm not saying that R is JUST wanting to hook up with you—but I think you need to make up your mind now wether or not that's something YOU want. If yes, then see him tomorrow if you want. If not, then keep him at arm's length until you have a better idea where he stands. Most relationship-minded men will not mind waiting several days to see you. His pushing for tomorrow night is not, to my mind, a sign of "interest," as you like to call it. It's a sign that he wants to get laid, and sooner rather than later. But again, forget what he wants for a minute, and get crystal clear as to what YOU want.

I don't know that's all he wants. I slept on it (alone ) last night and I decided that the ONLY way I can know where he stands and if I even WOULD WANT THIS to be anything beyond superficial is to ACTUALLY SPEND TIME TOGETHER. I do want something more than just sex. He knows that. So basically, what I'm doing here is giving it time to see if it's worth investing...

Yes, I want to sleep with him. That may be clouding a little judgment and probably fired off that text the other night to him.

You have no power in this relationship.

Oh really?

If you go out with him you will be participating in casual dating, which you claim to not want to do. But you also love sex, ok I get that a girl can enjoy casual sex too. But I guarantee you will feel bad about why he doesn't love you after you had amazing sex.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I just don't agree with you. Like I said, I'd like to give it a chance to see if it could be anything beyond casual... if it's something I would want with him, if it's clear he only wants sex, etc.. I have to go out with him to LEARN that. I can't make assumptions or jump to conclusions. I think all things become clear in time anyway.

And GIRL, if I felt bad about why a man didn't LOVE ME after amazing sex, I'd be naïve and disappointed most of the time. I REALLY don't think that's how it works in the real world! Love and sex have nothing to do with each other. It's nice when they are in harmony, but it's certainly not always the case. I'm familiar.

If you want to continue this cycle of feeling bad and doubting yourself then go ahead with R.

I have the power here to choose whether I want to feel a certain way. It doesn't depend on someone else's actions or lack of actions.

Edited January 29, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

 

 

Sure. Look, guys. I'm also interested in sex, and he's offering it on a silver platter. I don't hold it against him that he wants to screw me because, well... I feel the same.

 

For your own sake, man, I really wish you'd change this POV.

Guess what Venus, I like sex too. We all do. You're not alone. that doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea to sleep with someone before several weeks or more of consistent dating if your end game is to secure a real relationship. this is a matter of fact, NOT opinion. You'll say "your opinion" is so and so but, guess what? It's not working. And it won't work. If you continue the attitude of "he wanted the sex, i wanted the sex, so why not?!" You'll end up in the SAME POSITION. I know what you'll say... that you're cool with just being casual with R. Fine, if you say so, but it also seems that something you'd like for your life is to settled down and get married.

 

I realize you haven't slept with R yet and that's great but you're also very open to the idea of it happening soon. That's clear based on your posts. And I bet he's picked up on that too, which is why he's being persistent... he sees a good chance of getting laid. And he absolutely has NOT shown you consistency yet..

 

Is it "fair" that to gain a mans respect we have to wait? No, not really. It's not the same for men- our respect for them isn't dependent on when they "give it up". it's not fair but it is a REALITY.

 

To this point- I can think of men who truly didn't go into dating relationships for sex only, but their feelings toward a woman changed when she gave it up early on. I've had male friends that have said straight up to me that they know they lose interest when the sex is too easily obtained, so when they like a girl, they'll AVOID being alone with her to avoid this issue.

 

My best friend just dated a guy who I think genuinely liked her, but she slept with him after 3 dates, and I could tell this guy lost interest. They talked about it, and even HE didn't seem to understand what happened-- but I'm fairly certain it was the quick sex. Take sex OFF the table until a guy has spent weeks or more taking you out, planning dates in advance, not canceling or flaking (baring a very legit reason), and respecting your wish to wait to get physical. I promise your dating life will be much more straight forward if you do this.

Edited January 29, 2015 by lissvarna

[venusishername]

For your own sake, man, I really wish you'd change this POV.

Guess what Venus, I like sex too. We all do. You're not alone. that doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea to sleep with someone before several weeks or more of consistent dating if your end game is to secure a real relationship. this is a matter of fact, NOT opinion. You'll say "your opinion" is so and so but, guess what? It's not working. And it won't work. If you continue the attitude of "he wanted the sex, i wanted the sex, so why not?!" You'll end up in the SAME POSITION. I know what you'll say... that you're cool with just being casual with R. Fine, if you say so, but it also seems that something you'd like for your life is to settled down and get married.

 

I realize you haven't slept with R yet and that's great but you're also very open to the idea of it happening soon. That's clear based on your posts. And I bet he's picked up on that too, which is why he's being persistent... he sees a good chance of getting laid. And he absolutely has NOT shown you consistency yet..

 

Is it "fair" that to gain a mans respect we have to wait? No, not really. It's not the same for men- our respect for them isn't dependent on when they "give it up". it's not fair but it is a REALITY.

 

To this point- I can think of men who truly didn't go into dating relationships for sex only, but their feelings toward a woman changed when she gave it up early on. I've had male friends that have said straight up to me that they know they lose interest when the sex is too easily obtained, so when they like a girl, they'll AVOID being alone with her to avoid this issue.

 

My best friend just dated a guy who I think genuinely liked her, but she slept with him after 3 dates, and I could tell this guy lost interest. They talked about it, and even HE didn't seem to understand what happened-- but I'm fairly certain it was the quick sex. Take sex OFF the table until a guy has spent weeks or more taking you out, planning dates in advance, not canceling or flaking (baring a very legit reason), and respecting your wish to wait to get physical. I promise your dating life will be much more straight forward if you do this.

 

I definitely see your point. And YES! ALL I WANT IS TO SETTLE DOWN AND GET MARRIED!!!

I just want to say though that I've known people (including myself) who have had long term relationships that led to marriage after sleeping together right off the bat. My best friend had a one night stand and now they've been married for years and are the best couple I know.

AND>>> I've had so many failures that I feel like NO MATTER WHAT I DO OR DON'T DO, SEX OR NO SEX, WHATEVER... it doesn't work out!!!

I know what I'm doing isn't working. Duh. But it has nothing to do with sex!

 

I just want to say that although I get what you are saying, I think sex is used far too much as a bargaining chip with women. It's like the more emphasis we put on sex (by refraining), the more importance we give it as a tool in the 'game'. I read all the time on LS, "How long should I make him wait?" THERE ARE NO RULES TO THIS!!!!

Just because YOU personally believe several weeks is acceptable, to other people that's way too soon! I'm not discounting what you say, I appreciate your advice but I just wanted to voice my opinion.

 

I feel like with M, for example, no matter if I agreed to meet him that night on short notice or not, (when he flaked on me), he STILL would've dropped off the face of the planet.

With A, no matter if I slept with him 'too soon' or not, it still would've ended because we weren't compatible in terms of what we wanted out of the relationship. Ya know?

My last boyfriend (SO LONG AGO NOW!) was a 4 year relationship. We slept together within three dates and were deep in love within months.

 

That's why I'm kind of like 'screw it' with R. We want the same thing, like your example you gave in your first paragraph.

I'm not attached to him or over the moon, it's 'safe' and I can get out if I realize it's something I don't want to continue.

I feel so cynical lately it might do me some good to hit the 'reset' button in order to refocus. I haven't agreed to meet him tonight. I haven't heard today. I won't reach out in any case.

 

 

Just a side note: I like to observe my ONE single girlfriend's dating life. She's not in a good place with dating right now, but I've learned a lot about what NOT to do. I think she's WAYYYY too nice to guys and strings them along if she's not interested and/or engages with guys who are treating her disrespectfully. She has painfully low self esteem but is the smartest and most driven woman I know.

Anyway, she's either got guys begging her to be their boyfriend or guys who refuse to see her on her terms, yet they'll string her along literally for months driving her crazy. But she won't cut any of them off (whereas I'm colder and less 'nice')

She won't necessarily sleep with a guy straight out of the barrel, but she will spend the night with them, doing other things, maybe just sleeping. I don't ask all the details. She invited this one guy over for a home cooked meal (and she never EVER cooks) for their second date. I told her that wasn't very smart, but knock yourself out! Not sure why I thought of that. But she gets dates on major holidays and I don't. Makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong to be alone on Xmas Eve, NYE, my birthday, and now Valentines Day.. and she gets the guys for those holidays. Stumped.

Edited January 29, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

Ah, our Venus has a supply of male "interest" and the eagerness is back and the defenses against advice are back up!

 

(I'm saying this in a teasing way, I hope you know. I do think you're funny, though sometimes extremely frustrating!)

 

Also, that seems rude to not offer an alternative time. I have to throw him a little bone! I can't just say, "I'm unavailable. Period." I don't see the harm in presenting an alternative time. That's your opinion, though.

 

It is not rude.

 

No matter how much you would like it to be otherwise, early dating is a dance. It is not a friendship; you are being assessed and judged for your every move, and if you like the guy, it's best not to make any missteps. I think you'll agree that it works best when men are allowed to pursue, and women are receptive to that pursuit.

 

Venus, you struggle with dropping the ball in a way to show that you know your worth. You don't think the guy will pick it back up if that happens, so you step in and pick it up. You tell yourself it's reciprocity, and that if you're not "nice" then the guy will get discouraged and you won't hear from him. In reality, picking up the ball is discouraging the guy and making you less likely to hear from him.

 

How is it rude to say "Oh, I'm not into going out tomorrow night. I'm going to be busy at work and I just want to relax when I get home." especially after your recent over-availability/chasing incident? How is that rude?

 

By being willing to put in effort and do work, you are missing out on very pertinent information about the guy's intentions. If you would stop stepping in, you could simply watch to see what he does and see if he's serious about you.

 

The jury's still out on R, but I do think he gives signs of being in it for the short-term rewards.

 

You guys make him out to be the big bad wolf when I'm a willing participant in this :/ It's not like he's playing me like a puppet and I'm totally powerless. That's ridiculous.

Oh, here we go.

 

Venus "Imma do what I want 'cuz I know best!" is back. Sigh.

 

No, he doesn't hold all the power. But what we know about you based on pages and pages of evidence is that you give away all your power, go overboard, get feelings really early, get emotionally bonded through sex, and end up not knowing which way is up after you get disappointed by these guys.

 

So, Venus. Again, is what you're doing working for you? Do you think that "Imma do what I want 'cuz I know best!" is the best strategy? I'm going to start calling you Sybil with all the flip flops you do.

 

The next time you have a few hours to yourself, go back to page one and read through this entire thread of yours. Look for your patterns. Look for when you get hyper and defensive. Look for when you disregard advice that later turns out to be accurate. It's going to be painful for you, but I don't know what else to do to stop you from going into fantasyland where you don't need anyone's help, a pattern you repeat over and over and over and over.

 

I will NOT pick up the ball!

Yes, I guarantee that you will, because you are closing your mind to what is involved in picking up the ball. Now your excuse du jour is that it would be "rude" to not to.

 

I'm also interested in sex, and he's offering it on a silver platter.

You are going to get attached. That's just your physiology. You get those bonding hormones when you sleep with someone and that causes you to get emotionally attached to whomever you sleep with. R has seemed pretty shady, and I think we'd all prefer to avoid the coming clusterf*ck of what happens after you sleep with him.

 

I don't know that's all he wants. I slept on it (alone ) last night and I decided that the ONLY way I can know where he stands

And here's the usual emphasis on what the guy wants and how he sees Venus, rather than what Venus wants and how she sees the guy.

 

and if I even WOULD WANT THIS to be anything beyond superficial is to ACTUALLY SPEND TIME TOGETHER.

False. You could see how consistent he is in communicating with you, whether he puts in effort, if he gives cues of wanting a relationship by treating you in a classy manner, or if he gives cues of wanting an easy lay by treating you in a thoughtless manner.

 

This is your excuse to get the high you seek by spending time with a guy and soaking up that "interest" drug.

 

I do want something more than just sex. He knows that. So basically, what I'm doing here is giving it time to see if it's worth investing...

Yes, I want to sleep with him. That may be clouding a little judgment and probably fired off that text the other night to him.

Venus, you're clearly going to sleep with him the next time you see him. This is your usual pattern. He will subsequently become lazy about you, stop pursuing you and letting you do the work, or he will disappear.

 

It's too early to sleep with him. You will sabotage any chance of this being long term, if you wanted to be open to that.

 

I just don't agree with you. Like I said, I'd like to give it a chance to see if it could be anything beyond casual... if it's something I would want with him, if it's clear he only wants sex, etc.. I have to go out with him to LEARN that. I can't make assumptions or jump to conclusions. I think all things become clear in time anyway.

In Venus-ese, this is "Guys, just let me do what I want. I'm making all sorts of justification about why I need to see him soon, and I'm going to make it seem like I am being logical and clearheaded about this, but we all know I'm going to jump in bed with him and ride that hormonal high that I'm looking for a fix of."

 

if I felt bad about why a man didn't LOVE ME after amazing sex, I'd be naïve and disappointed most of the time. I REALLY don't think that's how it works in the real world! Love and sex have nothing to do with each other. It's nice when they are in harmony, but it's certainly not always the case. I'm familiar.

Sex makes you attached to the guy.

Sex makes you attached to the guy.

Sex makes you attached to the guy.

 

Yadda yadda yadda, girl power, blah blah blah. Some/most women get attached when they have sex, and you're one of them.

 

I have the power here to choose whether I want to feel a certain way. It doesn't depend on someone else's actions or lack of actions.

Venus, your replies are hyper, stubborn, and overly optimistic and trusting. You're headed for a crash, it's as plain as day.

 

It's frustrating that you want to change your habits, but the more I communicate with you, it's pretty clear that your only interest is in guaranteeing the outcomes you want. You can't see how you prevent yourself from getting the outcomes that you want, we can. When the time comes to change your habits, you get defensive and stubborn. We try to tell you, but as soon as the "interest" drug is a'flowin', Bullheaded Venus makes her appearance and all bets are off.

 

So... someone pop some popcorn for us while we wait for the crash?

 

Just a side note: I like to observe my ONE single girlfriend's dating life. She's not in a good place with dating right now, but I've learned a lot about what NOT to do. I think she's WAYYYY too nice to guys and strings them along if she's not interested and/or engages with guys who are treating her disrespectfully. She has painfully low self esteem but is the smartest and most driven woman I know.

Anyway, she's either got guys begging her to be their boyfriend or guys who refuse to see her on her terms, yet they'll string her along literally for months driving her crazy. But she won't cut any of them off (whereas I'm colder and less 'nice')

She won't necessarily sleep with a guy straight out of the barrel, but she will spend the night with them, doing other things, maybe just sleeping. I don't ask all the details. She invited this one guy over for a home cooked meal (and she never EVER cooks) for their second date. I told her that wasn't very smart, but knock yourself out! Not sure why I thought of that. But she gets dates on major holidays and I don't. Makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong to be alone on Xmas Eve, NYE, my birthday, and now Valentines Day.. and she gets the guys for those holidays. Stumped.

Venus, you are as insecure and sabotagey as this friend of yours, you just have a different style. As you observe her and are able to see where her missteps and weaknesses are via your emotional detachment, we are able to see where your missteps and weaknesses are via our emotional detachment.

 

Imagine how frustrating it would be for your friend to continually seek out your advice and then tell you why she knows better than you, then watch her go on to achieve the exact same outcomes that she claims to want to change. Because that is what you do.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

There is a lot of amazing advice in this thread, but I don't agree with all of it, particularly the points about

 

• If you have sex too soon the guy will drop you
  
• Sex -> attachment -> desperation, eventual insanity
  

 

I tend to have sex pretty early on and it has never ended with a man losing interest or breaking up with me soon afterwards. The "sex = attachment" thing is also unfair; while it may be true for many women, it's not true of me and I don't actually think it's true of Venus either. (Do you mind my talking about you in the third person? I'm sorry, augh, but it's a bit clearer this way.)

 

I think Venus sees sex as a way to progress the relationship. Even if it doesn't make her more attached, she's definitely hoping that the sex leaves him wanting more. When it inevitably doesn't she's left feeling confused. It's not because she had sex too early, it's because she was never on the same page as the guy. She hasn't judged any of these guys accurately, not even once. Even after her "serious discussions" with A she wasn't any closer to understanding him. She doesn't seem capable of recognizing these men aren't serious about her; she picks a few pieces of their character and her imagination fills in the rest.

 

There's nothing here that being less available or more assertive would have solved. All of these guys are poor relationship material. It's just that Venus doesn't seem to see it.

[venusishername]

Today's been a ****ty day, I'm in a terrible mood and want to go home and eat ice cream.

Can you PLEASE tell me how to multiquote like you do below without copying and pasting each time? Thanks!

 

 

I think you'll agree that it works best when men are allowed to pursue, and women are receptive to that pursuit.

Sure! I agree with this. That's what I felt M was doing. Look what happened. It doesn't guarantee success, which is why I struggle with trusting it.

Venus, you struggle with dropping the ball in a way to show that you know your worth. You don't think the guy will pick it back up if that happens, so you step in and pick it up. You tell yourself it's reciprocity, and that if you're not "nice" then the guy will get discouraged and you won't hear from him. In reality, picking up the ball is discouraging the guy and making you less likely to hear from him.

That is something I really need to think about. I'm a little confused as to dropping the ball and what that means in each unique situation though. It's complicated. I feel a little lost right now. It's almost easier to see in hindsight. I don't want to keep doing it though.

 

How is it rude to say "Oh, I'm not into going out tomorrow night. I'm going to be busy at work and I just want to relax when I get home." especially after your recent over-availability/chasing incident? How is that rude?

I don't think that's rude at all! Never said it was rude. I meant last night when I responded to him and said I can't see him after all, I thought it would be rude not to offer an alternative by at least offering my next free day! He then asked about Thursday (today). I didn't agree to anything.

Now that its mid-afternoon and he hasn't suggested a time and date...

NO, I don't think it would be rude to ask for a rain check when I hear from him later. This is where I'm really struggling (breaking habit??) He asked me yesterday if I was free tonight. He didn't make definitive plans BUT indicated he'd like to see me, as he's been doing all along (a lot of guys don't make concrete and final plans far in advance I'm noticing). Now, in the back of my mind I expect to hear from him. This JUST happened with Maverick. So, this is almost predictable. He's going to contact me this evening and ask what my plans are.

What I did with M was say I'm available to meet you after I finish up with this and that, or whatever. In M's case, he flaked on me and it never happened. In R's case, he won't flake. But what you are telling me is that I should NOT agree to meet him tonight. This is what I understand from all your previous posts. The point is to not be so available and to 'not pick up the ball' as you say. Am I getting this or am I missing something? I'm sorry, I feel a bit dense trying to wrap my head around this.

So, if I say yes and meet him when it's convenient for me tonight, I picked up the ball?

 

 

you are closing your mind to what is involved in picking up the ball. Now your excuse du jour is that it would be "rude" to not to.

Ok. I want to understand.

 

False. You could see how consistent he is in communicating with you, whether he puts in effort, if he gives cues of wanting a relationship by treating you in a classy manner, or if he gives cues of wanting an easy lay by treating you in a thoughtless manner.

Sure. Normally this is a given and I agree with you. BUT I still don't trust this. This has happened before to me.. and he dropped off the face of the planet never to hear from him (them) again. Like I said, the underlying theme is I don't trust 'the rules' right now and figure '**** it'.

 

This is your excuse to get the high you seek by spending time with a guy and soaking up that "interest" drug.

Venus, you're clearly going to sleep with him the next time you see him. This is your usual pattern. He will subsequently become lazy about you, stop pursuing you and letting you do the work, or he will disappear.

In Venus-ese, this is "Guys, just let me do what I want. I'm making all sorts of justification about why I need to see him soon, and I'm going to make it seem like I am being logical and clearheaded about this, but we all know I'm going to jump in bed with him and ride that hormonal high that I'm looking for a fix of."

Alright, you got me. Guilty. Dammit I'm only human. I'm feeling ****ing so lonely and discouraged.

 

Yadda yadda yadda, girl power, blah blah blah. Some/most women get attached when they have sex, and you're one of them.

 

 

Yes, I get attached with a select few, but certainly not all. I don't think that each and every guy I talk to/date is going to turn my world upside down when it ends. I have some idea going into it what the stakes are and how much I can handle, generally. In this situation, I'm having trouble seeing anything beyond the prospect of hitting the sheets with this guy.

 

You can't see how you prevent yourself from getting the outcomes that you want, we can. When the time comes to change your habits, you get defensive and stubborn. We try to tell you, but as soon as the "interest" drug is a'flowin', Bullheaded Venus makes her appearance and all bets are off.

I feel like there's a huge struggle in my own head and heart. That's why I'm getting so defensive, also I don't agree with everyone's opinions. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes... it's hard to break bad habits.

[venusishername]

I think Venus sees sex as a way to progress the relationship. Even if it doesn't make her more attached, she's definitely hoping that the sex leaves him wanting more. When it inevitably doesn't she's left feeling confused. It's not because she had sex too early, it's because she was never on the same page as the guy. She hasn't judged any of these guys accurately, not even once. Even after her "serious discussions" with A she wasn't any closer to understanding him. She doesn't seem capable of recognizing these men aren't serious about her; she picks a few pieces of their character and her imagination fills in the rest.

There's nothing here that being less available or more assertive would have solved. All of these guys are poor relationship material. It's just that Venus doesn't seem to see it.

 

 

Thank you!!!

You understand.

Not that I'm completely faultless and don't have things to work on, but I think this is a huge chunk of my issue.

Edited January 29, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

Thank you!!!

You understand.

Not that I'm completely faultless and don't have things to work on, but I think this is a huge chunk of my issue.

 

But what that poster mentioned were some issues you need to work on.

 

Chimp, I strongly disagree with your take on sex quickly. Not in 100% of situations will interest wane, but in the experinece I know myself and many many people to have had, it does.

But the time when it's right will vary, of course theres no hard and fast rule. But Venus is using sex as a tool to further relationship as you said- and for that reason, she definitely should take her time with sex.

A bit off topic, I also like waiting because I feel like the sex is always better when I do.

[idoltree]

There is a lot of amazing advice in this thread, but I don't agree with all of it, particularly the points about

 

1. If you have sex too soon the guy will drop you
   
2. Sex -> attachment -> desperation, eventual insanity
   

 

I tend to have sex pretty early on and it has never ended with a man losing interest or breaking up with me soon afterwards. The "sex = attachment" thing is also unfair; while it may be true for many women, it's not true of me and I don't actually think it's true of Venus either. (Do you mind my talking about you in the third person? I'm sorry, augh, but it's a bit clearer this way.)

 

I think Venus sees sex as a way to progress the relationship. Even if it doesn't make her more attached, she's definitely hoping that the sex leaves him wanting more. When it inevitably doesn't she's left feeling confused. It's not because she had sex too early, it's because she was never on the same page as the guy. She hasn't judged any of these guys accurately, not even once. Even after her "serious discussions" with A she wasn't any closer to understanding him. She doesn't seem capable of recognizing these men aren't serious about her; she picks a few pieces of their character and her imagination fills in the rest.

 

There's nothing here that being less available or more assertive would have solved. All of these guys are poor relationship material. It's just that Venus doesn't seem to see it.

 

I think this is great advice.

 

I agree that none of these guys are who Venus is ultimately looking for, and that is definitely part of the problem. I think I'm looking at this interaction with R as her opportunity to develop different habits, so if she does meet a good guy, she doesn't fall into her old habits, which do not set things off on the best path for success (as indicated by commitment.)

 

She's meeting most of these guys online, and that's part of the problem, I think. It would be better to meet guys through friends or social clubs; she'd have a better shot at finding one of better character that way.

 

I don't agree that she just has to find the right guy and things will fall into place. I think that people of matching security levels choose to get into relationships with one another. To me, Venus is pretty far on the anxious/chasing spectrum, and has put most of these guys up on a pedestal and her dating style is one of insecurity, though she is making improvements. I think she attracts avoidant men as a result, and if she can up her attachment security, she can start meeting men who are less avoidant, which means there's a shot in getting what she wants, which is a long term commitment. I'm not sure she's ever going to get to the point of being a fully secure dater, and - right now at least - she's not attracted to secure men, which means she's always going to go for the avoidant types who are notoriously easy to scare off, with early sex being the most frequent trigger that sends them running.

 

And I think the more effort she pours into these guys, the more down she gets. I wish she'd take a bit of a break to restrategize and recenter herself, but that's been shot down.

 

Maybe it doesn't happen with sex, but there is something about validation through completion going on with her. Her tone from post to post changes depending on what's happening with the guys in her life. It's like she makes them the hurricanes and lets herself be buffeted about based on what they're doing. I'd like to see her be calm and centered no matter what the guy(s) in her life are doing; neither getting hyper because she's getting an interest fix, nor getting down because a disappointing guy has disappointed her.

 

With all of this going on, I can't see her meeting a good guy and it all falling into place without her becoming more focused on her wants and needs and developing a higher opinion of herself. If she practiced not chasing, pursuing and being overly available with R, then she'd have the actions and skills down when she met someone worth her time. And all of these improvements would allow her to get a better read on men, as you mention, too.

 

(And, sorry, Venus, for have an awkward conversation about you with another poster.)

[venusishername]

But what that poster mentioned were some issues you need to work on.

But the time when it's right will vary, of course theres no hard and fast rule. But Venus is using sex as a tool to further relationship as you said- and for that reason, she definitely should take her time with sex.

 

Yes, clearly there are some issues I need to work on. I don't take all the blame here. Like the book 'Attached' talks about, I tend to gravitate towards the same 'type' that's not healthy for me, like I see you've posted too Idoltree!

 

On that note, something came up today that I've never mentioned in this thread and I think has a lot to do with my issues as far as trusting and trusting myself.

I dated someone for the better part of ages 23-27. It ended badly. We were in love but it was always on the rocks and not a healthy relationship.

I left him for various reasons.. because I grew up. He went off the deep end once I rejected his last ditch effort to stay together. He ended up stalking me. I'm not talking about 'stalking' in a loose term; I'm talking about criminally stalking. This went on for years, coupled with severe emotional and psychological abuse. I had to testify against him several times in court. I spent COUNTLESS nights with the police, filing report after report, after various incidents of stalking, once a break in while I was asleep, vandalism to my property, unwanted contact to myself, my family members, friends, and once a potential new love interest.

Once he found out and showed up where I had moved for the third time in 3 years, there was a point that I feared that I'd be raped, assaulted, or worse.

I felt terrible shame, self doubt and completely closed myself off to intimacy. I sought attention and validation by sex and shallow relationships because it was the only thing that felt SAFE. I still wanted the false intimacy of a relationship but only could keep it at an arm's length. So I sought out men who were on the same page. I wasn't ready for anything more until this past year.

Since then, it's still been hard for me to trust. It's hard for me to trust MYSELF. Because the last time I let go and trusted myself (by being with my ex, loving him) I was completely betrayed and traumatized.

I got a phone call today that he is back in jail and will be for the remainder of this year at least. He's been in and out for almost 4 years now.. at first it started with the stalking, now he's just breaking the law. I haven't thought about it in a LONG time. It's been over a year now that there's been any flare-ups. Hearing today brought it all back fresh.

He was one of those insecure, emotionally unavailable men. I just seemed to hit all his weak spots and he came at me 10000xs greater (after the breakup) than he ever did while we were actually together.

 

Anyway, I think it's important that I take this into consideration also, now that I'm reminded.

I'm a good person and I want a real relationship again. I'm scared, I'm still healing. It might just take some more time. I've come so far compared to where I was before. I think that when I meet someone who's interested in me, and vice versa... I want SO BADLY to trust them. Maybe to feel more comfortable trusting myself?

I want to remain OPEN to something good. I don't want to run away from it, or force it either.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Edited January 30, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

I'm sorry you went through that, Venus. I'm happy for you that that the phone call helped you connect some dots, though I understand how intrusive and jarring it must feel.

 

I do think this is a big piece in the puzzle of what's going on. It sounds like you've got some trauma in your past.

 

Maybe you're not a chaser by nature, but you are only perceiving/attracted to/open to emotionally unavailable guys as a way to not be alone but also keep yourself "safe"? And their unavailability/distancing causes you to pick up the slack and that's why you're coming off like a chaser, but it's not really who you really are?

 

I wish I could give you a hug. You're a great person and I want you to find someone who makes you happy and whom you can depend on.

[venusishername]

Maybe you're not a chaser by nature, but you are only perceiving/attracted to/open to emotionally unavailable guys as a way to not be alone but also keep yourself "safe"? And their unavailability/distancing causes you to pick up the slack and that's why you're coming off like a chaser, but it's not really who you really are?

 

I wish I could give you a hug. You're a great person and I want you to find someone who makes you happy and whom you can depend on.

 

 

Thank you so much. I could use a hug today. It's been awhile since someone comforted me with a hug.

Yes, there is an element of wanting to feel 'safe', and I would feel safer if I wasn't alone. I know I can do it, but I would feel so much safer if I was with someone I could trust and depend on.

I think I misunderstood what you meant by feeling 'safe'- but yes, what you said is also probably true.

Edited January 30, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

Thank you so much. I could use a hug today. It's been awhile since someone comforted me with a hug.

 

e-hug!

 

Yes, there is an element of wanting to feel 'safe', and I would feel safer if I wasn't alone. I know I can do it, but I would feel so much safer if I was with someone I could trust and depend on.

I think I misunderstood what you meant by feeling 'safe'- but yes, what you said is also probably true.

I think you understood my meaning regarding one facet of safety.

 

Safety was meant to represent keeping yourself safe. You might seek out someone low risk, in a way, because you sense that they can't get too close, because you fear closeness. In your experience, closeness is frightening and risky.

 

You might be seeking out guys incapable of giving you true closeness, dependability, and true safety because those things also frighten you. So it's like you avoid anyone giving signals of capability of intimacy, or you don't feel instant attraction to them.

 

You might be an avoider in attacher clothing! You choose fellow avoiders and pick up the chasing role because someone's got to do it (nature loves a vacuum).

 

All of this may be your subconscious traumatized self's way to sabotage yourself from getting what you consciously want. Does that make sense?

 

The way to move forward is to work on that inner conflict.

Edited January 30, 2015 by idoltree