When it rains it pours

[venusishername]

I think I'm looking at this interaction with R as her opportunity to develop different habits, so if she does meet a good guy, she doesn't fall into her old habits, which do not set things off on the best path for success (as indicated by commitment.)

Me too. I think he would be a good place for me to start with practicing better habits. I feel like for whatever reason I have a level head about him (compared to others in my past), so it's probably a good thing and won't be so difficult.

 

She's meeting most of these guys online, and that's part of the problem, I think. It would be better to meet guys through friends or social clubs; she'd have a better shot at finding one of better character that way.

Not true, actually. Just coincidence that M was online, R I had met before and found me online 6 months later. My friends don't have single friends anymore!!! I wish they did!

I don't agree that she just has to find the right guy and things will fall into place. I think that people of matching security levels choose to get into relationships with one another.

I think so too. This is straight from the book! My mom is always saying, "you just haven't met the right guy yet"- well, I probably HAVE and ran away from it or pushed it away. I DEFINITELY need to be in a healthier place and healed before I can find my man that's going to turn out to be more than a fling.

If she practiced not chasing, pursuing and being overly available with R, then she'd have the actions and skills down when she met someone worth her time. And all of these improvements would allow her to get a better read on men, as you mention, too.

I think I'm going to do that.

I did see him last night. Just as I predicted, he contacted me right after work last night, right on cue. I had a ****ty day and was down. I decided it would be nice to see him. He asked what are we doing tonight? Would I like to walk over to his place and decide from there where we'd like to go for dinner? (we live within walking distance). I went, knowing where it could lead... and I was ok with that. I was owning it. I wanted to spend time with him. I didn't care about being "overly available" and open to sex on the third date. I just wanted to be myself and stop worrying so much.

 

 

It turned out to be really nice, actually. We enjoy each others' company and have fun. The more I'm getting to know him, I can tell he's not playing games... he's just being real. He's very old fashioned and conservative, from the South, so he's very sweet and polite, I can tell by the way he talks how much family is important to him, he wants kids, he values a relationship. Not to say that he wants that with ME, but just something that I noted. I think he's a nice guy.

Took me out to a nice dinner again, he was affectionate and attentive, we had a good time.

And yes, I broke the 'commandment' of "no sex until the 10th date, 5th date, marriage" whatever. It was the best sex I've ever had.

I needed it. Seriously, after my totally unsatisfying sex with A around the holidays, it was nice to be reminded that THIS is the stuff I'm talking about. I will never settle for sub par sex again, even if I think the guy is 'nice' and want to give him a chance.

I enjoyed my time with him very much. I didn't CARE if sex might scare him off. I didn't CARE if it would 'give away the power'. I didn't CARE if it meant I MIGHT start feeling attached and get disappointed. I think my FEAR has been holding me back in many ways.

I KNOW that you all will scold me and warn me that now I'm going to go into a total tailspin and freak out.

I think I have it under control, though! We had a nice brief little time this morning before work, he's kind and is respectful.

I think he's worth a chance. But I know I don't need or want to chase, I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket, I'm not going to be a booty call, he seems like he's interested in actually dating me. So... we'll see.

I think this is a good lesson for me to practice better habits and break my old patterns. I also realized that there's been a lot of FEAR that's been getting in the way of my relationships, like I mentioned about the ex trauma.... and it's time to let that go. I think I'll start now.

I promise you all: I will NOT chase, I will NOT freak out, and won't get overly invested. With R, I feel like I'm the one keeping it at an arm's length and he's the one trying to get closer. Maybe that's why I was iffy about him. If he'd like to date me and pursue this, that's ok with me. I'll take it one day at a time.

 

 

You might be seeking out guys incapable of giving you true closeness, dependability, and true safety because those things also frighten you. So it's like you avoid anyone giving signals of capability of intimacy, or you don't feel instant attraction to them.

YES!!!!!! Kind of like R, like one or two guys I dated last year.. I didn't feel that unhealthy kind of 'spark'. It was like a different type of draw and I couldn't put my finger on it. Maybe this is a good chance for me to recognize the different types I am attracting and am attracted to.

 

You might be an avoider in attacher clothing! You choose fellow avoiders and pick up the chasing role because someone's got to do it (nature loves a vacuum).

All of this may be your subconscious traumatized self's way to sabotage yourself from getting what you consciously want. Does that make sense?

The way to move forward is to work on that inner conflict.

I think so!! Even R said last time that he's having a hard time reading me, wonders if I'm interested. I feel like I've been pretty aloof. Several men have said that about me, actually. Like they can't figure me out and wonder where they stand.

I think I know what I need to do. This was the re-set I needed to move forward. I was thinking it would be fine to text him today while at work and just thank him for a nice dinner and night. I don't care about coming across as needy or chasing

Now, the trick is to break the bad habits I fell into before. And I believe it has nothing to do with sex, it's more about letting go of this fear I've been grasping.

Edited January 30, 2015 by venusishername

[lil_missy]

Venus, Your last post is the most contradicting post yet

 

You say your going to do A, then you practice B then you preach C

 

It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever

[venusishername]

Venus, Your last post is the most contradicting post yet

You say your going to do A, then you practice B then you preach C

It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever

 

 

Ummm, ok.

Well, it makes perfect sense to me. And that's what counts, right?

I PROMISE!!! I won't be back here in two weeks complaining if R drops off the face of the planet, or getting stressed out because I haven't heard from him in a few days. I'm pretty confident I've got a good handle on what I'm doing right now. I may look back and think, 'wow, I was being totally self-destructive and stupid' but ya know? I don't think so.

It's not sex. I don't think it's because I'm chasing men. I don't think it's because I scare them off, or I'm a doormat and have low standards. Quite the opposite, actually.

It's been safer for me to go about things in a certain way and I've been picking the wrong guys (idoltree calls the 'avoiders') and rejecting the ones who are probably good for me and actually available and ready for a real relationship.

Early sex wouldn't change that, neither would me agreeing to meet them on 'short' notice.

I GET it that it's about boundaries, not necessarily rules.

Edited January 30, 2015 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Oh, Venus. Oh no.

 

Ummm, ok.

Well, it makes perfect sense to me. And that's what counts, right?

 

No, because all of your actions and dating behaviors have made "perfect sense" to you this entire time. I don't know this guy and I won't pretend that he's wrong for you based on what little you've said. Maybe he's perfect. But your certainty that it's different this time, you really know him, and the LEAVE ME ALONE MOM I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING is exactly the same thing you've done with every guy before him. It doesn't sound like you've learned anything at all.

Edited January 31, 2015 by chimpanA-2-chimpanZ

[Leigh 87]

Venus,

 

You are very self aware more than posters give you credit for.

 

You sound lovely by the way.

 

I used to do exactly as you do up until recently! I would not HOUND a guy, I wouldn't blow up his phone, but I would still make myself too interested and available...

 

It is the guys job after the first date to absolutely 100% text you after the date; say he had a good time. You're job is to respond " thanks, me too!".

 

Then you wait for the guy to suggest another time. That is all. Don't say " oh I cant but what about ____ such a day. ESPECIALLY don't text him AFTER you have finished with your friends, suggesting to meet up AFTER! It doesn't make you look "psycho" or "crazy", bit it is wayyyyy too available.

 

Let the guys take the lead 100% in the early stages! IF they are into you, which no offence, these guys don't seem to be (but they like you well enough to want sex and company), then THEY will initiate contact to set up the first few dates.

 

Wait until they show regular, keen interest before EVER saying " well I can't hang today, but hey, maybe after I am finished with my friends!"

 

You are doing what most women do.

 

Most women are like you lol.

 

I am actively changing the way I interact with the men I date too so I am sort of in the same boat as you.

 

The good news is - we WANT to change... We realise that you don't have to act like a total nut job in order to perturb a man - it is the little things that add up and scare a guy off.

[venusishername]

Oh, Venus. Oh no.

No, because all of your actions and dating behaviors have made "perfect sense" to you this entire time. I don't know this guy and I won't pretend that he's wrong for you based on what little you've said. Maybe he's perfect. But your certainty that it's different this time, you really know him, and the LEAVE ME ALONE MOM I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING is exactly the same thing you've done with every guy before him. It doesn't sound like you've learned anything at all.

 

I didn't say that it's different this time and that I really know him.

I'm just not freaking out about it.

I've learned A LOT and I REALLY appreciate all the great advice and insight I've received here.

I think I have learned a lot of tools and things I need to really work on.

 

I think the main thing I'm taking away from these recent experiences is that I'm picking and drawn like a magnet to the wrong type, or to those who trigger some fuse in me that sparks off this 'addiction' or something, like I'm chasing a feeling, like a high. (The book talks about this). I DEFINITELY have some issues with trust and being attracted to unhealthy relationship ideals. I tend to push the good ones away; the ones who are available and stable, and secure.

 

Just from what I've seen so far with R, it appears that his goal is something more than just a fling. Despite what little I've written about it, I can tell that he is being sincere and considerate... and I'd like to trust that he's not out to play me or make a conquest. After last night, I thought about it throughout the day of course, and wanted to thank him for the nice time we spent, but didn't. I got caught up with family stuff (which I mentioned to him I'd be doing). It was nice to see that he texted asking me how I'm doing, how was my day today. And it was then that I thanked him, and said I had a good time, he did too, etc.

I don't feel that nagging obsession and insecurity. I think I've been feeling 'iffy' about it because I'm afraid to be open to someone who is showing that they are open to me. Again, I'm not saying I KNOW HIM AND THIS IS DIFFERENT. It's just a feeling I get. He doesn't trigger that 'fuse'. And that 'fuse' has burned me out and got me nowhere in my past.

It's been much easier to chase that 'sick' addiction of well, chasing, getting obsessive, the anxiety, the neediness, and trying desperately to fill that void and get the 'fix'. Like the other night, for example, when I texted him that I thought I'd hear back... that's my go-to type of old crutch. When I saw him last night, he actually mentioned it.. he said he was sorry, he was under the impression that I was busy, he would've liked to see me, but if I wanted to see him, I can always reach out. (I know that doesn't mean a whole lot, but the point is, he was understanding. It didn't make him run away.)

 

This happened before to me a couple times in the past year or so, I ran away from men who were probably really good for me, because they were interested and available, stable, secure, and sincere about being with me, and I regret it!!

One guy I dated last year was a gem. I got cold feet because he was really interested and super clear that he was available and wanted a relationship with me. I remember once I cried because something hit a nerve related to my past with my ex, (long story).. and I had a 'moment' of insecurity was and feeling afraid that he left me somewhere in a crowd; we were at a huge arena concert. He was so reassuring to me, and wasn't put off by my tears... he held me and told me he would never walk out on me like that, never to worry. After that night I ran away from him. I told him I couldn't see him anymore and I wasn't ready and he was moving too fast for me. I regret it to this day.

I'm not saying this is the case now. But it could be. And I don't want to keep making the same mistakes. Now is the perfect time to change those habits and take a long hard look at myself.

I had a talk with a female family member tonight about this, and she pointed this out to me. This is the issue. There's been no shortage of men who've been interested. There's nothing wrong with me. It's not because I had sex before the fifth date or because I'm too available, or because I'm some bimbo with no boundaries and no opinions and no expectations of how I deserve to be treated and respected.

I don't feel I did anything wrong by seeing him last night and sleeping with him. I made a conscious choice, and I'm confident I can handle this. I'm not going to regret it or second guess my actions. I don't have to.

I've said it before.. I just don't feel comfortable dating more than one man at a time.. particularly if sex becomes involved. Whether or not people agree with me there, I'm sorry... if I'm seeing someone for more than two or three dates, I don't see other men. That's just how it is and is my personal preference.

I would like to let this develop as it will, if it does... I will learn more in due time whether it's compatible. I just don't want to run from it. I'm not going to chase it either. Funny thing is that I've noticed... when it's coming from a place of security and stability, and healthy expectations, there's no reason to be anxious, obsessive, and feel disappointed. So far, I've been keeping R at an arm's length and he can tell...that goes back to my fear of getting close. The fear becomes apparent only when it's a possibility. That's how I'm feeling today. It's been my MO to run when that happens. It's like I'm running from exactly what I want, because I'm scared.

That's why it's easier for me to 'chase' and 'obsess', rather than feeling so vulnerable and open and let it in. It's a defense mechanism, I think... makes me feel more in control and 'safe', like idoltree pointed out earlier.

Also, getting that call about my ex yesterday reminded me of these things.

 

This is what I've learned. I think that's a good start for now.

Edited January 31, 2015 by venusishername

[BluEyeL]

Obviously in your case you can't multidate because you sleep with the guys too soon and yeah, once you sleep with one is yucky to date others. Multidating is just going out and getting to know people as people, not getting physical.

 

In general, it is very true that you didn't change a iota from your behavior. Nevertheless, you could come across a guy who will stay. But you didn't change absolutely anything, you're falling into the EXACT SAME IDENTICAL patterns and behavior as in the beginning of this thread. In any case, I stopped giving advice here because it is futile as evidenced by your actions. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best and hope that despite your patterns, you find a great guy for a long term relationship that is also fulfilling for you.

[Eighty_nine]

It's just totally baffling to me why some women (and men) can't wait a bit for sex. There are so many benefits to waiting and no rewards for early sex aside from instant gratification. For me third date sex would basically mean sex with a stranger and that is so unappealing.

[sagamore]

Honestly, everyone's different. Every single substantive relationship I ever had, including with my now husband, started with sex on the first date.

 

In my opinion, Venus' issue isn't rushing sex; it's dating the wrong people, getting attached too fast and then appearing too available. To the extent that sex makes Venus get attached and then feel insecure, I agree she should wait. But I'm not a fan of prescribed sexual rules for everyone.

[venusishername]

It's just totally baffling to me why some women (and men) can't wait a bit for sex. There are so many benefits to waiting and no rewards for early sex aside from instant gratification. For me third date sex would basically mean sex with a stranger and that is so unappealing.

 

Why can't we wait a bit? Well, Lissvarna, things happen! Please no judgment here. Everyone is different with their opinions on sex. My parents slept together the first night they met. They were married for over 20 years. She's the most conservative goody two shoes prudish woman I know. She can't even be in the same room as a woman breastfeeding!!

My two long term relationships were sex within the first few dates. To each their own.

Obviously I separate love and sex. I feel like a man sometimes when it comes to my sex drive. I can separate the emotion from the act (most of the time).

 

Obviously in your case you can't multidate because you sleep with the guys too soon and yeah, once you sleep with one is yucky to date others. Multidating is just going out and getting to know people as people, not getting physical.

UGH.... the judgment again. Maybe this is the kiss of death, but this is your opinion and not fact.

In general, it is very true that you didn't change a iota from your behavior. Nevertheless, you could come across a guy who will stay. But you didn't change absolutely anything, you're falling into the EXACT SAME IDENTICAL patterns and behavior as in the beginning of this thread. In any case, I stopped giving advice here because it is futile as evidenced by your actions. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best and hope that despite your patterns, you find a great guy for a long term relationship that is also fulfilling for you.

Well... thank you.

My same behavior/patterns being...? Sex?

I don't feel that I'm chasing, being insecure, and throwing myself at a man (R in this case).

The one exception being that I texted him that night that I thought I'd hear back. I won't do that again, but his response was extremely reassuring. It didn't make him run, like it would have done to other men. It seemed to have the opposite effect.

Actually, I feel more secure than I have in a very long time. I think it's a combo of me self-improving and writing here, and taking in the great advice, and also coming across a man who so far appears to be more fit to what I am looking for/need.

 

In my opinion, Venus' issue isn't rushing sex; it's dating the wrong people, getting attached too fast and then appearing too available. To the extent that sex makes Venus get attached and then feel insecure, I agree she should wait. But I'm not a fan of prescribed sexual rules for everyone.

Thank you. I agree with you 100%. Rushing sex is not my issue!!! I REALLY TRULY think that it's just been the wrong guys I've been attracted to. I've been going for the bad boys and the unavailable men who are my physical type that set off that hot fuse in me that makes me go a little crazy inside...

 

I am getting to know R and it's going surprisingly well so far. I may have had the wrong impression of him I think. He's been contacting me every day since our last date Thursday. I saw him yesterday too.

He's been just thoughtful, polite and very affectionate. I don't feel worried or anxious. I'm not wondering how he feels about me or what he wants.

Yes, it's probably very true that he enjoys sex and my company, and you know, so do I! That puts us in the exact same boat. There's no imbalance of control and he doesn't have me in the palm of his hand or vice versa. That's where it is right now anyway...sex and company, two adults in their thirties getting to know. It really doesn't appear to me that he wants just a casual thing. He wouldn't be contacting me daily. I could be wrong... we will see.

Valentine's Day is coming. I think there's a very good chance I will have a date.

Again, for some reason I don't feel the need to freak out and obsess and get anxious (which I think is my old pattern). Maybe it's that I'm ready now, maybe I've met a good guy finally, one who's 'available' and looking for what I'm looking for. I think it has potential.

Edited February 2, 2015 by venusishername

[idoltree]

Stay in the moment, Venus.

 

You are starting to cross over into "What does he want?", "What does he think?", and "maybe I'll have a date for Valentine's day." intrusive thoughts.

 

Don't do it. Stay in the moment, don't allow yourself to get into your head in your free time and fantasize about the future because that leads to over-investing in what you see as someone's potential, which you guess about. You don't know him yet.

 

I'm seeing a lot of speculating on how he's nice and you may have misjudged him, etc. Stop it stop it stop it stop it. You don't know him yet.

 

TL;DR You don't know him yet.

Edited February 2, 2015 by idoltree

[venusishername]

TL;DR You don't know him yet.

 

What is TL;DR?? Is this a LS acronym or a typo?

I'm doing my best but I admit... after the last two times we spent together this past week... it's hard not to let my mind wander a little bit.

I don't want to be TOO detached... I'd like to be open to this.

Most importantly I'd like to be open to finding a REAL relationship with someone who wants what I do in the long term.

I don't want to be so aloof and detached that I push it away, or not be receptive to it.

BUT, I think I have a good handle on the old habits/actions that I need to break.

No more feeling insecure. I don't want to play games either, or play hard to get. Boundaries, not games.. I know that's the point. Besides, I don't have to feel insecure. After reading the 'Attached' book, I see that some men fuel that insecurity and some nurture it and help an insecure person to feel more secure, just by coming from a secure and available place themselves. That's why I'm pretty damn certain that I've been chasing the wrong men all along and going after an unhealthy type of chemistry and idealization.

I am doing my best to remain at an arm's length now. I'm feeling much more grounded than before, though.

 

 

In any case, I am looking forward to getting to know him more.

So far it does seem (not speculation, just the little things that are adding up so far) that he's interested in actually pursuing a romantic relationship (meaning not just sexual) which is of course what I want too. Time will tell though. I'd like to be optimistic but remain grounded too

I remember all the advice many of you kept drilling into my head over and over about 'the rules' and not appearing too available or chasing, or initiating, or waiting, demanding to know where I stand, etc.

As it is now, we are just casually dating and getting to know each other. Maybe it's me and the sex bonding release of hormones, but being that he's been so affectionate and physically demonstrative... is substantially more than I've experienced with other men I've dated, and it just feels really nice. It's been nice also that it's been a once or twice a day contact on his part all week now, even if just to say hello, how did such and such go with your family, or are you feeling better, etc. I appreciate those small gestures.

Edited February 3, 2015 by venusishername

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

You don't know TL;DR? I thought you were 30, not 300. Seriously though, it means "too long; didn't read". Use it as a summary line for a long post or story. The military equivalent is BLUF (or BLOT).

 

It sounds like you're doing well, and this:

 

Most importantly I'd like to be open to finding a REAL relationship with someone who wants what I do in the long term.

 

is, as you say, most important. So if it looks like this guy doesn't have vaguely similar long-term plans, detach and move on before you get hung up trying to shoehorn a reluctant guy into your happily ever after mold. That can be difficult, especially when you really like someone, but it's critical. I would also agree that it's unwise to expect a big date for Valentine's Day at this point. Just try not to think about it too much and focus on your own needs.

[venusishername]

You don't know TL;DR? I thought you were 30, not 300. Seriously though, it means "too long; didn't read". Use it as a summary line for a long post or story. The military equivalent is BLUF (or BLOT).

 

I think the military acronym makes far more sense. Bottom line up front! Learn something new every day. LSNED!

 

 

Anyway, yes, I'm doing pretty well considering in the past I'd be freaking out about a new prospect and why haven't I heard from him in one whole day? is he still looking online? Does he like me? what's he thinking, what does he want, etc. I feel like I've made good progress, even if some of you said I haven't changed any behaviors! It's not the behaviors that's the problem, it's my internal demons and insecurities that cause me to maybe act in an insecure way.

I remind myself that I was the one going into it insisting that it was only casual... and for now it still is. Just because we slept together shouldn't change too much of the pace or my expectations. IF this continues, then of course that expectation would change. But for now, it still is what it is, still early.

I DO want a long term committed relationship- I don't want a boyfriend... I want a husband. I don't want to keep casually dating. But I'm not sure how to find what I want WITHOUT being casual about it at first. (I am not asking for advice here)!!

 

In any case, one thing I notice that is different this time around is that I no longer feel that nagging insecurity and need to base my happiness or mood on what someone else thinks about me (in dating and otherwise). Huge shift. Probably the most significant shift from my 20s into my 30s.

 

So for example, next time I hear from him, I don't 'need' to be available at his request of course, if I'm busy or not up for it, fine.. I won't offer an alternative time.

Also, since I'm not about playing games or being hard to get anymore, I think it's perfectly acceptable if I feel like it to contact him and just say hello if I'm so inclined. There doesn't have to be any strings tied to it. It should really be just as simple as you are thinking about that person and want to let them know. Not, 'should I text him? Will he think I'm desperate? Why doesn't he contact me first?' I'm too old for that **** anymore. DONE!!

I must say though, I think it's a good sign so far that he's been pursuing me for over a month now.. he has yet to drop the ball. He kept asking me out, and I said no many times, I even ignored him once or twice.. he still persisted.

Some very important things I've learned recently:

I know that if I'm not available that day, or next day, whatever... if a guy is really interested he won't mind waiting until I am.

It doesn't matter you sleep with him on the first or fiftieth date. If a guy likes you and likes you more and more with time, sex won't make him stay or go. Period.

Guys who are serious about you never let the connection drop; they won't leave the ball in your court. If it stays there too long, they will walk over and pick it up!

Also, in the right situation, there will never be a need to wonder where you stand or where it's headed. If you need to ask, there's something off, because either he will be sure to TELL you or you'll just know!!

 

 

Maybe it's a matter of me shifting my view, or meeting a man who seems to be more available than the ones before, or a combination of both. But I feel much more at ease than I have before.

That's my update

Edited February 3, 2015 by venusishername

[BluEyeL]

Good for you. When do you see him again?

 

And btw, about sleeping with the guys too soon, I meant that because you sleep with them at the 3-4 th date you can't multidate. You sleep with them too soon to be able to multidate. Multidating can be done when you see people without getting physical, but because you do get physical, you can't multidate.

 

I agree when you have sex will not keep them or make them leave. I don't like to have sex before having strong emotional connection but that's ok, not everyone should do that.

 

What's best about this guy is that you said no several times and he still didn't go away so there is hope.

[venusishername]

Good for you. When do you see him again?

 

And btw, about sleeping with the guys too soon, I meant that because you sleep with them at the 3-4 th date you can't multidate. You sleep with them too soon to be able to multidate. Multidating can be done when you see people without getting physical, but because you do get physical, you can't multidate.

 

I agree when you have sex will not keep them or make them leave. I don't like to have sex before having strong emotional connection but that's ok, not everyone should do that.

 

What's best about this guy is that you said no several times and he still didn't go away so there is hope.

 

 

Thanks. I don't know when I'll see him again, we didn't talk about that yesterday (morning). I'm sure it won't be too long though!

He's been contacting me at least every other day or so for the past month now, so I think it's fair to guess that I'll be hearing from him very soon. I look forward to it.

I have to say, it was nice to just to wake up at his place and he got ready for work, I have to be in an hour after he does...he walked me out, he gave me a kiss and said 'have a good day'. That was it. So simple. No weirdness ... I didn't feel like the need to 'cling' to him and wonder 'what did he MEAN when he said XYZ??' Like I said I'm not sure if it's my change in attitude or the fact that he's just treating me in a way that doesn't make me wonder ! Imagine that.

I think I've been drawn to men who fuel my insecurities rather than calm them. He's done a few things so far, just little things.. that made me feel more at ease than I would normally. Just something I am conscious of.

[Eighty_nine]

It doesn't matter you sleep with him on the first or fiftieth date. If a guy likes you and likes you more and more with time, sex won't make him stay or go. Period.

 

Completely disagree. It's not a hard and fast rule. But men are hunters by nature. When they get what they're "hunting" for early on, EVEN MEN WHO ARE RELATIONSHIP-MINDED can and often lose interest. Sometimes they don't even really understand why! I've had multiple guy friends express this to me and it's happened to myself & multiple girlfriends. I'm actually surprised at the number of people who disagree with this here. I didn't start to understand til i went through a bad breakup and read a bunch of books related to dating.

 

But, of course it's not a hard and fast rule. I'm sure plenty of times it's not the case. I prefer the better-safe-than-sorry plan so I don't go to a guys house before at least a few solid dates. Hopefully in this case, the guy you're seeing isn't like that. His continual contact is a good sign.

[Eighty_nine]

Also, since I'm not about playing games or being hard to get anymore, I think it's perfectly acceptable if I feel like it to contact him and just say hello if I'm so inclined. There doesn't have to be any strings tied to it. It should really be just as simple as you are thinking about that person and want to let them know. Not, 'should I text him? Will he think I'm desperate? Why doesn't he contact me first?' I'm too old for that **** anymore. DONE!!

 

 

Again on the "hunter" note... I'd let him contact you more often than not. He's shown you that he will, so give him the opportunity. I don't really think it's about games, it's just about men enjoying the pursuit of women. It's the biological nature of many men.

 

Also- and I did this with my bf in the beginning when I was still really insecure about it- normally he contacted me but I'd sometimes get so worried if I went most of the day without hearing from him. So I'd text him and always get a sweet response, and my anxiety would subside. But I learned that's actually unhealthy- I was texting him to get a response that would make me feel better, instead of allowing myself to feel uncomfortable for a little bit, I just tried to rid myself of the feelings. I'd avoid that. Text if you really just want to say hi, but don't if it's related to feeling anxious. Allowing anxiety in instead of resisting it is much better for reducing those anxious feelings.

[venusishername]

Again on the "hunter" note... I'd let him contact you more often than not. He's shown you that he will, so give him the opportunity. I don't really think it's about games, it's just about men enjoying the pursuit of women. It's the biological nature of many men.

 

 

I understand what you mean and this is generally true! But on your 'hunter' note, I think that some men want to hunt for more than sex Some of them will get the sex and then go on this pursuit to win more than that. So, that's why I say sex doesn't make or break it... if a guy is really into you, if he gets sex that doesn't mean he will stop hunting

Case in point were my only two long term relationships: I kept this emotional distance even after sex and I think it drove them crazy!! My last bf went on a real pursuit to romance me and win my heart (long after sex happened). It worked!

 

Also- and I did this with my bf in the beginning when I was still really insecure about it- normally he contacted me but I'd sometimes get so worried if I went most of the day without hearing from him. So I'd text him and always get a sweet response, and my anxiety would subside. But I learned that's actually unhealthy- I was texting him to get a response that would make me feel better, instead of allowing myself to feel uncomfortable for a little bit, I just tried to rid myself of the feelings. I'd avoid that. Text if you really just want to say hi, but don't if it's related to feeling anxious. Allowing anxiety in instead of resisting it is much better for reducing those anxious feelings.

Thanks for sharing. That is helpful, I like that!

I felt like that time last week I texted him out of insecurity.. when I said I thought I'd hear back from you. His response was kind and reassuring, he didn't seem to be put off by it. Like I said, I think some people fuel the anxiety and insecurity and others seem to quell it. Obviously we want to feel more at ease about having those feelings of vulnerability, and it's good to be reassured that's it's ok to feel that way.

Edited February 3, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

I understand what you mean and this is generally true! But on your 'hunter' note, I think that some men want to hunt for more than sex Some of them will get the sex and then go on this pursuit to win more than that. So, that's why I say sex doesn't make or break it... if a guy is really into you, if he gets sex that doesn't mean he will stop hunting

Case in point were my only two long term relationships: I kept this emotional distance even after sex and I think it drove them crazy!! My last bf went on a real pursuit to romance me and win my heart (long after sex happened). It worked!

 

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, (and I know it won't change your opinion) but I really want this point to be understood (not just by you but in general, because I feel like it's super helpful to women).... I've known multiple instances of this, but I'll share about one guy friend in particular. He wants a relationship, truly (and has had a couple serious ones). He's good looking, tall, makes very decent money. He's had a lot of sexual partners. One of his major struggles is when he sleeps with women early on, EVEN those he's interested in, EVEN though he does want a relationship, his interest inadvertently starts to diminish. Not immediately... but he starts to feel a slow fade of feelings. He vents to me about this and has said he feels like he's lost a lot of good potential-relationships because attraction diminished for him after early sex. He's dating someone now and specifically making sure they're not alone together because he likes her and doesn't want this to happen. (Also, he's always a bit flirtatious with me and our friendship is still very much in tact likely because I declined his attempts at sex, haha).

 

He may be a more "extreme" case. And it's not a hard and fast rule... as you pointed out, relationships do come from early-on sex. But it's definitely something to keep in mind.

Edited February 3, 2015 by lissvarna

[losangelena]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really want this point to be understood (not just by you but in general, because I feel like it's super helpful to women).... I've known multiple instances of this, but I'll share about one guy friend in general. He wants a relationship, truly, but has trouble. He's good looking, tall, makes very decent money. He's had a lot of sexual partners. One of his major struggles is when he sleeps with women early on, EVEN those he's interested in, EVEN though he does want a relationship, his interest inadvertently starts to diminish. Not immediately... but he starts to feel a slow fade of feelings. He vents to me about this. He's dating someone now and specifically making sure they're not alone together because he likes her and doesn't want this to happen. (Also, he's always a bit flirtatious with me and our friendship is still very much in tact likely because I declined his attempts at sex, haha).

 

He may be a more "extreme" case. And it's not a hard and fast rule... as you pointed out, relationships do come from early-on sex. But it's definitely something to keep in mind.

 

Not to thread-jack or anything, but if your friend has this problem, he needs to make sure he's not having sex too early then, either (which it seems, from what you've written, he's trying to do, this time at least).

 

I've been in situations before where sex was too soon and an otherwise interested guy is like, "oh, never mind." I think that's sh*tty, though. The guy even admitted it, and after the fact I'm like, then why were you all into it beforehand? Why did you collectively put us in this situation? Why are you now blaming me?

 

So often it's *women* who are told to be careful; that men change their minds after sex, etc. But if that's true, then it's *guys* who need to pump the breaks beforehand, as well. It shouldn't be all the woman's responsibility to ensure that man sticks around. It's not as if a man's penis and brain can't dialogue. If the brain knows that it will lose interest after early sex, then brain needs to tell penis to hold on for a day/week/month, etc. Yeah, a lot of them will say, "well, I got caught up in the moment," but why can't a woman get caught up in the moment? Why does she have to be the one to say, "whoa tiger?" That's an unfair aspect of dating, however realistic it may be.

 

Sorry, again, don't mean to thread-jack. I think it can go either way. My parents were engaged a week after meeting (and you can bet sex was involved), and stayed together until my dad died. I was so unsure of whether or not my BF was going to stick around after date-three sex, but he did. Goes to show—early sex does not always sink the boat. And if it will, then maybe that's not a guy you want to be with, anyway.

[Eighty_nine]

^its not only a women's role to prevent that stuff. Not at all. It's just something we can do to protect ourselves from that kind of situation.

 

I'm also a little different because while I have a high sexual appetite for regular partners, sleeping wth people I don't really know just turns me off for whatever reason. I know not everyone's like that. So it's an easier situation for me to avoid. Like I said, not a hard and fast rule, but something to consider.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Yeah, lissvarna, your friend has serious issues with female sexuality. If he's less attracted to women after having sex it's probably because they seem slightly less pure or he feels like the chase is over and he's "won". Both attitudes are pretty unhealthy. He needs to stop blaming women for his hang-ups.

 

Let R prove himself. Don't settle for anything less than a man who takes you out, treats you like a lady, and makes it clear he wants to commit.

[BluEyeL]

Yes, what's sad is that the double standard is alive and well. Many men will sleep with you and then judge you for it. Also, many men will care about your number. Of course not all, but there are some. It's not fair.

[venusishername]

Yeah, lissvarna, your friend has serious issues with female sexuality. If he's less attracted to women after having sex it's probably because they seem slightly less pure or he feels like the chase is over and he's "won". Both attitudes are pretty unhealthy. He needs to stop blaming women for his hang-ups.

 

Let R prove himself. Don't settle for anything less than a man who takes you out, treats you like a lady, and makes it clear he wants to commit.

 

I agree with you, Chimp as far as the hang ups after sex. I've never heard of that happening before.

 

ANYWAY, yes to what you said about R. Yesterday I started to feel that little 'itch' of insecurity flare up. But then I reminded myself to chill out, don't stress, don't worry about what he's thinking, etc. Once sex is on the table, I tend to get a little antsy. I think it's my insecurity coming through. I realize I was the one who made my bed (pun intended) by sleeping with him... I just don't want to be just his good time girl. I guess that's yet to be seen whether that is his intention.

 

OMG you guys....

I just right this second got a text from Maverick (it's morning in my time zone). No ****ing way. It's been a couple weeks. So you don't have to re-read the earlier posts, we met online, talked for over a month total very frequently, went out once, had a great date, he was excited, he wanted to see me again.. BUT he flaked on me a few weekends ago, he apologized the next day, I was short in my response... then he left to fly across the world for work and I never heard any more about it, until fast forward almost three weeks later. I think he must've been traveling since... but I don't know.

I deleted his number soon after that incident but didn't delete the thread, so when he texted I could see the conversation and that identified him! Wow, I really wasn't expecting that. I haven't responded yet.

He just asked how have I been. Clearly there was another person in the picture. I understand... that happened to me before where I had to tell him no, I can't meet you (because I was seeing A). Hmm.

I'm still interested, but not so thrilled and excited after he flaked last time. I guess it wouldn't hurt to respond just hello... I don't have to see him any time soon.

In fact, I probably won't agree to because R is on "standby" as my gf says.

Edited February 4, 2015 by venusishername